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Post by Desert Dweller on Oct 9, 2017 0:27:33 GMT -5
I've now seen episode 4. (See, it took me typing in one website address to find a stream of this online. CBS is dreaming if they think I'm going to sign up for All Access.)
You guys, I really didn't like this episode. There is so much WTF? stuff happening on this show. Basically, every scene in this episode left me asking "Why is this happening?"
It is really bothering me that there is apparently no one on the writing staff with an attention to detail. And I am no longer just complaining about canon violations. There is stuff that happened in this episode that makes no sense in the context of just the 4 episodes we've seen of this show. It's little stuff, but still. I'm catching this with one viewing of the episodes. Can't the screenwriters put in a bit more effort, here? They had, like, 18 months to write these episodes. (Ha! Just pulled up Zack's review at the Old Country. Glad to see him complaining about the same thing I'm complaining about here.)
Is this show going to kill a character per episode? Why did this character have to die? This was nonsensical. Nothing this character did in this episode made any damn sense.
Lots of stuff in this episode made no sense, really.
Okay, so the entirety of the Klingon scenes felt like a gigantic waste of time. None of this matters! Aaaaaah! This being a prequel is really driving me bonkers now. Everything Voq is saying just doesn't matter. We know it doesn't matter. "Oh, if we win the war".... blah blah blah. We know what happens! There is no suspense here. T'Kuvma is now the Messiah of the Klingons?? LOL, for what, the next year or two? This is 10 years before we meet Kor. This is all bullshit. (Again, why the hell is this a prequel??) At one point Kol appears (which also made no sense, but whatever) and kneels in front of the Albino. I literally said to my computer "You are from the House of Kor. Get up, you pussy." (Yeah, yeah, the later scene explained this, but I have issues with that scene, too.) And the show is presenting Kol like the villain. Except he's from the House of Kor. We know Kor. We love Kor. What is the point of this? And we know what the Albino is talking about is a bunch of bullshit. I know the House of Kor survives for the next 100 or so years. What is the point of all this??
Like, seriously, are we actually IN the Mirror Universe? WTF is even happening here?
Also, please, just have the Klingons speak English. The actors can't speak Klingon convincingly. They all talk at a snail's pace. And no one has any lifelike inflection or cadence. They all speak in this same-y monotone. It is excruciating.
Stamets was at least more palatable in this episode. Lorca was even more awful to him than he was in Episode 3. I'm already tired of their argument. However, this whole tech experiment with replacing warp drive with some sort of spores still seems pointless. We KNOW this doesn't work. And now they basically torture a lifeform to get this to work? I mean.... how long is this going to go on like this? And, btw, that isn't a compelling enough question to sustain my interest in the show.
Also, in this episode they say a planet where they mine 40% of the Federation's dilithium is under Klingon attack. ...... LOL, I mean sure. Not like the Federation would have that planet guarded, or anything. Oh, the Klingons broke through the defenses! Oh nooooooo! What?
Ugh, I didn't like this episode at all. I will say that it felt more like Star Trek than Episode 3 did. It just felt like BAD Star Trek.
PS. I still want to know why Lorca has Saru as his 1st Officer. That seems bizarre.
PPS. This show not being an ensemble show is really starting to be a drag. I'm tired of the solitary viewpoint.
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Hippo
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Post by Hippo on Oct 9, 2017 0:34:49 GMT -5
I think I’ll end up just binging it instead of taking it week by week.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Oct 10, 2017 0:26:48 GMT -5
Believe me, that rant was only about 1/3 of the stuff that made no sense in this episode. I wasn't kidding when I indicated that I found every scene to be nonsensical. It is like they wrote the scenes with the end point in mind, and didn't put any thought into how they got there.
For instance: Why'd Burnham trick Saru into coming to the lab? Couldn't she just ask him to come down there? Could he maybe drop by unannounced? So, instead of the scene revealing how Burnham realizes the creature is nonthreatening, the scene instead is about how Burnham is apparently just a jerk who used Saru.
How about this one: Stamets was best buddies with the guy on the Glenn who was also researching the spores. But Stamets had no idea how his buddy was getting it to work. Even though the point of splitting them up was that the ships were to have two teams working on the issue in order to speed up the research. So, why were they not sharing info?
