Ice Cream Planet
AV Clubber 
I get glimpses of the horror of normalcy.
Posts: 3,833 
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Post by Ice Cream Planet on Mar 16, 2014 11:29:41 GMT -5
Still reading The Somnambulist by Jonathan Barnes and The Crimson Petal and The White by Michel Faber. Both are insanely good, and are contributing to my growing obsession with Victorian-set literature. The Somnambulist in particular is an excellent contemporary penny dreadful.
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Post-Lupin
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Immanentizing the Eschaton
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Post by Post-Lupin on Mar 16, 2014 12:09:56 GMT -5
Decided I needed some fun leisure reading that's completely off-topic for work (so, no fantasy or paranormal SF and nothing that's too heavy on religion as a focus). Am therefore chewing my way through David Weber's Honor Harrington series of military space operas.
First couple of books had a touch of the Mary Sue - Honor is an immensely talented space navy commander, a total babe who doesn't know it, had a super-cool pet and only has a couple of (adorable) flaws - and they're heavy on exposition to set up the physics of the (tremendously gripping) space battle scenes; but the slow-but effective world-building, political complexity and clear Horatio Hornblower love overcome these flaws. About to start the 4th book of the series, leaving 10 or so to go!
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Post by sarapen on Mar 16, 2014 12:38:38 GMT -5
Decided I needed some fun leisure reading that's completely off-topic for work (so, no fantasy or paranormal SF and nothing that's too heavy on religion as a focus). Am therefore chewing my way through David Weber's Honor Harrington series of military space operas. First couple of books had a touch of the Mary Sue - Honor is an immensely talented space navy commander, a total babe who doesn't know it, had a super-cool pet and only has a couple of (adorable) flaws - and they're heavy on exposition to set up the physics of the (tremendously gripping) space battle scenes; but the slow-but effective world-building, political complexity and clear Horatio Hornblower love overcome these flaws. About to start the 4th book of the series, leaving 10 or so to go! I've heard the series described as being about ship-to-ship missiles but somehow it keeps shoehorning in stuff about human beings. How fair of an assessment would you say this is? And how right wing does its military porn get? I have this weird fascination with military fiction despite having opposite feelings toward real life militaries so if it gets too heavy-handed I'll probably check out eventually like with John Ringo's books. |
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Post by Mrs David Tennant on Mar 16, 2014 13:05:31 GMT -5
Decided I needed some fun leisure reading that's completely off-topic for work (so, no fantasy or paranormal SF and nothing that's too heavy on religion as a focus). Am therefore chewing my way through David Weber's Honor Harrington series of military space operas. First couple of books had a touch of the Mary Sue - Honor is an immensely talented space navy commander, a total babe who doesn't know it, had a super-cool pet and only has a couple of (adorable) flaws - and they're heavy on exposition to set up the physics of the (tremendously gripping) space battle scenes; but the slow-but effective world-building, political complexity and clear Horatio Hornblower love overcome these flaws. About to start the 4th book of the series, leaving 10 or so to go! Do not try to read them all in a row! You will become increasingly disenchanted. Weber's info dumps become more and more annoying. I gave up reading them around the 8th or 9th book. |
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Post by Mrs David Tennant on Mar 16, 2014 13:07:36 GMT -5
Decided I needed some fun leisure reading that's completely off-topic for work (so, no fantasy or paranormal SF and nothing that's too heavy on religion as a focus). Am therefore chewing my way through David Weber's Honor Harrington series of military space operas. First couple of books had a touch of the Mary Sue - Honor is an immensely talented space navy commander, a total babe who doesn't know it, had a super-cool pet and only has a couple of (adorable) flaws - and they're heavy on exposition to set up the physics of the (tremendously gripping) space battle scenes; but the slow-but effective world-building, political complexity and clear Horatio Hornblower love overcome these flaws. About to start the 4th book of the series, leaving 10 or so to go! I've heard the series described as being about ship-to-ship missiles but somehow it keeps shoehorning in stuff about human beings. How fair of an assessment would you say this is? And how right wing does its military porn get? I have this weird fascination with military fiction despite having opposite feelings toward real life militaries so if it gets too heavy-handed I'll probably check out eventually like with John Ringo's books. I've never heard that description before but it seems pretty accurate! And Weber is nowhere the right-wing writer that Ringo is. The first 7 or 8 Honor Harrington books are excellent - I just lost interest when they got to be so long and nothing ever seemed to happen. |
