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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2019 16:29:11 GMT -5
My Official Soulsborne rankings (excluding Demon's Souls and Dark Souls II. Also note that I would give all the games listed here at least a 9/10)
1. Dark Souls: Basically a perfect 1-to-1 recreation of a 2D metroidvania, but as a 3D action RPG. With sections of the map constantly interlocking and new abilities/items allowing you to further explore old areas. Excellent atmosphere and sense of adventure. Basically what Mario 64 was to the side-scrolling Mario games.
2. Dark Souls III: Best bosses in the series, with many that have some kind of gimmick that require more than just "attack large thing." More of an A-to-B adventure than exploring a giant area that constantly loops back on itself, but that's fine since the individual areas are plenty memorable and often have self-contained branching paths for you to explore. Also somehow manages to be a satisfying sequel to the original Dark Souls' themes and narrative.
3. Sekiro: Best moment-to-moment gameplay in FromSoft's catalogue. Seemingly has the least amount to actually explore out of all these games, but what's there is focused and satisfying to play through. Big points for having a final boss who is both the most difficult enemy in the game and probably the best boss in the entire series.
4. Bloodborne: Not a big fan of most of the bosses in this game. While they're all interesting visually, most of them don't evolve much past "attack large thing." Bosses being so large it's hard to focus on what they're actually doing unless you're forty feet away is a detriment to the overall experience. Other than that, Bloodborne has primo atmosphere, and exceptional map design. Probably the best depiction of Lovecraftian horror in any video game.
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Invisible Goat
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Post by Invisible Goat on Jun 2, 2019 18:30:26 GMT -5
The Moon Presence has been slain and humanity's next childhood has begun. Really loved the last couple hours. I hated Nightmare Frontier so I was dreading Nightmare of Mensis thinking it would be something similar but that ended up being one of my favorite areas. Ascending that final castle as it got more and more creepy, culminating in that weird lullaby boss theme for the Wet Nurse, so cool.
I guess I was surprised at how...easy it was? I went in prepared to spend hours banging my head against the wall against the bosses, but the only ones that took me more than 5 tries were Father Gascoigne (9) and Darkbeast Paarl (6). Maybe I just have an unexpected talent for this game in particular, I certainly never considered myself good at games before. I think I'm going to immediately restart it and try to do different things/use different weapons (I relied really heavily on Saw Cleaver and Ludwig's Holy Blade this time) and do the DLC. I was initially too scared because I heard it was harder than the main game but if the trend continues I guess I should be okay at it.
Best bosses: Gascoigne, Logarius, Gehrman, Blood-starved Beast
Worst: Celestial Emissary, Rom, The One Reborn. I beat Micolash on the first try but if I had to do it again I could imagine hating him.
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patbat
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Post by patbat on Jun 3, 2019 9:19:04 GMT -5
Played Bloodborne pretty much all day yesterday (aside from cooking meals) and just went on a fucking tear through the DLC and Pthumeru Ihyll. Finally killing the boss of the DLC felt really good. Now the only things left alive are the final boss of Pthumeru Ihyll (probably going to feel guilty about her) and the final two bosses of the main game.
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Jun 4, 2019 7:36:43 GMT -5
Played Bloodborne pretty much all day yesterday (aside from cooking meals) and just went on a fucking tear through the DLC and Pthumeru Ihyll. Finally killing the boss of the DLC felt really good. Now the only things left alive are the final boss of Pthumeru Ihyll (probably going to feel guilty about her) and the final two bosses of the main game. The last time I played through The Old Hunters I beat the Orphan on the first try and then literally sat there and shook for two minutes. |
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Post by patbat on Jun 4, 2019 8:34:41 GMT -5
First-tried the final chalice dungeon boss and poor old Gerhman, then warped out before fighting the final final final boss so I could test out the Burial Blade. Also, I...don't think I'm ready for this game to end?