Why did Lorca just fly to the planet being attacked, wait until the last second and then vanish? Technically, they wouldn't even know if what they did was successful, since they left before attack ended. And also, hey folks on the planet? If you actually needed aid after you were attacked, well too bad. That ship is already gone.
I can do one of these for every scene, I think. Culminating in the final scene, which somehow manages to imply Starfleet scavenged the Shenzhou for the captain's personal belongings, but left in it the dilithium processor. WTF?
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Post by Lt. Broccoli on Oct 10, 2017 10:30:12 GMT -5
Ho ho ho, Elon Musk is one of the great scientists of history. This show.
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Post by Generic Poster on Oct 10, 2017 13:06:43 GMT -5
Ho ho ho, Elon Musk is one of the great scientists of history. This show. At least they follow the "two real figures plus one made up one" formula of TOS. |
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Oct 10, 2017 14:26:10 GMT -5
So this follows the “promising opening but then incredibly dumb” formula of Trek 09, but for an entire season?
I haven’t had time to keep up and now I don’t think I will.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Oct 12, 2017 1:25:15 GMT -5
I am sincerely hoping Episode 5 will be more coherent. I didn't find this many nonsensical plot holes in Episodes 1-3.
I'm still giving it a chance. TNG and DS9 were pretty weak in Season 1. DS9 had an entire episode about O'Brien and Bashir going to some backwards Bajoran village which worshiped a Cloud Monster.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 19:20:51 GMT -5
I am sincerely hoping Episode 5 will be more coherent. I didn't find this many nonsensical plot holes in Episodes 1-3. I'm still giving it a chance. TNG and DS9 were pretty weak in Season 1. DS9 had an entire episode about O'Brien and Bashir going to some backwards Bajoran village which worshiped a Cloud Monster. But it was an O'Brien and Bashir episode though, even at the worst it is still O'Brien and Bashir. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Oct 14, 2017 0:46:38 GMT -5
I am sincerely hoping Episode 5 will be more coherent. I didn't find this many nonsensical plot holes in Episodes 1-3. I'm still giving it a chance. TNG and DS9 were pretty weak in Season 1. DS9 had an entire episode about O'Brien and Bashir going to some backwards Bajoran village which worshiped a Cloud Monster. But it was an O'Brien and Bashir episode though, even at the worst it is still O'Brien and Bashir. I mean true. But what I'm saying is that it made no sense. Rather like Episode 4 of DSC. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Oct 16, 2017 0:31:23 GMT -5
I've now seen episode 5. This episode was a lot better than episode 4. It didn't have the gaping plot holes and nonsensical story actions that episode 4 had. Thank God.
The characters were featured a lot more strongly in this episode. I now don't hate all the characters! Yay! This episode finally did the character development work that should have happened in the pilot. Or the 2nd pilot, which was episode 3.
This episode also felt like a traditional Star Trek episode. It was likely the Trekiest episode so far.
I still have no idea why this is a prequel, and I don't understand the Klingon plotline at all. But at least the script didn't leave me asking these questions during every scene.
Too bad Lorca and the new guy didn't kill Mudd. They would have done Kirk and all of us a favor.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Oct 16, 2017 0:46:12 GMT -5
I've now seen episode 5. This episode was a lot better than episode 4. It didn't have the gaping plot holes and nonsensical story actions that episode 4 had. Thank God. The characters were featured a lot more strongly in this episode. I now don't hate all the characters! Yay! This episode finally did the character development work that should have happened in the pilot. Or the 2nd pilot, which was episode 3. This episode also felt like a traditional Star Trek episode. It was likely the Trekiest episode so far. I still have no idea why this is a prequel, and I don't understand the Klingon plotline at all. But at least the script didn't leave me asking these questions during every scene. Too bad Lorca and the new guy didn't kill Mudd. They would have done Kirk and all of us a favor. Is Mudd as shitty as he is in TOS/TAS and also is there any good reason why he's in DSC? |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Oct 16, 2017 1:28:06 GMT -5
I've now seen episode 5. This episode was a lot better than episode 4. It didn't have the gaping plot holes and nonsensical story actions that episode 4 had. Thank God. The characters were featured a lot more strongly in this episode. I now don't hate all the characters! Yay! This episode finally did the character development work that should have happened in the pilot. Or the 2nd pilot, which was episode 3. This episode also felt like a traditional Star Trek episode. It was likely the Trekiest episode so far. I still have no idea why this is a prequel, and I don't understand the Klingon plotline at all. But at least the script didn't leave me asking these questions during every scene. Too bad Lorca and the new guy didn't kill Mudd. They would have done Kirk and all of us a favor. Is Mudd as shitty as he is in TOS/TAS and also is there any good reason why he's in DSC? Well, he didn't have the ugly misogyny of TOS. So that was a plus. But he was trading information