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Post by Generic Poster on Nov 18, 2015 17:27:30 GMT -5
Regarding the climate conversation, I've never understood why "moisture farming" is necessary on Tatooine given that space travel seems to be fast and relatively inexpensive. Why doesn't somebody just go to a different planet, fill a tanker with water and deliver it to Tatooine farmers on a scheduled basis? Am I over-simplifying the issue? Energy seems abundant and cheap, so it seems like they could easily just mash hydrogen and oxygen together |
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Post by Generic Poster on Nov 18, 2015 17:30:19 GMT -5
Didn't they make a comic series out of the original draft of the script? Is that still available somewhere? Did I just imagine it? They did, it wasn't great "It wasn't great" is one of the greatest understatements of all time. It was completely unreadable. Regarding Griveous, the cartoon and the comics made him out to be an unstoppable badass. Then, in ROTS, Kenobi punks him pretty effortlessly. Similar to Boba Fett and his 3 Stooges-esque death in ROTJ. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 18:01:34 GMT -5
Grievous is a cyborg of the Kaleesh race: KaleeshMore information not made clear in the films/cartoon, or created after the fact possibly. In the Old Republic (such as SWTOR), the Kaleesh frequently wear masks similar to Grievous' head design, so by reverse logic his cyborg droid body was created to look like a more imposing version of a Kaleesh warrior. |
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Nov 18, 2015 19:20:59 GMT -5
Let's say Disney decides to remake the prequels. Who should they cast?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 3:37:16 GMT -5
I've always liked the way Qui Gon died in TPM. It wasn't some big dramatic telegraphed thing, it was a simple slip in his guard and he gets stunned and then stabbed, all in the matter of like 2 seconds. It was succinct and effective.
One thing I always disliked about in TPM, anakin being immaculately conceived, no....... just no. Make the dad a moisture farmer who died and was nothing special, anything is better than that. He can be the chosen one and all that, but the force basically being his father? Too weird.
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Post by nowimnothing on Nov 19, 2015 9:01:15 GMT -5
I've always liked the way Qui Gon died in TPM. It wasn't some big dramatic telegraphed thing, it was a simple slip in his guard and he gets stunned and then stabbed, all in the matter of like 2 seconds. It was succinct and effective. One thing I always disliked about in TPM, anakin being immaculately conceived, no....... just no. Make the dad a moisture farmer who died and was nothing special, anything is better than that. He can be the chosen one and all that, but the force basically being his father? Too weird. Eh, it was poorly set-up but he had to have something miraculous about his conception to fit into the Joseph Campbell hero template that Lucas was following all along. They should have had it that his mother found him "in the reeds" like Moses. Then there could be some mystery maintained and a few hints that one way or another Palpatine had orchestrated his birth given the knowledge he gained from Plagueis. (Which is kind of what happens in the Plagueis novel, just remove Shmi from the actual birth itself.) |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 20:06:56 GMT -5
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Post by Return of the Thin Olive Duke on Nov 20, 2015 1:01:16 GMT -5
I've always liked the way Qui Gon died in TPM. It wasn't some big dramatic telegraphed thing, it was a simple slip in his guard and he gets stunned and then stabbed, all in the matter of like 2 seconds. It was succinct and effective. One thing I always disliked about in TPM, anakin being immaculately conceived, no....... just no. Make the dad a moisture farmer who died and was nothing special, anything is better than that. He can be the chosen one and all that, but the force basically being his father? Too weird. Eh, it was poorly set-up but he had to have something miraculous about his conception to fit into the Joseph Campbell hero template that Lucas was following all along. They should have had it that his mother found him "in the reeds" like Moses. Then there could be some mystery maintained and a few hints that one way or another Palpatine had orchestrated his birth given the knowledge he gained from Plagueis. (Which is kind of what happens in the Plagueis novel, just remove Shmi from the actual birth itself.) Plagueis being Palpatine's master really bothers me. The movie makes it seem like a genuine legend, really opening the world of Star Wars for the first time in the prequels, only for the EU to expand on it in the least imaginative, most small-minded way possible. |
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Nov 20, 2015 2:03:39 GMT -5
Eh, it was poorly set-up but he had to have something miraculous about his conception to fit into the Joseph Campbell hero template that Lucas was following all along. They should have had it that his mother found him "in the reeds" like Moses. Then there could be some mystery maintained and a few hints that one way or another Palpatine had orchestrated his birth given the knowledge he gained from Plagueis. (Which is kind of what happens in the Plagueis novel, just remove Shmi from the actual birth itself.) Plagueis being Palpatine's master really bothers me. The movie makes it seem like a genuine legend, really opening the world of Star Wars for the first time in the prequels, only for the EU to expand on it in the least imaginative, most small-minded way possible. I agree 100%. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 13:01:35 GMT -5
