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Post by Bizarre Gardening Accident on Nov 26, 2014 16:12:37 GMT -5
His behaviour made no sense - if he didn't get the chance to knock her out and Rick's attempt failed but any of them made it out alive, he gets shot. And both of those things would be by far the most likely outcome. I struggle with house-of-cards plotting like this in TV shows.
Rick and his gang have been frighteningly competent this entire season, until tonight when they start acting like a bunch of morons. Don't split up when you don't know the terrain. Don't trust the guy who works for the evil empire.
I really hope Eugene is done, too. I'm glad his rather silly and unbelievable storyline seems to have come to an end, and it would be fun to see him get his head smashed to bits.
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Post by pairesta on Dec 1, 2014 8:07:52 GMT -5
So, yeah. Ended badly.
I see Zack's points in his review, but I still liked the episode overall. Just a bunch of little missteps that led to a bigger tragedy. Certainly it's not enough to undermine the rather strong half season that preceded it. Really the only thing I don't like right now is the continued survival of Father Sgt. Carver.
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Post by nowimnothing on Dec 1, 2014 10:05:36 GMT -5
I still don't understand the power dynamics of the hospital. So Dawn took out the former leader who was too weak or something but then allowed some bad apples free reign in order to keep some control. Yet there are some bad apples and good guys who both want to attempt a coup?
But other than that, this season has really been a huge improvement in quality. I called it when Beth stepped up that she would stab Dawn, but I thought she would go for the jugular and all hell would break loose. Too bad that she ends on a note of failure just when she was starting to turn into a badass (feeding the rapist to the zombie and pushing elevator guy.)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 12:44:50 GMT -5
I'm enjoying angry Rick: Actually, Rick is by far my favorite character. As far as this season goes, I have to say that even with the major improvements over last year I'm still watching it for laughs. The whole scene where Father Sgt Carver runs away and first finds the bible and then poor tainted Bob's foot made me laugh and laugh - he's not really selling me on his existential/religious crisis. It's pretty silly. But I was genuinely surprised about Beth, I think because it happened so quickly.
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Pear
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Post by Pear on Dec 1, 2014 14:58:33 GMT -5
I don't know...I didn't really see much improvement this year. The characters are still dull and uninteresting, as are the storylines, and the hospital stuff dragged because I didn't care one bit about those people. They were never characters; they were plot points. I'm happy about the fact that Terminus was finished after three episodes, but everything that came after was boring. I'm enjoying Rick more, at least.
Biggest laugh of the season: Maggie suddenly remembering she had a sister.
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Post by 🔪 silly buns on Dec 1, 2014 15:44:27 GMT -5
Yeah. I was confused, for a second, when Michonne made a point of telling Maggie about Beth.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Dec 1, 2014 21:17:35 GMT -5
Maggie having literally nothing to do with the Beth story strikes me as the biggest missed point of this season. Not that the characters needed to meet this season, but due to the way the groups manouevre she is unable to express any opinion about it until the very last episode.
So basically in the entire year of 2014 I think Maggie has only mentioned her sister once or twice.
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Post by MrsLangdonAlger on Dec 1, 2014 22:07:26 GMT -5
I gotta say, regardless of how Maggie thought (or didn't think) of her sister for the last bit of time, I wass very effected by her death. But that might just be me becaust Beth was my favorite character.
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Post by nowimnothing on Dec 2, 2014 11:44:32 GMT -5
It kind of pissed me off, because we had some great character development from Beth. She went from the singing girl in the prison to learning to kill with Darryl to holding her own in the hospital. Then we get to her big scene where she unapologetically takes a stand and she just stabs a lady in the shoulder. Dawn even has a look like "ohhh sorry, I guess that was an overreaction to this little girl with tiny scissors who was no real threat."
Killing the bad cops were small moments of triumph for Beth, this did not even feel like that, much less her defining moment.
Maybe in keeping with the bleakness of the show, this was intentional, but I don't really think so.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Dec 2, 2014 13:10:52 GMT -5
nowimnothing I pegged basically either Beth or Carol as the character to die in this episode basically for precisely the reason you mention: Beth had finally come into her own as a character (and Carol also had a strong focus in the last eight episodes.) Current showrunner Scott Gimple gave Hershel a spotlight right before he was killed off in season four; and in general Walking Dead as a series is all about ripping away anyone we care about into the merciless maws of death.
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Post by Bizarre Gardening Accident on Dec 2, 2014 13:51:57 GMT -5
I've just been reading the AVC comments, and someone put into words what I've been sort of struggling with. But I don't want to go too overboard because this season has been fun. They said, strip out the genre conceit (in this case, zombies) and you're left with nothing - although I'd say, it's basically a soap opera.
