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Post by Pastafarian on Apr 2, 2020 19:31:41 GMT -5
So I've been chatting with my brothers via face time and mentioned my experiments in baking a while back. My youngest brother, who also happens to have a PhD in neuroscience so I always feel a little inadequate in relation to, decided to try sourdough starter too. His first loaf came out looking like something from a food magazine. Also he's in better shape than I am and more handsome, damn everything.
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Post by songstarliner on Apr 2, 2020 21:15:08 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what specifically happened? After the bulk ferment is was very wet/runny, had no structure to it so no way to form into a ball/loaf. Upon further investigation it sounds like AP flour can have significantly less protein than bread flour which can lead to a lack of structure. Of course there are recipes that use AP flour, but they must compensate in other ways for having less protein. (I assume). The other factor I didn't mention was I attempted to add a small amount of whole wheat flour to the mix so it wasn't all white. This may have exacerbated the problem or maybe not, another lesson I learned was not to change more than one thing at a time. I have found a recipe that calls specifically for AP so gonna see how that goes. I have ... suggestions for improvement, but I don't want to trample your experimentation. I'd be happy to post my ideas here if you like, or you (or anyone else) can PM me. |
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Post by The Stuffingtacular She-Hulk on Apr 3, 2020 9:05:45 GMT -5
Realized I finally have the time and energy to devote to it, so I began a sourdough starter today! It's currently living on top of the fridge, and I await the moment I can post a photo of my first loaf. I do love making bread. I have named my starter "Skinny-boy," because "Seymour" seemed entirely too obvious. Although "Otto" might be a more accurate name going by the hooch-smell... |
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Bread
Apr 3, 2020 9:24:10 GMT -5
Post by Pastafarian on Apr 3, 2020 9:24:10 GMT -5
After the bulk ferment is was very wet/runny, had no structure to it so no way to form into a ball/loaf. Upon further investigation it sounds like AP flour can have significantly less protein than bread flour which can lead to a lack of structure. Of course there are recipes that use AP flour, but they must compensate in other ways for having less protein. (I assume). The other factor I didn't mention was I attempted to add a small amount of whole wheat flour to the mix so it wasn't all white. This may have exacerbated the problem or maybe not, another lesson I learned was not to change more than one thing at a time. I have found a recipe that calls specifically for AP so gonna see how that goes. I have ... suggestions for improvement, but I don't want to trample your experimentation. I'd be happy to post my ideas here if you like, or you (or anyone else) can PM me. Please do share! I'm all ears. |
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Post by songstarliner on Apr 5, 2020 19:10:06 GMT -5
Sorry! I was distracted by the apocalypse.
So, you're right: AP flour has less gluten/protein than bread flour and is better suited to quick breads and cakes and such. You CAN make good bread with AP flour, but I think you'd need a loaf pan to keep the dough from spreading out. And about that whole wheat flour: did you add it to the starter or to the dough? Believe it or not, whole wheat flour is coarse enough on the microscopic level to shred strands of gluten, which is why whole wheat bread tends to be quite dense. The way to get around this is to soak your whole wheat flour in water overnight, either on its own or as part of the starter. I used to do both: for our 100% whole wheat bread we'd have a soaker and a starter. Now, of course this means there will be much less added water in your final dough; if you fine-tune a recipe you can end up with zero added water.
Confused? Don't be. There's a lot of trial and error in bread making, but the worst mistake is to not try.
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Post by Hachiman on Apr 5, 2020 20:01:23 GMT -5
So I made bread and it was a total failure. It was a brick. I baked a brick. I did a food crime!
I think it just didn't proof right and my oven isn't terribly great for baking. Focaccia and pizza are fine but loafs have yet to be successful. Extremely disappointing.
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Crash Test Dumbass
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Post by Crash Test Dumbass on Apr 5, 2020 21:28:47 GMT -5
I made cranberry cinnamon cider bread based on a beer bread recipe from, of all places, The Inventory. I forgot to add salt, and I can definitely taste that I forgot to add salt. This was a totally different experience from baking with sourdough. So much quicker, and a different texture. I might make it again, since it is dead easy, but I only have so much cider.  |
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Post by Pastafarian on Apr 9, 2020 12:50:33 GMT -5
Sorry! I was distracted by the apocalypse. So, you're right: AP flour has less gluten/protein than bread flour and is better suited to quick breads and cakes and such. You CAN make good bread with AP flour, but I think you'd need a loaf pan to keep the dough from spreading out. And about that whole wheat flour: did you add it to the starter or to the dough? Believe it or not, whole wheat flour is coarse enough on the microscopic level to shred strands of gluten, which is why whole wheat bread tends to be quite dense. The way to get around this is to soak your whole wheat flour in water overnight, either on its own or as part of the starter. I used to do both: for our 100% whole wheat bread we'd have a soaker and a starter. Now, of course this means there will be much less added water in your final dough; if you fine-tune a recipe you can end up with zero added water. Confused? Don't be. There's a lot of trial and error in bread making, but the worst mistake is to not try. Thanks for this! First re the spreading tip, good to know, my last loaves did end up more flat and wide than round and tall. I added the WW to both the starter and the dough. Soaking was something I'd not considered or heard about before so you've given me some new experiments to attempt. We're at about 1.25 loaves left (last recipe made two) so I may not get on that right away but will keep you posted. |
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Post by Powerthirteen on Apr 11, 2020 10:03:33 GMT -5
This has been a truly excellent 24 hours for baking. In it I have made 30 scones, 2 loaves of cinnamon bread, 8 loaves of apple twist bread, and 16 dinner rolls, and grossed over $100 by selling them to friends for Easter. Much better than just sitting around twiddling my thumbs all weekend.