with the Klingons which got Starfleet prisoners tortured and killed in order to save his own skin. So.... actually maybe kinda worse? There was certainly no reason for him to be in this particular episode of DSC. Seemed pretty fan service-y. There was a lot of fan service in this episode, to be honest. We got an on-screen mention of Christopher Pike. And learned that apparently there were no great Starfleet Captains between Archer and Robert April. But there were 3 more great captains between Robert April and now. I am dubious about this. (Oh, and the best Starfleet captains were all human, also.) Since there really is no way Harry Mudd in specific would be vitally important to any galaxy-spanning war, I am assuming there won't ever really be a good reason he's on the show. I'm sure the reason is "We need a civilian. Who do we know from TOS? Yeah, let's bring him on." It actually didn't annoy me as much as I thought it would. As I said, though, I did still wish Lorca and/or the new guy would have killed him. Even though I know that can't happen. Anyway, now that we've met the new guy, Tyler?, we finally know everyone who's listed in the main credits! This episode greatly benefited from not being so laser focused on Burnham. It was very helpful to spend scenes with other characters. Jason Isaacs is still doing a great job, especially since he is being given some really clunky dialogue. Glad the show has such a good actor in that role. |
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Post by Lt. Broccoli on Oct 16, 2017 10:00:07 GMT -5
Mudd is alright. With a beard, Rainn Wilson looks like Mark Hamill. Robert April is a fun touch too.
But they said "fuck" twice! I am scandalized!
(I have this mental image of Data saying "fuck yeah" in First Contact but apparently I am thinking of when he says "oh shit" when the ship crashes in Generations)
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Oct 16, 2017 18:36:09 GMT -5
Is Mudd as shitty as he is in TOS/TAS and also is there any good reason why he's in DSC? Well, he didn't have the ugly misogyny of TOS. So that was a plus. But he was trading information with the Klingons which got Starfleet prisoners tortured and killed in order to save his own skin. So.... actually maybe kinda worse? Oh cool, so he's a war criminal in addition to being a massive misogynist? What a cool cool dude. What a lovable rogue and rascal. I can totally see why people would adore his character and keep wanting him to be in more things. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Oct 17, 2017 0:02:48 GMT -5
Reading through the reviews (or listening to a couple podcast reviews) of this episode was a strange experience. A lot of the early reviews thought this episode was as pointless and full of plot holes as the previous episode. I began to realize that some people hadn't caught on to what was happening in the plot with Lorca and new guy. I think people have been conditioned to believe that big plot holes and nonsensical story actions are due to lazy writing. Which I don't blame them for because we all saw Episode 4. But, in this episode the "WTF, why is this happening?" stuff was mostly intentional, as the writers attempted to pull off some sleight of hand. Pulling off this trick wasn't as impressive as it should have been since most people who didn't notice the trick are now complaining about the stupid plot holes and lazy writing. There was one bit of info dropped about Lorca's past that is puzzling to me. This was dropped like it was some major reveal, but I'm not entirely sure what it really says about Lorca that we didn't already know. And further, it is something that if you think about it too much, starts to unravel and make less and less sense. Also, the scene when Lorca is kidnapped didn't really make a lot of sense, completely unrelated to the trick the writers were trying to pull off in that story. I still have some major fundamental issues with the entire setting and structure of the show. Stuff keeps happening because "it's really important to the war", but the show gives us zero scope of the war. We don't know any of these people or care about them. Further, we already know this basically ends in a stalemate because we've seen other Star Trek. We don't know who's winning, we don't know the current state of Starfleet, we don't have any sense of anything that is happening or why. It'd be like starting DS9 in Season 6. What made DS9's war story work is that they took the time to develop all the characters, and lay down a lot of plotting re: political systems of various species before the war started. DSC just drops you into the war, but doesn't explain anything that is happening except to tell you "it's really important". Finally, I wish I could explain my thoughts about the final scene. Which is both sort of intriguing and also incredibly stupid. Like, it hints at a real story direction for the show - finally - that might resolve some of the biggest structural issues with it being a prequel, but it is done in one of the stupidest ways possible. Spoiler below: So, everyone watching is asking how this can be a prequel if they are developing this fancy new propulsion system that we never see again in any subsequent Trek. In this last episode they are finally successful in getting this to work when one of the crew members essentially plugs himself into the navigation system of the ship and lets it run off his own brain AFTER injecting himself with alien DNA that temporarily rewrites his DNA. (Yeah, I know. Just go with it.) This seems like it almost kills him.
