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Post by ganews on Dec 2, 2015 16:37:23 GMT -5
I'm no hardcore reader of the Avengers books, but it seems to me like that phenomenon would be pretty true to the comics, no? In the comics version of Civil War, the rift between Steve and Tony had a huge impact on the readers. By the time that it happened, in the current continuity they'd been working together for a decade or more, and they genuinely were good friends. That's why reading it in the comics hurt so much. (I cried my eyes out at one particular scene involving Tony after Steve died.) But Whedon didn't do a good enough job of establishing their friendship, so in the MCU it just rings false. We don't know at what point in the movie Tony declares their friendship. It might be after 30 minutes of tandem bike rides and long walks on the beach. This is the problem with agonizing over trailers.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Dec 2, 2015 16:39:55 GMT -5
In the comics version of Civil War, the rift between Steve and Tony had a huge impact on the readers. By the time that it happened, in the current continuity they'd been working together for a decade or more, and they genuinely were good friends. That's why reading it in the comics hurt so much. (I cried my eyes out at one particular scene involving Tony after Steve died.) But Whedon didn't do a good enough job of establishing their friendship, so in the MCU it just rings false. We don't know at what point in the movie Tony declares their friendship. It might be after 30 minutes of tandem bike rides and long walks on the beach. This is the problem with agonizing over trailers. We also don't know that Steve doesn't tell Tony he's being an idiot right after he says that line.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 18:31:13 GMT -5
In the comics version of Civil War, the rift between Steve and Tony had a huge impact on the readers. By the time that it happened, in the current continuity they'd been working together for a decade or more, and they genuinely were good friends. That's why reading it in the comics hurt so much. (I cried my eyes out at one particular scene involving Tony after Steve died.) But Whedon didn't do a good enough job of establishing their friendship, so in the MCU it just rings false. I was more referring to the idea of a potentially jarring difference in character interpretation between the solo series writer and the team series writer. I don't think that is something unique to the movies. The real difference is the depth of history the comic books could draw from for emotional impact. that is a lot easier to happen in comics due to the sheer amount of staff turnover and constant storyline shifts. For something as assembly lined and planned out as the MCU(they have shit planned till the mid 2020s) they should be a lot more consistent with the characters. It is one of the bonuses they should have. Once again, I'm going to head off to watch Jessica Jones.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Dec 3, 2015 9:38:31 GMT -5
Tony and Steve don't even seem like friends, just coworkers at best. Coworkers who work maybe once a year with each other at that. Black widow and Steve are friends, Tony and banner are friends. Tony and Steve? Fuck no. This is why it all feels so so dumb. I kinda got the feeling from the trailer that that was the first time Tony ever admitted Steve was his friend. I think after saving the planet together two times and hanging out with him at various points between that you probably get to like a guy, even if they disagreed on a whole lot of things. But there's a fair point as far as consistency of character goes - Iron Man goes through more or less the same arc in every movie he's in.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Dec 9, 2015 9:57:53 GMT -5
Amusing.
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Post by odnetnin on Dec 9, 2015 11:15:42 GMT -5
Amusing is perhaps the most appropriate word to describe that. It doesn't really benefit from being drawn given the nondescript location and lack of context for Woody's statement, but it is still clever.
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Post by Lady Bones on Mar 10, 2016 15:30:39 GMT -5
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Post by Hawkguy on Mar 10, 2016 15:37:04 GMT -5
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by ganews on Mar 10, 2016 16:55:29 GMT -5
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not 100% as jazzed right now as I ought to be, but I'll set my hopes high. The costume is still not as good as the first design, but I do like the animated eyes.
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Post by ganews on Mar 10, 2016 18:47:43 GMT -5
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not 100% as jazzed right now as I ought to be, but I'll set my hopes high. The costume is still not as good as the first design, but I do like the animated eyes. I had to read about 800 comments on the AVC Coming Distractions page before someone pointed out that the costume eyes squint in the comics ALL THE DAMN TIME. How does a page so steeped in nerd miss that?