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Post-Lupin
Prolific Poster
Immanentizing the Eschaton
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Post by Post-Lupin on Mar 16, 2014 15:13:51 GMT -5
I've heard the series described as being about ship-to-ship missiles but somehow it keeps shoehorning in stuff about human beings. How fair of an assessment would you say this is? And how right wing does its military porn get? I have this weird fascination with military fiction despite having opposite feelings toward real life militaries so if it gets too heavy-handed I'll probably check out eventually like with John Ringo's books. I've never heard that description before but it seems pretty accurate! And Weber is nowhere the right-wing writer that Ringo is. The first 7 or 8 Honor Harrington books are excellent - I just lost interest when they got to be so long and nothing ever seemed to happen. I have a high tolerance for infodumps if the other stuff works - and I'm finding the actual military stuff quite compelling. (I'm a sucker for tales of honour and duty, especially when in conflict with supposed authority - one of the reasons I go back to Babylon 5 again and again.) I may well take a break after a couple more though - but 3&4 blend into each other nicely & I plain want to see what happens! He does like his missiles, though. The world set-up is not as severely right-wing as I expected (not read Ringo, but noted to avoid!) - actually, I'm finding the Anglophilia aspects of the set-up almost adorable. It's done in a way only a worshipful American would look at the peerage and monarchy, if that makes sense. |
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Post by Mrs David Tennant on Mar 16, 2014 19:26:35 GMT -5
I've never heard that description before but it seems pretty accurate! And Weber is nowhere the right-wing writer that Ringo is. The first 7 or 8 Honor Harrington books are excellent - I just lost interest when they got to be so long and nothing ever seemed to happen. I have a high tolerance for infodumps if the other stuff works - and I'm finding the actual military stuff quite compelling. (I'm a sucker for tales of honour and duty, especially when in conflict with supposed authority - one of the reasons I go back to Babylon 5 again and again.) I may well take a break after a couple more though - but 3&4 blend into each other nicely & I plain want to see what happens! He does like his missiles, though. The world set-up is not as severely right-wing as I expected (not read Ringo, but noted to avoid!) - actually, I'm finding the Anglophilia aspects of the set-up almost adorable. It's done in a way only a worshipful American would look at the peerage and monarchy, if that makes sense. In Enemy Hands and Echoes of Honor are really fantastic - I've read them a few times. In fact, I still really like the series up until War of Honor, and will probably reread the whole thing again at some point. I do skim over the infodumps because I can't visualize from descriptions and so a lot of his description goes right over my head. |
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Post by Albert Fish Taco on Mar 17, 2014 8:12:52 GMT -5
I've been reading Horatio Alger. Remember that dude? Hung out with teenaged orphan bootblacks in NYC and wrote their stories as rags-to-riches tales, became symbolic of the whole American up-by-the-bootstraps ethos? Turns out that the reason his star has faded a bit, aside from the fact that his books are absolute shit, the other reason is that he was fucking a few of those teenaged orphans. Whoops! Anyway, Ragged Dick is pretty bad and a little gay but it takes place in the same time and place as Scorcese's Gangs of NY (Five Points, 1860s), so I might rewatch that. Might read the book Gangs of New York, while I'm at it - that would be cool. What's this you say? A man that hangs out with orphan boys and titled a novel Ragged Dick was a pederast? *monacle drops* |
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Post by nottheradio on Mar 17, 2014 18:01:49 GMT -5
I'm reading The New Apocrypha, by John Sladek, which was published in 1973 and is about fringe theories/beliefs (e.g. UFOs, Hollow Earth Theory, phrenology, etc.). Sladek is more than willing to show his anti-nutcase-with-spurious-proof bias, even letting loose with an exasperated, chapter-ending sigh of "Jesus Christ." Much of the covered material is badly making me want to re-read Against the Day.