Eh, it was poorly set-up but he had to have something miraculous about his conception to fit into the Joseph Campbell hero template that Lucas was following all along. They should have had it that his mother found him "in the reeds" like Moses. Then there could be some mystery maintained and a few hints that one way or another Palpatine had orchestrated his birth given the knowledge he gained from Plagueis. (Which is kind of what happens in the Plagueis novel, just remove Shmi from the actual birth itself.) Plagueis being Palpatine's master really bothers me. The movie makes it seem like a genuine legend, really opening the world of Star Wars for the first time in the prequels, only for the EU to expand on it in the least imaginative, most small-minded way possible. Could you explain what you mean? |
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Post by Return of the Thin Olive Duke on Nov 20, 2015 13:24:55 GMT -5
Plagueis being Palpatine's master really bothers me. The movie makes it seem like a genuine legend, really opening the world of Star Wars for the first time in the prequels, only for the EU to expand on it in the least imaginative, most small-minded way possible. Could you explain what you mean? Okay, you have this scene in the film, which is pretty good in itself, and you're hearing the story and thinking "wow, finally the Star Wars universe is opening up, expanding its world in a bigger way than just showing us snippets of exotic planets." Think about it; it's the first time in the films that some history is being given that isn't directly related to the characters on screen. And then it's retconned in the EU to be about the characters on screen. It's the same problem as Leia being Luke's sister, an irrelevant point that only makes the galaxy of the films seem smaller. You know how Lord of the Rings has lots and lots of seemingly extraneous digressions that are unrelated to the plot, but aren't wasted time because they fill out the characters and settings? Lucas (or the EU writers he gave the go-ahead to) seemed to think that if it wasn't immediately relevant to what was happening on screen, it didn't matter. And while someone who just parsed through an introductory book on screenwriting might come to that conclusion, it just isn't true. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 13:42:31 GMT -5
It's the same problem as Leia being Luke's sister, an irrelevant point that only makes the galaxy of the films seem smaller. You know how Lord of the Rings has lots and lots of seemingly extraneous digressions that are unrelated to the plot, but aren't wasted time because they fill out the characters and settings? Lucas (or the EU writers he gave the go-ahead to) seemed to think that if it wasn't immediately relevant to what was happening on screen, it didn't matter. And while someone who just parsed through an introductory book on screenwriting might come to that conclusion, it just isn't true. BINGO. "I'm your father. She's your sister. I built that droid!" An entire, massive galaxy reduced to Six Degrees of Anakin Skywalker. |
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Post by Hawkguy on Nov 20, 2015 13:56:31 GMT -5
Could you explain what you mean? Okay, you have this scene in the film, which is pretty good in itself, and you're hearing the story and thinking "wow, finally the Star Wars universe is opening up, expanding its world in a bigger way than just showing us snippets of exotic planets." Think about it; it's the first time in the films that some history is being given that isn't directly related to the characters on screen. And then it's retconned in the EU to be about the characters on screen. It's the same problem as Leia being Luke's sister, an irrelevant point that only makes the galaxy of the films seem smaller. You know how Lord of the Rings has lots and lots of seemingly extraneous digressions that are unrelated to the plot, but aren't wasted time because they fill out the characters and settings? Lucas (or the EU writers he gave the go-ahead to) seemed to think that if it wasn't immediately relevant to what was happening on screen, it didn't matter. And while someone who just parsed through an introductory book on screenwriting might come to that conclusion, it just isn't true. I get that though with Palpatine's Plagueis story I thought the implication that Palpatine was the apprentice was pretty clear from the movie... |
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Nov 20, 2015 14:21:29 GMT -5
Okay, you have this scene in the film, which is pretty good in itself, and you're hearing the story and thinking "wow, finally the Star Wars universe is opening up, expanding its world in a bigger way than just showing us snippets of exotic planets." Think about it; it's the first time in the films that some history is being given that isn't directly related to the characters on screen. And then it's retconned in the EU to be about the characters on screen. It's the same problem as Leia being Luke's sister, an irrelevant point that only makes the galaxy of the films seem smaller. You know how Lord of the Rings has lots and lots of seemingly extraneous digressions that are unrelated to the plot, but aren't wasted time because they fill out the characters and settings? Lucas (or the EU writers he gave the go-ahead to) seemed to think that if it wasn't immediately relevant to what was happening on screen, it didn't matter. And while someone who just parsed through an introductory book on screenwriting might come to that conclusion, it just isn't true. I get that though with Palpatine's Plagueis story I thought the implication that Palpatine was the apprentice was pretty clear from the movie... Me too, but I interpreted it as meaning that Palpatine is like 1,000 years old. |
