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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 10:32:32 GMT -5
Okay, so at least two of us are interested in talking about this here, so here goes. This will have spoilers, so please stop reading if you don't want any of that.
Okay? Here goes.
As I said in the Last Movie Watched board, I thought this was great. The kids all did a fantastic job. They really sold the fear, pain, friendship and infighting. (The one exception I have is Ben Hanscom standing around at the end with giant gashes across his belly and not noticing/feeling it. Injuries DO hurt for more than five minutes after being inflicted, guys. But to be fair, they did a much better job of that when Henry carved the H into his stomach earlier.)
Bill Skarsgard was an AMAZINGLY good Pennywise. A far more animalistic performance than Tim Curry it seemed...more like a monster pretending to be a clown, rather than a clown that turns into a monster, if that makes sense. (The lazy eye and drool definitely increased that effect.)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 10:46:10 GMT -5
Okay, I got into a free screening that NYU was holding. As someone who hasn't read the book but has seen most of the miniseries, the movie bowled me over. IT is basically an 80's adventure film (Stand By Me, The Goonies) but with a greater sense of horror, dread, and eventual maturity. I really dug it.
- The acting was terrific across the board. Skarsgard was sublime and all these kids deserve healthy, long careers. If not an Oscar nom, this movie deserves a Screen Actors Guild nomination.
- A lot of people say they didn't find the movie that scary. Well, I almost shit myself at the opening and the projector scene so I guess I'm an outlier. Plus at one point during the haunted house scene, I swear Pennywise looked straight at the camera and that fucked me up bad.
- I do have quibbles with how they handled Ben and Mike's characters. I mean, they were still defined enough, but I do wonder how turning Ben into the historian/librarian will affect the sequel and what Mike'll be doing.
- A significant amount of people at my screening laughed at the end where they all hold hands with each other's blood, then laughed harder when Bev rubbed her blood on Bill's face. That really pissed me off. Keep in mind that these are college students, though.
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Post by HipsterDBag on Sept 11, 2017 10:53:56 GMT -5
I thought it was absolutely incredible, with one GLARING exception.
The fact that they changed the story so that Bev would be kidnapped and the boys would descend down to fight IT to rescue her was, in my opinion, a betrayal of her character with just cannot be justified. Bev was the fighter, the strong one, the one who really led everybody in actually battling IT -- not just some damsel in distress. I found that completely offputting, and it really took any enjoyment I might have had of the ending away.
Other than that, I think it was the best Stephen King adaptation since Shawshank Redemption.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 11:06:23 GMT -5
Yeah, I thought that seemed odd, and I was trying to remember if Beverly had been captured in the book or the old series. Nope!
I forgot that Mike was the historian before. I had to look it up to refresh my memory - Ben becomes an engineer, and Mike stays behind as the historian. I hope they give Mike something equally interesting to tie him to the town.
The only "scary" thing in this movie that didn't work for me was the leper. It was too obviously animatronic, with the moving nose hole and weird eyes. But the Picasso-style painting woman was fucking creepy, and the best scares to me were Pennywise using Georgie as a puppet in Bill's basement, then THROWING him into the water and flailing forward, and when he showed up, large-size in the garage from the slideshow. SO well done!
It's funny, I already loved the story from before, but moving the setting up to 1989 made it even more personal to me. From 1985 to 1989 I spent a lot of time riding my bike around small Maine towns either by myself or with friends, and had plenty of times I was scared of something, but unlike the book there were never any dead bodies or real monsters after me. Just one swarm of yellow jackets that stung me a bunch of times (from a gully/quarry area, but with no water) and sent me running home, screaming.
I had one really bad bully who went to school from the same bus stop as me, and several more at school. I actually had a crabapple fight between 4-5 of my friends and 3-4 bullies, that we ended up winning and scaring them off.
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Sept 11, 2017 11:25:50 GMT -5
I saw some people (like the RedLetterMedia guys) making fun of this movie because of its jump scares, even going so far as to compare it to Annabelle Creation. Now, while most of the over the top scare moments didn't quite work for me (Pennywise jumping out of the projector, or rushing Billy in the basement), I still found it an effective movie because it didn't just consist of those parts. It had proper nightmarish imagery, a captivating performance by Skarsgård and characters I cared about. The jump scares were just the dessert, not the whole damn meal.
My favorite scene was the one where Eddie meets Pennywise for the first time. The shot of the pyramid of balloons conceiling Pennywise's head was just too good.
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Post by DangOlJimmyITellYouWhat on Sept 13, 2017 8:42:03 GMT -5
I have been very very leery of seeing It, because because for some reason the trailers have freaked me out beyond just "slightly creepy" or "enjoyably freaky", and since horror doesn't usually bother me, that's a big ol red flag. But HipsterDBag has well and truly talked me out of it. Bev getting kidnapped so they have to save her? Really? Fuck that shit.
