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Post by starforge on Jun 3, 2016 22:25:54 GMT -5
starforge Word is that is the USS Franklin, which seems to be something Our Heroes take over at some point (apparently an older starship that just happened to be around.) This is official concept art of said ship: Yeah I am not wild about that design at all. I assume it's pronbably related to the NX, maybe something built a little later. Nice photo! Honestly, I actually find it adorable. Scout ship most likely, and I certainly have huge theories on why it's in the flick.
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Post by King Charles’s Butterfly on Jun 5, 2016 14:37:24 GMT -5
starforge Word is that is the USS Franklin, which seems to be something Our Heroes take over at some point (apparently an older starship that just happened to be around.) This is official concept art of said ship: Yeah I am not wild about that design at all. I assume it's pronbably related to the NX, maybe something built a little later. At first I was all, “Aw, cool, they’re maintaining the tradition of having the lighting of the registration number (even if the light’s a little big.” Then I remembered this is Abrams Trek, where the viewscreen’s a giant windshield and that’s probably the bridge. ............................................________ ....................................,.-'"...................``~., .............................,.-"..................................."-., .........................,/...............................................":, .....................,?......................................................, .................../...........................................................,} ................./......................................................,:`^`..} .............../...................................................,:"........./ ..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../ ............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../ .........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/ ..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....} ...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../ ...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../ ............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-" ............/.`~,......`-...................................../ .............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__ ,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-, .....`=~-,__......`,................................. ...................`=~-,,.,............................... ................................`:,,...........................`..............__ .....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==`` ........................................_..........._,-%.......` ...................................,
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 18:42:22 GMT -5
New aliens aren't doing anything for me. Is the movie going to explain why we never meet these aliens in the Prime Universe? Probably not, but the Prime Universe is full to the teeth with aliens that we only ever meet exactly one time (countless planets of the week, Balok's species from "The Corbomite Manuver", etc.), or species that appeared repeatedly at one point and then never again (the Suliban from Enterprise) or even species we never see but are referred to occasionally (the Tzenkethi on DS9.) Star Trek has always more or less suggested there's more aliens out there then we could ever keep track of. add in the fact that this could be them going into a different quadrant all together. Would seem to mesh with the whole going "beyond".
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Post by starforge on Jun 6, 2016 14:07:50 GMT -5
Probably not, but the Prime Universe is full to the teeth with aliens that we only ever meet exactly one time (countless planets of the week, Balok's species from "The Corbomite Manuver", etc.), or species that appeared repeatedly at one point and then never again (the Suliban from Enterprise) or even species we never see but are referred to occasionally (the Tzenkethi on DS9.) Star Trek has always more or less suggested there's more aliens out there then we could ever keep track of. add in the fact that this could be them going into a different quadrant all together. Would seem to mesh with the whole going "beyond". The Beta Quadrant actually makes sense, given Starfleet's early expansion.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Jun 6, 2016 14:57:33 GMT -5
Is this a good place to say that Star Trek's division of the galaxy into quadrants has never really made sense to me? Is this an actual thing in real-life astronomy that I'm just ill-informed of?
