Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 14:43:30 GMT -5
Watched both the original and 2049 the past two days...... let's go.
Original:
- BR was anime as fuck. - Rutger Hauer was amazing. - Visually stunning to this day. - Sean Young was stupendously hot. - I want to eat some noodles. - Deckard is a human, being a replicant would be dumb.
2049:
- Too long. - Could have cut everything dealing with Joi. - Can't cut out leto because then there would be no outside force trying to find the child. - Killed off the most interesting character in the first 10 minutes. - K is an idiot for not fucking his boss. - What made the replicants so interesting in the original was their humanity and why they wanted to live. Now you have a replicant trying to deny his humanity and an actor who is only showing the range of stoic/boring as fuck, and that makes for not that interesting of a movie. Also, the villain replicant was ehhh. - Deckard is a human, being a replicant would be dumb.
|
|
|
Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Oct 21, 2017 17:37:10 GMT -5
Watched both the original and 2049 the past two days...... let's go. Original: - BR was anime as fuck. - Rutger Hauer was amazing. - Visually stunning to this day. - Sean Young was stupendously hot. - I want to eat some noodles. - Deckard is a human, being a replicant would be dumb. 2049: - Too long. - Could have cut everything dealing with Joi. - Can't cut out leto because then there would be no outside force trying to find the child. - Killed off the most interesting character in the first 10 minutes. - K is an idiot for not fucking his boss. - What made the replicants so interesting in the original was their humanity and why they wanted to live. Now you have a replicant trying to deny his humanity and an actor who is only showing the range of stoic/boring as fuck, and that makes for not that interesting of a movie. Also, the villain replicant was ehhh. - Deckard is a human, being a replicant would be dumb. So, basically, ambiguity is bad? And how do you figure that K/Joe is trying to deny his humanity, especially for the whole movie? Also, isn't it canonically unclear whether Deckard is a human or a replicant? I mean, it's deliberately left unclear in the book, after all.
|
|
|
Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Oct 21, 2017 18:16:19 GMT -5
Watched both the original and 2049 the past two days...... let's go. Original: - BR was anime as fuck. - Rutger Hauer was amazing. - Visually stunning to this day. - Sean Young was stupendously hot. - I want to eat some noodles. - Deckard is a human, being a replicant would be dumb. 2049: - Too long. - Could have cut everything dealing with Joi. - Can't cut out leto because then there would be no outside force trying to find the child. - Killed off the most interesting character in the first 10 minutes. - K is an idiot for not fucking his boss. - What made the replicants so interesting in the original was their humanity and why they wanted to live. Now you have a replicant trying to deny his humanity and an actor who is only showing the range of stoic/boring as fuck, and that makes for not that interesting of a movie. Also, the villain replicant was ehhh. - Deckard is a human, being a replicant would be dumb. This opinion is bad and you should feel bad.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 20:25:15 GMT -5
Watched both the original and 2049 the past two days...... let's go. Original: - BR was anime as fuck. - Rutger Hauer was amazing. - Visually stunning to this day. - Sean Young was stupendously hot. - I want to eat some noodles. - Deckard is a human, being a replicant would be dumb. 2049: - Too long. - Could have cut everything dealing with Joi. - Can't cut out leto because then there would be no outside force trying to find the child. - Killed off the most interesting character in the first 10 minutes. - K is an idiot for not fucking his boss. - What made the replicants so interesting in the original was their humanity and why they wanted to live. Now you have a replicant trying to deny his humanity and an actor who is only showing the range of stoic/boring as fuck, and that makes for not that interesting of a movie. Also, the villain replicant was ehhh. - Deckard is a human, being a replicant would be dumb. So, basically, ambiguity is bad? And how do you figure that K/Joe is trying to deny his humanity, especially for the whole movie? Also, isn't it canonically unclear whether Deckard is a human or a replicant? I mean, it's deliberately left unclear in the book, after all. No, ambiguity is not bad. I just think there wasn't nearly enough in the first one to really suggest that Deckard is a replicant. Also think it isn't as interesting. I think it takes away from the beautiful ending if Deckard's empathy for Roy at the end is that of another replicant rather than a human. And I don't give a shit what the book said, because as far as the movie goes I wouldn't like it if he were one. And K was clearly not wanting it to be true, for the first half of the movie. Albeit, because he would get hunted down. I did like that he wasn't the kid though, that he wasn't some special chosen one. Really the complaint more has to do with Ryan Gosling's acting and the character just kinda being a boring one to follow around for THREE HOURS.
|
|
|
Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Oct 22, 2017 2:01:45 GMT -5
It's obvious that he was disappointed to learn he wasn't born. The reason he wasn't ecstatic when he found the horse was because he was experiencing existential horror. He spent his whole life thinking he was one thing and that horse was a refutal of that.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Greene's October Surprise on Oct 22, 2017 2:50:50 GMT -5
It's obvious that he was disappointed to learn he wasn't born. The reason he wasn't ecstatic when he found the horse was because he was experiencing existential horror. He spent his whole life thinking he was one thing and that horse was a refutal of that. I loved how fucking GIANT his eyes got when he found the horse in the furnace.