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Post by nowimnothing on Nov 20, 2015 15:22:46 GMT -5
It's the same problem as Leia being Luke's sister, an irrelevant point that only makes the galaxy of the films seem smaller. You know how Lord of the Rings has lots and lots of seemingly extraneous digressions that are unrelated to the plot, but aren't wasted time because they fill out the characters and settings? Lucas (or the EU writers he gave the go-ahead to) seemed to think that if it wasn't immediately relevant to what was happening on screen, it didn't matter. And while someone who just parsed through an introductory book on screenwriting might come to that conclusion, it just isn't true. BINGO. "I'm your father. She's your sister. I built that droid!" An entire, massive galaxy reduced to Six Degrees of Anakin Skywalker. That never bothered me because the whole series is built on the interconnections. It all goes back to The Hero's Journey. Everything is all about the hero. Like it or not, Anakin is that hero when you factor in all 6 films. Plus we get: "I have a bad feeling about this" and "It's not my fault!" Even more repetition and connective tissue. It may not be the best storytelling device but I think it was intentional. |
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Post by Return of the Thin Olive Duke on Nov 20, 2015 16:12:32 GMT -5
It's the same problem as Leia being Luke's sister, an irrelevant point that only makes the galaxy of the films seem smaller. You know how Lord of the Rings has lots and lots of seemingly extraneous digressions that are unrelated to the plot, but aren't wasted time because they fill out the characters and settings? Lucas (or the EU writers he gave the go-ahead to) seemed to think that if it wasn't immediately relevant to what was happening on screen, it didn't matter. And while someone who just parsed through an introductory book on screenwriting might come to that conclusion, it just isn't true. BINGO. "I'm your father. She's your sister. I built that droid!" An entire, massive galaxy reduced to Six Degrees of Anakin Skywalker. And of course this has been infecting books and movies ever since. Harry Potter (which gets kind of a pass for mirroring British aristocracy, but is still kind of obnoxious). Hell, Men in Black 3 would've been an even bigger improvement had it not forced in J's out-of-nowhere daddy issues in the last five minutes (always the third movie that does this). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 1:35:51 GMT -5
Rewatched attack of the clones today, the dialogue and directing just kill what the movie tries to do. Once again the basis for the story is fine, this could have worked. Just the execution was sorely lacking. People put a lot of blame on Christensen, but it really was Lucas not being an adequate writer. Dialogue has never been his strong suit, and it is at its worst here. Hard for any actor to pull off the lines he had to say here.
Attack of the clones is what I consider the worst of the six, but I do find myself warming up to it as the years go by, mostly because I like the idea of what was trying to be accomplished. Too bad Lucas couldn't make it happen though.
One thing I always liked about attack. The tuskun raider scene. It is probably the best acting Christensen did in the prequels, and big shocker it was because he really only had to show emotion as his mom died in his arms. The follow up scene with him talking to padmae not so much, but it is hard for someone to pull off I HATE THEM SO MUCH. The score is also really great, the little moment of vaders theme in the background as windu and Yoda talk about anakin being in pain, subtle. Also, when anakin and padmae kiss for the first time and their is romantic music, but the moment she stops the music stops as well. It is like a record scratch, hilarious.
One thing I always disliked. That goddamn archive librarian(I think the clone wars cartoon revealed her to be a jedi, but I can't remember exactly though). "If it's not in our records it doesn't exist". Kamino DID exist you arrogant fuck. If yoda seems cool with the archives not having everything then you should be. Also, that implies that the jedi have archived the whole galaxy at this point. Which seems super impossible. Even for an order that had been around 1000 years. Also, anakin just straight up stole 3po from his stepdad and brother. I know you built 3PO for your mom and she is dead, but your stepdad lost a leg and there is no one to replace the work your mom was doing on the moisture farm. Kinda dickish to steal their protocol droid. Also, speaking of your stepdad, kinds weird to buy a slave and then fall in love with them. Like I know tatooine is different, but being a slave owner is still fucked up. I hope it was more like he met her. They fell in love but couldn't do anything because she was still watto's slave and he only bought her with the purpose of setting her free.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Nov 22, 2015 20:56:35 GMT -5
Wife and I bought our tickets this morning. Because we are olds, we'll be seeing in that first Sunday, at 9:00 am. It'll b 3D IMAX, which we're doing because I figure it's worth putting up with 3D to get IMAX.