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jun 6, 2016 15:24:57 GMT -5
Is this a good place to say that Star Trek's division of the galaxy into quadrants has never really made sense to me? Is this an actual thing in real-life astronomy that I'm just ill-informed of? I always just read it as each quadrant is a quarter of the galaxy; most of the Federation is in the Alpha Quadrant, with parts of the Beta quadrant either in Federation space or at least explored. Gamma and Delta are both beyond the range that can be practically explored without something like a wormhole.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Jun 6, 2016 15:27:10 GMT -5
Is this a good place to say that Star Trek's division of the galaxy into quadrants has never really made sense to me? Is this an actual thing in real-life astronomy that I'm just ill-informed of? I always just read it as each quadrant is a quarter of the galaxy; most of the Federation is in the Alpha Quadrant, with parts of the Beta quadrant either in Federation space or at least explored. Gamma and Delta are both beyond the range that can be practically explored without something like a wormhole. Maybe I'm just thinking of them wrong. In my head the quadrants are always like pie slices, which means either the Delta or the Gamma should be as accessible from the Alpha as the Beta quadrant is.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 15:42:25 GMT -5
I always just read it as each quadrant is a quarter of the galaxy; most of the Federation is in the Alpha Quadrant, with parts of the Beta quadrant either in Federation space or at least explored. Gamma and Delta are both beyond the range that can be practically explored without something like a wormhole. Maybe I'm just thinking of them wrong. In my head the quadrants are always like pie slices, which means either the Delta or the Gamma should be as accessible from the Alpha as the Beta quadrant is. Well, yeah, pie slices, but each is 1/4 of the entire pie, and most of known space is in 1/4 of it? I think? That's why Voyager was so far away, they were in the quadrant on the other side of the galaxy?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 15:58:31 GMT -5
That's exactly it. The Milky Way, in Trek, is divided into four pie slices: The Federation is a major player, but it's tiny compared to the size of the galaxy. Most sources show the Federation to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 8,000-10,000 light years across by the DS9/VOY/TNG films era. The galaxy as a whole, though, is 100,000-120,000 light years across. The Federation is located somewhere in/near the border between the Alpha and Beta quadrants, I believe. So, even though the Federation is large by Star Trek interstellar government standards, it's still tiny compared to the hugeness of the galaxy as a whole, so a ship like Voyager could be thrown into the Delta quadrant and be a loooooong way from home, despite Delta being "just" on the other side of the Beta quadrant. (First image from Memory Alpha, second from ST Cartography.)
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jun 6, 2016 16:00:31 GMT -5
Maybe I'm just thinking of them wrong. In my head the quadrants are always like pie slices, which means either the Delta or the Gamma should be as accessible from the Alpha as the Beta quadrant is. Well, yeah, pie slices, but each is 1/4 of the entire pie, and most of known space is in 1/4 of it? I think? That's why Voyager was so far away, they were in the quadrant on the other side of the galaxy? There was a map of the Galaxy in one of the spin-off books and the Federation occupied a pretty small part of it, but was close to the division of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants (maybe even with it running through the center), and the other two quadrants much, much further off. The Federation doesn't occupy all of the Alph Quadrant or even all that much of it. Think of it like Egypt bordering Asia and Alaska bordering Asia - they both border the same region but are still incredibly far apart.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jun 6, 2016 16:02:25 GMT -5
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Jun 6, 2016 17:57:06 GMT -5
Ah, that makes more sense. For whatever reason I always thought the known players were basically all of the alpha quadrant, at least by the TNG era.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jun 6, 2016 23:51:59 GMT -5
Kinda thought the Klingon Empire would be bigger than the Romulans.
But yeah, all the maps I've ever seen have the Federation/Romulans/Klingons pretty close to the boundary of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, and closer to the outer border of the galaxy. Not close to the center.
That is why it takes a wormhole to get to the Gamma Quadrant and it would take Voyager decades to get back into Federation territory.
It would be great if this film took the crew into the Delta quadrant, or even to the other side of the Beta quadrant.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jun 7, 2016 6:36:11 GMT -5
So this is a thing. Ah, that makes more sense. For whatever reason I always thought the known players were basically all of the alpha quadrant, at least by the TNG era. Well while we don't know a lot about the Beta Quadrant, the Excelsior was said to be on the border between the Alpha and Beta Quadrant when Praxis blew up in the Undiscovered Country, which suggests that maybe the Klingon Empire is in the Beta Quadrant - or it's at least in the general vicinity. This is confused a little by Deep Space Nine using 'Alpha Quadrant' as a shorthand for all the species generally in or near Federation space. These terms really only became commonly used by the time Deep Space Nine and (later) Voyager were on the air, and mostly because they helped delineate which end of the Star Trek galaxy the two shows were concerned with; you can literally count on one hand the amount of times they came up prior to this (Undiscovered Country is where Alpha and Beta are first mentioned, Delta and Gamma were only name-checked in a season three Next Generation episode called "The Price," aka the one where Troi has sex with a quarter-Betazoid Belgian); they were completely absent from the original series which tended to just talk about the galaxy. add in the fact that this could be them going into a different quadrant all together. Would seem to mesh with the whole going "beyond". Well what we do know is this is unexplored space to them; Starbase Yorktown is kind of on the edge of known space for the Federation and they jet off from it.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jun 11, 2016 0:40:44 GMT -5
That WAS a thing. Now it is an empty black box. Reminiscent of a classic JJ Abrams mystery.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jun 11, 2016 5:45:33 GMT -5
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jun 11, 2016 18:16:02 GMT -5
So..... HP has invented a transporter?
