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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on May 18, 2015 3:40:42 GMT -5
Put me down in the “he didn’t make it” camp, with the Coke commercial just being an ironic juxtaposition (per Pear’s first paragraph). We’d have to call Don’s mounting feelings of insignificance a creative rut, ignore Bert’s ghost dance, and jettison that goodbye to Peggy. That goodbye is the clincher for me—it’s not just a goodbye to Peggy, but very much a goodbye to Don (who’s already been neutralized as a potential father by Betty). He’s Dick, not Don, for most of the time we see him in this episode—the whole finale is him getting rid of Don and getting rid of Dick (his connection with the original Draper household—the last person who knows him as Dick—leaves). In a sense Don’s right when he says you can leave it behind, you can move on. My Buddhism’s shaky, but I do recall how The Dream of the Red Chamber plays out. Its protagonist is Jia Baoyu (“Jia” being a Chinese pun on precious and false—the later echoes “Draper” to my mind), and it’s a big meandering story about the decline of a big wealthy household (a bit like a business) of which Baoyu is the scion. It ends with Baoyu becoming a monk, letting his old life, loves and identity go. That’s what we see with Don. It’s appropriate that a show about false identities has its protagonist feeling subsumed into nature at the end. I don’t think that Weiner necessarily intended that parallel, but it’s what comes to mind. Anyway, I thought it was a brilliant finale—watched it over breakfast and my heart’s still a-flutter over it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 4:29:18 GMT -5
I really, REALLY like this guy's interpretation. EXACTLY.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 4:36:24 GMT -5
Obviously it's open to interpretation, and deliberately so. Ribbon girl? Eh, probably many many young women braided their hair that way - that's why it showed up in an ad for as ubiquitous a product as Coca-Cola. You see Peggy furiously typing away, with Stan there to support her - there's no reason to assume it was Don's work over theirs. But that's the beauty of it, yeah? Leaving things open and letting them go, things left to personal interpretation. Connecting emotionally with an audience, involving them in the outcome. Sorry for the sentence fragments, just trying to get it down. I'm satisfied - it felt like an ending that works. Yes, but one of them was prominently featured in a scene minutes before the ending, and we can probably assume that Don saw more than one girl with that style in his days at the retreat. I think the smile at the end was Don finding his happiness within himself: his creativity, which then turned this beautiful moment into a money-making machine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 4:47:05 GMT -5
Put me down in the “he didn’t make it” camp, with the Coke commercial just being an ironic juxtaposition (per Pear’s first paragraph). We’d have to call Don’s mounting feelings of insignificance a creative rut, ignore Bert’s ghost dance, and jettison that goodbye to Peggy. That goodbye is the clincher for me—it’s not just a goodbye to Peggy, but very much a goodbye to Don (who’s already been neutralized as a potential father by Betty). He’s Dick, not Don, for most of the time we see him in this episode—the whole finale is him getting rid of Don and getting rid of Dick (his connection with the original Draper household—the last person who knows him as Dick—leaves). No one's prolly going to have their mind changed about this finale, but for what it's worth, I think he finally reconciled Dick and Don. He's not tortured anymore. And we don't have to ignore Bert's dance, and his goodbye to Peggy. He says "see you *soon" before he hangs up! *I can't remember the exact line, even after watching it four times, but it's something like that.
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on May 18, 2015 4:49:22 GMT -5
You’ve never seen “see you soon” to someone you’ll probably never see again?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 4:56:22 GMT -5
You’ve never seen “see you soon” to someone you’ll probably never see again? No. Also, he's going to be in New York soon, anyway, for Betty's funeral, or at least to see Sally. Why wouldn't he see Peggy, too?
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Post by pairesta on May 18, 2015 6:45:49 GMT -5
My initial reaction is that I didn't like it. I'm reading all the insightful comments, and the typically excellent John Teti analysis, hoping to turn that opinion around. But it was too fan-service-y in parts (Peggy and Stan). We checked back in with too many characters that had really gotten a perfect send off already. I'd have liked more Don, honestly. My initial read of it was that he created the ad. My wife took the bent that it was just a cynical comment on commercialism co-opting happiness. My problem though is that I didn't buy either version. Don wouldn't and couldn't go back to McCann; it seemed like a betrayal of his entire arc the past two seasons in particular, but certainly the entire show. But I also don't buy that he'd find bliss and happiness at some hippie resort. He'd see through that in a second. Plus it just seems to Forrest Gump of him partaking in some famous social movement at the time.
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Post by Ron Howard Voice on May 18, 2015 8:02:48 GMT -5
But it was too fan-service-y in parts (Peggy and Stan). You didn't love that?!?!??!?!?!! Of course it was fanservice. But, uh... so maybe I like being serviced.