They compared it to "Revolution", but I was really sad when that show got cancelled in a way I won't be when TWD finally goes off the air. It was trying to do *something* - the characters had plans and the plot moved and resolution was reached and new conflict sprung up, and they'd absolutely learned from a weak first season (that killed the show, in the end)|. I feel, a little, that TWD doesn't have enough of that - like Tolstoy said 'All great literature is one of two stories; a man goes on a journey or a stranger comes to town.' He didn't say "also, the third sort of great literature is characters just sitting around with their thumb up their ass in rural Georgia".
I'm exaggerating, a bit. But the show needs to move, to have something for the characters to work towards, to have some sense that there's a resolution to their story. As it is, TWD - show and comic - is just like an endless run through the middle chapters of a book, and certainly lots of fun things happen in those chapters, but some of the fun is trying to figure out how it'll end.
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Post by pairesta on Dec 2, 2014 14:02:08 GMT -5
I've just been reading the AVC comments, and someone put into words what I've been sort of struggling with. But I don't want to go too overboard because this season has been fun. They said, strip out the genre conceit (in this case, zombies) and you're left with nothing - although I'd say, it's basically a soap opera. They compared it to "Revolution", but I was really sad when that show got cancelled in a way I won't be when TWD finally goes off the air. It was trying to do *something* - the characters had plans and the plot moved and resolution was reached and new conflict sprung up, and they'd absolutely learned from a weak first season (that killed the show, in the end)|. I feel, a little, that TWD doesn't have enough of that - like Tolstoy said 'All great literature is one of two stories; a man goes on a journey or a stranger comes to town.' He didn't say "also, the third sort of great literature is characters just sitting around with their thumb up their ass in rural Georgia". I'm exaggerating, a bit. But the show needs to move, to have something for the characters to work towards, to have some sense that there's a resolution to their story. As it is, TWD - show and comic - is just like an endless run through the middle chapters of a book, and certainly lots of fun things happen in those chapters, but some of the fun is trying to figure out how it'll end. I think they are doing that to an extent. One thing I've noticed that I really like about this past season is how backgrounded the zombies are. They're just an obstacle, not this front and center threat every episode. I think one reason for the uptick is the potential DC storyline giving it forward movement. So yeah, that being off the table so quickly now may contribute to a sense of disappointment with things returning to the norm. If they can find some larger narrative drive to move them forward as a group, I think that'll give considerable lift to the show.
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Post by Bizarre Gardening Accident on Dec 2, 2014 14:05:54 GMT -5
I don't want to be that negative nellie douchebag type, because there's been great stuff in this season. I would just like a goal to aim towards.
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Post by nowimnothing on Dec 2, 2014 14:18:49 GMT -5
I would say the comic is starting to work toward something now. I am not sure what it is, but they are not starting all over again, yet again. There seems to be some momentum building. If the show can start to head that way it could bring it back around. A character like pastor Carver at this late stage does not help matters.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Dec 2, 2014 17:22:58 GMT -5
I think Bizarre Gardening Accident is right: This show really is better with goals. And I also think that's why season five thus far has worked well: It had goals. We had 'go to Washington' and 'save Beth.' The first goal was a lie and the second a failure, but they were agendas that motivated people beyond merely surviving. I don't know what goals the show will figure out for itself in the second half of the season, this said, but hopefully they'll have something. As for Revolution, for all its faults, was interested in a post-apocalyptic setting where new societies emerged. There were nations which had wars (or fell apart), there were entire societies like the Texas Republic or the Plains Nation (or the revanchist Patriots, using the notion of rebuilding the USA for their own sinister ends) and our heroes were people struggling to effect change on that broader scale. Walking Dead's approach to post-apocalyptic society has always been about the fundamental impermanence of society. In short, what this Cracked article argues is what Walking Dead is against is what Revolution had. ...this doesn't bother me, though, for two reasons. First, throw a stone and you hit a post-apocalyptic TV series. There's even going to be a sitcom, Last Man on Earth; and there are some that are interested in world-building - like Defiance, which is Fallout by way of Star Trek, and probably the 100 (haven't seen the second season yet, but the first suggested some interesting things about the wider post-nuclear fallout Earth of that TV series.) Secondly, Walking Dead might have a formula, but it's a formula that, when applied well, works well. The last eight episodes hit a ton of beats that are familiar to Walking Dead fans - Beth's arc could be argued to be a repeat of Andrea's in season three, but in a much shorter space of time and with a character given far more agency - but it executed this effectively. And hey, now Morgan Jones is going to finally be a main character probably, and I can't be the only person who's wanted that since first seeing him in the pilot.
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Post by rimjobflashmob on Dec 2, 2014 17:25:38 GMT -5
Every scene with Lennie James is better than anything TWD's ever done.
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Post by pairesta on Feb 9, 2015 9:54:41 GMT -5
SPOILERS
Well, I wasn't expecting that, certainly not so soon on the heels of Beth's death.