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Post by LazBro on Jun 4, 2019 9:16:12 GMT -5
I find it really hard to rank the games, because I too would rate them all so highly, at least 9/10, that it almost doesn't matter. Even the black sheep, Dark Souls II, finds an endearing charm in all its weirdness. But here goes:
1. Bloodborne. No surprise there. Bloodborne is the apotheosis of From Software's approach to storytelling, and indeed a big part of what earns it this spot for me is the fun of digging into the game's lore with the help of YouTube's many excellent Souls channels. I can't separate researching the lore outside the game from the fun of actually playing it. It's part and parcel, and it's the best the Soulsborne games have ever been. Aside from that, I do also think Bloodborne is the most fun game to play, just inching out Sekiro's speed with its superior enemy variety, its more rewarding RPG elements (I like XP and leveling stats and all that), its hyper-aggresive combat, and its baby bear relationship with challenge.
2. Dark Souls III. A profound course correction after II's whackadoodle-ry, Dark Souls III tells the most compelling story specifically in the Dark Souls series, from which it benefits having the legacy of the original Dark Souls to grow and complete. It feels final in a dramatic and affecting way. It also offers one brilliantly designed level after another, which make up for their lack of grand interconnected-ness - the Dark Souls signature - by offering a similar experience in microcosm over and over again. DSIII feels massive in a way that others don't.
3. Sekiro. I like the story, it looks great, and all that, but Sekiro ranks this high for one reason: it is fucking FUN! The concept of the combat system really worried me at first. "Wait," I thought, "So now the entire system is based on parrying? The one thing I never got gud at in the other games?! Fuck me!" But in practice it's smooth and natural and makes you feel good about yourself. I don't mean this as an aspersion, but Sekiro is like Peggle or Candy Crush. It's most basic repetitive action, deathblowing a dude, feels so goddamn good, and you can do it literally hundreds of times over the course of the game and not get tired of it. On top of that, it's also a terrific 3D action platformer, more satisfying than the likes of (older) God of War and Devil May Cry. The reuse of so many bosses and minibosses is a bummer, but that is just about the only smudge on an otherwise flawless game.
4. Dark Souls. We all know that Dark Souls is a masterpiece, and nothing can match the experience of unwrapping its world design the first time through. That's a given, so instead I'll focus on why I've ranked it so low. It's actually kind of simple: it's not as much fun to play. What was revelatory in its day has been done so much better since. Even leaving out Bloodborne and Sekiro, if I crave a true Dark Souls experience, I would rather play DSIII, because it feels so much better in the hands. Faster, more agile, and with a wider slate of different enemies. Even the remaster, which is a good product even if it's not a necessary one, feels so slow and sluggish to play compared to everything listed above. And the boss fights, cool as they look, are embarrassing in retrospect. Obvious telegraphs, canyon-wide dodge windows. That level design, tho.
5. Demon's Souls. This game is a frustrating amalgam of Soulsborne at its very best and very worst. For everything about it that's brilliant - the design, combat and progression of Boletaria Palace, the look of the Nexus, the story of Maiden Astrea, the utter nightmare of the Tower of Latria's 2nd area - there's also something equally bad or worse - the pointless 3rd areas of most worlds, pretty much ALL of the Shrine of Storms and Valley of Defilement. And that's not even to get into the dumb as hell early installment weirdness, like the obtuse weapon upgrade progression, the crystal lizards that don't respawn until you kill a boss, or the weight limit on your INVENTORY. In short, Demon's Souls is a great game, but by the standard of the series, it has the most suck.