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Post by pairesta on May 18, 2015 8:12:23 GMT -5
But it was too fan-service-y in parts (Peggy and Stan). You didn't love that?!?!??!?!?!! Of course it was fanservice. But, uh... so maybe I like being serviced. I still got goofy over it, even as it seemed like not something the show would do. But I was perfectly happy with our last shot of Peggy potentially being her strutting into McCann with a cigarette and a 200 year old tentacle porn painting.
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Dellarigg
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Post by Dellarigg on May 18, 2015 8:25:54 GMT -5
The ending is perhaps ambiguous enough to act as a rorschach test: are you a cynic or an optimist? Put me down for a cynic. Doubly so, in fact: I wasn't completely convinced about Peggy and Stan. But, a perfectly satisfying way to go out. What a show.
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Post by MrsLangdonAlger on May 18, 2015 10:21:15 GMT -5
But it was too fan-service-y in parts (Peggy and Stan). You didn't love that?!?!??!?!?!! Of course it was fanservice. But, uh... so maybe I like being serviced. Yeah, maybe I'm a bad fan but in most cases I won't complain one bit about being serviced. I actually squealed happily when the Peggy and Stan thing happened. This show doesn't give you a lot of romance, and theirs always felt genuine to me. As far as Don and the ad goes, I'm happy with both interpretations. Even if he made the ad, I don't think that means he would end up going back to his old ways. Hell, he could have made the ad as a last hurrah and then left to do his own thing. I was very satisfied with the episode. I was, however, very sad to delete the show from the app I use to keep track of TV.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 10:24:39 GMT -5
Speaking of fan service (this fan) I laughed so hard at those glamour shots of Pete getting on a private Lear jet with his beautiful wife and daughter. Thank you Mad Men, for real.
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Post by Ron Howard Voice on May 18, 2015 11:55:53 GMT -5
As far as Don and the ad goes, I'm happy with both interpretations. Even if he made the ad, I don't think that means he would end up going back to his old ways. Hell, he could have made the ad as a last hurrah and then left to do his own thing. I was very satisfied with the episode. This is the coolest thing about the finale, for me. The more I think about it, the more I like EVERY possible interpretation of that ending. I'm really just enjoying thinking about them. There's no way to read the final scene that would be false to the show, or that would annoy me, or that would be ridiculous.
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Pear
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Post by Pear on May 18, 2015 13:55:29 GMT -5
Still supporting my original theory (according to some AV Club commenters, I'm "in denial"...c'mon, guys, it's just another interpretation), but I really like the idea that Don making the ad is not necessarily a bad thing. He can both grow and go back to his old patterns.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 14:07:15 GMT -5
Still supporting my original theory (according to some AV Club commenters, I'm "in denial"...c'mon, guys, it's just another interpretation), but I really like the idea that Don making the ad is not necessarily a bad thing. He can both grow and go back to his old patterns. That's exactly where I'm coming from. Don making the ad is a good thing, even if the ad is a cynical cash grab to sell good feelings to the masses. He jettisoned his baggage and is now free to create again.
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Post by pairesta on May 18, 2015 14:08:20 GMT -5
Speaking of fan service (this fan) I laughed so hard at those glamour shots of Pete getting on a private Lear jet with his beautiful wife and daughter. Thank you Mad Men, for real. My wife and I both thought they were gonna crash.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on May 19, 2015 9:09:15 GMT -5
Still supporting my original theory ( according to some AV Club commenters, I'm "in denial"...c'mon, guys, it's just another interpretation), but I really like the idea that Don making the ad is not necessarily a bad thing. He can both grow and go back to his old patterns. Ugh, people are actually saying this? If ever there was a show that allowed for (begged for?) people to make their own interpretations, it was Mad Men.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on May 19, 2015 9:13:10 GMT -5
I wasn't sure at first if I had a problem with the somewhat rom-comy ending for Peggy, but dammit I love the Peggy and Stan pairing, and that whole scene was just perfect Peggy. They weren't going to beat that bad-ass entrance into the McCann offices as a capper to her career arc on the show, I'm glad the show gifted us this happy ending for her personal life as well.
