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Post by DangOlJimmyITellYouWhat on Jul 8, 2019 19:28:09 GMT -5
Watching The Departed, and man, I miss those Bahston accent threads on TOC.
edit later: Vera Farmiga in this movie should 1000% not be allowed to pick out her own dates jesus christ that is some shitty taste in men.
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Post by Floyd D Barber on Jul 9, 2019 0:09:46 GMT -5
I mean, sure, "what if you went back in time and 'invented' some technology/art that doesn't exist yet" is a common sci-fi trope, but this particular iteration is really interesting. How would the cultural landscape of 2019 be different without the Beatles and the acts they inspired (which is, um, a solid 50% of Western pop music)? Would the Beatles songbook even resonate in 2019? Given the film's casting - would the Beatles be so popular if they were a nebbish Indian guy instead of four photogenic white boys? Honestly, the other stuff "Yesterday" said didn't exist are more of a WTF thing than the Beatles. This film says Coca-Cola and cigarettes don't exist. And due to that I'd have to then wonder how the United States is a thing that is pretty much exactly the same. Like..... if you tell me that the TOBACCO industry doesn't exist, I'd think the USA would be radically different.
Also, in this universe "Harry Potter" doesn't exist. Given this.... wouldn't you choose to write Harry Potter rather than release the songs of the Beatles? I mean, which would be more lucrative in today's market? And if Harry Potter didn't exist, what would YA literature look like now? The mind boggles. I'd think it would make far more sense that an Indian guy from the UK could write Harry Potter and be successful than him somehow turning the Beatles catalog into massive worldwide hits in today's music industry.
Seems to me that it would be more likely for some random person to have a bunch of 3 minute Beatles songs memorized than a bunch of 300 page (or longer?) Harry Potter books. But then I can't remember what I had for lunch day before yesterday, much less an entire novel.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jul 11, 2019 22:54:09 GMT -5
I mean, I love the Beatles, and can probably sing every song of theirs, and play most of them on the piano. I"m not as good on the guitar, but I could make a stab at that, too.
However, I know all the Harry Potter plots really well. Even the subplots. I could come up with a reasonable facisimile of those books. Well, maybe not Book 7. I could rewrite Book 7 to be better, though.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Jul 12, 2019 11:06:01 GMT -5
I feel like the film Yesterday would've been much more interesting if, instead of ending up in a world where The Beatles had never existed, that guy had ended up in a world where which is the only music that had ever existed was the music of Karlheinz Stockhausen.
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patbat
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Post by patbat on Jul 12, 2019 14:25:24 GMT -5
The fact that Yesterday posits a world in which the Beatles never existed but the subsequent development of Western pop music was, somehow, otherwise unaltered proves that there isn't actually an interesting concept there at all. The movie is basically just the equivalent of countless Boomer YouTube comments on how much better music was when they were young.
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Jul 12, 2019 15:25:16 GMT -5
The fact that Yesterday posits a world in which the Beatles never existed but the subsequent development of Western pop music was, somehow, otherwise unaltered proves that there isn't actually an interesting concept there at all. The movie is basically just the equivalent of countless Boomer YouTube comments on how much better music was when they were young. Well, it still could be an interesting concept, but just a much harder, weirder movie to make. Like, you'd have to spend just an ass load of time and effort with actual music historians/composers/etc. trying to come up with a bunch of stuff that plausibly sounds like hits while somehow noticeably being non-Beatles-influenced. And that would just be for world-building purposes and would probably only passingly factor into the actual plot of the movie. This is just like, "Well, I want to make a Beatles jukebox musical and Across the Universe already exists so I need to find some sort of high-concept hook"
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Post by DangOlJimmyITellYouWhat on Jul 12, 2019 16:01:54 GMT -5
The fact that Yesterday posits a world in which the Beatles never existed but the subsequent development of Western pop music was, somehow, otherwise unaltered proves that there isn't actually an interesting concept there at all. The movie is basically just the equivalent of countless Boomer YouTube comments on how much better music was when they were young. Well, it still could be an interesting concept, but just a much harder, weirder movie to make. Like, you'd have to spend just an ass load of time and effort with actual music historians/composers/etc. trying to come up with a bunch of stuff that plausibly sounds like hits while somehow noticeably being non-Beatles-influenced. And that would just be for world-building purposes and would probably only passingly factor into the actual plot of the movie. This is just like, "Well, I want to make a Beatles jukebox musical and Across the Universe already exists so I need to find some sort of high-concept hook"
I am constantly fucking annoyed by fanfiction that's labelled "AU scenario and no-one is (the defining feature of that fictional universe)" and the like, because for most fictional characters, that defining feature is the thing that props up the entire universe, and you can't just yank it away and expect them to have the same personality. A Steve Rogers who got ripped by hard work in the gym is not the same guy as a Steve Rogers who got Vita-Rayed into being shredded ( that's why I don't read that kind of AU; superpowers are the point of the story omg).
