Hippo
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Post by Hippo on Jan 6, 2016 1:29:23 GMT -5
We greet 2016 with the prairie dog, as requested by moimoi
Prairie dogs are fuzzy, fat little rodents which live in various parts of the United States and Mexico, if there's places to dig and grasses then you'll find them there. Their Latin name, Cynomys, means "dog mouse". They earn their name because of the barking noise they make as warning signals. There are five different species of prairie dog with the Utah prairie dog earning the least coveted "Endangered" award. and are most closely related to marmots and squirrels so it's in good cute critter company. The prairie dog weighs in at a lightweight 1kg, around 35cm long and is 65% butt like a wombat. Their diets, being herbivorous, mostly consists of grasses and seeds, extending out to flowers in the autumn. The prairie dogs are very sociable, living in large unrelated groups known as "towns" with a network of burrows that can go on for several hundred acres. Generally a given family unit can have upto 25 members per acre. Their burrows are effective at combating the extreme conditions of the outside with keeping a temperature suitable for living in, being much cooler in the summer and warmer during the winter due to how deep the burrows go. Their lifespan is mostly on the short side, only surviving 3 to 5 years in the wild being heavily predated though captive prairie dogs can live for double that.
To complete things, wag your large butts and make a jump-yip display for pics! |
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Post by Sanziana on Jan 6, 2016 9:33:59 GMT -5
I'm guessing Lord Lucan has a fair amount of exposure to them, since they are Canada's most annoying export since Tom Green. I was just eagerly looking for some evidence of a Depression-era plutocracy of geese who advanced protectionist trade policies, took Britain off the gold standard, speculated wildly on the U.S. stock market, and created the Dust Bowl. ha, i always assumed he was english due to his nom de guerre i guess. sneaky canucks. I thought Lord Lucan was Australian. I can't explain why I thought this though. |
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Post by Lord Lucan on Jan 6, 2016 9:49:15 GMT -5
ha, i always assumed he was english due to his nom de guerre i guess. sneaky canucks. I thought Lord Lucan was Australian. I can't explain why I thought this though. Can you explain why that cat is so cute, though? It's so cute! |
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Hippo
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Post by Hippo on Jan 6, 2016 9:58:59 GMT -5
which one? the happy one?
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Hippo
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Post by Hippo on Jan 6, 2016 10:05:20 GMT -5
We don't have prairie dogs where I live but we do have groundhogs! Groundhogs are probably better-known as woodchucks to non-Southerners. They're super-cute, but they do not taste very good. I think they are solitary and territorial rather than living in towns but am not 100% sure. This post reads like I wrote it when I was five, but who cares? I write like a 11 year old doing a biology report. |
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Post by Lord Lucan on Jan 6, 2016 10:26:14 GMT -5
Hippo The happy cat hugging the snowman in Sanziana's profile, yeah. 
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Post by 🔪 silly buns on Jan 6, 2016 10:55:49 GMT -5
Prairie dog barks
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moimoi
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Post by moimoi on Jan 6, 2016 11:58:53 GMT -5
Yaaay! I think the "jump-yip" of a prairie dog is one of the most joyful things I've ever witnessed in a zoo. One question about butts, though: do prairie dogs fatten up seasonally, or is it genetic predisposition (i.e. some species have more junk in the trunk), or does it vary by gender (i.e. the females are thicker than the males for breeding)?
