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Post by Nudeviking on Mar 10, 2020 23:58:29 GMT -5
I left high school early to just go to community college on the State's dime and so missed a lot of Steinbeck, Tolstoy, and Hemingway. I didn't catch up on those until later. Alternatively, up to that point, there were a ton of books like Catcher in the Rye that I would read after my sister read them for her assignments, only for the curriculum to change when I caught up to that grade. For some reason, my high school curriculum was very short story-focused as well, so I missed a few other books that way as well. Question for everyone here: We’re any of you assigned “a lot” of Tolstoy in high school? Because his two most famous works seem way too long to devote the time to in a high school English class, and I was only ever assigned the short story “How Much Land Does a Man Need?”, but I guess it’s possible that lots of kids get assigned The Death of Ivan Ilych or something. I had to read The Death of Ivan Iych at some point in my school career but think it might have been the mandatory literature class I took in college. I think I also had to read some of his short stories at some point but I honestly might be mixing him up with Alexander Pushkin there.
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Post by Nudeviking on Mar 11, 2020 0:07:59 GMT -5
I had a pretty liberal and varied high school curriculum -- we were even given the option to read the Bible as literature (I did a comparison of the writings of Paul and the various Johns because I'm a Beatles nerd; this is also why I left the Catholic church and fucking hate Paul), but I too never read Catcher In The Rye and I don't think I missed much. I didn't like Dickens and didn't read more than a little of A Tale Of Two Cities before last year's London Calling Reading Challenge (tho I read A Christmas Carol and Bartleby The Scrivener in my 30s and liked them it). I was never assigned any Russian literature. One of the English department spoke Middle English so she did a reading of The Canterbury Tales (tho I still prefer the MAD version, " Whon thot Aprille swithin potrzebie / The burgid prillie gives one heebie-jeebie.") I also had the "guy in the English department who knew about Old and Middle English" in high school and we therefore had to read Beowulf and Canterbury Tales where most of the class was just the teacher reading to us in a form of English that none of us really understood (the text we actually had to read was in standard modern times English). I know at some point I had to do a reading of The Yeoman's Tale in Middle English as a class project. I dressed up like Robin Hood for it, because that's what his picture looked like in our text book.
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Post by ganews on Mar 22, 2020 23:18:47 GMT -5
As I have complained from time to time, I was hardly required to read anything from classical literature before college. There were definitely selections from novels like "The Knight's Tale" from Canterbury Tales, poetry, and short stories like Flannery O'Connor, but almost everything at least the length of a novella was left out of my curriculum.
A complete list of every required full novel, novella, or play, grades 6-12: The Secret Garden A Christmas Carol
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn* The Scarlett Letter* Great Expectations Romeo and Juliet
Julius Caesar Macbeth The Scarlett Letter, again Robinson Crusoe**
A Tale of Two Cities Hamlet
*middle school gifted program
**senior summer reading where you could choose the novel from a list; Gulliver's Travels and Jane Eyre at least were also options.
Now, as to the actual thread title. I blame my education for never making me read anything by Jane Austen or any Bronte. Never! I was just a high school boy who didn't know better so it didn't immediately appeal to me, and after I read Lady Chatterley's Lover (a college girl told me it was hot) I was put off English literature even further. Yes I realize these things are hardly related.
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Post by Mr. Greene's October Surprise on Mar 23, 2020 3:04:28 GMT -5
Question for everyone here: We’re any of you assigned “a lot” of Tolstoy in high school? Because his two most famous works seem way too long to devote the time to in a high school English class, and I was only ever assigned the short story “How Much Land Does a Man Need?”, but I guess it’s possible that lots of kids get assigned The Death of Ivan Ilych or something. I had to read The Death of Ivan Iych at some point in my school career but think it might have been the mandatory literature class I took in college. I think I also had to read some of his short stories at some point but I honestly might be mixing him up with Alexander Pushkin there. I was never assigned to read that, but I read it anyway because it was in the omnibus of short stories/novellas that we had to read for an English lit class, and it scared the ever-loving shit out of me. I've been petrified of dying like Ivan Illych ever since.