ANYWAY
This is the problem with any "What if Massively Influential Thing never existed?" scenario. Christ knows that I am ALL for AUs, but you have to commit to that concept, actually stop to consider all the things that would not now exist without that Massively Influential Thing, and not just things like "Oh that James Bond movie would have had a different theme song". You can't get rid of the Beatles without completely changing the face of the entire music industry, and a lot of fairly major socio-cultural aspects that aren't actually part of the music industry itself.
Yeah, it's a lot of work, but you're not actually exploring the consequences of No Beatles if you don't put that work in.
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Jul 12, 2019 16:12:36 GMT -5
Well, it still could be an interesting concept, but just a much harder, weirder movie to make. Like, you'd have to spend just an ass load of time and effort with actual music historians/composers/etc. trying to come up with a bunch of stuff that plausibly sounds like hits while somehow noticeably being non-Beatles-influenced. And that would just be for world-building purposes and would probably only passingly factor into the actual plot of the movie. This is just like, "Well, I want to make a Beatles jukebox musical and Across the Universe already exists so I need to find some sort of high-concept hook"
I am constantly fucking annoyed by fanfiction that's labelled "AU scenario and no-one is (the defining feature of that fictional universe)" and the like, because for most fictional characters, that defining feature is the thing that props up the entire universe, and you can't just yank it away and expect them to have the same personality. A Steve Rogers who got ripped by hard work in the gym is not the same guy as a Steve Rogers who got Vita-Rayed into being shredded ( that's why I don't read that kind of AU; superpowers are the point of the story omg).
ANYWAY
This is the problem with any "What if Massively Influential Thing never existed?" scenario. Christ knows that I am ALL for AUs, but you have to commit to that concept, actually stop to consider all the things that would not now exist without that Massively Influential Thing, and not just things like "Oh that James Bond movie would have had a different theme song". You can't get rid of the Beatles without completely changing the face of the entire music industry, and a lot of fairly major socio-cultural aspects that aren't actually part of the music industry itself.
Yeah, it's a lot of work, but you're not actually exploring the consequences of No Beatles if you don't put that work in.
Yea, or you go the other way and it's just like "yea, Herman's Hermits just blew up instead and basically things stayed the same" but then you kind of undermine the whole reason for doing a Beatles AU movie. And also, in that world wouldn't this guy peak at "reasonably good British Invasion throwback" but still be seen as out-of-sync with current music tastes and/or kind of derivative for 'new' material in 2019?
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patbat
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Post by patbat on Jul 12, 2019 16:19:49 GMT -5
And also, in that world wouldn't this guy peak at "reasonably good British Invasion throwback" but still be seen as out-of-sync with current music tastes and/or kind of derivative for 'new' material in 2019? This is my point exactly--the movie is suggesting that the Beatles' music is just so objectively good that a dude covering their songs verbatim would become the world's biggest star. Hence my comment that this is just more masturbatory Boomer self-congratulation rather than a movie any actual thought went into.
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Jul 12, 2019 16:23:14 GMT -5
And also, in that world wouldn't this guy peak at "reasonably good British Invasion throwback" but still be seen as out-of-sync with current music tastes and/or kind of derivative for 'new' material in 2019? This is my point exactly--the movie is suggesting that the Beatles' music is just so objectively good that a dude covering their songs verbatim would become the world's biggest star. Hence my comment that this is just more masturbatory Boomer self-congratulation rather than a movie any actual thought went into. I mean, if you were able to cherry-pick you probably would be a critical darling for that album, but no I don't think you'd break out as some massive star.
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Jul 13, 2019 11:34:32 GMT -5
And also, in that world wouldn't this guy peak at "reasonably good British Invasion throwback" but still be seen as out-of-sync with current music tastes and/or kind of derivative for 'new' material in 2019? This is my point exactly--the movie is suggesting that the Beatles' music is just so objectively good that a dude covering their songs verbatim would become the world's biggest star. Hence my comment that this is just more masturbatory Boomer self-congratulation rather than a movie any actual thought went into. Counterpoint: how many racist old boomers are going to watch a movie about an interracial couple that hobnobs with Ed Fucking Sheeran?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2019 16:00:14 GMT -5
It should have been him plagiarizing Limp Bizkit. It all ends at a grocery store where the main character is shopping, he sees a guy wearing a backwards red hat buying some hot dogs. They lock eyes, the main characrer realizes it is Fred Durst and they nod to each other. Roll credits.
