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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Jun 1, 2016 0:00:07 GMT -5
The TI Book Club selection this time around is We Have Always Lived In the Castle, Shirley Jackson's final novel, published in 1962. I'm hoping to pick up a copy at some point in the next couple of days, and hopefully post my thoughts in the next couple of weeks. I haven't read anything of Jackson's before, but given the high praise I've seen of her work both here and elsewhere, I'm excited to read this.
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Ice Cream Planet
AV Clubber
I get glimpses of the horror of normalcy.
Posts: 3,833
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Post by Ice Cream Planet on Jun 1, 2016 1:31:17 GMT -5
YES!
The Haunting of Hill House and Hangsaman were two of the best books I read (Shirley Jackson ranks as one of the best novelists of the 20th century for me), and I've been meaning to read We Have Always Lived in the Castle for ages. I hope to get to it within a couple weeks' time.
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Post by MrsLangdonAlger on Jun 1, 2016 20:12:27 GMT -5
This makes me so happy. I could practically talk about it fluently without re-reading it, but of course re-reading it again would be a treat. I'll get my copy back from Iffy this weekend!
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clytie
TI Forumite
Posts: 1,071
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Post by clytie on Jun 10, 2016 9:33:20 GMT -5
I've always meant to read this, but never have. Now I will!
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jun 11, 2016 19:49:44 GMT -5
I just got the book today. Hoping to post some thoughts here by end of next week.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jun 26, 2016 18:19:25 GMT -5
I finished this book last night. I knew nothing about this before I started it.
Wow! It is GREAT! Very unsettling, disturbing, claustrophobic....Beautifully written. A+ use of first person narrator.
Hey, I hated Jane Eyre. I don't hate Gothic. Just that book. This piece of Gothic fiction? It is brilliant.
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Post by MrsLangdonAlger on Jun 26, 2016 20:33:20 GMT -5
I finished it the other day and am gonna write about it more later in the week, but some of my thoughts. This is my fifth re-read of it!
* Love Jackson's use of repetition yet again in this book, which is done so effectively in her other novels as well. For example, how many times was Merricat "chilled"?
* Another theme you find in many Jackson novels is that of rituals, either internal or external, as a way to protect oneself. Merricat sets her rituals of language to protect herself, and also does external things like nailing protective items to trees, all in the hopes of protecting what's left of her little family and their way of life.
* On top of keeping their way of life, what she really wants to keep is their ROUTINE. Anything that upsets that routine is a threat.
* To that end, Merricat becomes an unreliable narrator. Is Charles really a threat? Does he really say the things he says to Merricat that are clearly threatening? Or is it just that any interruption in her way of life will be seen as a force of evil?
* Speaking of evil, this reminded me of The Lottery in that it highlights the reflexive, bored cruelty of groups of people. The people in town are so needlessly cruel, starting from their bullying as Merricat visits town and of course culminating in their attack on the house.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jun 27, 2016 1:45:24 GMT -5
I finished it the other day and am gonna write about it more later in the week, but some of my thoughts. This is my fifth re-read of it! * On top of keeping their way of life, what she really wants to keep is their ROUTINE. Anything that upsets that routine is a threat. * To that end, Merricat becomes an unreliable narrator. Is Charles really a threat? Does he really say the things he says to Merricat that are clearly threatening? Or is it just that any interruption in her way of life will be seen as a force of evil? Oh yes! Jackson does an intense examination of the power of stasis, here. Merricat is aiming for complete control of her routine, the environment, everything. She needs everything to stay exactly the same. Even when things spin out of her control and are decidedly NOT the same, she still exerts her will to MAKE everything the same, damn it! I find the ending to be incredibly disturbing, as it seems like Constance has just been completely subsumed by Merricat's will for stasis. And yes, Merricat is a World Class unreliable narrator. After finishing the book, I am still revisiting events and relationships, trying to figure out if what was presented by Merricat is even true. In addition to what you point out relating to Charles, I also wonder how agoraphobic Constance really was. Was she really that scared to go outside, or was she actually scared of trying to leave Merricat? The scenes she has with Charles indicate she is someone who at least partly does want to get out of the miserable life she is in. Also, it is great to realize way near the end of the book that Uncle Julian actually believes Merricat is dead. I mean, at least sometimes? It forced me to revisit earlier scenes and realize that he only ever talks to Constance. What is really going on there? Does Julian know what really happened? Does he even realize he's living with the murderer? I have no idea. What is also interesting is the way the offerings from the townspeople at the end also functioned as some sort of ritual. Merricat indicates they are doing it out of penitence, but the book makes it seem like the townspeople are also doing this as some form of protection, considering their continued treatment of the house and the girls.