I really hope this is good.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Nov 22, 2015 22:11:18 GMT -5
Going back to the plausibility of Hoth/Tatooine, what about fucking Naboo having a core of made of water that's cool enough to support enormous fucking fish things? Like that's some B-movie stupid implausibility, right?
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Post by Ben Grimm on Nov 22, 2015 22:15:00 GMT -5
Going back to the plausibility of Hoth/Tatooine, what about fucking Naboo having a core of made of water that's cool enough to support enormous fucking fish things? Like that's some B-movie stupid implausibility, right? I always assumed it was just an underground ocean that didn't go anywhere near the core and that they only went a few hundred miles. |
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Nov 22, 2015 22:17:10 GMT -5
Going back to the plausibility of Hoth/Tatooine, what about fucking Naboo having a core of made of water that's cool enough to support enormous fucking fish things? Like that's some B-movie stupid implausibility, right? I always assumed it was just an underground ocean that didn't go anywhere near the core and that they only went a few hundred miles. But doesn't King Racist Stereotype Man say "The only way to Naboo is through the plaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanet core"? |
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Post by Ben Grimm on Nov 22, 2015 22:33:26 GMT -5
I always assumed it was just an underground ocean that didn't go anywhere near the core and that they only went a few hundred miles. But doesn't King Racist Stereotype Man say "The only way to Naboo is through the plaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanet core"? Unless I see his degree in planetary geology from Naboo State University, I'm going to assume that he's as useless and incompetent at science as he is at literally everything else. |
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Post by Return of the Thin Olive Duke on Nov 23, 2015 2:41:20 GMT -5
Going back to the plausibility of Hoth/Tatooine, what about fucking Naboo having a core of made of water that's cool enough to support enormous fucking fish things? Like that's some B-movie stupid implausibility, right? Weirder is that you can enter through a low-lying swamp and come out in a river above the fall line, right behind a waterfall, with no effect on the river's course. |
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Nov 23, 2015 6:53:01 GMT -5
One thing I always disliked. That goddamn archive librarian(I think the clone wars cartoon revealed her to be a jedi, but I can't remember exactly though). "If it's not in our records it doesn't exist". Kamino DID exist you arrogant fuck. If yoda seems cool with the archives not having everything then you should be. Also, that implies that the jedi have archived the whole galaxy at this point. Which seems super impossible. Even for an order that had been around 1000 years. I don't see why it's impossible for the Jedi to have archived the entire galaxy over the span of that time. Consider how much we know about our galaxy, even planets in other solar systems, in a much shorter period of time and without ever leaving our solar system. It would be very like a geographer today saying that an island that doesn't exist on the most recent and exhaustive maps of the world does not exist. |
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Post by nowimnothing on Nov 23, 2015 8:25:47 GMT -5
One thing I always disliked. That goddamn archive librarian(I think the clone wars cartoon revealed her to be a jedi, but I can't remember exactly though). "If it's not in our records it doesn't exist". Kamino DID exist you arrogant fuck. If yoda seems cool with the archives not having everything then you should be. Also, that implies that the jedi have archived the whole galaxy at this point. Which seems super impossible. Even for an order that had been around 1000 years. I don't see why it's impossible for the Jedi to have archived the entire galaxy over the span of that time. Consider how much we know about our galaxy, even planets in other solar systems, in a much shorter period of time and without ever leaving our solar system. It would be very like a geographer today saying that an island that doesn't exist on the most recent and exhaustive maps of the world does not exist. Plus it plays into the arrogance of the Jedi. I have always said that Yoda is the worst Jedi master in history. There is a reason he is in exile living in a swamp and most of it is his own fault. 1. He sees danger in Anakin but allows himself to be persuaded by Obi Wan. 2. He fails to recognize a Sith master moving up the governmental ranks for decades. 3. He falls right into the Clone War trap and allows the Jedi to become involved in a galactic civil war. 4. When Anakin comes to him, he gives him philosophy and empty platitudes. 5. He sends Obi Wan away??? And then loses to Palpatine one on one. Couldn't they have taken them one at a time? I think this all comes back as he initially refuses to train Luke. Of course Obi Wan has no other choice and is able to persuade him again. But Yoda knows he is a big fuckup and is afraid he will do so again. He gives Luke the basics but he still is not that good at teaching how to resist the dark side. He tells Luke not to go after his friends but Luke ignores him just like Anakin did. The only reason Palpatine cannot turn Luke is that he has little leverage on him. He came out of left field. Once they find out who he is, he knows that he must turn him or kill him. Vader finally gets some leverage with Leia but it is too little too late. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 8:53:08 GMT -5
