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Post by Prole Hole on Aug 30, 2016 23:46:56 GMT -5
Roy Batty's Pet Dove Well maybe the 23,136 century would be OK... But actually I'd be fine with a show set in a period after Voyager yea. We get to keep the rich tapestry of races, cultures, societies and geospacio-politics built up over TNG, DS9 and Voyager, and you could still easily have your show be about exploration. If you feel this galaxy's been exhausted, well you could always make your show about the first Federation ship to explore Andromeda - maybe, say, the first trans-galactic drive developed from technology derived form the quantum slipstream drive Voyager brought back? Or something retro-engineerd from the Borg/Species 8472/whateves yo. The bafflegab for it isn't important, but there's still plenty of stories to tell moving forward, rather than prequel-ing.
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Aug 31, 2016 2:58:25 GMT -5
Post-Lupin Baron von Costume I wonder if this show will actually be captain-less (until the possible end-of-season promotion)—didn’t the early casting sheets indicate an admiral? I can imagine the first officer being the focus because she’s the one who has to put the admiral’s broad directives into actual action on the ship, the liaison between authority and the people who actually make the mission work. That’s a dramatic role, and one different from the focus on command we usually got (though there was a hint of that with Riker). Prole Hole I think the prequel setting serves a couple o functions—for one thing it’s our reintroduction to the classic Trek universe (and, CBS hopes, a lot of people’s introduction to the franchise as a hole), so it makes sense to start with something foundational. I also think, from a creative standpoint, the post-DS9/VOY momentum’s been lost and picking it up again would be a challenge. Given Meyer’s involvement I think the limitations of the twenty-third century are part of the appeal. “Technology unleashed” is also not easy to do, and while I’d love to see someone try to give another try at doing the first season of TNG (when the Enterprise was this super-power city ship—it never stopped being one but it was de-emphasized later on) well there’s something to the limited, more hands-on tech of the TOS/movie era. It’s that tall ships feeling, where there’s adventure and dealing with your limitations is part of that.
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Post by Prole Hole on Aug 31, 2016 4:06:11 GMT -5
Jean-Luc Lemur - I guess since alt-TOS/Abramsverse is an ongoing concern at the moment I can see the logic of trying to produce something which is chronologically close to that - and it's definitely important Star Trek is made for the general public, not just hardcore fans - but given that Enterprise is the only post-TOS series to get cancelled I'd find it hard to claim there was a lot of (at least televisual) momentum behind a prequel-era as well.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Aug 31, 2016 6:45:38 GMT -5
Jean-Luc Lemur According to the Hollywood Reporter there are two Admirals, one male and female, in the show's main cast (and a Klingon captain), so prossibly. Jean-Luc Lemur - I guess since alt-TOS/Abramsverse is an ongoing concern at the moment I can see the logic of trying to produce something which is chronologically close to that - and it's definitely important Star Trek is made for the general public, not just hardcore fans - but given that Enterprise is the only post-TOS series to get cancelled I'd find it hard to claim there was a lot of (at least televisual) momentum behind a prequel-era as well. I really think the comparison is the Abrams films, not television, which has frankly no momentum at all. Fuller has talked in the past of doing a TV show actually in continuity with those films, and according to his interview the main reason they ruled out Kelvin is that they don't have to coordinate with those films - a chance to do their own spin on the original show, essentially. Star Trek hasn't been on TV so long a lot of Discovery's possible audience may have not been alive when Enterprise went off the air (twelve year olds and younger, which is around the age I got into Star Trek.) That audience's chief exposure or introduction to Star Trek is most likely the Kelvin films. Anyway here's a nice infographic of all the information already released.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Aug 31, 2016 18:36:48 GMT -5
Jean-Luc Lemur According to the Hollywood Reporter there are two Admirals, one male and female, in the show's main cast ( and a Klingon captain), so prossibly. So that basically means the show will almost certainly be about Starfleet vs. Klingons to a large extent, right? Prole Hole OK, so what about this? What about a series set in the 25th Century, where the Borg have taken over and assimilated the entire Federation, and the show is about them flying around in their Borg cube exploring for new civilizations to assimilate, and they can call it Star Trek: Borg Cube, or something? Is that a worse idea than a Star Trek set in the 23,137th Century? But in all seriousness, even as someone who doesn't really know shit about Star Trek beyond TOS and how bad the first season of TNG is, I find the idea of making the main character of Discovery an already established minor character from TOS unappealing, especially the theory where the new lead Number One is revealed to be Majel Barrett's Number One from "The Cage" in the season finale, because if that happens, it'll probs be played off as a big twist but everyone who actually gives a shit will see it coming from a mile away. Also, given that presumably Fuller isn't going to be super sexist a la Gene Roddenberry, if he decides to approach the sexism of mid-23rd Century Starfleet in the show through showing how icky and sexist it is, maybe it'd be best not to have a lead whose only prior appearance as a character was in a two-part episode wherein her main contribution to the plot is to be creepily offered to the captain as part of a choice between an intelligent woman and a young, pretty one (which is made even more sexist given that Barrett was hardly old at the time, nor conventionally unattractive, but whatever). Or maybe it would be entirely un-Star-Trek-like to explore sexism like this at all and Fuller will just retcon TOS-era sexism entirely, I dunno, I probably shouldn't even be commenting on this thread at all, not having seen DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, or 90% of TNG, but then I wouldn't have a platform to float the worst premises for hypothetical new Star Trek series that I can think of, so yeah, sorry to make this comment at all. |