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Post by sarapen on Mar 23, 2020 8:59:03 GMT -5
I don't recall ever reading any Russian literature in high school or before, even though I was always in the advanced English classes. We did read a bunch of Jane Austen and one George Eliot book. The only assigned reading I recall outside of the Anglo classical canon was an essay from Michael Ondaatje. The deepest we ever got into American classics was The Great Gatsby, but otherwise we read Canlit or British stuff.
The only book I recall from outside the literary canon was a James Clavell novel I did a book report on, and I only picked it because I'd already read half of it and I wanted to spare myself some work.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2020 11:04:52 GMT -5
I really should look up what Missouri public schools' policy was in the '90s. My guess is that it was lax or irrational to the point that my teachers ignored it and let us read and report on whatever we wanted, as long as it resembled a book. I reported back on everything from frothy (and pro-gay) like Tales of the City to dense like Ellison's Invisible Man and my teachers never batted an eye.
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Post by WKRP Jimmy Drop on Mar 23, 2020 19:21:32 GMT -5
Man I will totes win this thread:
All of your typical public high school curriculum assigned reads have objectionable content, and my private church school didn’t want us learnin no swears or working out that people sometimes question principles they’ve grown up with or anything vulgar like that. Anything “worldly” was right out. My English teacher had to fight to be allowed to teach a single Shakespeare play.
Joke’s on them; my older cousin taught me all the swears when I was in second grade, & my parents didn’t censor my reading. But classic lit didn’t have dragons or magic* or robots** in them, I didn’t have any friends outside the church & had no idea what you were “supposed” to read in high school. If it was on my grandma’s shelf I’d read that kind of lit if I needed a book, but mostly I never touched any of that biz til I was...god probably in my early 20s. Maybe later. Didn’t even know most of it even existed.
*have never ever figured out why my parents didn’t ban sci-fi/fantasy. TBH they probably legit did not care as long as I was being quiet for once. ** I mean obviously I found Jules Verne
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Post by songstarliner on Mar 24, 2020 21:43:24 GMT -5
I’ve never read Catcher in the Rye, but I’ve both heard enough about the main character and loathing of the book from people who sound, well, a lot like the main character that I wonder if it wouldn’t be a bad read after all. It's not a bad read at all; it has real flashes of brilliance, and the style (unusual for the time) is so effortlessly touching. You can easily read it in an afternoon or even during a long bath, so why not see for yourself?
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Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 6, 2020 2:39:34 GMT -5
I just googled for that Modern Library list of 100 Best Novels to see if there was anything there which was obviously missing for me. Wanted to see if there were any there which I probably should have read when I was younger but never did. After looking at that, I'll say that I never read "Slaughterhouse-Five" by Vonnegut nor "Animal Farm" by Orwell. Those feel like books I should have read when I was at least school-age. There are other books on that list which I haven't read, but none other that feel like a blindspot from my youth.
Also, yeesh, I hate that list.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Apr 6, 2020 8:00:21 GMT -5
I just googled for that Modern Library list of 100 Best Novels to see if there was anything there which was obviously missing for me. Wanted to see if there were any there which I probably should have read when I was younger but never did. After looking at that, I'll say that I never read "Slaughterhouse-Five" by Vonnegut nor "Animal Farm" by Orwell. Those feel like books I should have read when I was at least school-age. There are other books on that list which I haven't read, but none other that feel like a blindspot from my youth.
Also, yeesh, I hate that list.
I've only read 13 on that list that I'm sure of, plus possibly a few more (I can never remember which Hemingway I've actually read and which I only know the plots to; his novels never did much for me, though I remember liking some of his short stories more), and also 5-10 pages of Ulysses (which is as much as I'm ever going to read of it). Given the (relatively) heavy presence of stream-of-consciousness stuff there, at least at the top of the list, I don't think I'm going to be putting much effort into finishing it.
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Crash Test Dumbass
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Posts: 7,058
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Post by Crash Test Dumbass on Apr 6, 2020 8:57:53 GMT -5
I just googled for that Modern Library list of 100 Best Novels to see if there was anything there which was obviously missing for me. Wanted to see if there were any there which I probably should have read when I was younger but never did. After looking at that, I'll say that I never read "Slaughterhouse-Five" by Vonnegut nor "Animal Farm" by Orwell. Those feel like books I should have read when I was at least school-age. There are other books on that list which I haven't read, but none other that feel like a blindspot from my youth.
Also, yeesh, I hate that list.
