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Post by tollwaytroll on Oct 1, 2014 13:43:16 GMT -5
So, on the TV Club review, the reviewer said something about Clara's "Because it's amazing, because I see wonders" ringing more hollow than ever before. This I don't understand. You're telling me that if you had a best friend who took you anywhere in the whole of time and space any time you wanted, you would give it up for a relationship? Because I sure wouldn't!! Plus, even though the show and everyone else seems to have forgotten, I still remember Clara's introduction with her book of travel destinations she wanted to complete (on behalf of her dead mother?).
Is this trite? I just feel like the show (and most reviewers) want me to sympathize more with Danny and I do. not. Like, how could you be upset with someone for not being honest about their time-travelling double life? Would he have even believed it?
Maybe I just buy into the fantasy too much.
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Atomic-Blackadder
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Post by Atomic-Blackadder on Oct 2, 2014 15:16:19 GMT -5
I haven't posted on the A.V. Club Doctor Who reviews for 3 weeks now (due to time differences and sleep differences), but here is where my episode rankings stand so far:
Deep Breath: B- Into The Dalek: A- Robot of Sherwood: B Listen: A (Holy shit, an A) Time Heist: B+ The Caretaker: B
I'm hearing really good things about Kill The Moon, so hopefully another A is on the way.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Oct 5, 2014 13:20:14 GMT -5
Got called sexist at The Old Country for suggesting Clara's hissy fit at the end of 'Kill The Moon' was mostly her being annoyed Capaldi isn't pretending to be her boyfriend any more. Which was nice.
(More than anything, I think the worst aspect of Clara this season is Moffatt putting his man-crush broken heart for Matt Smith into her character. It's like Capaldi is his break-up Doctor.)
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Oct 7, 2014 8:52:12 GMT -5
Got called sexist at The Old Country for suggesting Clara's hissy fit at the end of 'Kill The Moon' was mostly her being annoyed Capaldi isn't pretending to be her boyfriend any more. Which was nice. (More than anything, I think the worst aspect of Clara this season is Moffatt putting his man-crush broken heart for Matt Smith into her character. It's like Capaldi is his break-up Doctor.) I don't think you're a sexist, but I do think you read that scene wrong. If they had played that speech at the of "The Caretaker" or something, I could see where you are coming from. But The Doctor was a real asshat for the bulk of the episode (which don't get me wrong, is an awesome direction for the character) and had pretty thin justifications for the whole thing.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Oct 7, 2014 17:08:02 GMT -5
@super Bowl - I can see that take, of course. But I was nodding all the way through tye 'training wheels' scene, so...
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Post by Mrs David Tennant on Oct 7, 2014 18:39:49 GMT -5
Got called sexist at The Old Country for suggesting Clara's hissy fit at the end of 'Kill The Moon' was mostly her being annoyed Capaldi isn't pretending to be her boyfriend any more. Which was nice. (More than anything, I think the worst aspect of Clara this season is Moffatt putting his man-crush broken heart for Matt Smith into her character. It's like Capaldi is his break-up Doctor.) I have to say, I haven't really seen any sign of either Capaldi pretending to be her boyfriend or her wanting him to. Granted I'm not paying a ton of attention so far this season.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Oct 10, 2014 12:58:29 GMT -5
Got called sexist at The Old Country for suggesting Clara's hissy fit at the end of 'Kill The Moon' was mostly her being annoyed Capaldi isn't pretending to be her boyfriend any more. Which was nice. (More than anything, I think the worst aspect of Clara this season is Moffatt putting his man-crush broken heart for Matt Smith into her character. It's like Capaldi is his break-up Doctor.) I have to say, I haven't really seen any sign of either Capaldi pretending to be her boyfriend or her wanting him to. Granted I'm not paying a ton of attention so far this season. Well... he specifically said to Clara that he's not being that. My point is that a) Clara's not believing him or b) just can't deal with that. Hence the 'hilarious' bit where Capaldi assumed she was dating the teacher who looks like Smith. Part of this is purely down to my dislike of both Clara and the way her timeline is so screwed, to the point where I have no idea how much this version remembers of previous encounters with the Doctor. Add to that the Smith cameo at the start... well. Just annoying me, honestly. So, you not paying attention might not be that big a factor, as I'm trying to and am confused as all buggery!
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Oct 10, 2014 13:20:44 GMT -5
I have to say, I haven't really seen any sign of either Capaldi pretending to be her boyfriend or her wanting him to. Granted I'm not paying a ton of attention so far this season. Well... he specifically said to Clara that he's not being that. My point is that a) Clara's not believing him or b) just can't deal with that. Hence the 'hilarious' bit where Capaldi assumed she was dating the teacher who looks like Smith. Part of this is purely down to my dislike of both Clara and the way her timeline is so screwed, to the point where I have no idea how much this version remembers of previous encounters with the Doctor. Add to that the Smith cameo at the start... well. Just annoying me, honestly. So, you not paying attention might not be that big a factor, as I'm trying to and am confused as all buggery! So, I don't get how any of those things were Clara's problem. If anything they are great examples of this Doctor not being able to deal with it when things aren't as he initially sees them. Clara has some blind hero-worshipping issues in her relationship with the Doctor, but I don't think any of it, at least not this season, has had any romantic, oh-how-I-wish my-cute-boyfriend-would-come-back roots.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Oct 11, 2014 15:33:19 GMT -5
Worst episode of the season, possibly worst of NuWho. Even the jelly-baby bit couldn't redeem it. And really - stop trying to make us care about Clara's Feels. (Have renamed her Anime Barbie at this point.)