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Aug 31, 2016 18:47:37 GMT -5
FWIW I think twenty-third century sexism has basically been retconned in everyone’s minds as just an artifact of the 1960s production and not an actual aspect of the twenty-third century.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Aug 31, 2016 19:14:15 GMT -5
FWIW I think twenty-third century sexism has basically been retconned in everyone’s minds as just an artifact of the 1960s production and not an actual aspect of the twenty-third century. Oh, OK. It's pretty tough to believe that society would be that goddamned sexist in 250-300 years when less than 50 years later in the real world such sexism already seemed outrageously gratuitous, so the tacit retconning of 23rd Century sexism makes a lot of sense. |
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Post by sarapen on Aug 31, 2016 19:53:58 GMT -5
Jean-Luc Lemur Yeah, when the DS9 cast time-travelled back to the Tribbles episode the miniskirts of the female officers were treated as just an amusing difference in fashion instead of as a symptom of institutionalized female sexualization. Roy Batty's Pet Dove Well, World War 3 happened between now and the Enterprise era so who knows whether gender was radically realigned in the apocalyptic aftermath. It's not as if the arrow of history always moves toward greater personal freedoms - remember how 4-letter words used to be okay in family-friendly movies?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 0:39:46 GMT -5
The prequel setting honestly doesn't bother me. In a way, I get a bit tired of the jumps forward in time in the franchise - after a while, it just starts getting closer and closer to magic, i.e. Clarke's sufficiently advanced technology. The usual fan idea of "make the new show 100 years after the last one!" that I see in comment threads holds zero appeal for me at the moment.
I don't see any reason why Fuller can't pull off good stories in the 23rd century, and plus, being set around TOS means, hopefully, some of that TOS design style will be all over things, and I'm 110% on board for an updated take on that (as opposed to the Kelvin Timeline films, which basically threw 95% of the TOS look & feel in the trash in favor of swoopy white & blue bulbous things).
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Post by Desert Dweller on Sept 5, 2016 1:40:44 GMT -5
Well, the uniform design Fuller tweeted out is very "The Cage". Very TOS-era colors. Simple turtleneck uniforms. So, no real visual interest there. For me, at least. (Maybe the aliens will have some cool costumes?)
Yeah, I'm a little disappointed in the decision to make the show a prequel. I was hoping for something set post-DS9/VOY that would deal with the changing galactic politics of that era.
I suppose if they want a show about a starship exploring the galaxy, the prequel timeline is a better choice. It would be interesting to see how restricted the information about the galaxy is. How much do they know about the major alien species we meet in later iterations?
I don't mind getting a show set with major Klingon characters. I think the Klingons were pretty well developed in the tv series, especially by TNG/DS9. Seeing this era of Klingons might be interesting.
So far, I'm still pretty excited. Very interested to see the casting information.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Sept 5, 2016 7:14:04 GMT -5
Well, the uniform design Fuller tweeted out is very "The Cage". Very TOS-era colors. Simple turtleneck uniforms. So, no real visual interest there. For me, at least. It seems he was just referencing a Gucci thing, to whit: We didn't get a lot of information at the Star Trek New York convention - the biggest news was that there'd be novels and comics tying in to the new show (as has happened for all the other Star Trek series, including the animated one) with the only real surprise that one of the writers - Kirsten Beyer - would be coordinating efforts between the series and these new works, though of course Orci and Kurtzmann dabbled in Trek comics to promote their films and earlier than that Jeri Taylor penned a few novelisations and books, her Voyager ones sometimes having been considered 'canon,' but we're not getting into that right now. The only news about the show was vague - apparently, implacable demigods are involved somehow (which if so, is the kind of thing that mattered a great deal for the first three Star Treks, from Q and the Prophets to the menagerie of would-be gods on the original show) and that we're getting a Muslim?  The Muslim reveal was accidental, but unsurprising. |
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Sept 5, 2016 7:44:21 GMT -5
The Muslim reveal was accidental, but unsurprising. Could we also get a Mongol? Kubla (•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)  |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Sept 5, 2016 11:02:01 GMT -5
Ah! Glad to hear that isn't the real uniform look. Thanks!
