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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jul 9, 2015 16:53:21 GMT -5
In spite of this being one of my favourite shows that doesn't get that much AV attention, never really had a thread here.
So here we go. I'm on episode three of season three so thus behind most folks, but this is a hell of a season so far, ain't it?
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Jul 10, 2015 8:32:05 GMT -5
In spite of this being one of my favourite shows that doesn't get that much AV attention, never really had a thread here. So here we go. I'm on episode three of season three so thus behind most folks, but this is a hell of a season so far, ain't it? I'm so happy to have a decent sci-fi show in the "forehead prosthetics" vein airing into its 3rd season. I really started to love the show with the much stronger Season 2 (compared to 1), but I've only watched the first episode of Season 3 so far. Or I guess the first two episodes? The two-hour block that screened as one episode is what I've seen. It was so dark, and the total situation so awful and dire, that I keep hesitating when the cursor hovers over the next episode on my DVR. I think, "I've only got time for one show tonight. Do I really want to go back to that place right now?" I am liking the Omecs, even if Rowan was dead on in his review that they are really over-the-top D&D characters. What's the spoiler policy here? Anyway...
I was actually disappointed that they killed Christie, even more so than Rafe. Rafe was a badass, but his story had come to a meaningful end. Christie, on the other hand, while clunkily written, was only getting more interesting with time. The cosplay parlor and the "white face," the way she manipulated Alek by using Casti tradition ... it was getting somewhere. Of course, once baby arrived, "complaining mom worried about baby" was not going to be an interesting road for that character, so maybe it's for the best. It certainly was dramatic and made for an unanticipated moment.
I want something good for Alek. I want him to come out of this experience strong and to actually manage to kick some ass.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jul 10, 2015 9:15:21 GMT -5
In spite of this being one of my favourite shows that doesn't get that much AV attention, never really had a thread here. So here we go. I'm on episode three of season three so thus behind most folks, but this is a hell of a season so far, ain't it? I'm so happy to have a decent sci-fi show in the "forehead prosthetics" vein airing into its 3rd season. This really in a nutshell is Defiance's appeal. Even with the new spate of shows Syfy is developing, Defiance remains the only show of its kind: Falling Skies has opted for full body costumes (featuring among others Doug Jones, whose entire career is this work) and CGI creatures; resulting in a show that barely gives personhood to its aliens even when they are allies (far from the least of its concerns.) CW's sole foray into alien Sci-fi was Star-crossed, which was pretty much a teen soap take on Defiance but consequently the aliens were all just hunks with weird tattoos. You want a show where half the cast represent a variety of aliens, like the Deep Space Nines, Farscapes and Babylon 5s of old, Defiance is really the only game in town. And that it's actually managed to stumble both into a third season and being pretty good doesn't hurt either. As for spoilers guess we can just mark them as such. So, season three, same two episodes: What no spilt tears for Quinn?
Ah of course I'm kidding. The show's willingness to abruptly write Quinn off the show in season one was one of the moments it became clear the series was willing to quickly jettison anything that wasn't working: I was surprised the show even remembered him in season two, and there they wisely did it to bring Linda Hamilton onboard. While I agree with you about Christie, more broadly the brutal death of the McCawleys made sense to me because the show has evolved quite a bit beyond the Tarr/McCawley family rivalry, a kind of Wild West Hatfields and McCoys imbroglio, from being an animating part of the series - hell, at this point, the McCawleys are family.
Also the show promoted Berlin to regular and has kept around Doc Yewll, who was one of the show's best characters right from the pilot, so they seem to get which characters are really jelling.
Agreed entirely about the Omec, although they were kind of an inevitable complication - you have a series with a limited number of aliens the temptation to introduce a new race is irrestible - especially when more than a few Votans have never actually worked that well onscreen (pretty much just the three major ones.) But we also have that psychotic new Votan General, and the Tarrs have been reliably excellent - put Stahma Tarr in a room with anyone and you'll get that character at their best (which is also true for a certain new arrival.)
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Jul 10, 2015 16:13:49 GMT -5
Can we have a moment for Stahma's lingerie?
I'm especially enjoying the darker feel this season: always felt the show's basic premise needed to be much nastier than it was actually shown to be.
As I'm up to date with US airings, I'll say no more for now.
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Post by Hachiman on Jul 11, 2015 22:36:25 GMT -5
I just want to chime in that I am really enjoying Defiance. For me it strikes the right balance between being engaging but also not taking itself too seriously. It's just great popcorn-tv (Is that a thing? It needs to be a category of its own.).