Also, here is a video of a prairie dog facing down a ferret like a boss:
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moimoi
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Post by moimoi on Jan 6, 2016 12:04:25 GMT -5
Look at them! Standing up on their hind legs like a bunch of Rory Calhouns! |
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Post by 🔪 silly buns on Jan 6, 2016 12:08:57 GMT -5
very few know about the fancy prairie dog species  |
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moimoi
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Post by moimoi on Jan 6, 2016 12:10:06 GMT -5
very few know about the fancy prairie dog species Were they behind the Crash of '29? |
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Post by 🔪 silly buns on Jan 6, 2016 12:11:22 GMT -5
Still making me laugh, years later...   |
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Post by 🔪 silly buns on Jan 6, 2016 12:16:12 GMT -5
very few know about the fancy prairie dog species Were they behind the Crash of '29?  ...those fat bottomed, fancy pants prairie dogs! *shakes fist* |
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Hippo
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Post by Hippo on Jan 6, 2016 12:18:49 GMT -5
Yaaay! I think the "jump-yip" of a prairie dog is one of the most joyful things I've ever witnessed in a zoo. One question about butts, though: do prairie dogs fatten up seasonally, or is it genetic predisposition (i.e. some species have more junk in the trunk), or does it vary by gender (i.e. the females are thicker than the males for breeding)? From what I can tell, it is seasonal given the sort of temperature variations and plant life they can eat during the winter months. Sexual dimorphism (the difference in physical appearance between females and males) isn't large, talking around females being a quarter smaller than the males as in the fraction, not a coin. |
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Post by haysoos on Jan 6, 2016 19:28:46 GMT -5
Yaaay! I think the "jump-yip" of a prairie dog is one of the most joyful things I've ever witnessed in a zoo. One question about butts, though: do prairie dogs fatten up seasonally, or is it genetic predisposition (i.e. some species have more junk in the trunk), or does it vary by gender (i.e. the females are thicker than the males for breeding)? From what I can tell, it is seasonal given the sort of temperature variations and plant life they can eat during the winter months. Sexual dimorphism (the difference in physical appearance between females and males) isn't large, talking around females being a quarter smaller than the males as in the fraction, not a coin. Also, a lot depends on whether they are raised in captivity. Prairie dogs raised in zoos and the like have a noticeable tendency towards the rotund. They are so cute that it is virtually impossible not to give them some of whatever you are eating, even if you know you are not supposed to. I use this same explanation to explain my own panda-like physique, so judge its plausibility as you will. For sexual dimorphism, it varies depending on species too. The white-tailed prairie dog ( Cynomys leucurus) is the largest species overall, and has the most seasonal weight change. In June and July, all the males are exhausted and skinny having burned all their energy competing for mates, while all the females are pregnant and putting on weight. A few months later, after the males have gone back to eating 24/7, while the females have been losing weight through lactation until the pups are weaned, dimorphism is at its peak. It should be noted that ranchers, and the types of yahoos prone to joining up with militias holed up on Federal lands have a deep, abiding unnatural and irrational hatred for prairie dogs. They will shoot and poison them wantonly despite, or often even because of legislated protections. I went to a state park in Montana with an archaeological buffalo jump, which also held a prairie dog town. The viewing area for the prairie dog town was completely paved with .22 casings. The prairie dogs seemed to be doing well despite this, either a testment to their remarkable reproductive capacity, or the shitty aim of redneck yahoos. Palaeontologically, the genus Cynomys is known back to the late Pliocene about 2 million years ago. They are quite common as fossils throughout the Pleistocene across the Great Plains, and have been found in areas that are now the Sonoran desert (indicating a much different climate for the area during the last major inter-glacial). Even where their fossils are not found, traces of the burrows of vast prairie dog towns are scattered throughout the plains. I knew one guy who did his PhD studying the remains of one specific fossilized prairie dog town in Wyoming. A river flood had hit the town and preserved almost the whole thing, like a perfect snapshot in time. A prairie dog Pompeii. Unfortunately, as far as I could tell, the preservation didn't really bring about any new discoveries about prairie dogs other than, "Yup, white-tailed prairie dogs from 700,000 years ago were almost exactly the same as the ones we have now". |
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moimoi
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Post by moimoi on Jan 8, 2016 2:23:16 GMT -5
It is mind-blowing that an animal so low on the food chain has such a sophisticated way to communicate. It makes me even more hateful toward rednecks killing these guys for fun:
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Hippo
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Post by Hippo on Jan 8, 2016 2:39:39 GMT -5
Apparently they just hate them because they're so plentiful so make for easy targets and their burrow entrances tend to break horse's legs, so the justification goes anyway.
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moimoi
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Post by moimoi on Jan 8, 2016 11:32:09 GMT -5
Apparently they just hate them because they're so plentiful so make for easy targets and their burrow entrances tend to break horse's legs, so the justification goes anyway. Ugh. But of course, now they're no longer plentiful (as I have learned in my week of watching prairie wildlife documentaries), along with their comrades, the buffalo. If I ran the world, I would institute The Most Dangerous Game to thin the ranks of hunters - make them survive in the wild for 24 hours with a target on their back as condition for keeping a hunting license. |
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Hippo
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Post by Hippo on Jan 8, 2016 11:40:13 GMT -5
Apparently they just hate them because they're so plentiful so make for easy targets and their burrow entrances tend to break horse's legs, so the justification goes anyway. Ugh. But of course, now they're no longer plentiful (as I have learned in my week of watching prairie wildlife documentaries), along with their comrades, the buffalo. If I ran the world, I would institute The Most Dangerous Game to thin the ranks of hunters - make them survive in the wild for 24 hours with a target on their back as condition for keeping a hunting license. One species of Prairie Dog, the Utah Prairie Dog, is now vulnerable but the others are doing pretty well. I might also endorse your The Most Dangerous Game idea though it concerns me about who's hunting and how they got there. |
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Hippo
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Post by Hippo on Jan 8, 2016 11:51:10 GMT -5
Then you would really would have to import hippos into the bayous of Louisiana.