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Post by Baron von Costume on Sept 6, 2016 9:44:19 GMT -5
The prequel setting honestly doesn't bother me. In a way, I get a bit tired of the jumps forward in time in the franchise - after a while, it just starts getting closer and closer to magic, i.e. Clarke's sufficiently advanced technology. The usual fan idea of "make the new show 100 years after the last one!" that I see in comment threads holds zero appeal for me at the moment. I don't see any reason why Fuller can't pull off good stories in the 23rd century, and plus, being set around TOS means, hopefully, some of that TOS design style will be all over things, and I'm 110% on board for an updated take on that (as opposed to the Kelvin Timeline films, which basically threw 95% of the TOS look & feel in the trash in favor of swoopy white & blue bulbous things). Well it's not like there have been many jumps forward in time in the franchise, TNG->Voy->TNG movies is a continuous time period after all. That said (as I think I've mentioned before) I really wish they'd set this show between TOS and TNG, heck it could even be concurrent with the TOS film era if need be. My ideal new trek show (ideally made around when Enterprise was on the air) was always Captain Sulu winding down a long career on the Excelsior and retiring/passing it on to a new Captain/Crew. So set in that era in an older second tier ship (we could see some other ships that show the transition between the Excelsior and Ambassador type classes.) Admittedly at least part of that is my love of that model from a ship nerd perspective though even though it's not the most fav-favourite. |
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Post by Post-Lupin on Sept 14, 2016 17:03:20 GMT -5
Guess we've got a few more months to argue about this...
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Post by Ben Grimm on Sept 14, 2016 18:50:32 GMT -5
Guess we've got a few more months to argue about this... Are you implying that we're going to argue less once it's actually out? |
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Post by Post-Lupin on Sept 15, 2016 14:59:00 GMT -5
Guess we've got a few more months to argue about this... Are you implying that we're going to argue less once it's actually out? Fair point, well made. |
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Post by Ben Grimm on Oct 26, 2016 18:29:47 GMT -5
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 26, 2016 20:22:32 GMT -5
It's not good news, no.  This said, the new showrunners are Aaron Harberts and Gretchen J. Berg, writing partners who together are primarily notable as people who have worked for Bryan Fuller - they were writers on both Wonderfalls and Pushing Daises, among various other non-Fuller shows (like Roswell, Reign, Revenge, and shows which don't begin with a R.) Roswell also had Ronald D. Moore, for what that is worth.This, more than the general assurances Fuller will still check in, suggests some faith in the vision Fuller had for the series, but I guess we shall see, and the first test should be revealed fairly soon: Who they cast for the series lead. Fuller implied, if not outright promised, that his young woman Lieutenant Commander would be, as they say, a Person of Colour; he almost cast someone but it fell through for whatever reason, earlier this month. Well, if it goes to a white woman, that'll be something a little different, obviously. Anyway. We'll see.  |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Oct 26, 2016 22:38:17 GMT -5
I'm pretty concerned. I'm thinking odds are now about 60-40 whether this show will ever air. Bryan Fuller was the main reason I was excited about it. Now considerably less excited. |
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Post by Baron von Costume on Oct 27, 2016 10:33:42 GMT -5
It's not good news, no. This said, the new showrunners are Aaron Harberts and Gretchen J. Berg, writing partners who together are primarily notable as people who have worked for Bryan Fuller - they were writers on both Wonderfalls and Pushing Daises, among various other non-Fuller shows (like Roswell, Reign, Revenge, and shows which don't begin with a R.) Roswell also had Ronald D. Moore, for what that is worth.This, more than the general assurances Fuller will still check in, suggests some faith in the vision Fuller had for the series, but I guess we shall see, and the first test should be revealed fairly soon: Who they cast for the series lead. Fuller implied, if not outright promised, that his young woman Lieutenant Commander would be, as they say, a Person of Colour; he almost cast someone but it fell through for whatever reason, earlier this month. Well, if it goes to a white woman, that'll be something a little different, obviously. Anyway. We'll see. Counterpoint: Akiva Goldsman is now involved. Dammit |
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Post by Ben Grimm on Oct 27, 2016 15:50:13 GMT -5
Some info on the characters from io9."Sources tell THR that the rest of the cast also will feature an openly gay actor as one of the male leads (which Fuller confirmed), a female admiral, a male Klingon captain, a male admiral, a male adviser and a British male doctor." The "openly gay actor" thing is a bit odd; any cast sufficiently large is liable to have an openly gay actor nowadays (and there have been a few in past series), and it's not clear if we're getting an openly gay character, which I think most of us are more interested in seeing. That said, it sounds like at least a few of the parts have been cast already.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2016 20:11:20 GMT -5
I'm fine with fuller leaving. I know he worked on star trek before(more voyager than anything else though). Fuller is great but I don't think him as a show runner would gel with trek as much as others think it would. He has since become a very unique TV creative, and trek has a very distinct DNA, even in it's best and most "different" series, DS9, it was still Star Trek all the same. Fuller isn't one to be confined to a box(at least now, anyway). I don't think his departure is going to hurt as much as others do. Really, his involvement was the only thing keeping me at arms length about discovery.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Nov 18, 2016 11:02:28 GMT -5
Since I noticed that my next post was going to be my 1701st post, I figured it needed to be on a Star Trek thread.