I've only read 10 of those books. Hell, I'm a librarian and I've only even fucking heard of like half of those books. Who are these people?
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Post by Albert Fish Taco on Apr 6, 2020 14:00:22 GMT -5
I just googled for that Modern Library list of 100 Best Novels to see if there was anything there which was obviously missing for me. Wanted to see if there were any there which I probably should have read when I was younger but never did. After looking at that, I'll say that I never read "Slaughterhouse-Five" by Vonnegut nor "Animal Farm" by Orwell. Those feel like books I should have read when I was at least school-age. There are other books on that list which I haven't read, but none other that feel like a blindspot from my youth.
Also, yeesh, I hate that list.
I've only read 10 of those books. Hell, I'm a librarian and I've only even fucking heard of like half of those books. Who are these people? Seriously a good fifth of these novels I've never heard of. There's only about 5.5 o these that I remember reading in school (the half is because I think we only read a short story out of Winesburg, Ohio). There's another 9.5 I read on my own (started Pale Fire a couple of years ago, but quickly realized I don't particularly like Nabokov and bailed on it). What's odd is this number includes some moderately arcane titles (pretty sure The Studs Lonegan Trillogy has been out-of-print for decades).
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Post by MyNameIsNoneOfYourGoddamnBusin on Apr 6, 2020 15:02:04 GMT -5
About eight years after I graduated, I ran into my old high school English teacher out in the wild (a Dandy Warhols show). I ended up introducing myself as one of his ex-students and he ended up laying down the emotional burden that he'd felt his career was a waste of time and he'd never actually gotten anything through to any of his students (I know this was a plot of an old Twilight Zone episode, but this did really happen). He asked me if I could name anything I'd actually gotten out of his class that I'd carried with me, probably expecting me to extol that slogging through Catcher in the Rye had actually changed my life in some profound way that didn't involve killing any of the Beatles. And I really didn't have anything. Luckily the girl I'd taken to the concert held a Literature degree and could actually give a real answer about something he'd assigned and that meant something to him (she'd never gone to that school), but that's always been the moment that stuck out about high school English curriculum.
As for stuff I think I was supposed to have read, we did one or two Hemingway short stories but I've still yet to read a novel, a few Faulkner stories but nothing novel-length (I hated the short stories but ended up reading a few books as an adult--one or two decent ones plus Intruders in the Dust which I hold as the worst experimental novel by a respected author), nothing from the nineteenth century women's section aside from a few Emily Dickinson poems I found dreadful (I now have an appreciation for Jane Austen after having read her during my sleeping with a Jane Austen fangirl period but still have no desire to touch anything Bronte), F. Scott Fitzgerald (which I've read on my own and found the Great Gatsby to be vastly superior to anything else he put out, save the last chapter only of This Side of Paradise) or Moby Dick (I don't even know if that's common high school curriculum anymore). What I remember was the typical Twain (which I liked), Dickens (the only author I felt I was actually taught how to read), Shakespeare (virtually no opinion), and for some reason Russell Banks (which I remember was promptly dropped from the curriculum afterward).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 15:27:22 GMT -5
I read almost all of the books assigned, even the ones written by dames, but I bought Coles Notes to Great Expectations instead of reading the novel. I dunno. Seemed too expectationy
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Post by Nudeviking on Apr 7, 2020 0:38:01 GMT -5
About eight years after I graduated, I ran into my old high school English teacher out in the wild (a Dandy Warhols show). I ended up introducing myself as one of his ex-students and he ended up laying down the emotional burden that he'd felt his career was a waste of time and he'd never actually gotten anything through to any of his students (I know this was a plot of an old Twilight Zone episode, but this did really happen). He asked me if I could name anything I'd actually gotten out of his class that I'd carried with me, probably expecting me to extol that slogging through Catcher in the Rye had actually changed my life in some profound way that didn't involve killing any of the Beatles. And I really didn't have anything. Luckily the girl I'd taken to the concert held a Literature degree and could actually give a real answer about something he'd assigned and that meant something to him (she'd never gone to that school), but that's always been the moment that stuck out about high school English curriculum. As for stuff I think I was supposed to have read, we did one or two Hemingway short stories but I've still yet to read a novel, a few Faulkner stories but nothing novel-length (I hated the short stories but ended up reading a few books as an adult--one or two decent ones plus Intruders in the Dust which I hold as the worst experimental novel by a respected author), nothing from the nineteenth century women's section aside from a few Emily Dickinson poems I found dreadful (I now have an appreciation for Jane Austen after having read her during my sleeping with a Jane Austen fangirl period but still have no desire to touch anything Bronte), F. Scott Fitzgerald (which I've read on my own and found the Great Gatsby to be vastly superior to anything else he put out, save the last chapter only of This Side of Paradise) or Moby Dick (I don't even know if that's common high school curriculum anymore). What I remember was the typical Twain (which I liked), Dickens (the only author I felt I was actually taught how to read), Shakespeare (virtually no opinion), and for some reason Russell Banks (which I remember was promptly dropped from the curriculum afterward). I had a similar experience with a teacher that my friends and I encountered in the wilds at a horse racing track a few years after we graduated from high school. He did not have any existential crisis though about wasting his career. He was drunk and bought us overpriced beers. We chugged said beers and then yelled at horses with him.