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Post by Mrs David Tennant on Oct 11, 2014 17:27:22 GMT -5
Worst episode of the season, possibly worst of NuWho. Even the jelly-baby bit couldn't redeem it. And really - stop trying to make us care about Clara's Feels. (Have renamed her Anime Barbie at this point.) I haven't seen it yet, but I really do feel this whole season has been pretty weak. I'm pretty tired of Clara, never really liked her at all, and I'm ready for the Doctor to have a non-human companion. Maybe a talking cat?!?
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Post by Carade on Oct 11, 2014 17:31:53 GMT -5
Worst episode of the season, possibly worst of NuWho.
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Post by Mrs David Tennant on Oct 11, 2014 17:33:33 GMT -5
Worst episode of the season, possibly worst of NuWho. Nope - it's Fear Her. It's always Fear Her.
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Post by Lemminkainen on Oct 11, 2014 21:47:04 GMT -5
Worst episode of the season, possibly worst of NuWho. Even the jelly-baby bit couldn't redeem it. And really - stop trying to make us care about Clara's Feels. (Have renamed her Anime Barbie at this point.) In contrast, I AM ALL ABOARD THIS HYPE TRAIN. I welcome your elaboration on what you disliked, though.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Oct 12, 2014 4:05:54 GMT -5
Worst episode of the season, possibly worst of NuWho. Even the jelly-baby bit couldn't redeem it. And really - stop trying to make us care about Clara's Feels. (Have renamed her Anime Barbie at this point.) In contrast, I AM ALL ABOARD THIS HYPE TRAIN. I welcome your elaboration on what you disliked, though. The Clara Feels, which dragged the episode down. The odd way that supposedly tense scenes (with an on-screen countdown, for fuck's sake) utterly lacked interest. The gratuitous cameos (comedian Frank Skinner, pop act Foxes). The score, as always. And, on a personal and somewhat pervy note, how this was supposedly a note-perfect 1920's recreation without a single woman wearing stockings.
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Post by Lemminkainen on Oct 12, 2014 10:24:25 GMT -5
I suppose this episode is better for Americans, because I didn't notice either cameo.
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Post by rimjobflashmob on Oct 12, 2014 19:24:43 GMT -5
I suppose this episode is better for Americans, because I didn't notice either cameo. Yeah, I had no idea about those. Still think it's pretty weak though, especially since last week was pretty good. I didn't really understand Clara's breakdown though. The Doctor's been a prick a bunch of times and she never raised a fuss, but now she suddenly cares? It felt like forcing the issue of replacing her as companion, rather than trying to make it organic and true to character. This season is so up and down.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Oct 18, 2014 15:22:40 GMT -5
This week on Super-Special Anime Barbie And Her Grumpy Old Companion... Super-Special Anime Barbie actually gets to be The Doctor and the actual Doctor tells her how super-special she is at it.
Kill me now. Liked the monster, though. Nice tunnel, too.
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Post by Dr Livingstone on Oct 19, 2014 11:07:03 GMT -5
I've really been enjoying this season. (And pretty much all the seasons!)
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Post by Mrs David Tennant on Oct 20, 2014 18:33:08 GMT -5
Well, I thought that was a little boring. I am just not feeling Peter Capaldi as the Doctor, and I never have liked Clara. I've been going back and watching some of the David Tennant and Matt Smith episodes again instead.
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Post by Lemminkainen on Oct 26, 2014 2:13:08 GMT -5
Worst episode of the season Oh, how quickly you tossed out that title.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Oct 26, 2014 6:13:21 GMT -5
Worst episode of the season Oh, how quickly you tossed out that title. So I hear! I might just not watch this week's ep.
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Post by Lemminkainen on Nov 1, 2014 19:56:32 GMT -5
I... I can't tell if I'm happy or angry or both.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Nov 2, 2014 14:01:06 GMT -5
This episode stands or falls on accepting The Doctor would risk everything for someone who betrayed him utterly... so unless you buy the whole Super Spacial Clara bit (which you all know I don't), the plot dies right there. So, I'm not going to talk about that at all. Instead, let's talk about how Moffatt's patting himself on the back with that line about having an idea about the dead that literally nobody in the history of the universe ever had before. An idea Aleister Crowley had in 1913, and published as "The Testament of Magdalen Blair". Oh, and let's also throw in the least interesting Missy reveal possible and More Fucking Cybermen.