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Post by Hawkguy on Mar 11, 2016 8:17:55 GMT -5
I'm not 100% as jazzed right now as I ought to be, but I'll set my hopes high. The costume is still not as good as the first design, but I do like the animated eyes. I had to read about 800 comments on the AVC Coming Distractions page before someone pointed out that the costume eyes squint in the comics ALL THE DAMN TIME. How does a page so steeped in nerd miss that? Ha i think most people couldn't get over that yea it does it in books to show expression but HOW a real one would do that to which i say *fart noise*
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Mar 11, 2016 12:28:10 GMT -5
Marvel are so lame.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Mar 11, 2016 12:44:30 GMT -5
I had to read about 800 comments on the AVC Coming Distractions page before someone pointed out that the costume eyes squint in the comics ALL THE DAMN TIME. How does a page so steeped in nerd miss that? I presume because that's something people already knew? Hell, I know that, and I've never read a Spider-Man comic. But there's some things that work better drawn than they do in live action, and eyes like that 'squinting' are one of them - because, in the unreality of a comic book drawing (or a cartoon, like Batman: The Animated Series, which also did this), we can read that as a depiction of the character's actual eyes squinting. With live action that's removed, as what is doing the squinting is very clearly and unambiguously not his eyes. It's like how Duckman's eyes were literally inside his glasses. This would not work in live action on a photorealistic duck. Anyway if one removes the Spider-Man sizzle moment, there's not a lot to this trailer - it reuses a couple of lines and footage from earlier trailers, and without the semi-narrative arc of the first one that gave more building tension to it; this is something more of a formless slog of heroes punching each other around.
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Post by *Deep, Pained Sigh* on Apr 30, 2016 20:44:53 GMT -5
So I just saw it because I am from the UK. SPOILERS AHOY
It's really long and has an awful lot of characters but the plot moves along quickly and it's a pleasant change to be free from Whedon-y scenes. The action scenes are some of the best yet and the airport fight is a lot more dynamic then the trailers portray.
The Spidey stuff is really cool and I didn't want to kick the actor in the balls. Black Panther and Goliath are great too.
Unfortunately the ending is pretty garbled and flat. The villain's grand scheme is kind of nothingburger and nothing gets broken that can't really be fixed.
Overall it's maybe my fourth favourite MCU movie behind GotG, Avengers 1 & Winter Soldier.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on May 1, 2016 7:23:22 GMT -5
I realise that logic doesn't apply ultimately, as Everyone Loves RDJ kinda trumps all in these situations, but still. I'm getting worrying AOU vibes from this now. Age of Ultron is about right. Someone on AVC called it Age of Ultron meets Winter Soldier, and that's pretty much it. Not that the rationales for the different characters to line up where they may don't make sense for the characters (they largely do) but more that it's barely concerned with plot when it has so many interpersonal relationships it can play with instead. And even still, it's just too long.
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Post by King Charles’s Butterfly on May 4, 2016 19:37:38 GMT -5
Yuri Petrovitch My understanding is that run time crowds out competition in theaters, so there’s some incentive to keeping them long.
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Post by DangOlJimmyITellYouWhat on May 6, 2016 10:39:15 GMT -5
Ok my current biggest issue is this: WHY do they not point out that the Secretary of State is THADDEUS ROSS who NO ONE should listen to about ANYTHING regarding personal freedom rights and who arguably hates Bruce Banner personally? I find that to be extremely relevant information.
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Post by Lady Bones on May 7, 2016 15:24:00 GMT -5
Only the slightest amounts of The Incredible Hulk seem to be treated as canon, one of which was a scene deleted from the actual movie. So who knows what Ross' role in the world prior to Civil War even is now? Why isn't Abomination locked up in the Raft?
That's not a defense, that's a "Their relationship with that movie's place in the story is bizarre at best and could use some clearing up."
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Post by Lt. Broccoli on May 7, 2016 16:13:13 GMT -5
My wife's one major annoyance: Rogers' gratuitous muscle posing while holding on to the helicopter. This seems like a reference to something though? Like someone or something else has that same pose, like an ancient Greek statue or something. Or maybe something more obvious. I can't think of it. My one major annoyance: during the meeting to sign the accords, there is a brief shot of some UN thing in the background, and there is unconnected Arabic script in it. How many hundreds of millions of dollars did it take to make this, and they couldn't afford a word processor that could properly render Arabic? Anyway, the rest of it was cool, I thought. EDIT: Maybe I'm thinking of the Artemision Bronze?