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Post by Albert Fish Taco on Apr 7, 2020 12:20:11 GMT -5
About eight years after I graduated, I ran into my old high school English teacher out in the wild (a Dandy Warhols show). I ended up introducing myself as one of his ex-students and he ended up laying down the emotional burden that he'd felt his career was a waste of time and he'd never actually gotten anything through to any of his students (I know this was a plot of an old Twilight Zone episode, but this did really happen). He asked me if I could name anything I'd actually gotten out of his class that I'd carried with me, probably expecting me to extol that slogging through Catcher in the Rye had actually changed my life in some profound way that didn't involve killing any of the Beatles. And I really didn't have anything. Luckily the girl I'd taken to the concert held a Literature degree and could actually give a real answer about something he'd assigned and that meant something to him (she'd never gone to that school), but that's always been the moment that stuck out about high school English curriculum. As for stuff I think I was supposed to have read, we did one or two Hemingway short stories but I've still yet to read a novel, a few Faulkner stories but nothing novel-length (I hated the short stories but ended up reading a few books as an adult--one or two decent ones plus Intruders in the Dust which I hold as the worst experimental novel by a respected author), nothing from the nineteenth century women's section aside from a few Emily Dickinson poems I found dreadful (I now have an appreciation for Jane Austen after having read her during my sleeping with a Jane Austen fangirl period but still have no desire to touch anything Bronte), F. Scott Fitzgerald (which I've read on my own and found the Great Gatsby to be vastly superior to anything else he put out, save the last chapter only of This Side of Paradise) or Moby Dick (I don't even know if that's common high school curriculum anymore). What I remember was the typical Twain (which I liked), Dickens (the only author I felt I was actually taught how to read), Shakespeare (virtually no opinion), and for some reason Russell Banks (which I remember was promptly dropped from the curriculum afterward). I had a similar experience with a teacher that my friends and I encountered in the wilds at a horse racing track a few years after we graduated from high school. He did not have any existential crisis though about wasting his career. He was drunk and bought us overpriced beers. We chugged said beers and then yelled at horses with him. But did he also treat you to breakfasts on enchanted mornings ....... in a place of horses, history and tradition.
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Post by Nudeviking on Apr 7, 2020 18:54:56 GMT -5
I had a similar experience with a teacher that my friends and I encountered in the wilds at a horse racing track a few years after we graduated from high school. He did not have any existential crisis though about wasting his career. He was drunk and bought us overpriced beers. We chugged said beers and then yelled at horses with him. But did he also treat you to breakfasts on enchanted mornings ....... in a place of horses, history and tradition. Capital Region nonsense that all of maybe three people on this forum will understand. AW YE YE! Unfortunately he did not treat us to breakfast on a morning enchanted or otherwise.
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Trurl
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Post by Trurl on Apr 8, 2020 8:10:49 GMT -5
I went from advanced English to whatever the opposite of "advanced" English was after the first year of high school, and I can't remember which books were assigned in junior high or high school. I remember mostly Canadian authors as assigned reading - the Margrets' Lawrence and Atwood, Robertson Davies, Mordecai Richler. At some point I was assigned Catcher in the Rye (maybe that was junior high, also when we read Lord of the Flies) and The Great Gatsby. I'm pretty sure I read everything I was assigned, even the stuff I hated *cough The Stone Angel cough* because I was a compulsive reader.
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