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Jul 13, 2019 16:27:59 GMT -5
It should have been him plagiarizing Limp Bizkit. It all ends at a grocery store where the main character is shopping, he sees a guy wearing a backwards red hat buying some hot dogs. They lock eyes, the main characrer realizes it is Fred Durst and they nod to each other. Roll credits. A universe without Limp Bizkit - now that is a tragedy.
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Post by Crash Test Dumbass on Jul 14, 2019 8:51:58 GMT -5
Two thoughts: 1) I was watching some of Singin' In The Rain (which, if not my favorite movie, is certainly in the top three), and I'm just amazed at the long takes and how technically proficient the actors had to be, especially since I understand Gene Kelly was something of a taskmaster. 2) I am so spoiled by laziness. I have the movie on DVD, but since I would have to get up, get the DVD, put it into the DVD player, switch to that input, and THEN watch the movie, ugh, why isn't it just on streaming, I'll just poke around the streaming options for half an hour before giving up and falling asleep to Chopped reruns again.
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Post by DangOlJimmyITellYouWhat on Jul 14, 2019 12:22:52 GMT -5
I always forget how funny and awesome Kirsten Dunst can actually be until I watch Drop Dead Gorgeous.
In 100% related news, I love Drop Dead Gorgeous so much.
Although it's been long enough I hadn't realized Amy Adams was the cheerleader.
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Post by Hachiman on Jul 15, 2019 21:02:40 GMT -5
I always forget how funny and awesome Kirsten Dunst can actually be until I watch Drop Dead Gorgeous. In 100% related news, I love Drop Dead Gorgeous so much. Although it's been long enough I hadn't realize Amy Adams was the cheerleader. I always joke that I am turning into the Japanese dad from that movie and by the time I eventually move home I'll be screaming at my kids to speak English.
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Post by Pastafarian on Jul 18, 2019 8:32:59 GMT -5
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Post by Pastafarian on Jul 18, 2019 8:37:50 GMT -5
The fact that Yesterday posits a world in which the Beatles never existed but the subsequent development of Western pop music was, somehow, otherwise unaltered proves that there isn't actually an interesting concept there at all. The movie is basically just the equivalent of countless Boomer YouTube comments on how much better music was when they were young. Well, it still could be an interesting concept, but just a much harder, weirder movie to make. Like, you'd have to spend just an ass load of time and effort with actual music historians/composers/etc. trying to come up with a bunch of stuff that plausibly sounds like hits while somehow noticeably being non-Beatles-influenced. And that would just be for world-building purposes and would probably only passingly factor into the actual plot of the movie. This is just like, "Well, I want to make a Beatles jukebox musical and Across the Universe already exists so I need to find some sort of high-concept hook" Alternatively (but probably even more work) you could time travel to right before the Beatles hit the big time, kidnap them and bring them to the future with you, and then just write down everything you see before returning them back to where they go (with perhaps a warning to John about staying away from weird looking fans in front of the Dakota).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2019 18:26:42 GMT -5
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Post by Jean Luc de Lemur on Jul 22, 2019 13:01:53 GMT -5
Honestly, the other stuff "Yesterday" said didn't exist are more of a WTF thing than the Beatles. This film says Coca-Cola and cigarettes don't exist. And due to that I'd have to then wonder how the United States is a thing that is pretty much exactly the same. Like..... if you tell me that the TOBACCO industry doesn't exist, I'd think the USA would be radically different. Also, in this universe "Harry Potter" doesn't exist. Given this.... wouldn't you choose to write Harry Potter rather than release the songs of the Beatles? I mean, which would be more lucrative in today's market? And if Harry Potter didn't exist, what would YA literature look like now? The mind boggles. I'd think it would make far more sense that an Indian guy from the UK could write Harry Potter and be successful than him somehow turning the Beatles catalog into massive worldwide hits in today's music industry.
So what I gather from this is that the world is a much better place in Yesterday and the protagonist goes ahead and ruins it.