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Post-Lupin
Prolific Poster
Immanentizing the Eschaton
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Post by Post-Lupin on Mar 17, 2014 19:22:58 GMT -5
I have a high tolerance for infodumps if the other stuff works - and I'm finding the actual military stuff quite compelling. (I'm a sucker for tales of honour and duty, especially when in conflict with supposed authority - one of the reasons I go back to Babylon 5 again and again.) I may well take a break after a couple more though - but 3&4 blend into each other nicely & I plain want to see what happens! He does like his missiles, though. The world set-up is not as severely right-wing as I expected (not read Ringo, but noted to avoid!) - actually, I'm finding the Anglophilia aspects of the set-up almost adorable. It's done in a way only a worshipful American would look at the peerage and monarchy, if that makes sense. In Enemy Hands and Echoes of Honor are really fantastic - I've read them a few times. In fact, I still really like the series up until War of Honor, and will probably reread the whole thing again at some point. I do skim over the infodumps because I can't visualize from descriptions and so a lot of his description goes right over my head. I just hit the Dole Scum infodump in Flag In Exile and, while I'm assuming it's told as POV for Pierre, it does have that right-wing 'dole inevitably leads to wasted lives' bollocks which is such a trait of right-wing types. (Yes, I have extensive experience of the opposite being true in many cases.) I do however think his touch re. religion is fairly light (turns out he's a Methodist lay preacher, which as Xtian flavours go could be far worse). |
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Post by usernametoolong on Mar 18, 2014 7:59:33 GMT -5
Read the first part of Broch's The Sleepwalkers which was surprisingly engrossing, we'll see where this is going, but it seems his m.o. will be to actually tell a story (or stories) expecting the reader to get the larger points rather than having lots of speechifying and exposition. I probably should wait until I finish it before I try to interpret it, but I'm very pleased so far.
Took a break between parts 1 and 2 with Peter Handke's The Hour of True Sensation, it's my first by him and was a bit disappointing. It's not badly written, but nowhere near as good as what his reputation had me expecting (poetic and avant-garde), and is the rather unoriginal tale of a thirty-something losing it, but not too much. It wasn't bad (and it was mercifully short), but it's hardly encouraging me to read more, bit of a shame as I was hoping he'd be an author I could delve into.
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repulsionist
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actively disinterested
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Post by repulsionist on Mar 18, 2014 10:52:32 GMT -5
Finished Philip H. Faber's Brain Magick last week. It's a really nice secular/agnostic/scientific elucidation of ritual with examples of how to do each described. I didn't make the time to complete the cycle of ever more involving rituals. If you're into meditation/prayer and have an open mind as to what may instantiate beyond conscious human ken, this book engagingly offers many vehicles to ride in. I found many of the descriptions of results, which the author suggests to record for one's self literally so a history of changing perceptions may be noted, aligning with my own mystical schizotypy. So that was interesting.
Last week I distractedly listened to Victor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning. *JOKE* It's a powerful book on human spirituality provided indirectly by the Holocaust.*END JOKE* Frankl's gently incisive and distinct views which he synthesized as the practice of logotherapy are intellectually engaging and reflect upon the deeper aspects of how it is possible to evolve/change our sense of humanity. Other audiobooks from the past few weeks included Aristotle in 90 Minutes and Kierkegaard in 90 Minutes. Really enjoyed the Aristotle one. The Kierkegaard one just made his human history sound like an upper-class pain in the ass (i.e. sober, rigid youth; having to meet father's arcane requirements; a general stifling of intention that manifest in provocative behavior; usw.). |
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Post by MrsLangdonAlger on Mar 18, 2014 11:27:41 GMT -5
This is embarrassing, but my plan for my next read is to re-read my digital copy of Perks of Being a Wallflower.
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repulsionist
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actively disinterested
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Post by repulsionist on Mar 19, 2014 10:24:56 GMT -5
I'm reading The New Apocrypha, by John Sladek, which was published in 1973 and is about fringe theories/beliefs (e.g. UFOs, Hollow Earth Theory, phrenology, etc.). Sladek is more than willing to show his anti-nutcase-with-spurious-proof bias, even letting loose with an exasperated, chapter-ending sigh of "Jesus Christ." Much of the covered material is badly making me want to re-read Against the Day. Nutcase counterpoint:
Sladek is someone I'd label as a fundamental materialist. He's certainly incisive and his arguments cutting, but in the example of organic versus conventional foods essay he's positing that there's no difference solely based on nutritional value. He follows that with a chastisement of those who would prefer organic as lumpen hippie space-cases, because he's proved that since there's no difference (nutritionally) it's ridiculous to have a preference/prejudice. I guess he might have a latent sentiment that seeks to upend the sense of prejudice by those preferring organic in this particular essay, but the sway of his argument appears prejudiced by his narrow criterion.