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Post by DangOlJimmyITellYouWhat on May 7, 2016 20:59:11 GMT -5
My wife's one major annoyance: Rogers' gratuitous muscle posing while holding on to the helicopter. This seems like a reference to something though? Like someone or something else has that same pose, like an ancient Greek statue or something. Or maybe something more obvious. I can't think of it. My one major annoyance: during the meeting to sign the accords, there is a brief shot of some UN thing in the background, and there is unconnected Arabic script in it. How many hundreds of millions of dollars did it take to make this, and they couldn't afford a word processor that could properly render Arabic? Anyway, the rest of it was cool, I thought. EDIT: Maybe I'm thinking of the Artemision Bronze? The "gratuitous posing" thing only bothered me a little bit; it is much easier to hold onto something underhand rather than overhand, if you see what I'm saying. But it does come across a little weird. Plus God bless Steve Rogers' stubborn little head. IMMA STOP A GODDAMN HELICOPTER FROM TAKING OFF. Also jfc I don't understand how his arms aren't CGI.
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Post by DangOlJimmyITellYouWhat on May 7, 2016 21:01:59 GMT -5
Only the slightest amounts of The Incredible Hulk seem to be treated as canon, one of which was a scene deleted from the actual movie. So who knows what Ross' role in the world prior to Civil War even is now? Why isn't Abomination locked up in the Raft? That's not a defense, that's a "Their relationship with that movie's place in the story is bizarre at best and could use some clearing up." Yeah, pretty much they are picking and choosing what they want in regards to Hulk movies, but I'm not sure there's any 'verse in which Ross isn't just a dick towards superheroes in general and Banner in particular. Also if they ever decide to bring Betty Ross into it, they better use Jennifer Connelly and not Liv Tyler, 's all I'm sayin.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on May 7, 2016 21:19:08 GMT -5
Only the slightest amounts of The Incredible Hulk seem to be treated as canon, one of which was a scene deleted from the actual movie. So who knows what Ross' role in the world prior to Civil War even is now? Well the movies have referred to 'Harlem' with regards to the Hulk (i.e. the climax of his MCU film) so I think we are supposed to assume that Ross really did go after the Hulk... ...but honestly, who the hell besides the Hulk, General Ross and his Disappearing-Into-The-Aether-Daughter knows the details? They might know he was the guy who headed up the military when two Hulkamaniacs wrecked a part of New York while Omar Little opted not to shoot at any kings; but his own culpability in creating part of the problem or his obsessive hunt for the Hulk may not be public knowledge (nor something Banner bothered to disclose at some point.) Given Iron Man thinks Banner would be on his side I have a feeling he literally never talked about this for whatever reason. Anyway, I suspect really the only reason to make this particular character General Ross is because it'd have payoff regarding the Hulk; my money is we'll see him again in Thor: Ragnarok hunting Banner (which will presumably lead somehow to him hitching a ride with the Norse God into space.) Also if they ever decide to bring Betty Ross into it, they better use Jennifer Connelly and not Liv Tyler, 's all I'm sayin. Honestly, Sam Elliott was a better General Ross, at that. You can't cast anyone else with a moustache after you've had Sam Elliot moustache without it looking like a step down (full disclosure: I quite liked the Ang Lee Hulk and hated the MCU one, so I'm biased a little here.)
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Post by *Deep, Pained Sigh* on May 8, 2016 15:45:37 GMT -5
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Post by Ben Grimm on May 8, 2016 16:58:47 GMT -5
We watched it this morning and quite enjoyed it. Probably the most spectacle in its Super Hero fights that we've seen so far. Black Panther was fantastic, and Spidey was the best onscreen version yet. That said, this was much more Avengers 2.5 than Captain America 3, not that that was really a bad thing.