|
|
|
Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Oct 22, 2017 3:45:29 GMT -5
It's obvious that he was disappointed to learn he wasn't born. The reason he wasn't ecstatic when he found the horse was because he was experiencing existential horror. He spent his whole life thinking he was one thing and that horse was a refutal of that. I loved how fucking GIANT his eyes got when he found the horse in the furnace. Ryan Gosling was fucking great in the movie.
|
|
|
Post by Jimmy James on Oct 22, 2017 9:32:35 GMT -5
I thought it was weird that the police could apparently immediately track wherever K was, but he seemed entirely unaware of this. If you're referring to how they found him in Las Vegas, I think there was a tracking device planted on K/Joe by Mariette when she came to his apartment- it was a little pill-shaped thing she took out of her mouth and put in his jacket pocket. I misread that scene at first, until we saw K pull it out of his pocket and discard it later, I though she was putting it in her own pocket and that she had taken a DNA sample during their night together for Wallace to test to see if he was Deckard & Rachel's offspring.
|
|
|
Post by Jimmy James on Oct 22, 2017 10:05:10 GMT -5
I dragged myself out to see this last night, concerned that it wouldn't be in theaters much longer. There was still a decent crowd on a Saturday for its third week; while its opening weekend may have been a disappointment, hopefully it's got good word of mouth. Edward James Olmos was a pleasant surprise, didn't read too much going in and didn't know he'd be in there. Killing off Rachel can side-step some of the discrepancies between cuts- Gaff's "It's too bad she won't live" gives the impression she's got a built-in short lifespan like the other replicants, though I thought one of the studio cuts with the voiceover had Deckard give narration explaining she had an open-ended lifespan and they could live happily ever after. If she died a couple years later in childbirth, they can avoid answering which of those was correct. Random concern I had thinking over it again this morning was Deckard's (?) bees. I'm assuming bee colonies collapsed in their timeline when the rest of their ecosystems did, so I feel like the existence of the thriving bees in Las Vegas should come as a minor miracle to these characters. There's no one else around, so we're left to conclude it's Deckard's work, presumably in reference to another famous retired detective. And now I'm left worried that, with running back to Los Angeles and reuniting with his daughter and perhaps meeting up with the replicant underground, no one will come back to tend to the bees.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2017 10:50:44 GMT -5
It's obvious that he was disappointed to learn he wasn't born. The reason he wasn't ecstatic when he found the horse was because he was experiencing existential horror. He spent his whole life thinking he was one thing and that horse was a refutal of that. I get all that, I'm saying that seeing someone act robotic isn't exactly thrilling. I just don't think Ryan Gosling is all that special in super serious roles, give him something like Nice Guys or Big Short and that is when he is at his best. This or Drive? Ehhh.
|
|
|
Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Oct 23, 2017 18:46:18 GMT -5
Brief thoughts since I’ve been away from the convo for a while and I should have written up something nice after I saw it last week: —I saw it in 3D and it was fine for me. —In addition to the thing with “Joe” being the sort of in-programmed name Joi has for guys, I think “K” just works better as the guy’s name. It’s hard-edged, can serve as a Kafka reference, and I was that one person to giggle in the theater when Joi suggested “Joe” because I thought it was kind of a joke because it’s such a banal name. I actually did think it was kind of a jok e, which is part of why the “Hey, Joe” scene later on probably hit me like it did. —The scene with giant holo-Joi was crushing because it definitely plants a big fat seed of doubt to how real Joi’s development really was. Of course, we all work with what we’re born with an experience, and Joi didn’t experience much prior to getting her little mobile emitter thing, so it’s no surprise she reaches for that. The “Was Joi really self-aware?” thing seems unanswerable to me. —If I were to say the film had a big theme it was replaceability and self-determination. K gets lurched from replaceable status and then finds out there’s nothing inherently special about him. He makes his own choice, defying Wallace and the other replicants, in favor of reuniting Deckard and his daughter. Who knows what the larger repercussions are, and it may end up destroying K, but it’s his choice (much like leaving the apartment completely was Joi’s, perhaps). It’s only through making choices we are who we are and all that existential stuff, and it’s only by making his own choice that K is able to know that he is someone, and someone unique (that it happens to tie into his one big memory is a nice touch). —I tend towards K’s memory being Deckard’s daughter’s actual memory being a coincidence—she was given the brief for the sort of man K (or K’s series?) would be, a way to express something she can’t express otherwise, much as many of her dreams are things she can’t otherwise experience. —I wonder if her immune system thing is an actual immune system thing or just a ruse to keep doctors away from her (and it’s clever hiding her in the belly of the corporate beast). The replicants were rather more human than I thought—I’d assumed they were a bit more biomechanical than all bio, but they couldn’t even tell Rachel was a replicant until