Tyrese never quite gelled as a character though, and once they put him on that no-killing path he was a dead end. Too bad; when he was first introduced I had high hopes for him.
Not so sure that the arty stuff worked this episode, including the dead people talking to Tyrese.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Feb 9, 2015 18:06:07 GMT -5
Oh Walking Dead.
1. Noah and Richmond basically came out of nowhere right? Do not remember that from last year and all.
2. The classic 'never before mentioned aspect of character is actually really important,' in this case Tyrese listening to the news. I guess we can let this slide as there are few circumstances you'd mention this, but even so.
Disjointed, dispiriting but at least memorable return to Walking Dead. Since interviews suggest they want to end the season on a hopeful note they may have got the Death out of the way early for this batch of eight episodes.
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Post by rimjobflashmob on Feb 9, 2015 19:09:22 GMT -5
Does this knock TWD's patented Black Dude Quota down enough for Morgan to hop on the full-time cast list? Pretty please?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 22:10:33 GMT -5
Big gay smooching on the Walking Dead and I say hooray! After the zombie apocalypse is no time for bullshit predjudices.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Feb 24, 2015 21:58:34 GMT -5
Does this knock TWD's patented Black Dude Quota down enough for Morgan to hop on the full-time cast list? Pretty please? He's the lead on Sky's new medical drama Critical. To answer your question: I have no idea.
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Post by rimjobflashmob on Feb 24, 2015 22:54:37 GMT -5
Does this knock TWD's patented Black Dude Quota down enough for Morgan to hop on the full-time cast list? Pretty please? He's the lead on Sky's new medical drama Critical. To answer your question: I have no idea. Apparently the current fan theory is that he's following their trail a year in the future, or something silly like that. Side note: I thought the last episode was the best so far this season (and maybe before that) despite that ridiculous applesauce scene.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Feb 25, 2015 7:33:20 GMT -5
rimjobflashmob That fan theory actually tracks with what Scott Gimple has said; he's called the Morgan Jones scenes flash forwards into at least a couple of months. I'll give you last episode was the best one of this half-season, but the first half of season five had some good episodes so wouldn't go further.
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Post by rimjobflashmob on Feb 25, 2015 11:27:17 GMT -5
rimjobflashmob That fan theory actually tracks with what Scott Gimple has said; he's called the Morgan Jones scenes flash forwards into at least a couple of months. I'll give you last episode was the best one of this half-season, but the first half of season five had some good episodes so wouldn't go further. That's actually kind of awesome. Gimple is probably the best thing that ever happened to this show. Looking over the list of S5 eps, I really liked "Self Help" and "Consumed" so I agree with you there. I thought the hospital mini-arc was a bit of a misstep though.
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Post by pairesta on Mar 3, 2015 9:35:29 GMT -5
Pretty interesting turn in how things are going. I almost thought last week would have been a great finale for the season and the appropriately hopeful note it needs to end on, with Rick hearing children laughing and deciding that's what he needed to hear to go in.
It's almost darkly funny if they've finally found a perfect community, but they manage to be the ones who are trouble, not the community, as has been so many other times. Plus, holy shit, Rick just casually dropping that they'll just wipe everyone out and move in if it comes to that.
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Post by rimjobflashmob on Mar 3, 2015 10:29:46 GMT -5
MILD COMIC SPOILERSI know it won't happen with Negan already cast and an apparent 90 minute finale, but I'd be really into it if Rick & the group get fed up with their "weak" neighbors and attempt a hostile takeover. The less good these people are, the more I like them.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Mar 3, 2015 10:35:07 GMT -5
Carol lying through her teeth to the camera was the funniest thing this show has done all season. Definitely the best episode of this half thus far, too.
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Post by pairesta on Mar 3, 2015 10:48:38 GMT -5
Carol lying through her teeth to the camera was the funniest thing this show has done all season. Definitely the best episode of this half thus far, too. I can't believe I'm saying this about Walking Dead, but it was so subtle I didn't catch it at first. I certainly didn't catch her fumbling with her gun as laying the groundwork.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Mar 3, 2015 10:55:42 GMT -5
pairesta Me neither! I noticed that she fumbled but I had no idea that was meant to be a con until people pointed it out. And just two episodes ago Carol was the one explicitly spelling out the subtext just in case nobody put two and two together.
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Post by rimjobflashmob on Mar 3, 2015 13:01:22 GMT -5
MILD COMIC SPOILERSI know it won't happen with Negan already cast and an apparent 90 minute finale, but I'd be really into it if Rick & the group get fed up with their "weak" neighbors and attempt a hostile takeover. The less good these people are, the more I like them. Damn, I didn't know Negan had already been cast. Guess they're not going to be at Alexandria very long. Well, aren't they still there now in the comics? Alexandria seems to be their home base but they have adventures outside the walls pretty constantly. I haven't read a ton past #104 or so though.
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