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Post by MrsLangdonAlger on Jun 27, 2016 18:47:19 GMT -5
Your mention of how disturbing the end is makes me think of what makes me most uncomfortable about this book, actually, and also about The Haunting of Hill House: I really understand, sympathize, and empathize with the characters, despite how objectively crazy they are. Merricat's need for stasis (well said, by the way!) is damaging and unhealthy, but I totally understand it and find myself rooting for her.
Good point about the offerings of the townspeople, and I had the same thought. I had to wonder if their offerings of food would just continue forever. In the same way that Merricat witnesses adults training their kids to tease her family, maybe now those children will also be trained to add respect and offerings to their fear of the Blackwood house.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Jul 29, 2016 16:42:39 GMT -5
I really loved this book. I hadn't read any of Shirley Jackson's writing before, and I was struck by what an excellent writer she is, and how effortless and unpretentious her prose is. She is an absurdly underrated author. Like MrsLangdonAlger, I was also deeply disturbed by how sympathetic a character Merricat is and how easy it is to root for her, despite the fact that she's a murderer, and an extremely selfish person who unhealthily shuts herself off from the real world. Jackson does a masterful job of presenting an extremely unhealthy lifestyle and deplorable worldview from the perspective of one who has grown so accustomed to these things that they seem wholly natural to the reader. Like Desert Dweller said, Merricat wishes to keep everything in stasis, to a stifling, creepy degree, and yet, as much as I can see that this is not a healthy way to deal with life, Jackson has created such an effectively-written character in Merricat that it's very easy to empathize with the comfort that her routines and rituals being her and the threat that anything which disturbs these routines and rituals represents. And I think it's that balance between the compassion with which Jackson writes these characters, and the sharply observed critiques of their many flaws which makes the book so great. I, too, enjoyed the ambiguity that Merricat's narration brings to the novel. For example, is Charles really a greedy interloper who only wants the family's money, or is he genuinely interested in establishing a connection with his cousins and appalled at the constraining isolation in which they are living? When he says to Jonas that Merricat hates him, is he, as Merricat believes, trying to steal away her cat's loyalty to her, or is he trying to win Merricat over by playfully asking Jonas how to get his cousin to like him. When Charles confronts Constance over Merricat burying money and contends that Constance does not seem to understand how money works, is he being condescending and talking down to an grown woman in her late 20s, or is he sincerely trying to help a family member who legitimately does not understand even the most basic principles of personal finance (regardless, Charles came across as being pretty sexist to me in this incident). As for the townspeople, certainly they are prone to cruel gossip and name-calling, but are they really so horrible as Merricat says they are, or is their cruelty largely an unduly caustic way of expressing resentment at a miserly family of classist snobs? I have one last observation, regarding stasis, and the townspeople at the end of the novel. As has already been remarked in this thread, the leaving of food at the gutted wreckage of the house becomes a sort of ritual on the part of the townspeople. This tradition resembles to me a relapse into a feudal past, and a social system of peasants paying homage to their supposed betters. And yet there is no reason to maintain this classist social hierarchy, and the archaic preservation of this odious social construct is symbolized by the once grand home of Merricat and Constance as it falls into a state of greater and greater decrepitude and disrepair. It reminds me of "The Lottery" (which I read after finishing this book), wherein another odious tradition is needlessly maintained through an aversion to change and a idealized view of said tradition's long history. It also reminds me of Faulkner's "A Rose for Emily", another story about the citizens of a town's long history of undue deference to a thoroughly unpleasant person ( who, like Merricat, is a murderer ), in this case because she is the daughter of a Confederate general, representing to them a lost cause which in reality is at least as odious in nature as the social constructs which Jackson presents in We Have Always Lived In the Castle and "The Lottery". Anyway, this was really fantastic, and probably the best book I've read so far this year.
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Post by MrsLangdonAlger on Jul 29, 2016 22:30:19 GMT -5
Fantastic post! That first paragraph in particular is really insightful, and your thoughts about class as it relates to the novel really made me think. It's not even something that had occurred to me, but I can see it.
Your observation on stasis makes me think you might also really enjoy Jackson's more underappreciated book The Bird's Nest. It took has a narrator you find yourself sympathizing with despite knowing that what she is doing to herself and to others is harmful. Jackson in general is wonderful and if you liked The Lottery, The Daemon Lover is another great, eerie short story.
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