they saw her serial number—I guess the main advantages would be quicker gestation time, a higher degree of customizability and a loophole in the philosophy of natural rights? Of course if Rachel was so human it wouldn’t be much of a problem of her to have a child with a human Deckard. —The whole Deckard-was-programmed-to-fall-for-Rachel was another thing that was meant to be another ground-falling-out-from-underneath-you moment, even if it’s still ambiguous (few records from that time and such, wrong eyes, &c.). It’s such a repulsive possibility because it cuts away at the specialness of two individuals falling in love, the human aspect of it as opposed to just being some programmed-in drive. More doubts about the characters, and doubts about ourselves and how “human” we actually are. —I don’t think it was very well executed, though—I’d go further than moimoi and say not only was Leto miscast but the role of Wallace was misconceived. Tyrell is much more ambiguous; Wallace is simply evil—if he were evil in a lower-key, profit-maximizing way it would be one thing but he monologues. Honestly I’m not sure how necessary it was to give Wallace, the corporation, a face. And the stuff with Deckard and nu-Rachel happens so quickly it doesn’t have any of the effect it’s aiming for, beyond another bit of cruelty (I think it would have been stronger had we only seen Rachel in that photograph and that skeleton, but it wouldn’t have driven home that replaceability that Wallace aims for). —The degree to which Blade Runner 2049 is a sequel surprised me—I don’t only mean in terms of story, but in terms of revisiting old stuff from the past film and even going through the same narrative steps to some degree: the headquarters—they were the old Tyrell ones repurposed, right?—and the city’s aesthetic’s broadly similar despite the time jump (with added Korean and Soviet—we’re clearly in the future of the early eighties future—influence). There’s also Luv as a sort of twisted Rachel, the love story with someone less human than our protagonist, encountering the lonely eccentric in an opulent setting, the wet final fight. —One disadvantage of this is that it does set up direct comparisons and it’s hard to avoid the palette’s blah and monochrome (which which might be a Villeneuve problem since I had a similar issue with Arrival)—even if there were dominant colors the palette was always diverse and subtle in a way this film’s look was not. —The film felt exactly the right length to me. —Yes we get some Euro-car spotting: K’s flying car’s a Peugeot! I get why Peugeot wanted to put their own name on the flying car, but really if any brand’s right for the role it’s their wholly-owned subsidiary Citroën, which famously advertised its midcentury top-of-the-line model like this.
|
|
|
Post by Celebith on Oct 29, 2017 23:12:30 GMT -5
Avengers running time: 143 minutes, no complaints Blade Runner 2049 running time: 163 minutes, "How are our bladders supposed to survive this?" Are those 20 minutes really that big of a dealbreaker? no. It could have had another 20 minutes and I'd probably have still been fine with it.
|
|
|
Post by Celebith on Oct 29, 2017 23:26:56 GMT -5
- Deckard is a human, being a replicant would be dumb. What is this, 1989 usenet? The unicorn dream / origami and the scenes with the red 'replicant' reflective glow in the original movie all pretty well establish Deckard's replicant status. And sure, Wallace could be lying about Deckard being 'programmed' to fall in love with Rachel, but if Tyrell was trying to develop replicating replicants and Wallace had the files, what's the point?
|
|
|
Post by Celebith on Oct 29, 2017 23:39:41 GMT -5
I wouldn't necessarily agree with General that it's a meaningless coincidence, because that's a bit contrived, but ultimately I think it is supposed to be a bit unclear, which I like, because it's more true to a PKD novel in that you can't ever be sure whether you have a legit explanation for what's happening or not. It's also why I'm OK with the incipient replicant rebellion playing such a small role in the film; as in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, BR2049 is ultimately focused more on Joe's (and Deckard's) reaction to a deeply confusing world without any clear-cut moral choices (I'd argue that one's sympathies should lie most heavily with the replicant army, but their "more human than human" attitudes and their apparent dismissal of artificial intelligence as also being persons are alarming), and how they cope in a world of uncertainty, a lack of respect for the rights of sentient persons, and soul-crushing consumerism than it is about the particulars of sociopolitical happenings that may or may not be happening at all. From reading some other reviews, I get that there's supposed to be some replicant sense of superiority towards AIs, but I wonder if it wasn't just Mariette's irritation at being reminded that she was only there as a substitute. We don't really have a lot of examples to go by. Also, I realize that the later scene, with the advertisement avatar of Joi calling K 'Joe' is supposed to show that it's just a name she's programmed to use, but I wonder if it was some of piece of K's instance of Joi downloading a backup when he put her in the memory stick, and actually recognizing him. Probably not, but it's not impossible. Other than that, though, I'm with you on PKD inspired fiction being ambiguous. If you walk away from any of his works feeling like you really understand what's going on, you probably missed something.
|
|
|
Post by Celebith on Oct 29, 2017 23:45:53 GMT -5
I was really hoping for a scene where K had to dig deep and someone yelled at him
"Are you a replicant, or a repliCAN?"
|
|