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Post by Logoboros on Sept 13, 2017 14:22:29 GMT -5
I really liked it/IT. I'm a big movie re-watcher generally speaking, but there have been very few things I've seen in the past couple of years that I feel like I was really excited after seeing in the theaters to rent right away as soon as the DVD came up, much less see again in the theater (much less own -- I've bought almost no Blu-Rays of movies from the past five years that weren't basically out of a kind of fan obligation or completionist collector's streak. Mad Max: Fury Road is maybe the only one I can think of that I felt that real eagerness to rewatch).
But I'm feeling a real weird draw to go see this again -- weird because it's not like it was non-stop aesthetic bliss like Fury Road or the LotR films (which hold the record for movies I saw the most times in theaters), but more a kind of desire to analyze certain scenes and moments a bit more. I didn't feel that feeling when I left the theater, but later at home watching all the spoilerific YouTube reviews and commentaries I avoided before seeing the movie, that urge to go again began to creep in.
That said, I feel oddly irked by the incredibly high praise Skarsgård is getting. Not that he's getting praise -- he deserves praise. But the hyperbolic nature of some of that praise. I saw one discussion by horror geek site that was saying he'd created a new horror icon to displace Freddy Krueger -- a gamechanger. I thought Pennywise worked great for the movie. But I also thought he was about 30% performance and 70% special effect/production design. As a performance, I'd equate it much more to something like Kane Hodder as Jason than Robert Englund as Freddy. I thought he only barely came across as a character -- but that's fine because he doesn't have to be a character, he can be the hollow mask of a incomprehensible cosmic evil. I thought that the most amazing Pennywise moment was the universe-rattling dance he does in the wagon/stage in his lair, with maybe only the corpse-eyed slide back off the basement stairs into the water as a close second. Pennywise was an amazing image in this movie; I'm less sold on him being an amazing character (and I don't even mean that in a three-dimensional internal conflict and complex motivations way -- I just mean it was a creature performance, and a great one, more than a personality performance).
But in that same vein, I also would defend some of the effects that I've seen others criticize. There are definitely a lot of Pennywise (and other It-forms) moments that have the characteristics of rather cheap CGI or bad compositing -- they often feel unconvincingly inserted into reality. But for me, that worked as a way of giving them a nightmarish/hallucinatory quality, where they aren't quite happening in this world, where they have a touch of artificial layering over what's actually there. I like that they feel like almost like they're shot at a different framerate, like they're being projected from an old nickelodeon (lowercase n) filmstrip into the characters' world. Maybe that's just making apologies for relatively low-budget effects, but I felt it was intentional. I can also understand people getting tired of the herky-jerky monster motion effect, but again, I thought this had a slightly different style to it that made it feel just different enough from Japanese ghost movie stylization.
I'm a bit of the opposite to AB in that I really liked the leper and was underwhelmed by the Modigliani painting lady -- partly just because I've already seen Mama, where the same director used the same concept to much better effect. It definitely felt a bit like the director going, "Well, not that many people really saw Mama, and so I kind of wasted that cool idea in small movie. I'll just use it again here where more people will see it."
Having only a vague memory of the original plot, I wasn't particularly taken aback by the Bev climax (and I did have a recollection of someone being pulled back from the deadlights, so I figured that had been her, though apparently it wasn't). But I'd agree with the comments here that it seems an odd and disappointing choice -- though narratively I can see how they needed to imperil one of the losers. Maybe it is more gender conditioning speaking than the actual character dynamics, but my gut instinct is that it's harder to imagine all the others rallying to rescue anyone else with as unquestioning a sense of urgency as they would with Bev. I feel like you'd have to do more work to make it feel as believable that they're all going to band together after breaking apart in order to rescue Eddie or Ben. Bill, maybe, except that Bill was one of the prime participants in the in-fighting, so you lose the "Let's set aside our argument and rally to the cause" aspect. So I can see how the writers may have gotten there beyond just a running with a damsel in distress convention (not that "let's put aside our male ego bullshit to help a helpless one in need" isn't a traditional component of the damsel-rescue trope, too, so...).
But the real problem is how they set up her abduction. It comes at a moment of her greatest triumph. She's resisted and subdued her father. She's faced her greatest fear. By every other established rule, she should be least vulnerable to Pennywise's power at that moment. So for him to be able to grab her away then is counterintuitive. It would make more sense if she's huddled in the corner of the bathroom terrified, her father pounding on the door, about to break in, and then Pennywise rises out of the drain or something and gets her when she is feeling most threatened and alone.