One thing I always disliked. That goddamn archive librarian(I think the clone wars cartoon revealed her to be a jedi, but I can't remember exactly though). "If it's not in our records it doesn't exist". Kamino DID exist you arrogant fuck. If yoda seems cool with the archives not having everything then you should be. Also, that implies that the jedi have archived the whole galaxy at this point. Which seems super impossible. Even for an order that had been around 1000 years. I don't see why it's impossible for the Jedi to have archived the entire galaxy over the span of that time. Consider how much we know about our galaxy, even planets in other solar systems, in a much shorter period of time and without ever leaving our solar system. It would be very like a geographer today saying that an island that doesn't exist on the most recent and exhaustive maps of the world does not exist. it isn't planets but species of alien and Flora, not to mention tech and everything else. |
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Nov 23, 2015 9:31:52 GMT -5
The subject is a planet, @matt1; not a plant. I believe that's the context of the quote - Obi-Wan was not seeking information on the Kaminoan people, just their planet. And nowimnothing, to be fair, Yoda was not swayed by Obi-Wan. He flatly tells Obi-Wan he was against his appeal to train the boy and recommended against it but he was outvoted on the Council. Yoda may have made quite a few questionable judgement calls (waiting in a swamp on the off chance one of Anakin Skywalker's kids would be better at killing the Emperor than he was is kind of a terrible plan) but you cannot at least pin that on him. |
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Nov 23, 2015 9:38:49 GMT -5
The subject is a planet, @matt1 ; not a plant. I believe that's the context of the quote - Obi-Wan was not seeking information on the Kaminoan people, just their planet. And nowimnothing , to be fair, Yoda was not swayed by Obi-Wan. He flatly tells Obi-Wan he was against his appeal to train the boy and recommended against it but he was outvoted on the Council. Yoda may have made quite a few questionable judgement calls (waiting in a swamp on the off chance one of Anakin Skywalker's kids would be better at killing the Emperor than he was is kind of a terrible plan) but you cannot at least pin that on him. It's been a long time since I've actually sat down and watched Sith, so forgive if I've forgotten some crucial bit of dialogue, but was this really the plan? Or was it just what ended up happening because the events of A New Hope screwed everything up and set a bunch of unforeseen events in motion? |
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Nov 23, 2015 9:42:40 GMT -5
Superb Owl 🦉 I'm just assuming this was the plan based on Empire where Obi-Wan goes 'That boy was our last hope' and Yoda goes 'No... there is another,' no actual plan was given in Revenge of the Sith, beyond Yoda clueing in Obi-Wan that force ghosting is a good thing to train on. It's entirely possible Yoda spent the last twenty years psychically searching for remaining Jedi or whatever but if we just look at the movies he doesn't seem to have a more tangible plot than the one I suggested.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Nov 23, 2015 9:54:16 GMT -5
Superb Owl 🦉 I'm just assuming this was the plan based on Empire where Obi-Wan goes 'That boy was our last hope' and Yoda goes 'No... there is another,' no actual plan was given in Revenge of the Sith, beyond Yoda clueing in Obi-Wan that force ghosting is a good thing to train on. It's entirely possible Yoda spent the last twenty years psychically searching for remaining Jedi or whatever but if we just look at the movies he doesn't seem to have a more tangible plot than the one I suggested. But it doesn't seem obvious that Obi-Wan is approaching his fight with Vader as a suicide mission. I guess I always assumed that the intent was to keep Luke and Leia separate as long as possible to make sure they were 100% ready for training and not showing obvious signs of becoming dark side rage monsters like pops. So the beginning of ANH would be just about hitting the time that Obi-Wan would come to take Luke off Tattooine and have Bail bring Leia to Dagobah as well so they can train up the twins and go after Vader/Palpatine as a quartet.
Then of course the giant planet killing laser shoots a bunch of holes in that plan.
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