6. Dark Souls II. The black sheep must ride bitch though, because it is the only game of the six that doesn't feel entirely comfortable to play. Even if Dark Souls and Demon's Souls are slow, they are still solid. They feel right, I just want them to move faster. Dark Souls II doesn't feel right. You know it almost as soon as you start playing it. The roll doesn't go quite the direction you expect, the animation feels too sluggish and strange, hit boxes are whack, you lack agility in tight spaces, like you're operating on a plane of 8 cardinal directions instead of 360 movement. (You're not, that's just how it feels at first.) You can and should get used to it though, because DSII has pleasures to offer, including a HUGE lineup of different areas to explore, a really great story, and some of the best DLC the franchise has ever offered. And as I stated up top, it's endearingly weird. Like it's the kind of game where you can find an elevator in a poison swampland that leads to, you guessed it, a lava castle, and you kind of just have to go with it.
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patbat
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Post by patbat on Jun 4, 2019 9:36:08 GMT -5
I still haven't played Sekiro, mainly due to price at this point (although the intimidation factor is still high). I'd rank the three standalone games highest--probably Dark Souls first, as it's the only game I've ever taken the trouble to plat, although I now believe that Bloodborne (which I would rate second) has surpassed it as the overall most elegant example of the genre, then Demon's Souls at third due to intense nostalgia (this was the first in the series I played and it really got its hooks in). Dark Souls III would be next, as it at least feels solid, looks beautiful, and has interesting bosses, which are three things it has over Dark Souls II (which is still a really good game, and possibly has the best PVP scene to this day).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2019 9:48:58 GMT -5
5. Demon's Souls. This game is a frustrating amalgam of Soulsborne at its very best and very worst. For everything about it that's brilliant - the design, combat and progression of Boletaria Palace, the look of the Nexus, the story of Maiden Astrea, the utter nightmare of the Tower of Latria's 2nd area - there's also something equally bad or worse - the pointless 3rd areas of most worlds, pretty much ALL of the Shrine of Storms and Valley of Defilement. And that's not even to get into the dumb as hell early installment weirdness, like the obtuse weapon upgrade progression, the crystal lizards that don't respawn until you kill a boss, or the weight limit on your INVENTORY. In short, Demon's Souls is a great game, but by the standard of the series, it has the most suck. Semi-related, but it took me at least a quarter of the way into Dark Souls to realize that the weight limit only applied to items my character currently had equipped. Why else have a big stash for your items, I thought. |
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Jun 4, 2019 10:02:29 GMT -5
5. Demon's Souls. This game is a frustrating amalgam of Soulsborne at its very best and very worst. For everything about it that's brilliant - the design, combat and progression of Boletaria Palace, the look of the Nexus, the story of Maiden Astrea, the utter nightmare of the Tower of Latria's 2nd area - there's also something equally bad or worse - the pointless 3rd areas of most worlds, pretty much ALL of the Shrine of Storms and Valley of Defilement. And that's not even to get into the dumb as hell early installment weirdness, like the obtuse weapon upgrade progression, the crystal lizards that don't respawn until you kill a boss, or the weight limit on your INVENTORY. In short, Demon's Souls is a great game, but by the standard of the series, it has the most suck. Semi-related, but it took me at least a quarter of the way into Dark Souls to realize that the weight limit only applied to items my character currently had equipped. Why else have a big stash for your items, I thought. Oh totally. Since I started with Bloodborne and then played Dark Souls, I wasn't familiar with the encumbrance system at all, so when I bought some good armor from the Undead Burg merchant and then started fat rolling, I was like, "What the fuck is this?!"
You have to buy the storage crate, right? Yeah, I think they put it in there just because you can't sell items until about halfway through the game, and people would want a way to lighten their menus. Which, bad design, guys. Just let us sell shit.
In Demon's Souls you do have an inventory limit, so you have to dump all your stuff with a vendor in the Nexus (the hub, like the Hunter's Dream) before you head out. I mean, I get it. It's a way of forcing the player to make choices rather than bringing EVERYTHING and customizing their build minute to minute. "Oh, poison? Better put on these pants for this room" and on and on. But it's too much of a hassle, and considering that this mechanic never came back, I'd say From Software agrees.