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Post by King Charles’s Butterfly on Jun 27, 2016 11:58:36 GMT -5
By Grabthar’s Hammer, look what species popped up in the new trailer!
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Post by starforge on Jun 27, 2016 15:55:39 GMT -5
The Rihanna song in the new trailer was painful. I am now fearing a second Into Darkness. Star Trek Into Darkness 2: Beyond Darkness was the first draft of the script, I hear.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jun 28, 2016 2:26:06 GMT -5
starforge A script Simon Pegg insists he knows nothing about and didn't see, saying he and his writer collaborator started from scratch. I don't have a problem with the Rihanna song, but it's interesting it doesn't refer to Star Trek at all - it's not exactly Prince singing about Batman, or whoever sung the song at the end of Avatar using a bit of Na'vi. I strongly suspect Rihanna had this single ready anyway and someone got a deal to connect it to the film, and the extent of her promotional role is a photoshop that makes her look a bit like Jaylah. Rihanna may be the bigger Get, but if you were going to get a popular singer to do a single for a new Star Trek movie, I'd have been more interested to see what Janelle Monae would have done.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jul 7, 2016 8:19:15 GMT -5
The movie is already out in Australia, which means that although reviews are embargoed lengthy but non-spoilery takes by nerds are already online. There's also a major decision that is now making the internet rounds which I won't spoil here but which from the sound of it I for one approve of.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jul 7, 2016 10:29:34 GMT -5
Not sure if it's what Douay-Rheims-Challoner was alluding to, but a bunch of places are reporting that this movie introduces Sulu's husband and daughter. So we FINALLY have a canonically gay character.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jul 7, 2016 10:43:08 GMT -5
Ben Grimm Yes, that's what I meant. It's entirely consistent with what little is known about Sulu's personal life - which basically amounts to him having a daughter, Demora, seen in Generations; no other parent was referred to at the time. Presumably the daughter in the upcoming film is also Demora. Sulu has no canonical romances and only his mirror universe version actually flirted with a woman,* a veiled comment about nice muscles on a Klingon woman in The Final Frontier and maybe turning his head during "Mudd's Women" is as textually close to heterosexuality as Sulu has ever been. In other words if one of the main characters of the original cast was gay, Sulu was always the logical choice, independent of George Takei's own homosexuality. (Any of the characters could be bisexual or pansexual or so on, of course.) * Deep Space Nine would later show that mirror universe counterparts may not have the same sexual orientation, at that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 11:06:00 GMT -5
Was just about to post about this here.
I think this is awesome. It's about time there was a canonically gay character, and Sulu makes fine sense both from an in-universe perspective (as noted in Douay-Rheims-Challoner's post) and as a tribute to Takei.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 11:41:35 GMT -5
FUCKING AWESOME!
(Also fucking awesome - Bisexual/pansexual mirror universe Kira.)
But this is great!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 12:22:52 GMT -5
Also, reading some of the reactions from Australia (and filtering them through my mental "do not trust fan reactions on day one too much" screen), I am finding my cautious optimism fueled a bit?
EDIT: By which I mean, I've come to terms with the fact that Paramount has decided that Star Trek movies must be Giant Tentpole Action Movies. I'd just like them to be *good* and Star Trek-y enough for me to enjoy them as Trek movies of a sort. STID failed utterly for me in both of these regards. I'm hoping that Beyond is less idiotically written than STID and has more of what I love about Trek in between the 'splosions.