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jul 12, 2015 8:06:18 GMT -5
Hachiman I believe Defiance would fit comfortably into the type of TV that the AV Club defined as ' mid-reputable,' and popcorn TV is definitely also a fair term.
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Post by Hachiman on Jul 14, 2015 8:08:44 GMT -5
Yeah. I got what they were saying about mid-reputable, but I felt like there really needs to be more of a defense for entertainment that isn't a slog to get through.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Aug 9, 2015 5:51:51 GMT -5
Let's bring this back, guys... So; that's Nolan so far off the deep end he's taking advice from his younger Butcher self, the actual Voltanis Collective pissed at the town while the shields are disabled, the Tarrs giving no fucks and Kenzie free to roam with the Doc as her Alfred. And we're just half way into the season...
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Aug 12, 2015 9:12:12 GMT -5
I'm far behind but back for now. Watched episodes 3 and 4 the last two nights. I will not be using spoiler tags, but I will be dropping some spoilers, because I figure I'm in last place anyway, and a whole thread in spoiler tags just seems kinda silly. Here's some random thoughts. I'm loving the hell out of this season so far. Very dark, very high stakes. Episode 3.3, "Broken Bough"
Lots of good Tarr in this episode, from Datak's usual master-of-the-universe tough guy spiel once he returns home, to Stahma's relentless, well, defiance. Not to mention that on-a-dime change in demeanor they both share in the clinic after everyone steps out. Perfect. Stahma's chemistry with T'evgin is red hot (see next episode) and seriously how good is Conrad Coates in this role?! I love how quickly both Nolan and Pilar deduce the other's inevitable treachery, with Nolan lucky to be one step ahead. Meanwhile, Irissa's crisis of conscience feels earned but frustrating. You had him. You fucking had him! I hope this is going somewhere, is all, and that they're not sidelining one of the more interesting characters with a one-note role. The outro, set to a somber version of Hendrix' "Hey Joe," was one of the better ones. I realize I'm a bitch about these kinds of things now as a parent, but the look on Stahma's and especially Datak's face as they see their grandchild for the first time got to me. Sorry, but Pilar spouting that Terminator line was lame. Great idea, the right actor, but it didn't land. Episode 3.4, "Dead Air"
A weaker episode with a lot to like still. I love that they didn't make the execution of the terrorist act the plot. It just happened, and now we deal with literal and figurative fall out. And I love how despite obvious cultural differences and an atypical home even within Casti society, Datak is still such a dude. Stahma: "Fine, I'll just kill him while we fuck." Datak: "Uh ... I know I was just all, we have to do this right now, but we can probably, you know, take it slow and find another way..." Did anyone else think that the seduction and especially the lovemaking scene had an odd Christmas theme to it? Some combination of the soft lighting, that tree with the ornament-like fruit and maybe Stahma's white skin mimicking snow? The Nolan/Amanda/Pottinger plot was more disappointing. Too dependent on the narrative needs of a serialized TV show. As soon as you see it, Pottinger or no, you think, "Well, this is going to be destroyed before the episode is over." And then the vet/doctor waits all of 10 seconds after Nolan wakes to explain the entire situation of how he got there as well as go into great detail about Pottinger's death throw and the singularity bomb, a conveniently complete way to rid the plot of Arrowhead forever. Clunky. (Though, the way Nolan immediately starts breaking out. No chit chat. No despair. Just, what can I use to pick this lock? That was nice.) Misgivings aside, this show is seriously so good this season so far.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Aug 13, 2015 6:41:24 GMT -5
LazBro I feel like they had to give Pilar a Terminator line for Hamilton's last (for now, anyway?) episode. And yeah, I figured out halfway through the Pottinger episode that if anything was sticking around, it'd be the vet (the show has an odd tendency to just glom onto characters - the best choice there remains Berlin, who I'm really happy to see promoted to regular this season.)
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Aug 13, 2015 16:46:05 GMT -5
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Aug 13, 2015 16:46:05 GMT -5
Episode Eight: Oh, Datak Tarr. He's surprisingly disarming.