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Invisible Goat
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Post by Invisible Goat on Jun 4, 2019 10:43:49 GMT -5
Played Bloodborne pretty much all day yesterday (aside from cooking meals) and just went on a fucking tear through the DLC and Pthumeru Ihyll. Finally killing the boss of the DLC felt really good. Now the only things left alive are the final boss of Pthumeru Ihyll (probably going to feel guilty about her) and the final two bosses of the main game. The last time I played through The Old Hunters I beat the Orphan on the first try and then literally sat there and shook for two minutes. That was my experience with Martyr Logarius. I had heard he was arguably the toughest boss in the (main) game so when I beat him on the third try I was really jazzed about it. Also the fight was so fast-paced and intense. I loved his boss arena too, so unique. |
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patbat
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Post by patbat on Jun 4, 2019 14:54:59 GMT -5
Most fun weapon in the game IMO
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Post by patbat on Jun 4, 2019 16:10:47 GMT -5
Darkstalker Kaathe DESTROYS Lord Gwyn with FACTS and LOGIC
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Jun 5, 2019 8:46:18 GMT -5
The last time I played through The Old Hunters I beat the Orphan on the first try and then literally sat there and shook for two minutes. That was my experience with Martyr Logarius. I had heard he was arguably the toughest boss in the (main) game so when I beat him on the third try I was really jazzed about it. Also the fight was so fast-paced and intense. I loved his boss arena too, so unique. Logarius was definitely the hardest boss for me my first time through, DLC excluded. Took me 10+ tries, and I remember I had to stop to farm vials twice while attempting him. Now he's pretty easy, because I've since realized that you can interrupt his transition to his 2nd phase with a backstab. He'll still use some of his phase 2 attacks, but he'll keep his phase 1 speed and level of aggression to the end. Like a totally different fight. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2019 18:59:15 GMT -5
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Invisible Goat
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Post by Invisible Goat on Jun 9, 2019 20:31:19 GMT -5
I've beaten the first 7 bosses on my BB replay and only one (Blood-starved Beast) has killed me even once (though he somehow kicked my ass even worse than the first time). Level 54 so almost ready for the DLC I think.
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Jun 12, 2019 8:09:31 GMT -5
Really disappointed that From is going open world with Elden Ring, but presuming the combat is still up to snuff, and why wouldn't it be, I'll still be eager to see what it's all about.
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Baron von Costume
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Post by Baron von Costume on Jun 13, 2019 17:16:21 GMT -5
I am now playing DS2, I am enjoying it but still mystified about how shitty they are at PC porting. I mean, at least it's mostly bad in different ways from DS1 so they maybe learned something but yeesh.
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Invisible Goat
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Post by Invisible Goat on Jun 16, 2019 12:21:12 GMT -5
God the Bloodborne DLC is fucking punishing. I managed to clear the first area (most of it at least, no way can I handle the gatling gun guy in the blood cave), but I didn't manage to level up once because I kept losing my echoes. The first time through I was consoling myself by figuring none of the hunters would respawn, like how it was in the main game, but nope you have to deal with them every time.
Ludwig absolutely kicked my ass 6 or 7 times without me ever getting to his second phase, but I did feel like I was getting more of a feel for him at least, so I summoned Valtr to give it a real go and immediately won fairly easily. His second phase I basically just stood at his feet and traded blows with him so it wasn't as fun as the first one, but maybe the best boss of the game so far still. Though I did like Logarius even more the 2nd time.
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Invisible Goat
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Post by Invisible Goat on Jun 19, 2019 20:21:25 GMT -5
Completely stuck on Laurence. Hardest boss of the game and not in a fun way. Just overpowered. I don't think I've even managed to hit him in his second phase without getting killed immediately.
