Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 22:36:25 GMT -5
So, my GF just had to endure 10 minutes of me rambling on about Paul Thomas Anderson and how I don't really care for him as a director anymore after seeing The Master and Inherent Vice.
My main gripe with PTA is that I just did not enjoy either of those films in anyway. I know he put craft into them, but at the end of the day they were miserable slogs imo. It even had me questioning my praise of There Will Be Blood. TWBB was a gorgeous film, and had an utterly great performance from DDL, but I find myself very hesitant to rewatch it because I just don't care to sit through the middle of that film again. Is my praise of TWBB actually valid if I didn't enjoy it? Am I just trying to not to anger popular opinion?
Can something actually be great if there is no base level of enjoyment? And it isn't like any super serious movie I don't get enjoyment out of. Magnolia, another PTA film doesn't have much comedy in it, but I absolutely love that. Or there is something like 2001, which in no way would I describe it as "fun" but I do enjoy.
Damn PTA for confusing me....
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dwarfoscar
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it's complicated
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Post by dwarfoscar on Oct 3, 2017 3:35:07 GMT -5
My hot take : unless you're a movie critic or film journalist or whatever, cultural significance is not that relevant. Only your enjoyment is on the line, there is no legacy of cinema to defend. Therefore, all the movies you love are great, all the movies you dislike suck.
And, no, PTA is great. Intermittently.
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Post by ganews on Oct 3, 2017 8:46:43 GMT -5
There Will Be Blood is the best; Boogie Nights is great; The Master and Inherent Vice I liked but may well never watch again; I hated Magnolia.
In conclusion, the people who wrote "Damaged" on the Joker won an Academy Award for Best Makeup.
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dwarfoscar
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it's complicated
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Post by dwarfoscar on Oct 3, 2017 9:50:46 GMT -5
There Will Be Blood is the best; Boogie Nights is great; The Master and Inherent Vice I liked but may well never watch again; I hated Magnolia. In conclusion, the people who wrote "Damaged" on the Joker won an Academy Award for Best Makeup. Rankin'o'clock ! 1) Magnolia 2) Punch Drunk Love 3) Boogie Nights 4) There Will Be Blood 5) The Master 6) Inherent Vice 7) Hard Eight |
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Post by Powerthirteen on Oct 3, 2017 9:56:07 GMT -5
1) There Will Be Blood
2) Magnolia
3-8) All the other ones
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Post by Ben Grimm on Oct 3, 2017 10:04:39 GMT -5
Great is a nearly meaningless term in and of itself.
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Oct 3, 2017 10:09:58 GMT -5
Can something actually be great if there is no base level of enjoyment? ? |
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moimoi
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Post by moimoi on Oct 3, 2017 10:39:48 GMT -5
1. Boogie Nights
2. Inherent Vice
3. The Master
4. Magnolia
5. There Will Be Blood
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dwarfoscar
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Post by dwarfoscar on Oct 3, 2017 10:43:13 GMT -5
Can something actually be great if there is no base level of enjoyment? ? That's the paradox of depressing movies. There's actual joy in crying your eyes out during a movie. Feeling something in a movie is enjoyable. Even hate is enjoyable, sometimes. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 13:26:31 GMT -5
Can something actually be great if there is no base level of enjoyment? ? I hate that movie. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2017 13:28:05 GMT -5
Magnolia
Boogie Nights
There will be blood
The Master
Inherent Vice
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Oct 3, 2017 13:58:13 GMT -5
The number of Magnolia-likers here is making me reconsider my membership of this forum.
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dwarfoscar
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it's complicated
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Post by dwarfoscar on Oct 3, 2017 14:07:48 GMT -5
The number of Magnolia-likers here is making me reconsider my membership of this forum. It's not going to stop It's not going to stop It's not going to stop 'Til you wise up |
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Invisible Goat
Shoutbox Elitist 
Grab your mother's keys, we're leaving
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Post by Invisible Goat on Oct 3, 2017 14:21:39 GMT -5
I think yes they can be great without being enjoyable I've seen a number of good ones recently I didn't really enjoy or have any desire to see again. Like Ghost Story.
Also I agree that The Master and Inherent Vice are worthless films and I love all of his previous work, esp. TWBB.
There Will Be Blood
Boogie Nights
Magnolia
Hard Eight
Punch Drunk Love (remember precisely nothing about this one but confident it would slot here)
Inherent Vice/The Master
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Post by pairesta on Oct 3, 2017 16:09:59 GMT -5
The two directors you cite as examples (Anderson, Kubrick) are pretty much made for your question and who immediately came to mind for me. Both have made movies that I didn't find terribly enjoyable, even as I recognized the craft and skill in them. Hell I'll even say TWBB didn't really click for me, but I still see the great performances, or the mechanics of how the movie is put together and works, and why it is so beloved. A few weeks ago I watched Kubrick's Shining, and in my review blurb here I said that it was a movie I admired more than I really liked. I'd still recommend it as a go-to for someone to experience, even as there's stuff in there that doesn't work for me, I can't ignore the craft that went into it.
But that's a rare quality those directors share in my mind. I can divorce the quality of their movie from my personal feelings of it. But then there's plenty of directors with "great" movies that I don't get at all, actively dislike, and apply the dreaded "overrated" label to, but that's for the Unpopular Film Opinions thread.
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Post by MrsLangdonAlger on Oct 3, 2017 20:49:36 GMT -5
Magnolia is my favorite PTA movie and probably always will be.
Anyway, I'm with Grimm in that "great" is kind of a meaningless term, as it's subjective. I think a movie can be an amazing artistic achievement even if it's not FUN to watch. I think it can be an amazing artistic achievement even if I personally am miserable throughout, though then I wouldn't call it great myself. So anyway, Inherent Vice can be a huge achievement even if one doesn't personally like it or find it enjoyable to watch, but one gets to decide for oneself what is great and what isn't.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 4, 2017 6:09:32 GMT -5
1. Magnolia is great. I loved Inherent Vice, There Will Be Blood was fun... I was a bit colder on The Master, but that's not to say I didn't like it, I just didn't care for parts of it.
2. There are definitely films I admire more than I enjoy. All film opinions are subjective, but that can include really respecting something while not being particularly engaged by it. Sure, Children of Paradise is impressive for a three hour film made during Vichy France with the involvement of some Resistance members about French high and low theatre in the 19th century, but I'm good never seeing it a second time.
You don't have to respect something because someone told you to, of course, this can just be a personal view - I don't think very highly of Triumph of the Will; it's most impressive shots are done in part because it was expensively made (Riefenstahl got the shot of Hitler descending on Nuremberg from a plane because she was in a different plane tracking him as it went); it feels much longer than its short running time allows and the performances such as they are are over the top. When I saw this clip in a film class some people burst out laughing.
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Post by ganews on Oct 4, 2017 8:26:55 GMT -5
When I saw this clip in a film class some people burst out laughing. Because they were all thinking of this: |
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Post by gillianandersoncpr on Oct 4, 2017 22:33:32 GMT -5
Timely reference: Blade Runner. I'm not sure which cut of the film I've seen, except that it's one of the later non-narrated ones, but I'd say that it's a 'great' film inasmuch as I have a notion of artistic merit and as others have said, respect for the craft.
But I don't enjoy it and have little inclination to watch it again, other than maybe that one Rutger Hauer monologue. Otherwise, it's an aesthetically-marvelous but boring and depressing film to me.
Film-as-art and movies-for-enjoyment can be but often aren't overlapping circles for me, so I'm comfortable with considering them separately. That being said, I'm quite a PTA fan and really like and can rewatch The Master, maybe because I find its particular subject matter to be fascinating.
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