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Post by DangOlJimmyITellYouWhat on Jul 28, 2019 17:33:44 GMT -5
"This isn't a minor prequel plot hole, like Obi-Wan forgetting that he totally owned a droid named R2-D2."
Oh FOR FUCK'S SAKE this is the year of our lord Leia Organa 2019 do people really still think this is a plot hole? In a galaxy with what looks like more droids than people, do you really expect anyone is going to remember every. fucking. droid. they ever owned or came across? Also Obi-wan has literally said that "R2 units are a dime a dozen", so that's pretty much like an smartphone, right? Would anyone recognize a phone they owned 20 years ago?
Also also why are you assuming that Obi-wan isn't lying when he says "I don't remember owning an R2 unit"? omg guess what people LIE especially when talking to the 20-year-old kid he doesn't actually know.
And last but not least R2-D2 is not a NAME it's a mODEL NUMBER of that specific astromech droid. I mean I love R2 unreasonably, but there's not a chance he's the only R2 unit out there with that particular paintjob.
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Post by Powerthirteen on Jul 28, 2019 20:58:33 GMT -5
Re: Once Upon A Time In Hollywood - a gritty remake of La La Land with no musical numbers and a gay relationship instead of a straight is a great idea, but switching from "wistful melancholia" to "gruesome bloodbath" for the coda just doesn't work.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 21:21:15 GMT -5
"This isn't a minor prequel plot hole, like Obi-Wan forgetting that he totally owned a droid named R2-D2." Oh FOR FUCK'S SAKE this is the year of our lord Leia Organa 2019 do people really still think this is a plot hole?Β In a galaxy with what looks like more droids than people, do you really expect anyone is going to remember every. fucking. droid. they ever owned or came across? Also Obi-wan has literally said thatΒ "R2 units are a dime a dozen", so that's pretty much like an smartphone, right? Would anyone recognize a phone they owned 20 years ago? Also also why are you assuming that Obi-wan isn't lying when he says "I don't remember owning an R2 unit"? omg guess what people LIE especially when talking to the 20-year-old kid he doesn't actually know. And last but not least R2-D2 is not a NAME it's a mODEL NUMBER of that specific astromech droid. I mean I love R2 unreasonably, but there's not a chance he's the only R2 unit out there with that particular paintjob. The Clone Wars series showed that Obi Wan doesn't give a shit about droids. One episode iirc was Obi-Wan trying to get Anakin to trash R2 for a "superior" droid. Obi-Wan clearly thought of droids as nothing but tools.
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Post by Hachiman on Jul 28, 2019 21:36:27 GMT -5
"This isn't a minor prequel plot hole, like Obi-Wan forgetting that he totally owned a droid named R2-D2." Oh FOR FUCK'S SAKE this is the year of our lord Leia Organa 2019 do people really still think this is a plot hole? In a galaxy with what looks like more droids than people, do you really expect anyone is going to remember every. fucking. droid. they ever owned or came across? Also Obi-wan has literally said that "R2 units are a dime a dozen", so that's pretty much like an smartphone, right? Would anyone recognize a phone they owned 20 years ago? Also also why are you assuming that Obi-wan isn't lying when he says "I don't remember owning an R2 unit"? omg guess what people LIE especially when talking to the 20-year-old kid he doesn't actually know. And last but not least R2-D2 is not a NAME it's a mODEL NUMBER of that specific astromech droid. I mean I love R2 unreasonably, but there's not a chance he's the only R2 unit out there with that particular paintjob. I believe ownership of R2 was pretty clearly shown to be a line from the Naboo government to Padme to Anakin to (nominally) back to Padme to Bail Organa. Obi-Wan only has possession of R2 long enough to say "Anybody want two droids? Personally I can't stand the things!"
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Post by Nudeviking on Jul 28, 2019 21:38:04 GMT -5
"This isn't a minor prequel plot hole, like Obi-Wan forgetting that he totally owned a droid named R2-D2." Oh FOR FUCK'S SAKE this is the year of our lord Leia Organa 2019 do people really still think this is a plot hole? In a galaxy with what looks like more droids than people, do you really expect anyone is going to remember every. fucking. droid. they ever owned or came across? Also Obi-wan has literally said that "R2 units are a dime a dozen", so that's pretty much like an smartphone, right? Would anyone recognize a phone they owned 20 years ago? Also also why are you assuming that Obi-wan isn't lying when he says "I don't remember owning an R2 unit"? omg guess what people LIE especially when talking to the 20-year-old kid he doesn't actually know. And last but not least R2-D2 is not a NAME it's a mODEL NUMBER of that specific astromech droid. I mean I love R2 unreasonably, but there's not a chance he's the only R2 unit out there with that particular paintjob. I don't even think he's lying when he says he doesn't remember owning an R2 unit since R2-D2 was one of the 900 R2 units that were on Queen Amidala's silver space ship thing. We never see her give R2 to him. It could just be that she (or whoever owned the R2s on the silver space ship) let him borrow it.