Curiously, as much as I kind of want to go see this again in the theaters, I don't really feel super enthusiastic about the adult-driven Chapter 2. I kind of just want like a 4-hour director's expanded edition of this version. I liked all the kids' performances (Mike seemed a bit shortchanged by the story -- and he does actually murder somebody, albeit in justifiable self-defense, which seemed a bit glossed-over). I liked the 80s setting. I'm skeptical that the same magic is going to be there for the present-day half of the story.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 14:42:42 GMT -5
Logoboros - Great thoughts, thanks! I too liked several of the weirder off-CGI Pennywise moments, especially how bizarre his dance inside the trailer in the standpipe was, with the screen shaking. Gave it a real "WTF IS GOING ON?!" feel to it. I guess the woman from the painting worked for me because I've always been put off by warped faces like that. And you're absolutely right about the point of Bev's abduction, I didn't even think of that. If she's at her least fearful moment, that should have been the LAST time and place that Pennywise could just outright grab her.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 14:50:01 GMT -5
Logoboros, good points.
One could interpret that moment as a manifestation "Oh shit, I just killed someone" type of fear, but I will concede that that wasn't immediately apparent.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 15:01:27 GMT -5
OH, and one other thing I want to mention that, since it may count as a spoiler: If they continue the story as expected, Mike didn't actually kill Henry, he survives to terrorize the adults, but is under Pennywise's control./spoiler]
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Smacks
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Post by Smacks on Sept 13, 2017 15:11:05 GMT -5
Logoboros - Great thoughts, thanks! I too liked several of the weirder off-CGI Pennywise moments, especially how bizarre his dance inside the trailer in the standpipe was, with the screen shaking. Gave it a real "WTF IS GOING ON?!" feel to it. I guess the woman from the painting worked for me because I've always been put off by warped faces like that. And you're absolutely right about the point of Bev's abduction, I didn't even think of that. If she's at her least fearful moment, that should have been the LAST time and place that Pennywise could just outright grab her. I have a lot of thoughts (as a fanatic of the original 'movie') but I did want to jump in for now and say some of the CGI moments didn't work for me but MOST did. The way he extricated himself from being all folded up in that freezer made my insides crawl. The marionette like movements, so good. Tim Curry is fantastic, but it's hard for me to compare them because it's almost two different characters to me.
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Post by Logoboros on Sept 13, 2017 15:19:19 GMT -5
Oh, a couple of other little complaints (not sure why I feel like I have to get them off my chest instead of focusing on what I enjoyed, but that seems to be the modern internet pop culture critic's dilemma):
Given that the movie otherwise does a pretty good job with making the world feel realistic outside of Pennywise's incursions, I was irritated that the kids were able to clean that bathroom so effectively in apparently a fairly limited amount of time. The entire ceiling was coated in blood. It took me out of the reality of the movie for a moment.
Similarly (and I think someone here or on the AV Club comments had the same complaint about from the trailer), I didn't love how the House of Niebold Street was basically a Disneyland version of a haunted house. I think they went a little overboard on it. Maybe it reflects a bit of that reality-skewing Pennywise influence over the location, but the crooked dead tree in the yard and the very grocery-store-bought cobwebs... it was all a bit much.
And not a complaint but just an observation: do you suppose the pharmacist and Eddie's mother were meant to look alike? Granted, most of the adults in the movie were filmed with a kind of gross greasy sheen that made them look like pedophiles, but even rewatching clips online, I had a moment's thought that some CGI or make-up trickery was involved to put the same facial features on both characters. Also, that seemed like it might explain why they put the actress playing Eddie's mother in a rather unconvincing fat suit (so, bit of a complaint in here after all). I guess they just wanted to make her extra gross, but it did make me wonder if there was something happening with an actor playing multiple roles or some kind of deliberate make-up effect going on.
Also, I really hope I'm right that they padded up the actress with some rather cheesy padding, because if not, I guess I'm just a terrible and insensitive person.
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Post by Logoboros on Sept 13, 2017 15:23:28 GMT -5
I have a lot of thoughts (as a fanatic of the original 'movie') but I did want to jump in for now and say some of the CGI moments didn't work for me but MOST did. The way he extricated himself from being all folded up in that freezer made my insides crawl. The marionette like movements, so good. Tim Curry is fantastic, but it's hard for me to compare them because it's almost two different characters to me. I would admit that one major CGI effect that didn't really work for me (and it's unfortunate, since it comes at a pretty key moment) is Pennywise biting Georgie's arm. That one actually needed to look real, and it didn't (or not for me, anyway). And the way the bite was executed didn't really look like it ought to have severed the arm, either, which made the next moment strange. I'm not sure the end of the scene worked especially well, which is a tough one to get past since it's a major scene and right at the start of the movie.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 15:32:17 GMT -5
Again, this may play into it more in Part 2, but as I recall, didn't Mr. Keane show up in the adults' version as a withered old man and/or Pennywise, while his son ran the pharmacy? Maybe they're setting that up for the future. As for Eddie's mom, I don't remember other than she was weird in the book.