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moimoi
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Post by moimoi on Jan 8, 2016 12:07:01 GMT -5
Ugh. But of course, now they're no longer plentiful (as I have learned in my week of watching prairie wildlife documentaries), along with their comrades, the buffalo. If I ran the world, I would institute The Most Dangerous Game to thin the ranks of hunters - make them survive in the wild for 24 hours with a target on their back as condition for keeping a hunting license. One species of Prairie Dog, the Utah Prairie Dog, is now vulnerable but the others are doing pretty well. I might also endorse your The Most Dangerous Game idea though it concerns me about who's hunting and how they got there. Another doc says they're trying to get the other species listed as threatened, but I suppose that could be politics. I'm not against hunting in general, but I do think that anybody who is willing to take another life and think themselves righteous should have some sense of what their victim goes through. Surviving wouldn't be impossible if the quarry hunters use the same techniques as animals do, i.e. finding shelter, banding together... The important thing would be empathizing and gaining respect for the animals they pursue. If you put a bunch of rednecks out on an open prairie, I imagine it will take them about 15 minutes to realize that even if they manage to dodge bullets long enough to dig a trench (with their hands), exposure or a snakebite will just as likely kill them. Patrick Batman - I'd only have military rifleman doing the 'hunting' and it wouldn't have to be lethal. They could just wound the prey and see if they survive long enough to get medical care. Or fine, use paintballs or some shit. |
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Hippo
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Post by Hippo on Jan 8, 2016 12:16:41 GMT -5
Prairie Dog tastes terrible though.
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Hippo
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Post by Hippo on Jan 8, 2016 12:18:35 GMT -5
One species of Prairie Dog, the Utah Prairie Dog, is now vulnerable but the others are doing pretty well. I might also endorse your The Most Dangerous Game idea though it concerns me about who's hunting and how they got there. Another doc says they're trying to get the other species listed as threatened, but I suppose that could be politics. Possibly, it's usually down to the IUCN to determine just how many members of a given species there are, if their numbers are decreasing in general, if so what's causing it and what to do to mitigate it. There might be some level of politics involved, haysoos usually knows more than I do. |
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moimoi
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Post by moimoi on Jan 8, 2016 12:39:22 GMT -5
I'm not against hunting in general, but I do think that anybody who is willing to take another life and think themselves righteous should have some sense of what their victim goes through. Surviving wouldn't be impossible if the quarry hunters use the same techniques as animals do, i.e. finding shelter, banding together... The important thing would be empathizing and gaining respect for the animals they pursue. If you put a bunch of rednecks out on an open prairie, I imagine it will take them about 15 minutes to realize that even if they manage to dodge bullets long enough to dig a trench (with their hands), exposure or a snakebite will just as likely kill them. I'm sorry, I can't co-sign this. Those strawman "redneck" hunters sound pretty awful, but they don't bear any resemblance to the hunters I knew personally growing up. Subsistence hunting is still a fact of life in much of the rural US, thinking oneself righteous has little to do with avoiding hunger because the food budget didn't stretch far enough this month. I also can't see any rationale for why non-hunting meat-eaters get to be exempt from mortal peril under this scheme, an animal that is hunted suffers orders of magnitude less than one that goes through the factory farm/slaughterhouse system and (I would argue) is less disrespected. Like I said, I have no problem with hunting for subsistence or even for sport. I think anybody who has respect for animals should have license (i.e. the right) to hunt. Really, my only problem is with hunters on the prairie, who can kill easily because the animals (including famously buffalo) have virtually no protection from them. I have no doubt that a deer or grouse hunter in the woods could survive; they'd just have to do what their game do (stay on the run). Killing animals on an open prairie for no particular use is not, in my opinion, hunting. As for meat-eaters, I use the farmhouse principal: if you raised the animal to eat, you can kill it. If the animal is on your property, you can kill it and eat it. If someone else raised the animal for you to eat (i.e. the commercial meat industry) by all means eat it, since not eating it is not going to save the animal's life (someone else will eat it). BUT, have some respect: don't waste food, don't harm animals in general, don't mess with animals' natural habitat, oh and support humane practices in the meat industry. |
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moimoi
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Post by moimoi on Jan 8, 2016 13:17:26 GMT -5
I have to say, I'm still pretty shocked to learn that my family should have been required to stay on the run for survival when Dad was laid off and the food stamps ran out. I think you can be opposed to the indiscriminate sport-killing of non-endangered, cute animals without consigning broad swathes of the world's rural poor to a real-life Hunger Games, but I'm bowing out of the conversation at this point because I have never before been involved in a conversation with someone advocating the legalized killing of the SES group I grew up in, I don't know the protocol here and I can't tell how objective I can successfully remain. I'm sorry Patrick Batman, I didn't mean it that way at all. I certainly didn't suggest that the world's poor should be consigned to a real-life Hunger Games. As you know, my family is from a part of the world where people are lucky to get access to meat however they can. I would never equate your family's situation with what people put up on Youtube. |
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Hippo
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Post by Hippo on Jan 8, 2016 13:29:23 GMT -5
I do like a happy ending.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2016 13:36:02 GMT -5
ah, phooey, it was fun, then it got serious.