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Aug 13, 2015 17:22:22 GMT -5
Episode Eight: Oh, Datak Tarr. He's surprisingly disarming. Even though I'm not that far in, I can't help but open and read spoiler tags. I can think of 3-4 interpretations of you comment, and they're all wonderful.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Aug 14, 2015 10:41:06 GMT -5
Episode Eight: Oh, Datak Tarr. He's surprisingly disarming. Even though I'm not that far in, I can't help but open and read spoiler tags. I can think of 3-4 interpretations of you comment, and they're all wonderful. Get back to us when you've caught up - I'll bet cashy money none of your interpretations are accurate to the season's development.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Aug 30, 2015 6:13:12 GMT -5
The Defiance finale was excellent, I thought. For one thing, it finally did what they've been slowly doing for a couple of seasons now: made Joshua Nolan both interesting and someone worth caring about.
I was iffy about Nolan in S1: just saw the Han Solo rip-off, and I wasn't convinced by Grant Bowler's performance. But both he and the writers have grown into the character, especially his devotion as a father in balance with his brutal military past. Have to say, his ending had me way more emotional than any part of the Hannibal finale.
The show could end here and that would work... but even without Nolan (or the Doc), there's plenty of room for more. The Tarr's are back in play big time, for one thing! Big world (even without the game parts) and I could stand to see more of it.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Aug 30, 2015 11:23:42 GMT -5
The Defiance finale was excellent, I thought. For one thing, it finally did what they've been slowly doing for a couple of seasons now: made Joshua Nolan both interesting and someone worth caring about. Nearing the end of the season too, and I feel like this is the year they've really got the Nolan/Irisa stuff to work, because, now that we've got some distance between us and Irisa's shady past (and Chosen One destiny whatevermajigs) they can just focus on the dysfunctional relationship of a grizzled war veteran with a few chips on his shoulders about the alien invasion that transformed his world and the knife-happy kid he took under his wing as he meandered around being a Mad Max for a TV budget. They've both got a lot of emotional wounds and their relationship hasn't always been that healthy but it's the only one they've got and they bloody cling to that with everything they have. And this may be the season with the best handle on its ensemble in general. It introduced some new characters, gave us a lot of Doc Yewll (always a good thing, Doc Yewll) and everything from Rahm Tak's big band genocide team to the Omec's sepulchral antiquity kept stuff moving nicely.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Aug 30, 2015 12:35:54 GMT -5
The Defiance finale was excellent, I thought. For one thing, it finally did what they've been slowly doing for a couple of seasons now: made Joshua Nolan both interesting and someone worth caring about. Nearing the end of the season too, and I feel like this is the year they've really got the Nolan/Irisa stuff to work, because, now that we've got some distance between us and Irisa's shady past (and Chosen One destiny whatevermajigs) they can just focus on the dysfunctional relationship of a grizzled war veteran with a few chips on his shoulders about the alien invasion that transformed his world and the knife-happy kid he took under his wing as he meandered around being a Mad Max for a TV budget. They've both got a lot of emotional wounds and their relationship hasn't always been that healthy but it's the only one they've got and they bloody cling to that with everything they have. And this may be the season with the best handle on its ensemble in general. It introduced some new characters, gave us a lot of Doc Yewll (always a good thing, Doc Yewll) and everything from Rahm Tak's big band genocide team to the Omec's sepulchral antiquity kept stuff moving nicely. I do worry about a no-Doc Season 4...
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Aug 31, 2015 8:42:36 GMT -5
I didn't read y'alls comments too closely. Mrs. Snape and I are committed to finishing this before we head off to galavant around Europe for a couple weeks. We're through episode 9 or 10. I think 9. Nolan just killed the ambassador and is being sent to Brazil (yeah right). Again, random quick thoughts:
- The best season of the show by a Votan mile.
- "My Name is Datak Tarr and I have Come To Kill You" is one of the great episodes of TV this year. And one of the greatest TV episode titles of all time.
- I really did not see that meaning of "disarming" coming. Like, I thought he might cut off an arm, maybe even his own, but the extra points earned for why make it a whole different thing. The moment I realized what was going to happened I shot upright and all but yelled at Mrs. Snape: "He's gonna cut off his arm and fucking bolt." Also, how amazing is the image of Datak Tarr running away from the Votan camp with an arm missing. Like it was so silly as to be funny, but also completely great.
- There were a couple weak music cues in the two episodes that followed. Nolan's falling apart arc, while good in concept, led to some pretty cheesy sequences. Misfires in a show that is typically spot on with that kind of thing.