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Invisible Goat
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Post by Invisible Goat on Jun 19, 2019 22:11:39 GMT -5
That's a "0" under blood vials for the record. That was awesome  |
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Invisible Goat
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Post by Invisible Goat on Jun 22, 2019 17:40:42 GMT -5
Lady Maria of the Astral Clocktower kick me in the nuts please
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Jun 22, 2019 18:11:14 GMT -5
Lady Maria of the Astral Clocktower kick me in the nuts please Lady Maria is an interesting case for me. She's widely regarded as one of the best bosses in FromSoft history, and I can't really disagree, but across the several times I've played through this DLC, I have never lost to her. Not once. Even my first time through I beat her first try.
Let us know when you get to the orphan. For sure one of my favorite bosses across all Souls.
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Post by LazBro on Jun 22, 2019 18:20:24 GMT -5
In Sekiro news, I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaate the Folding Screen Monkeys. I've watched so many strat videos on them, but I can never pull it off, and I end up chasing the monkeys around for minutes. Especially the green one. I really, really, really hate this boss.
People complain about "gimmick" bosses in Souls games, like the Ancient Dragon and Yhorm DS3, or the Bed of Chaos in DS1, but the monkeys are my least favorite by far. They're a free attack upgrade, but I still hate them.
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Invisible Goat
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Post by Invisible Goat on Jun 23, 2019 20:04:04 GMT -5
Well I've tried Orphan of Kos 20 times now (previous high was 11 with Laurence), managed to get to his second phase 3 times, and managed to actually hit him in that second phase once. I'm very discouraged. Even in the first phase I feel like I have a handle on his attacks/movements, but then he'll just randomly add another slam or swipe at the end of one of his standard combos and have me immediately on the ropes. Not fun. Too hard.
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patbat
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Post by patbat on Jun 24, 2019 13:09:49 GMT -5
Well I've tried Orphan of Kos 20 times now (previous high was 11 with Laurence), managed to get to his second phase 3 times, and managed to actually hit him in that second phase once. I'm very discouraged. Even in the first phase I feel like I have a handle on his attacks/movements, but then he'll just randomly add another slam or swipe at the end of one of his standard combos and have me immediately on the ropes. Not fun. Too hard. Since Bloodborne has no re-spec ability, I literally had to start a new character to beat that asshole, and it still took me north of 40 tries. Even then, it felt more like I got lucky than like I'd actually learnt how to handle him. |
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Post by Invisible Goat on Jun 26, 2019 9:34:14 GMT -5
The Orphan is slain. It took 49 attempts. Again, the next highest was Laurence at 11. I don't really know how to feel about it - I definitely enjoyed finally beating him and it was a rush and everything but I still think it's a pretty unfair fight, especially compared to everything in the rest of the game. I still have no fucking idea what to make of his second phase, I just unlocked and ran away from him and got extremely lucky, no idea what I was doing at all.
Overall the DLC was great though, maybe my 2 fav bosses (Ludwig and Lady Maria), and all 3 levels were cool as hell. I think I'm pretty much done with everything now as the chalice dungeons don't sound/seem appealing at all. I might have a go at the machine gun guy in the blood cave and the sharks in the well as I still haven't beaten either.
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Jul 1, 2019 8:37:49 GMT -5
I love the Orphan fight and still dread it every time. I don't think he's unfair, but he's certainly very hard. He's not fundamentally different than other bosses his size: Lady Maria, Gherman, Gascoigne. That is to say, humanoid brawlers. What makes him so difficult is that he has about three times the moveset as those others. That's what makes him so hard to learn, leading to the sense that you never really do. That classic Souls loop - fight, die, try again, get a little further, die, try again, get a little further still, die - takes much longer with the Orphan, because you're grinding through three times the curve. And you really have to grind it out, because to cap off his moveset is that enormous health bar.
He's got weaknesses though. All of his attacks can be dodged, and most offer generous openings for a hit or two. He's one of the easier bosses to gun parry, with numerous attacks susceptible to it. And his lunge in the first phase, which you can bait, is like a free backstab every time he does it.