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eldan
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Post by eldan on May 19, 2015 14:23:13 GMT -5
I liked Peggy/Stan even though it was blatant fan service. Peggy's reactions on the phone as well as the fact that she had to reason her way into realizing she loved Stan were very true to the character. Those scenes were jarring, though, I think because there's never been a scene on this show that didn't have some sort of undertone of darkness to it. Normally if a character declared their love for someone, you knew in the back of your mind it was a bad idea or it was doomed, but this scene was completely sincere. I agree with Pear on the ending, I don't personally think it was saying Don goes back and does the Coke ad, but I also think it's very specifically up to interpretation, just like a ton of the biggest moment on the show. It drives me nuts that so many people are saying "My interpretation is the right one obviously, and if you disagree you're wrong!" What kind of a way is that to look at art? I'm speaking on reactions I've seen across the internet, by the way, not about anyone specifically here. Do we have any proof whatsoever that McCann would even have Don back? Peggy tells him they would, but how does she know? Don's clearly been gone at least long enough to find himself a new job and make his way out to the west coast, this isn't like his unannounced weekend trip to California. I also reject the idea that the 'ding' at the end is Don getting the idea, after seven seasons of being the deepest, most maturely symbolic show on television, Matthew Weiner decided to end the entire series with a stage direction directly out of Looney Tunes? But, I do think there's enough there that that ending COULD work as well, which is why I loved this ending, any way you look at it, it fits the show and the characters, and also with either interpretation there are ways to view it as an optimistic or cynical ending as well. I'm really going to miss this show. There's nothing left on TV that comes even close to being as smart or deeply emotional as Mad Men to me.
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Post by Powerthirteen on May 19, 2015 17:38:12 GMT -5
Still supporting my original theory (according to some AV Club commenters, I'm "in denial"...c'mon, guys, it's just another interpretation), but I really like the idea that Don making the ad is not necessarily a bad thing. He can both grow and go back to his old patterns. Accepting that duality as not being a contradiction just seems to me like such a no-shit way to understand the finale (and honestly the whole series) that I'm a little surprised most people feel the need for it to be one thing or the other.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on May 19, 2015 19:45:59 GMT -5
Still supporting my original theory (according to some AV Club commenters, I'm "in denial"...c'mon, guys, it's just another interpretation), but I really like the idea that Don making the ad is not necessarily a bad thing. He can both grow and go back to his old patterns. Accepting that duality as not being a contradiction just seems to me like such a no-shit way to understand the finale (and honestly the whole series) that I'm a little surprised most people feel the need for it to be one thing or the other. People only like saying "It can be two things!", they don't like actually accepting it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 0:05:52 GMT -5
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Post by kitchin on May 20, 2015 17:47:23 GMT -5
Oh, Don makes the coke ad. It's not just the ribbon, it's the outdoor setting.
Weiner dislikes the pretensions of hippies in general, and the coke ad puts a bow on that.
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Post by pairesta on May 21, 2015 9:20:36 GMT -5
Well, this is interesting.Especially after it sounded like he was going to pull a Chase and never discuss it earlier this week. Count me in the "cynical" group then, i think it's a very dark ending. We'd spent the past few seasons watching Don grow apart from advertising, realizing how hollow it was in many ways, and finally, just not being able to be creative anymore. More to the point, we'd seen what a horrible, soul killing place McCann was. That Don went back not just advertising, but there specifically, is what still does not sit well with me about the finale. I wouldn't have even minded if it ended with Don going back into advertising by hanging out his own shingle in California, or getting into some other possibly equally bleak industry, but for some reason (alot of which I outlined previously with it hitting so close to the bone) not McCann. Edit: to say nothing of whether or not McCann even would take him back. They seemed pretty fed up with the lot they were sold. Also it's really weird that Weiner legit loves that commercial and doesn't see the darker side to it.
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Post by Powerthirteen on May 21, 2015 9:55:10 GMT -5
The number one thing I've learned from discussions of the finale at TOS is that people fucking hate Coke and think the Coca-Cola company is evil, which is amusing to me.
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Post by kitchin on May 21, 2015 14:06:47 GMT -5
Now people are saying the AVClub article is wrong and Weiner doesn't outright say it. It's a... Chase...
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on May 21, 2015 17:54:01 GMT -5
So the finale aired here tonight. Coincidentally I was drinking a Coke when the episode ended.
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Post by kitchin on May 22, 2015 6:51:46 GMT -5
It's settling in on me how weak a final episode it was. Just a complete change of tone from the rest of the show. Maudlin fan service farewells. Don's story in the episode, including the "om" and coke ad, was the only line with edge.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 20:33:51 GMT -5
Mad Men Auction! Do you want Stan's maroon button down with love beads?? Yes. Yes, you do
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Post by Powerthirteen on Jul 31, 2015 21:10:49 GMT -5
Mad Men Auction! Do you want Stan's maroon button down with love beads?? Yes. Yes, you do If I were a wealthy man I would aggressively bid on every piece from Stan's wardrobe. Pity his beard isn't up for auction.
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