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Post by pairesta on Apr 12, 2020 7:11:25 GMT -5
I love that we've all turned into apocalypse bakers and boosted this thread.
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Post by Hachiman on Apr 12, 2020 20:33:29 GMT -5
My bread came out right this time! I wasn't proofing it right. The family loved it, it made great sandwiches, and I will make it again. Next up is baguettes!
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Post by Powerthirteen on Apr 12, 2020 22:34:38 GMT -5
Today I got up at 5:30, baked off 24 scones, and had everything delivered by 7:30. Then I went home and made myself dinner rolls, because why stop when you’re on a roll?
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Post by Powerthirteen on Apr 12, 2020 22:41:07 GMT -5
Also I’ve very rarely bothered using anything but AP flour for bread making and never had a problem. I do usually use bread flour for pizza dough but other than that I’m just a stingy old Mennonite.
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Post by The Stuffingtacular She-Hulk on Apr 20, 2020 9:11:24 GMT -5
I made a test loaf of sourdough bread this weekend.
It was, without exaggeration, the worst fucking loaf of bread I have ever seen in my life. It could have been a murder weapon in Clue, it was so heavy. When I finally finished sawing through the crust and got a peek at what was inside, I started laughing so hard that I cried. I really fucked it up. It didn't rise at all and was gummy. Completely inedible, not even good for bread crumbs. I threw it in the trash, still laughing.
This is the hubris I incur for thinking, "I have a degree in this, how hard could it be?"
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Post by Crash Test Dumbass on Apr 20, 2020 12:23:54 GMT -5
I made another loaf of sourdough (well, two loaves), following a new recipe/technique this time (adapted from this one but only up to step 13, plus my starter didn't float, but whatever). I don't have a Dutch oven, so I plopped the rounds into two stoneware bowls, wrapped them in plastic wrap, and fridged them overnight. The next day I covered two baking sheets with cornmeal, preheated the oven to 500, put a pan full of water on the bottom shelf, and forgot about the whole thing for an hour or so. I added water back to the pan and baked the loaves at 500 for about 30 minutes, 450 for another 15-20 minutes, and then 450 with the oven door ajar for 10 minutes or so, and let them cool for an hour. They came out great (I'm sorry, Shulkie!) with a ridiculously good crust. I also poured some starter onto a sheet of foil to dry out with the intent of storing some at my girlfriend's house and maybe mailing some to other people (the post office is cool with mailing random white powders, right?) so if you want some let me know. |
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Post by Powerthirteen on Apr 21, 2020 12:38:27 GMT -5
The trouble with having made bread the last two days is that I can't reasonably make more today, so I'm bored.
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Post by The Stuffingtacular She-Hulk on Apr 21, 2020 12:40:22 GMT -5
The trouble with having made bread the last two days is that I can't reasonably make more today, so I'm bored. You could make more bread and then stick it in the freezer for when you want bread but don't feel like making bread.
Or, make different bread!
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Post by Powerthirteen on Apr 21, 2020 12:53:33 GMT -5
The trouble with having made bread the last two days is that I can't reasonably make more today, so I'm bored. You could make more bread and then stick it in the freezer for when you want bread but don't feel like making bread.
Or, make different bread!
Guess what my freezer is already stuffed to the gills with lol |
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Post by pairesta on Apr 22, 2020 7:22:49 GMT -5
The trouble with having made bread the last two days is that I can't reasonably make more today, so I'm bored. Muffins? Biscuits? Scones? Rolls? Pizza? |
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Post by Powerthirteen on Apr 22, 2020 10:31:18 GMT -5
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Bread
Apr 22, 2020 11:09:31 GMT -5
Post by Pastafarian on Apr 22, 2020 11:09:31 GMT -5
I made my first rye sourdough loaf yesterday. Recipe called for addition of caraway, anise, and cardamom but I only had the latter so went with that. (I'm not crazy about the flavour of caraway rye anyway if memory serves me correctly.) Turned out really nice. Softer than my previous loaves, the crust was also a lot less...crusty? easier to cut through anyway. Flavour was nutty, with just a hint of sweetness and spice. Went really great with the texas style chili we made yesterday.