I mean, he still makes me pull my hair out, but I never feel like the game is playing me false. Everything has a response, and there's no funny business with the hit boxes or anything.
(Oh, and despite the fact that he is very obviously kin, he's not kin, so no point in pushing kin damage.)
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patbat
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Post by patbat on Jul 1, 2019 9:15:58 GMT -5
I love the Orphan fight and still dread it every time. I don't think he's unfair, but he's certainly very hard. He's not fundamentally different than other bosses his size: Lady Maria, Gherman, Gascoigne. That is to say, humanoid brawlers. What makes him so difficult is that he has about three times the moveset as those others. That's what makes him so hard to learn, leading to the sense that you never really do. That classic Souls loop - fight, die, try again, get a little further, die, try again, get a little further still, die - takes much longer with the Orphan, because you're grinding through three times the curve. And you really have to grind it out, because to cap off his moveset is that enormous health bar. He's got weaknesses though. All of his attacks are can be dodged, and most offer generous openings for a hit or two. He's one of the easier bosses to gun parry, with numerous attacks susceptible to it. And his lunge in the first phase, which you can bait, is like a free backstab every time he does it. I mean, he still makes me pull my hair out, but I never feel like the game is playing me false. Everything has a response, and there's no funny business with the hit boxes or anything. (Oh, and despite the fact that he is very obviously kin, he's not kin, so no point in pushing kin damage.) I know there are plenty of videos like this supporting what you say, but I would swear on a stack of any book you'd care to hand me that the Orphan does not behave that predictably when I fight him. For example, in this video he only does the move where he pulls one red orb out of his weapon and chucks it directly at you once, at range; whenever I fight him he will spam that move endlessly, even point-blank. My Orphan also loves to spend the second phase of the fight spamming the move where he charges directly at you slamming his weapon into the ground six times. He'll do it three or four times in a row, easy. |
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Jul 1, 2019 9:20:52 GMT -5
I love the Orphan fight and still dread it every time. I don't think he's unfair, but he's certainly very hard. He's not fundamentally different than other bosses his size: Lady Maria, Gherman, Gascoigne. That is to say, humanoid brawlers. What makes him so difficult is that he has about three times the moveset as those others. That's what makes him so hard to learn, leading to the sense that you never really do. That classic Souls loop - fight, die, try again, get a little further, die, try again, get a little further still, die - takes much longer with the Orphan, because you're grinding through three times the curve. And you really have to grind it out, because to cap off his moveset is that enormous health bar. He's got weaknesses though. All of his attacks are can be dodged, and most offer generous openings for a hit or two. He's one of the easier bosses to gun parry, with numerous attacks susceptible to it. And his lunge in the first phase, which you can bait, is like a free backstab every time he does it. I mean, he still makes me pull my hair out, but I never feel like the game is playing me false. Everything has a response, and there's no funny business with the hit boxes or anything. (Oh, and despite the fact that he is very obviously kin, he's not kin, so no point in pushing kin damage.) I know there are plenty of videos like this supporting what you say, but I would swear on a stack of any book you'd care to hand me that the Orphan does not behave that predictably when I fight him. For example, in this video he only does the move where he pulls one red orb out of his weapon and chucks it directly at you once, at range; whenever I fight him he will spam that move endlessly, even point-blank. My Orphan also loves to spend the second phase of the fight spamming the move where he charges directly at you slamming his weapon into the ground six times. He'll do it three or four times in a row, easy. I believe you! There's a boss fight in Sekiro that is this to the letter for me. All the videos and guides are like, do this, and the boss will always do this, and then exploit. But motherfucker ... NO! That is not what happens at all. Never ever ever. |
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Invisible Goat
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Post by Invisible Goat on Jul 3, 2019 8:43:01 GMT -5
It's been a week since I finished/played and I feel like one of those hunters in the Hunter's Nightmare screaming "MORE BLOOD!" Goddamn what a game.
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