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Post by King Charles’s Butterfly on Jul 7, 2016 16:16:29 GMT -5
My main worry about the film is now “how well will they execute the whole critical-of-the-Federation thing,” not “how dumb it will be,” which I say is a very good sign.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jul 7, 2016 16:56:10 GMT -5
King Charles’s Butterfly I suspect the general thrust is they tear it down (at least as relating to our heroes) - remove the starship, throw the characters onto a planet with, presumably, aliens from many other worlds (like Sofia Boutella's character) and people from all these diverse backgrounds need to learn to work together for their mutual benefit, which is what the Federation is All About, and Idris Elba presumably has a kind of anti-colonial criticism of Federation expansion - frontier pushing back and all that. So it's something like "It's imperialism, expanding ever outward and pushing us aside!" "No, it's mutual cooperation so everyone wins!" Honestly, this makes me think a little of Consider Phlebas, which is likely going to be an unfair comparison, but I liked that the first book Iain M. Banks published about his own post-scarcity space opera socialist utopia was from the perspective of a warrior who sincerely hated it and was fighting to bring it down.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Jul 9, 2016 16:46:37 GMT -5
Ben Grimm Yes, that's what I meant. It's entirely consistent with what little is known about Sulu's personal life - which basically amounts to him having a daughter, Demora, seen in Generations; no other parent was referred to at the time. Presumably the daughter in the upcoming film is also Demora. Sulu has no canonical romances and only his mirror universe version actually flirted with a woman,* a veiled comment about nice muscles on a Klingon woman in The Final Frontier and maybe turning his head during "Mudd's Women" is as textually close to heterosexuality as Sulu has ever been. In other words if one of the main characters of the original cast was gay, Sulu was always the logical choice, independent of George Takei's own homosexuality. (Any of the characters could be bisexual or pansexual or so on, of course.) * Deep Space Nine would later show that mirror universe counterparts may not have the same sexual orientation, at that. Why is it that Sulu, of all the male main characters, is the only one who never gets a romantic subplot on the show? Is it because a non-white dude getting involved with one of the almost invariably white female guest stars would have been too scandalous in the 1960s? Or did Takei's real-life sexual orientation have something to do with it (given that as I understand it from an interview I heard a couple of years ago that Takei did with On the Media, it was more or less an open secret amongst the cast and others involved with the show that he was gay)? Or is it just that by the time the writers started giving romantic subplots to characters outside of Kirk, Spock, and sorta sometimes McCoy, Chekhov was a character, and Sulu was relegated to mostly being a guy who said things like "Changing course, Captain," (in much the same way that all Uhura usually gets to do is say something like "Hailing frequencies open, Captain" a couple of times an episode) but nothing much more than that most episodes that he was even in?
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jul 9, 2016 17:47:58 GMT -5
I'd like to note I was completely wrong about Rihanna's Sledgehammer, as she both released a Star Trek themed music video - so this may have actually been recorded for the film - and has more than a passing acquaintance with the franchise ( her favourite character is LaForge, as it turns out.) Why is it that Sulu, of all the male main characters, is the only one who never gets a romantic subplot on the show? Is it because a non-white dude getting involved with one of the almost invariably white female guest stars would have been too scandalous in the 1960s? Probably this. Uhura didn't get any actual romantic stories either, she just, you know, got some mildly flirty dialogue and we saw an alien take on the form of a presumably romantic daydream (and this man was a black man who could speak Swahili.) She got a little more in the movies - primarily the suggestion she was going to hook up with Scotty - but no actual romances until the 2009 film.I doubt it. Gene Roddenberry intended Sulu to be sexually flustered by Illia (one version of the story had him embarassed to stand up when he first met her because he had a visible hard-on) and actually that subtext was filmed, but deleted from the movie: Sulu has the disadvantage of being a tertiary character and, yeah, probably a disinclination to explore his romantic life the way the show did not just with Chekov and Scotty, but also recurring character Christine Chapel and (in terms of a teenage crush on her and later her own unresolved feelings for Kirk) with Yeoman Rand.If so, it suggests something for this set of lines written by Walter Koenig for the animated series:
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