If you dig Sladek, I also endorse the works of Martin Gardner.
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Post by Ron Howard Voice on Mar 19, 2014 15:32:07 GMT -5
Currently reading three books on urban planning, for some reason. "City Rules" is an academic text (200 pgs) I got from my library, all about examples of how ordinances and urban planning rules fundamentally screwed up American cities. An example: socialists in the 1920s thought that poor people all deserved sunlight and yards too, which is why so many cities restricted or prevented construction of apartment complexes in places where there really should be apartments instead of crappy single-family shacks. Another example: there are suburbs in Arizona whose planners thought that, because street corners are places for the community to gather and mingle, they should ban buildings on corners.
"The End of the Suburbs" is a breezy-looking book that introduces New Urbanism to people who don't know anything about it. Or so I would assume; I haven't started it yet. It's 200 pages and the type is big.
"Walkable City" by Jeff Speck is a manifesto for the benefits of the title, and how to create design reforms to make American cities more hospitable to people who use their feet.
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Post by Dr. Dastardly on Mar 20, 2014 8:48:28 GMT -5
Hey yo, Ron Howard's Voice, you're back! Hope you're telling all about your trip on the Travel thread or something, I'll go check. I'm a third of the way into David Copperfield right now! Told you I'd join you eventually.
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repulsionist
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Post by repulsionist on Mar 20, 2014 10:25:43 GMT -5
Man, Buzz, I just looked that up and saw it described as "a 20th century Middlemarch," which if that's not fucking a book by high expectations I don't know what is. I need to get to Yiddish Policeman's Union. I've been reading Horatio Alger. Remember that dude? Hung out with teenaged orphan bootblacks in NYC and wrote their stories as rags-to-riches tales, became symbolic of the whole American up-by-the-bootstraps ethos? Turns out that the reason his star has faded a bit, aside from the fact that his books are absolute shit, the other reason is that he was fucking a few of those teenaged orphans. Whoops! Anyway, Ragged Dick is pretty bad and a little gay but it takes place in the same time and place as Scorcese's Gangs of NY (Five Points, 1860s), so I might rewatch that. Might read the book Gangs of New York, while I'm at it - that would be cool. You CANNOT go wrong reading Herbert Asbury. Surrounding the build-up to the Scorsese film the publisher Basic Books revived his stuff in print. Luckily, remainders occurred and appeared at a great number of Half Price Books across the U.S. Suffice it to say I gorged myself on Asbury. I read Barbary Coast, The Gangs of New York, A Sucker's Progress and All Around the Town. None of these were clunkers, but Asbury's writing does wear thin if a reader piles it on like I chose to do. |
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clytie
TI Forumite
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Post by clytie on Mar 20, 2014 11:13:10 GMT -5
The Wings of the Dove by Henry James
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Post by MyNameIsNoneOfYourGoddamnBusin on Mar 20, 2014 20:08:36 GMT -5
Have you started American Autopsy yet? I was thinking of doing that next too (or fairly soon to next). I've now started it and it's more about LeDuff's relationship with Detroit after he returned. The best chapter in the book so far is when he embeds himself with a ladder in the Detroit Fire Department after Kwame Kilpatrick dissed the fire department. I'm overall enjoying it because even though he shows all of Detroit's flaws, you get this strong sense that he really loves Detroit. I also want to contrast and compare it with "You Were Never In Chicago" by Neil Steinberg as they're both books that are largely reporters writing about the cities they call home. I just read American Autopsy and I enjoyed very much, especially the personal life aspects that managed to bleed into his work and make him feel like he had a purpose even if he wasn't always fulfilling it. I always liked LeDuff's pieces for local news and the anger and frustration always came out even in his most satirical pieces (he also gives really good radio interviews). As someone who lives here, the long sections re-capping events here became a little tedious, but seemed like good summaries for those who wouldn't have been following local Detroit news in the years covered. I have to take issue with a few points where what he was saying was questionable (for example, his claim that the Detroit News was no longer putting out a Sunday edition by 2008 is at best a half-truth) and some other claims about the city are out of date even though the book is only a year old (for example, there are now at least two chain grocery stores in the city and the election of a white mayor should contradict at least some of the negative things he says about racism in the city). It's also a little disappointing to have read about his reasons for returning to Detroit now that I know he's taken another national journeyman assignment for various FOX affiliates, and his anger at those who manage to get away with lawbreaking doesn't quite jibe with this week's news that he's likely to get off completely free for committing a drunken assault last year. Still, I think it's a very good primer for our-of-towners looking to learn something about the city, even if it's largely going to confirm the worst of what they've already heard. |