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Post by Lemminkainen on Nov 2, 2014 14:55:55 GMT -5
So, I'm not going to talk about that at all. Instead, let's talk about how Moffatt's patting himself on the back with that line about having an idea about the dead that literally nobody in the history of the universe ever had before. Cybermen from cyberspace?
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Nov 2, 2014 15:47:30 GMT -5
So, I'm not going to talk about that at all. Instead, let's talk about how Moffatt's patting himself on the back with that line about having an idea about the dead that literally nobody in the history of the universe ever had before. Cybermen from cyberspace? Consciousness continuing in the body post-mortem. It's right there in the dialogue... (And there's also the Cyber-Pink pun...)
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Nov 5, 2014 11:56:26 GMT -5
This episode stands or falls on accepting The Doctor would risk everything for someone who betrayed him utterly... so unless you buy the whole Super Spacial Clara bit (which you all know I don't), the plot dies right there.
So, I'm not going to talk about that at all. Instead, let's talk about how Moffatt's patting himself on the back with that line about having an idea about the dead that literally nobody in the history of the universe ever had before. An idea Aleister Crowley had in 1913, and published as "The Testament of Magdalen Blair". Oh, and let's also throw in the least interesting Missy reveal possible and More Fucking Cybermen. I have to ask, and I'm not trying to start a nerd fight here, would you have had as much of a problem with that plot point if it had been Amy instead of Clara? Because it seems plausible that they could have gone that way with Amy and Rory instead of what they ended up doing, and I feel like, maybe, there would have been less criticism of it. If anything the critique should be that they did a shitty job at making us buy that Clara gave enough of a shit about Pink to betray The Doctor, not that The Doctor would be able to move past the betrayal.
I will agree that the Missy reveal, while it was always super obvious, was done in the lamest way possible. Just a disappointing lack of dramatic flair for The Master.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Nov 5, 2014 12:30:28 GMT -5
This episode stands or falls on accepting The Doctor would risk everything for someone who betrayed him utterly... so unless you buy the whole Super Spacial Clara bit (which you all know I don't), the plot dies right there.
So, I'm not going to talk about that at all. Instead, let's talk about how Moffatt's patting himself on the back with that line about having an idea about the dead that literally nobody in the history of the universe ever had before. An idea Aleister Crowley had in 1913, and published as "The Testament of Magdalen Blair". Oh, and let's also throw in the least interesting Missy reveal possible and More Fucking Cybermen. I have to ask, and I'm not trying to start a nerd fight here, would you have had as much of a problem with that plot point if it had been Amy instead of Clara? Because it seems plausible that they could have gone that way with Amy and Rory instead of what they ended up doing, and I feel like, maybe, there would have been less criticism of it. If anything the critique should be that they did a shitty job at making us buy that Clara gave enough of a shit about Pink to betray The Doctor, not that The Doctor would be able to move past the betrayal.
I will agree that the Missy reveal, while it was always super obvious, was done in the lamest way possible. Just a disappointing lack of dramatic flair for The Master.
Less so - though Amy had her own problems (and shares Moffatt's problematic characterisation of women), she was never shown as The Most Specialest And Important Companion Of All Companions. It's that which is the core of my Clara issue. She gets forgiven everything and rewarded because we're told she's amazing and significant... but never really shown it. It's subjective as hell, but we're talking fandom here so...
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Nov 5, 2014 13:01:15 GMT -5
I have to ask, and I'm not trying to start a nerd fight here, would you have had as much of a problem with that plot point if it had been Amy instead of Clara? Because it seems plausible that they could have gone that way with Amy and Rory instead of what they ended up doing, and I feel like, maybe, there would have been less criticism of it. If anything the critique should be that they did a shitty job at making us buy that Clara gave enough of a shit about Pink to betray The Doctor, not that The Doctor would be able to move past the betrayal.
I will agree that the Missy reveal, while it was always super obvious, was done in the lamest way possible. Just a disappointing lack of dramatic flair for The Master.
Less so - though Amy had her own problems (and shares Moffatt's problematic characterisation of women), she was never shown as The Most Specialest And Important Companion Of All Companions. It's that which is the core of my Clara issue. She gets forgiven everything and rewarded because we're told she's amazing and significant... but never really shown it. It's subjective as hell, but we're talking fandom here so... Oh for sure, I just thought it was worth clarifying that this is an issue with a character, not necessarily that plot point. The episode itself was fine, but a little bit ridiculous, in the same way that most Who finales are fine but a little bit ridiculous.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Nov 8, 2014 16:29:21 GMT -5
I was shouting OH FUCK OFF at the screen before the credits even rolled, and it did not significantly improve from there.
One sweet moment, over-played. One sharp idea, squandered. And then, the Xmas teaser. Just awful.
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Post by π huss π on Nov 8, 2014 18:28:47 GMT -5
Ha HA, I was all "I know that voice, whose voice is that... NICK FROST."
Also not ashamed to admit it, cried like a baby at Kate Stewart's rescuer.
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