sidenote: i was button-holed by a carnivore while working a venue door and asked why i didn't eat meat. aside from my original eating-lamb-omg-i-ate-a-baby epiphany, i said i didn't feel *i* had the right to eat any creature i didn't have the guts to kill myself. in fact i finally quit fish when i realized i could not see myself ever fishing with my dad like i used to.
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moimoi
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Post by moimoi on Jan 8, 2016 13:37:14 GMT -5
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Hippo
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Post by Hippo on Jan 8, 2016 13:43:11 GMT -5
Lord Lucan will be pleased by the cross-species friendships.
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Post by haysoos on Jan 8, 2016 14:18:26 GMT -5
Another doc says they're trying to get the other species listed as threatened, but I suppose that could be politics. Possibly, it's usually down to the IUCN to determine just how many members of a given species there are, if their numbers are decreasing in general, if so what's causing it and what to do to mitigate it. There might be some level of politics involved, haysoos usually knows more than I do. Politics plays a huge roll in the attempted conservation/elimination of prairie dogs. There is more than sufficient objective evidence to support putting all species under protection for conservation - but those redneck yahoos I mentioned earlier will have none of it. In the US, the Department of the Interior found more than enough evidence to warrant listing the black-tailed prairie dog as Vulnerable under the US Endangered Species Act, but Secretary Bruce Babbitt was "precluded from actually listing the species by more urgent concerns". The Secretary of the Interior from 2009-2013, Ken Salazar is a former rancher who when he was a Senator threatened to sue the Fish and Wildlife service to keep the black-tailed prairie dog off the list. So Obama's reign has been no kinder to the environment than Bush's. Salazar appointed Sam Hamilton to head the Fish and Wildlife bureau. While running the Southeast Region between 2004 and 2006, Hamilton's office reviewed nearly 6000 applications to build golf courses, houses, oil wells and roads on endangered species habitat, and rejected exactly one of those applications. Meanwhile, back in prairie dog country in 2004, one day after Fish & Wildlife decided not to add them to the candidate list, South Dakota declared a mass extermination campaign, including the Conata Basin which is also home to one of the only remaining wild black-footed ferret populations. The WildEarth Guardians and Center for Biological Diversity have been successful in suing Fish & Wildlife into enforcing their own statutes, but considering that the current head of Fish & Wildlife, Daniel Ashe supports hunting grizzlies and extending bald eagle blasting permits from 6 years to 30 years (making it more difficult to protest renewals), I'm not sure how effective their considerable efforts will be. I would agree with @patrickbatman that these yahoos are not representative of hunters in general, nor would I call them hunters at all. I work in pest management, and recognize the need to sometimes manage populations of critters in conflict with human activity. I've even been complicit in the death of many fluffy bunnies, beavers, ground squirrels, and coyotes. But the efforts these folks go to in order to shoot and poison prairie dogs goes far beyond pest management. It's tied up with political views of the rights of ranchers to do as they see fit with "their own" land, and those who believe that public lands are not ecosystems to be preserved, but living warehouses for the manufacture of lumber, meat, and paper. But now I've done gone and brought the hole thread down, so here's a cute picture of prairie dogs  |
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