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Post by Nudeviking on Mar 20, 2014 21:06:08 GMT -5
I finished reading "The King in Yellow," and started reading "Kwaidan," because I really don't want to read the Bronte sisters...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2014 22:46:10 GMT -5
I've now started it and it's more about LeDuff's relationship with Detroit after he returned. The best chapter in the book so far is when he embeds himself with a ladder in the Detroit Fire Department after Kwame Kilpatrick dissed the fire department. I'm overall enjoying it because even though he shows all of Detroit's flaws, you get this strong sense that he really loves Detroit. I also want to contrast and compare it with "You Were Never In Chicago" by Neil Steinberg as they're both books that are largely reporters writing about the cities they call home. I just read American Autopsy and I enjoyed very much, especially the personal life aspects that managed to bleed into his work and make him feel like he had a purpose even if he wasn't always fulfilling it. I always liked LeDuff's pieces for local news and the anger and frustration always came out even in his most satirical pieces (he also gives really good radio interviews). As someone who lives here, the long sections re-capping events here became a little tedious, but seemed like good summaries for those who wouldn't have been following local Detroit news in the years covered. I have to take issue with a few points where what he was saying was questionable (for example, his claim that the Detroit News was no longer putting out a Sunday edition by 2008 is at best a half-truth) and some other claims about the city are out of date even though the book is only a year old (for example, there are now at least two chain grocery stores in the city and the election of a white mayor should contradict at least some of the negative things he says about racism in the city). It's also a little disappointing to have read about his reasons for returning to Detroit now that I know he's taken another national journeyman assignment for various FOX affiliates, and his anger at those who manage to get away with lawbreaking doesn't quite jibe with this week's news that he's likely to get off completely free for committing a drunken assault last year. Still, I think it's a very good primer for our-of-towners looking to learn something about the city, even if it's largely going to confirm the worst of what they've already heard. Ah! I haven't read the Free Press and the Detroit News regularly this week so I missed the news about him not being charged with assault at that St. Patrick's Day Parade. |
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Post by Ron Howard Voice on Mar 25, 2014 10:24:30 GMT -5
Hey yo, Ron Howard's Voice, you're back! Hope you're telling all about your trip on the Travel thread or something, I'll go check. I'm a third of the way into David Copperfield right now! Told you I'd join you eventually. I'm also reading a Dickens novel: The Goldfinch, by Donna Tartt. About 300 pages into the 770-page span, and so far it's stupendous. In addition to the suspense of the story itself, there's the suspense of, is this going to be a classic? |
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Post by Dr. Dastardly on Mar 25, 2014 11:21:32 GMT -5
Man, do people like the Goldfinch. I've been avoiding it because I just read Tartt's Secret History last year and wasn't really crazy about it, but if everyone keeps raving about this shit I'm gonna have to give in eventually.
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Post by Ron Howard Voice on Mar 25, 2014 11:53:42 GMT -5
To be impartial, the top Amazon reviews are surprisingly negative - I usually never see 2-star reviews on the first page.
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Post by Dr. Dastardly on Mar 25, 2014 14:39:57 GMT -5
Did you finish David Copperfield? What do you think is up with Mr. Dick? I've been trying to figure it out. He's often described as "childish", "simple", and "natural", all words used to describe mentally disabled people - but he doesn't really behave like that very often. His thing about working King Charles I into everything he writes is more in line with schizophrenia. Frankly, I think Dickens just sortof fucked this up, creating a bastard amalgam of both of them.