- Nothing new, but the Tarr's new house girl is just adorable.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Aug 31, 2015 8:56:22 GMT -5
LazBro Re: your last point. I could swear Adina's been around since at least season two. And yes, she is. I loved that whole Datak Tarr arc in general; the flashbacks to him and his father (with Tony Curran as his father) were just cool flavour.
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Aug 31, 2015 9:02:49 GMT -5
LazBro Re: your last point. I could swear Adina's been around since at least season two. And yes, she is. I loved that whole Datak Tarr arc in general; the flashbacks to him and his father (with Tony Curran as his father) were just cool flavour. Yeah, I recognize Adina from Season 2. Wasn't her becoming the house girl a C or D plot for a couple episodes? She became their house girl so Stahma would help her father or something. Or maybe the dynamic was more: her becoming the house girl was the favor. Yes, those couple scenes on Casti were nice. I'd love to see more of that in the future, not just Casti, but just more about the original Votan worlds. At dinner last night, Mrs. Snape and I were talking about how one thing the show is missing is a deeper look into the Votan races. We've boned up a little on Castithans, Irathients and Indogenes, and maybe a little on Omec now, but what's with the bird creatures or the gorilla dudes, and on and on. We want to know more.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Aug 31, 2015 9:15:21 GMT -5
LazBro The problem is clearly that Defiance was designed as a universe both for videogames and a TV series, and there's stuff that works well in TV that doesn't in games and vice versa. The Sensoths when they have appeared on the show have been not particularly convincing gorilla suits. The Volge and Gulanee are essentially CGI effects, the former in particular - essentially large killer robot suits - felt primed for a videogame setting. Which basically leaves the Liberata, whose prosthetics have worked fine and yet who haven't been anything more than a couple of supporting characters on the show. I definitely think the show could do more with them. And perhaps more concrete details on the lore - looking at the Wikipedia revealed to me that the Volge actually conquered the Omec's home world, which has never come up yet in this Omec heavy season (part of the show generally seeming to ignore that the Volge were ever a thing.)
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Sept 4, 2015 8:38:39 GMT -5
It is finished, and it was pretty great. Again with the thought array:
- For sheer impact, I thought S2's finale was a little stronger. While Omecs have been humping around all season, I never felt the threat of Kindzi and her invasion like I did the threat of Rahm Takk's genocidal assault. I was not unlike Amanda in the clinic, so beaten down by yet another potential apocalypse that I almost couldn't commit to it. I guess what I am saying is, while the average quality was remarkably high across the season, the front arc bested the back one.
- For one thing, the Omec felt weak and even a bit hapless. This can be explained by their years of dormancy and need to strengthen by feeding, but this is also a race that has been trumped up as an all-powerful, predatory master race, and they kind of went out like bitches.
- Kindzi was an effective villain, but the final battle was kind of blah, all the way through to its terrible CGI conclusion. Sorry but Firefly did it better.
- That said, I loved the ending. Yewell's sacrifice, Nolan's trick, interstellar travel! I'm agreed with Lupin that if it has to end here, it has ended strong and completely.
- I can't believe Pilar never came back at any point. I didn't expect her to be instrumental in the finale, but if you don't show the death, dammit that person ain't dead!
- Fingers crossed for Season 4. I have no idea if they could keep Nolan and Yewell in the show - and unless they bring them back to Defiance some how, it'd be lame splitting the show between two locations - but here we have an opportunity to dig deeper into the show's world-building with the lead human out of the way.
- Re: Andina - FUCK!
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Post by LazBro on Oct 17, 2015 0:23:26 GMT -5
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Oct 17, 2015 4:49:52 GMT -5
Godspeed you, you mad wee show.
Gonna miss the Tarrs, no lie - but at least it had a proper ending (and honestly, one which I can't see a great way to progress from anyway without writing out Nolan & Doc or just cross-cutting to their Space Pirate Adventures).
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 17, 2015 6:24:07 GMT -5
Godspeed you, you mad wee show. Gonna miss the Tarrs, no lie - but at least it had a proper ending (and honestly, one which I can't see a great way to progress from anyway without writing out Nolan & Doc or just cross-cutting to their Space Pirate Adventures). I'd assume some Space Whatziz would somehow bring them back, maybe one that's also tied to whatever season four's about. But Nolan gone, Irisa taking over as Lawkeeper... it was just a damn good ending. But it's a shame that the first and best of Syfy's new wave of, well, sci-fi shows, has to hang up its cap now.
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