In related news my wife complained to me yesterday that her weight is starting to break personal records. So I may be doing a touch less baking and letting my starter rest a bit longer between harvesting.
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Post by Pastafarian on Apr 22, 2020 11:11:24 GMT -5
I made a test loaf of sourdough bread this weekend. It was, without exaggeration, the worst fucking loaf of bread I have ever seen in my life. It could have been a murder weapon in Clue, it was so heavy. When I finally finished sawing through the crust and got a peek at what was inside, I started laughing so hard that I cried. I really fucked it up. It didn't rise at all and was gummy. Completely inedible, not even good for bread crumbs. I threw it in the trash, still laughing. This is the hubris I incur for thinking, "I have a degree in this, how hard could it be?" Not that its going to make you feel better cause I'm a complete dullard when it comes to baking, but my first attempts were kinda just like that :-) |
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Post by The Stuffingtacular She-Hulk on Apr 22, 2020 11:57:45 GMT -5
I made a test loaf of sourdough bread this weekend. It was, without exaggeration, the worst fucking loaf of bread I have ever seen in my life. It could have been a murder weapon in Clue, it was so heavy. When I finally finished sawing through the crust and got a peek at what was inside, I started laughing so hard that I cried. I really fucked it up. It didn't rise at all and was gummy. Completely inedible, not even good for bread crumbs. I threw it in the trash, still laughing. This is the hubris I incur for thinking, "I have a degree in this, how hard could it be?" Not that its going to make you feel better cause I'm a complete dullard when it comes to baking, but my first attempts were kinda just like that :-) I told some friends about it last night during a Zoom trial (we're doing a virtual happy hour on Friday evening), in almost these exact words, and one of them laughed until I thought he was going to fall off his chair. I was glad they found it as funny as I did.
I did find a good website that talks about troubleshooting starter. Mine has been bubbling and smells/tastes the way it ought to, but it hasn't risen at all. I'll transfer it to a new jar and see if feeding it twice a day helps.
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Post by Crash Test Dumbass on Apr 22, 2020 20:05:42 GMT -5
I made some more sourdough but I wasn't paying attention when adding the water and I'm not sure if I remembered to tare the scale and I certainly didn't fold it enough. The bread didn't want to hold its shape, and despite covering most of the cooking sheets with cornmeal, the bread still blooped everywhere and was impossible to get off the sheets without destroying the bottom crust.
It tasted really good, tho, and the top crust was good. The "pan full of water in the oven, 20 minutes at 500, 20 at 450, and 15 at 450 with the door ajar" is working really well for me.
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Post by sarapen on Apr 24, 2020 6:53:22 GMT -5
Going to try that no knead bread recipe again over the weekend. Is there any reason it needs to be baked on something flat it can spread out on versus a bread pan? Although I suppose for the amount of dough it might need two bread pans. Anyway, I wouldn't mind having a loaf that's easier to make sandwiches with.
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Post by Pastafarian on Apr 24, 2020 9:26:19 GMT -5
Realized I finally have the time and energy to devote to it, so I began a sourdough starter today! It's currently living on top of the fridge, and I await the moment I can post a photo of my first loaf. I do love making bread. I have named my starter "Skinny-boy," because "Seymour" seemed entirely too obvious. Although "Otto" might be a more accurate name going by the hooch-smell... I decided on Bread Pitt. |
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Post by Powerthirteen on Apr 24, 2020 14:04:45 GMT -5
My sourdough starter is three days old, foamy and beautiful, and smells like fresh-cut corn.
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Post by The Stuffingtacular She-Hulk on Apr 27, 2020 9:28:10 GMT -5
I am pleased to report that following The Clever Carrot's suggestions has worked! I haven't seen it double yet, but four days after transferring Skinny-boy to a new Ball jar and feeding it twice a day, it's visibly rising and foamy. It also smells bready. I'm so excited. She also has a recipe specifically for AP flour sourdough, which is great because I can't find bread flour for love or money, unless I want to pay for 50 pounds of it, at which point I think my parents would actually murder me and be totally justified.
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Post by Pastafarian on Apr 27, 2020 11:47:16 GMT -5
My sourdough starter is three days old, foamy and beautiful, and smells like fresh-cut corn. How often do you feed it? |
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Post by Powerthirteen on Apr 27, 2020 11:52:56 GMT -5
My sourdough starter is three days old, foamy and beautiful, and smells like fresh-cut corn. How often do you feed it? 10 AM and 10 PM. |
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