Afterwards, he's back in his quarters and in the bathroom getting ready for bed. He stares at himself in the mirror and walks away - but his mirror image stays behind for several seconds, smirking.
Fans are speculating that the experiments they are doing with propulsion has somehow linked them to the Mirror Universe. Which is revealed LITERALLY THROUGH A MIRROR. I swear, I still get the strong feeling that the people writing this show don't really know a lot about Star Trek. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Oct 22, 2017 22:42:27 GMT -5
Episode 6 thoughts
1. I am growing to hate what this show is doing to its female characters. Is anyone in the writers room paying attention to this? It is starting to feel like the show is purposefully trying to punish powerful female characters.
2. I'm not sure what the show is trying to do with Sarek is really adding anything to his character. I don't think he needed this stuff to make him interesting. Further, if his real goal was what he was accused of in this episode, then in the long run, it mostly worked. So, why would he carry so much bitterness toward Spock? Finally, why is DSC messing with this? I'm not very comfortable with it trying to explain Spock/Sarek backstory, even tangentially like this. Joe Menosky, you don't get a pass just b/c you worked on TNG/VOY
3. No comment from Lorca about what happened with the spore drive last week?
4. Has Stamets actually been swapped with Mirror Stamets? (assuming the show will be answering this one.)
5. They literally have t-shirts that say "DISCO" on them.
6. If Culber isn't the CMO, who is? And why is Culber treating the most high priority patient?
7. The writers and producers say Burnham is the main character, but they are in danger of making Lorca significantly more interesting. This is a great character for Jason Isaacs to play.
8. It would be really nice to get some information about the state of the galaxy at this point. The state of the war. What's happening? Does anyone know? Why are we talking to Admirals if they aren't going to give us this info?
9. Apparently these writers think "Serialization" means that the audience gets to sit around for weeks and weeks waiting for characters to figure stuff out. This is not too enjoyable.
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Post by Lt. Broccoli on Oct 23, 2017 16:26:46 GMT -5
I just realized Admiral Cornwell is played by the woman who was Christina Applegate's nemesis in Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead. I think of her whenever I see the word "personnel".
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Oct 23, 2017 17:53:28 GMT -5
So I’ve heard a bit about this show through the grapevine and the Discovery is powered by yeast or something? Looks like my decision to sit out was a good one.
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Post by Lt. Broccoli on Oct 23, 2017 18:07:51 GMT -5
So I’ve heard a bit about this show through the grapevine and the Discovery is powered by yeast or something? Looks like my decision to sit out was a good one. Shrooms, man. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 18:15:40 GMT -5
Seth McFarlane is making the best Star Trek show on the air right now, and that is including the fact that Brannon Braga is on staff. It is truly a time to be alive.
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Hippo
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Post by Hippo on Oct 23, 2017 22:54:32 GMT -5
Darkest timeline, man!