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Post by DangOlJimmyITellYouWhat on May 8, 2016 20:57:32 GMT -5
Well the movies have referred to 'Harlem' with regards to the Hulk (i.e. the climax of his MCU film) so I think we are supposed to assume that Ross really did go after the Hulk... ...but honestly, who the hell besides the Hulk, General Ross and his Disappearing-Into-The-Aether-Daughter knows the details? They might know he was the guy who headed up the military when two Hulkamaniacs wrecked a part of New York while Omar Little opted not to shoot at any kings; but his own culpability in creating part of the problem or his obsessive hunt for the Hulk may not be public knowledge (nor something Banner bothered to disclose at some point.) Given Iron Man thinks Banner would be on his side I have a feeling he literally never talked about this for whatever reason. Anyway, I suspect really the only reason to make this particular character General Ross is because it'd have payoff regarding the Hulk; my money is we'll see him again in Thor: Ragnarok hunting Banner (which will presumably lead somehow to him hitching a ride with the Norse God into space.) Honestly, Sam Elliott was a better General Ross, at that. You can't cast anyone else with a moustache after you've had Sam Elliot moustache without it looking like a step down (full disclosure: I quite liked the Ang Lee Hulk and hated the MCU one, so I'm biased a little here.). Yeah, okay, I'll accept that Bruce hasn't really brought up his contentious relationship with Ross, but I will insist on some sort of scene where he flips his shit at Tony for not distrusting anything that comes out of Ross' mouth. And I don't care much for William Hurt in general, so I'm with you on Sam Elliott.
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Post by starforge on May 11, 2016 3:09:39 GMT -5
Just finished my first viewing. A fun and exciting romp, albeit not a very intelligent one. The debate sparked between Cap and Iron Man is presented in a rather illogical context, enough that it sort of drains momentum from the clash of the titans onscreen. The abundance of faces and the clip of the film somewhat makes up for this, however, and despite a somewhat inconsistent tone and a pair of plots at odds with one another, Civil War is still a typical Marvel blast of fun.
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Post by pairesta on May 13, 2016 12:25:23 GMT -5
Saw it last night. I was fairly entertained as with most Marvel movies. The airport battle sequence is so goddamned fun. But you get the sense that that was what they came up with first and then hung everything else around it. The villain's plot, as usual, makes no sense if you apply even a whisper of a thought to it.
But, like I said, that airport battle. I was just giddy during it and didn't care how many holes in logic there were.
It's really amazing--and, I think, a tribute to how locked down the MCU is on this--that they were able to make Spider-Man compelling again, so quickly. I love how they fucking handwaved his origins in a deliberate nod to the reboots.
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Post by nowimnothing on May 14, 2016 16:38:46 GMT -5
I thought Tom Holland and Paul Rudd brought a lot of fun that was missing from Ultron.
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Post by ganews on May 17, 2016 23:17:59 GMT -5
Saw it tonight. My only complaint was in the first few fight scenes, the ones happening on city streets, the camera was ultra-shakey. I don't mean the shakey cam style, I mean truly disorientingly wobbly. I was worried it would all be like that, but once the civilians were gone it settled down.
The inter-avenger fights were all very well done. Nobody looked useless. Everyone got a decently well-explained motivation without a long backstory exposition.
As usual, the nerds prematurely howling over the trailers were wrong. Spidey's mask-eye movements were explained as due to hypersensitivity before even appearing in the movie. The Cap/Stark "friend" line was explained by the betrayal of trust regarding Tony's parents.
Daniel Brühl was good, as usual. I didn't have a problem with his villain plan. I thought it was a good idea that a movie so full of heroes had a non-powered bad guy. And there turned out to be a really good reason for the final fight.
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Invisible Goat
Shoutbox Elitist
Grab your mother's keys, we're leaving
Posts: 2,630
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Post by Invisible Goat on May 17, 2016 23:41:42 GMT -5
I enjoyed it for the most part. The action was great, esp. the airport fight scene, though I didn't see Antman so was kind of lost there. Spiderman was great and fun.
But man, it was just punishingly long. I was ready to go after the airport scene and there were still another 40 minutes or so.
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