Is anyone else seriously beginning to question whether this series is ever going to come out at all at this point?
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Nov 22, 2016 21:51:26 GMT -5
Michelle Yeoh has joined the cast. It's worth noting that her role hasn't been confirmed (Trekcore is so suspicious of the story they refuse to consider it even as a rumour, which is bizarre given the source is Nick Meyer himself.) Many speculate obviously that she is the lead, and as we've discussed she fits the female and POC assumptions of that character - though not the youth, as Fuller had planned a young Lieutenant Commander. This character may have been aged up in Fuller's absence, or Yeoh may be playing a secondary character like the rumoured 'female admiral.' We shall see. |
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Post by Ben Grimm on Nov 23, 2016 7:55:35 GMT -5
Michelle Yeoh has joined the cast. It's worth noting that her role hasn't been confirmed (Trekcore is so suspicious of the story they refuse to consider it even as a rumour, which is bizarre given the source is Nick Meyer himself.) Many speculate obviously that she is the lead, and as we've discussed she fits the female and POC assumptions of that character - though not the youth, as Fuller had planned a young Lieutenant Commander. This character may have been aged up in Fuller's absence, or Yeoh may be playing a secondary character like the rumoured 'female admiral.' We shall see. My wild, baseless speculation, is that she's the Captain who will die, resulting in the lead getting promoted to Captain. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Nov 25, 2016 22:55:36 GMT -5
Since I noticed that my next post was going to be my 1701st post, I figured it needed to be on a Star Trek thread. Is anyone else seriously beginning to question whether this series is ever going to come out at all at this point? Yes. I have feared this ever since Fuller left. I consider the odds to be about 50/50 as to whether it ever airs. |
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Nov 26, 2016 10:17:52 GMT -5
My wild, baseless speculation, is that she's the Captain who will die, resulting in the lead getting promoted to Captain. Well, you're part of the way there: She's not the lead, and she is a Captain, but she's not the Captain of the Discovery - she is apparently Han Bo, the Captain of a different starship called the Shenzhou (the name of an actual Chinese spacecraft.) Since the first teaser, the show has floated the idea of 'crews', plural, so this isn't inherently a surprise, but it is interesting - her role may still be equivalent to whatever the 'female Admiral' was. And for the nerdy record, Shenzhou is not the first canonical Federation starship to have a Chinese name - there was also the USS Tian An Men, a Miranda class involved in the blockade during the Klingon Civil War and a number of engagements during the Dominion War. Not to mention the Yangtzee Kiang, the first runabout Deep Space Nine ever lost. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2016 16:07:36 GMT -5
Hey, the DS9 episode with Mike! It was very average.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Nov 29, 2016 13:59:54 GMT -5
So, Doug Jones has been added to the Star Trek: Discovery cast. He is playing Saru, an alien from a species new to the series (already having been hinted at by Fuller some time ago, Saru was the first character whose name was confirmed) and the Discovery's Science Officer. Doug Jones is most famous for his many roles under heavy prosthetics - he played both the Faun and the Pale Man in Pan's Labyrinth, and Abe Sapien in both of the Hellboy movies, but one of his TV roles - the alien Cochise on Falling Skies - may give us the closest idea of what Saru may be like, in terms of what is achievable on a TV budget, especially as Fuller had said they were considering CGI enhancements. They have also cast Anthony Rapp, a veteran of stage and screen, apparently more known for his theatrical credits (he was in the original cast of Rent) than television or film (which includes, for example, a fairly minor role on the Knick.) Rapp is playing Lt. Stamets, an astromycologist onboard the Discovery. |
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