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Post by Desert Dweller on Oct 24, 2017 2:01:48 GMT -5
So I’ve heard a bit about this show through the grapevine and the Discovery is powered by yeast or something? Looks like my decision to sit out was a good one. Yeah, powered by fungus, actually. I'm still a bit baffled as to why the writers made this a central feature of the show. While making it a prequel. Because now they have to spend a lot of time explaining how it works and why it helps. But eventually they'll have to explain why we never heard about this ever again. Which seems a lot of effort for something that doesn't seem particularly necessary. It also implies that the Federation can't beat the Klingons without what is essentially magic. Which seems a little silly. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 6:55:59 GMT -5
So I’ve heard a bit about this show through the grapevine and the Discovery is powered by yeast or something? Looks like my decision to sit out was a good one. Yeah, powered by fungus, actually. I'm still a bit baffled as to why the writers made this a central feature of the show. While making it a prequel. Because now they have to spend a lot of time explaining how it works and why it helps. But eventually they'll have to explain why we never heard about this ever again. Which seems a lot of effort for something that doesn't seem particularly necessary. It also implies that the Federation can't beat the Klingons without what is essentially magic. Which seems a little silly. I feel like this is only made more awkward by the announcement that the show is getting a second season. The longer DSC continues, the more implausible it is that we have never heard of the magical spore drive throughout the rest of Trek history. If the spore drive keeps being a central element of the ship/story in Season 2, it's going to be even more awkward that we've never heard of it before, so does Season 2 keep the ship and crew and ditch the spore drive and somehow explain why it is covered up throughout the rest of time? This entire problem, as you've pointed out, wouldn't be a problem if the show wasn't explicitly stated to be a prime timeline prequel. |
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Ben Grimm
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Post by Ben Grimm on Oct 24, 2017 7:47:51 GMT -5
I think I remember hearing Fuller's proposal was going to keep jumping through time - starting out pre-TOS, but ending up post-Nemesis. I wonder if the big plot, as it was, was introducing this spore drive, having it fail at first, slowly be developed over several decades, and then having it finally be developed into something usable in the post-Nemesis era. When Fuller left, this plotline that was supposed to take 100+ years to play out became a B-plot in a single era.
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Post by liebkartoffel on Oct 24, 2017 14:29:27 GMT -5
Yeah, powered by fungus, actually. I'm still a bit baffled as to why the writers made this a central feature of the show. While making it a prequel. Because now they have to spend a lot of time explaining how it works and why it helps. But eventually they'll have to explain why we never heard about this ever again. Which seems a lot of effort for something that doesn't seem particularly necessary. It also implies that the Federation can't beat the Klingons without what is essentially magic. Which seems a little silly. I feel like this is only made more awkward by the announcement that the show is getting a second season. The longer DSC continues, the more implausible it is that we have never heard of the magical spore drive throughout the rest of Trek history. If the spore drive keeps being a central element of the ship/story in Season 2, it's going to be even more awkward that we've never heard of it before, so does Season 2 keep the ship and crew and ditch the spore drive and somehow explain why it is covered up throughout the rest of time? This entire problem, as you've pointed out, wouldn't be a problem if the show wasn't explicitly stated to be a prime timeline prequel. I'm increasingly convinced we're watching the origin story of Section 31, and the reason we never hear about the spore drive again is because it's, well, a secret. EDIT: I was looking up Section 31 on Memory Alpha, and apparently they cover Section 31 in Enterprise, which I've never watched because c'mon. Anyway, whatever. I think Section 31 is involved. |
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Oct 24, 2017 15:50:48 GMT -5
As someone whose Trek fandom was propelled in large part by ship nerdery this all sounds awful and I really think the only way one can reconcile Discovery with canon is the same way that we reconcile Star Trek V with canon—just pretending it doesn’t exist.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 22:05:26 GMT -5
As someone whose Trek fandom was propelled in large part by ship nerdery this all sounds awful and I really think the only way one can reconcile Discovery with canon is the same way that we reconcile Star Trek V with canon—just pretending it doesn’t exist. I would much rather watch Star Trek V over this. There is row row row your boat, and also the first scene looks really cool. |
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Post by sarapen on Oct 26, 2017 8:08:30 GMT -5
So like 300 years from now the Aga Khan Museum is relocated from Toronto to Vulcan. I guess aliens have a thing for Toronto architecture since the Iconians in TNG had a portal direct to City Hall. Joke's on them, most of the buildings in the city look like shit. Those condos in the background are more representative of what's what in the city. |
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Ben Grimm
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Post by Ben Grimm on Oct 26, 2017 8:31:52 GMT -5
So like 300 years from now the Aga Khan Museum is relocated from Toronto to Vulcan. I guess aliens have a thing for Toronto architecture since the Iconians in TNG had a portal direct to City Hall. Joke's on them, most of the buildings in the city look like shit. Those condos in the background are more representative of what's what in the city. That's supposed to be Vulcan? The sky is the wrong color. |
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Post by Generic Poster on Oct 26, 2017 8:40:50 GMT -5
As someone whose Trek fandom was propelled in large part by ship nerdery this all sounds awful and I really think the only way one can reconcile Discovery with canon is the same way that we reconcile Star Trek V with canon—just pretending it doesn’t exist. I would much rather watch Star Trek V over this. There is row row row your boat, and also the first scene looks really cool. Plus, Spock shoots and kills God! |
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