Crash Test Dumbass
AV Clubber 
ffc what now
Posts: 7,058
Gender (additional): mostly snacks
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Post by Crash Test Dumbass on Feb 7, 2018 9:11:44 GMT -5
I know that 1 is singular, and every other positive number is plural (let's not get into zero for now), but I'm unsure linguistically if -1 is singular or plural. Like, do I have "negative one thing" or "negative one things"?
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Post by 🔪 silly buns on Feb 7, 2018 9:25:05 GMT -5
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Post by Dr. Rumak on Feb 7, 2018 10:23:18 GMT -5
I know that 1 is singular, and every other positive number is plural (let's not get into zero for now), but I'm unsure linguistically if -1 is singular or plural. Like, do I have "negative one thing" or "negative one things"? I need a picture. Show me a picture of someone holding negative one cats. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 10:31:30 GMT -5
Either way, it's still a single unit of something.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Feb 7, 2018 11:35:57 GMT -5
Hodor
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Trurl
Shoutbox Elitist 
Posts: 7,495
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Post by Trurl on Feb 7, 2018 17:33:46 GMT -5
Schrodinger has i cats.
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Post by sarapen on Feb 7, 2018 19:38:36 GMT -5
Shaka, when the walls fell.
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Post by The Larch on Feb 7, 2018 20:25:14 GMT -5
Mathematically, it is singular, negative one is the same as minus one, and you would say "minus one thing".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 21:12:35 GMT -5
Wait, Crash, are you taking into account other negative numbers?
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Trurl
Shoutbox Elitist
Posts: 7,495
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Post by Trurl on Feb 7, 2018 21:19:36 GMT -5
Shaka, when the walls fell. Man, that episode was when I truly gave up on TNG |
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Post by Floyd D Barber on Feb 7, 2018 22:02:37 GMT -5
It's the loneliest number
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Post by Liz n Dick on Feb 8, 2018 10:50:34 GMT -5
Shaka, when the walls fell. Man, that episode was when I truly gave up on TNG You need to take that shit to the Unpopular Opinions page, because that episode is PURE, CONCENTRATED BRILLIANCE. |
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Trurl
Shoutbox Elitist
Posts: 7,495
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Post by Trurl on Feb 8, 2018 11:54:41 GMT -5
Man, that episode was when I truly gave up on TNG You need to take that shit to the Unpopular Opinions page, because that episode is PURE, CONCENTRATED BRILLIANCE. The TNG writers understanding of linguistics was about as good as their understanding of AI. There are interesting things to say about the limits of the universal translator but this ep is utter nonsense. Look at the quote there - it's supposed to be a language only made of metaphors, but really it's just a regular language (with direct signifiers like "Shaka" and "wall") with a lot of culture-specific references. Like all languages. Complex culture references eventually become words which skip the reference part and become their own direct signifiers of meaning. Take a word like "Machiavellian" - it's connection to Machiavelli is only secondary now, when someone uses the word they mean duplicitous and underhanded. A really good chunk of language is like this - even a word like "language" is based on a root meaning "tongue", a metaphor. So this whole "the universal translator can't deal with a language that's actually like all other languages" is just infuriating. |
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Post by Liz n Dick on Feb 8, 2018 12:15:45 GMT -5
The TNG writers understanding of linguistics was about as good as their understanding of AI. There are interesting things to say about the limits of the universal translator but this ep is utter nonsense. Look at the quote there - it's supposed to be a language only made of metaphors, but really it's just a regular language (with direct signifiers like "Shaka" and "wall") with a lot of culture-specific references. Like all languages. Complex culture references eventually become words which skip the reference part and become their own direct signifiers of meaning. Take a word like "Machiavellian" - it's connection to Machiavelli is only secondary now, when someone uses the word they mean duplicitous and underhanded. A really good chunk of language is like this - even a word like "language" is based on a root meaning "tongue", a metaphor. So this whole "the universal translator can't deal with a language that's actually like all other languages" is just infuriating. LA LA LA LA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU! Heh. But seriously, yes, the "language" is nonsensical and doesn't hold up to any serious scrutiny. But I love the story the episode tells and the performances of both captains are so wonderful and it gets me in the feels, and I'm not even remotely a hard sci-fi person so that's all that matters to me. SO THERE! |
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Trurl
Shoutbox Elitist
Posts: 7,495
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Post by Trurl on Feb 8, 2018 13:24:14 GMT -5
The TNG writers understanding of linguistics was about as good as their understanding of AI. There are interesting things to say about the limits of the universal translator but this ep is utter nonsense. Look at the quote there - it's supposed to be a language only made of metaphors, but really it's just a regular language (with direct signifiers like "Shaka" and "wall") with a lot of culture-specific references. Like all languages. Complex culture references eventually become words which skip the reference part and become their own direct signifiers of meaning. Take a word like "Machiavellian" - it's connection to Machiavelli is only secondary now, when someone uses the word they mean duplicitous and underhanded. A really good chunk of language is like this - even a word like "language" is based on a root meaning "tongue", a metaphor. So this whole "the universal translator can't deal with a language that's actually like all other languages" is just infuriating. LA LA LA LA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU! Heh. But seriously, yes, the "language" is nonsensical and doesn't hold up to any serious scrutiny. But I love the story the episode tells and the performances of both captains are so wonderful and it gets me in the feels, and I'm not even remotely a hard sci-fi person so that's all that matters to me. SO THERE! You do have me there. If only the other character relations were as good as Stewart and whoever Stewart was acting against I could probably find more forgiveness for the show. |
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