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Post by Hachiman on Jul 28, 2019 22:01:31 GMT -5
"This isn't a minor prequel plot hole, like Obi-Wan forgetting that he totally owned a droid named R2-D2." Oh FOR FUCK'S SAKE this is the year of our lord Leia Organa 2019 do people really still think this is a plot hole? In a galaxy with what looks like more droids than people, do you really expect anyone is going to remember every. fucking. droid. they ever owned or came across? Also Obi-wan has literally said that "R2 units are a dime a dozen", so that's pretty much like an smartphone, right? Would anyone recognize a phone they owned 20 years ago? Also also why are you assuming that Obi-wan isn't lying when he says "I don't remember owning an R2 unit"? omg guess what people LIE especially when talking to the 20-year-old kid he doesn't actually know. And last but not least R2-D2 is not a NAME it's a mODEL NUMBER of that specific astromech droid. I mean I love R2 unreasonably, but there's not a chance he's the only R2 unit out there with that particular paintjob. I don't even think he's lying when he says he doesn't remember owning an R2 unit since R2-D2 was one of the 900 R2 units that were on Queen Amidala's silver space ship thing. We never see her give R2 to him. It could just be that she (or whoever owned the R2s on the silver space ship) let him borrow it. It actually tracks that Obi-Wan simply doesn't notice or recognize R2 EVER. Think about it, they met in both of the first two prequel movies and then R2 is Anakin's buddy in Episode III. At no point does Obi-Wan go, "Hey, that looks like the same model Senator Amidala has!" or "Are-Are you using Senator Amidala's droid for your combat missions?" You'd think two friends owning the same car or computer (or droid in this case) or clearly sharing such things would tip anybody else off that there might be something going on, but it didn't even occur to Obi-Wan.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 7:23:37 GMT -5
I've been seeing a lot of people trash on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood for not having a point. That it is just Tarantino turning the aesthetic porn up to 11(which he did, and there is nothing wrong with that imo) and nothing else.... which is totally fucking false. I really don't get how people missed the main thematic points in that movie about the Rick and Cliff characters, where they were trying to come to terms with their own growing uselessness in the Hollywood industry. It's pretty much spelled out by Al Pacino within the first 10 minutes. I'm going to see this movie again just to spite them.
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Post by kitchin on Jul 30, 2019 21:47:17 GMT -5
I've been seeing a lot of people trash on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood for not having a point. That it is just Tarantino turning the aesthetic porn up to 11(which he did, and there is nothing wrong with that imo) and nothing else.... which is totally fucking false. I really don't get how people missed the main thematic points in that movie about the Rick and Cliff characters, where they were trying to come to terms with their own growing uselessness in the Hollywood industry. It's pretty much spelled out by Al Pacino within the first 10 minutes. I'm going to see this movie again just to spite them. Any comparisons to the (lamented/lamentable) David Duchovny NBC series "Aquarius" earlier this decade?
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Post by oppy all along on Aug 2, 2019 1:02:15 GMT -5
Christopher Nolan is an uptight purist who loves the cinema more than anything, and is the leading force against the 'watching movies on your phone or online' revolution.
Christopher Nolan released a trailer exclusively in the cinema because, as previously mentioned, he fucking loves the cinema.
His fans, so called, record the trailer on their phones and share it online.
I mean I don't like Nolan and I still have more respect for his principles than his fans do apparently. Way to spit in his face people.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2019 6:32:38 GMT -5
I've been seeing a lot of people trash on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood for not having a point. That it is just Tarantino turning the aesthetic porn up to 11(which he did, and there is nothing wrong with that imo) and nothing else.... which is totally fucking false. I really don't get how people missed the main thematic points in that movie about the Rick and Cliff characters, where they were trying to come to terms with their own growing uselessness in the Hollywood industry. It's pretty much spelled out by Al Pacino within the first 10 minutes. I'm going to see this movie again just to spite them. Any comparisons to the (lamented/lamentable) David Duchovny NBC series "Aquarius" earlier this decade? Other than time period and manson? Nothing similar at all.
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