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Sept 13, 2017 15:46:24 GMT -5
The shot of Pennywise biting Georgie looked fake to me too, but the subsequent shot of Pennywise's arm reaching out of the sewer saved the scene for me.
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Post by 🔪 silly buns on Sept 17, 2017 8:58:14 GMT -5
I really found it to be more of a comedy and not scary. The audience I saw it with laughed whenever Pennywise scurried after anyone. And though I found Georgie crawling around with one arm disturbing, the child actor wasn't really doing a good job of experiencing the pain, so this like most scenes would have been better if they hadn't shown all the gore and just implied.
Yeah, turning Beth into a damsel after she smashed her dad's face was not the best move.
Also, I did not need a scene where a bunch of kids were in their underwear.
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Post by Pedantic Editor Type on Sept 17, 2017 13:08:57 GMT -5
I thought IT was great. The kids were great. Nice sense of dread.
I do wish they hadn't danced around the race issues, honestly. I don't have so much of a problem with Bev's kidnapping, she was treated much worse in the book. Pennywise took her because he couldn't kill her outright, because she wasn't afraid. I mean, the whole point was they had to stick together.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 13:29:07 GMT -5
I thought IT was great. The kids were great. Nice sense of dread. I do wish they hadn't danced around the race issues, honestly. I don't have so much of a problem with Bev's kidnapping, she was treated much worse in the book. Pennywise took her because he couldn't kill her outright, because she wasn't afraid. I mean, the whole point was they had to stick together. I agree on the Bev kidnapping. It felt more like pennywise took Bev because she was the biggest threat in the group. She was the most confident and the one who really pushed for going after Pennywise. Pennywise decided to get her while the group was broken up because it was the best shot.
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Post by Incense on Sept 20, 2017 9:33:55 GMT -5
I remembered this conversation while watching it last night, and it seemed to me that Pennywise went after Bev because Bev's the one who got in a nasty shot at him in the house on Niebolt Street. She rammed that thing through his head and drove him off right when he was about to have all of them where he wanted them. He had a grudge against her. Agreed, @matt1, he gets rid of the one who's brave enough to ram something into his head, he can get at the others much more easily.
The imagery was fantastic. I got the things I wanted; well cast kids (Ben and Eddie were especially endearing), the town history with Pennywise lurking among the historic photos, a truly terrifying house on Niebolt Street, and the feel of the town being simultaneously sunlit and normal and dark and sinister. Stan (and Eddie to a lesser extent) were as brittle and close to breaking as they should be, Richie, as ever, is a tiresome ass, and Pennywise was very well done/acted. Several times, I was actually scared, which never seems to happen anymore in the movies.
The only person in the whole thing that I recognized was Mike's grandpa - Steven Williams. I'd never watched anything Skarsgard's been in before.
I didn't mind the change to the '80s at all, in fact, I'd thought of the kids' story as an intrinsically '50s story before and the change didn't matter a bit, so I was wrong about that.
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Smacks
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Post by Smacks on Sept 20, 2017 11:54:08 GMT -5
I really found it to be more of a comedy and not scary. The audience I saw it with laughed whenever Pennywise scurried after anyone. And though I found Georgie crawling around with one arm disturbing, the child actor wasn't really doing a good job of experiencing the pain, so this like most scenes would have been better if they hadn't shown all the gore and just implied. Yeah, turning Beth into a damsel after she smashed her dad's face was not the best move. Also, I did not need a scene where a bunch of kids were in their underwear. I get the reality of the fact that a bunch of 13-14 year old boys would be falling in love with any girl that hung out with them, and the swimming scene ended up being sort of sweet once they all got in the water. But the whole thing with the shots of her peeling her dress off and the boys staring.....ugh. It made it seem like she was way older and attempting to be seductive and I'm like 'fuck that can she just be a kid, too?'. Bev in the miniseries was as awkward and scared as the boys were, not some cool, smoking older-than-her-years persona. I didn't like that.
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Post by dwarfoscar on Sept 24, 2017 15:44:44 GMT -5
Finally saw it. It was good enough, not a waste of a €10 bill. I agree with many things you guys said, especially the unwelcome 'damsel-in-distress' addition, and the 'DisneyLand haunted ride' feel that Logoboros mentioned. Not just the Niebold Street house by the way, the whole movie. I just might be too old for this movie. They can R-rate it all they want, this is a horror movie for kids. A very very scary horror movie for kids. I'm guessing the second movie will deliver a subtler, more adult, horror. I don't remember if the book ends the same way, inside the well. Is the 'floating bodies' part in the book ? Are we to assume all the kids aren't dead and will wake up now that It's back in hibernation mode ?
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