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Post by Ron Howard Voice on Mar 25, 2014 15:23:09 GMT -5
Did you finish David Copperfield? What do you think is up with Mr. Dick? I've been trying to figure it out. He's often described as "childish", "simple", and "natural", all words used to describe mentally disabled people - but he doesn't really behave like that very often. His thing about working King Charles I into everything he writes is more in line with schizophrenia. Frankly, I think Dickens just sortof fucked this up, creating a bastard amalgam of both of them. Yeah, of course in that time without a true science of psychology, all an author had to go on was his own power of observation. Mr. Dick seems to be an amiable fool, like a fellow whose mental development left him frozen at age 12. (There's another character like this in Elizabeth Spencer's The Light at the Piazza, though she's still in her twenties.) Dickens doesn't give him any speech impediments or other obvious physical impairments, so the King Charles thing might just be meant as a funny quirk? Maybe you'd be persuaded by the theory that Mr. Dick is autistic? I'm not sure myself but I'll quote the summary: "A diagnosis of autism challenges some earlier scholars who have argued that Mr. Dick suffers from one form or another of schizophrenia. The shortcomings of a diagnosis of schizophrenia in his case are discussed. The portrayal of Mr. Dick's behaviours, the progression of his condition over time, and his responsiveness to certain programs of care all point to autism as the most credible diagnosis of Mr. Dick's disability." The argument proper begins on page 12 of the PDF (page 3 of the paper). |
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Post by Dr. Dastardly on Mar 25, 2014 15:27:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I saw that autism piece. I found it bizarre - like, perversely wrong-headed. Mr. Dick does absolutely nothing in line with a diagnosis of autism as far as I noticed. If I was on the board for that dissertation I would have flunked the lady.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2014 17:44:42 GMT -5
I'm now reading "Fairyland: A Memoir of My Father." I'm really glad I read "The Rosie Project" between this and "Detroit: An American Autopsy" because otherwise I would have read two depressing books in a row.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2014 7:50:13 GMT -5
I'm currently reading The Tribe of Tiger, by Elizabeth Marshall Thomas. It's a nonfiction book, all about cat intelligent design evolution and behavior. I read the first 40? pages last night; so far, so good. There's a decent, brief review of the book here: www.thumper.net/tlkmag/archive/mm/ttot.htm |
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Post by nottheradio on Mar 26, 2014 17:49:09 GMT -5
I'm reading The New Apocrypha, by John Sladek, which was published in 1973 and is about fringe theories/beliefs (e.g. UFOs, Hollow Earth Theory, phrenology, etc.). Sladek is more than willing to show his anti-nutcase-with-spurious-proof bias, even letting loose with an exasperated, chapter-ending sigh of "Jesus Christ." Much of the covered material is badly making me want to re-read Against the Day. Nutcase counterpoint:
Sladek is someone I'd label as a fundamental materialist. He's certainly incisive and his arguments cutting, but in the example of organic versus conventional foods essay he's positing that there's no difference solely based on nutritional value. He follows that with a chastisement of those who would prefer organic as lumpen hippie space-cases, because he's proved that since there's no difference (nutritionally) it's ridiculous to have a preference/prejudice. I guess he might have a latent sentiment that seeks to upend the sense of prejudice by those preferring organic in this particular essay, but the sway of his argument appears prejudiced by his narrow criterion.
If you dig Sladek, I also endorse the works of Martin Gardner.
The section about eating organically definitely came across as the most dated, and I assumed the majority of his antipathy toward the natural movement was fueled by personal dislike of the type of person who would have espoused it in the late '60s and early '70s (an antipathy I would have shared had I been around, in all honesty), but that doesn't excuse his dismissal of it as a valid lifestyle, you are correct. It seemed an exception to the rule, however, in that the rest of the targets he chose seemed to fully deserve his derision, prejudiced as it may have been. Overall I very much enjoyed it, and will look into Gardner, as well as more Sladek, soon. If Sladek was able to write non-fiction with that much personality and humor, I'm sure I'll love his sci-fi. I am due to finish The Fellowship of the Ring tonight. I have never read Lord of the Rings, though I did read most of The Hobbit when I was a kid and it soured me on Tolkien for a long time, clearly. I've seen all of the movies multiple times and liked them well enough, but not enough to make me want to invest in the series. It was suggested to me because I was going through ASoIaF withdrawals, and it's exactly what was needed to bridge the gap before I can go back to reading genres I'm more used to. I do think fantasy has me in it's scaly claws, though, so I'm going to be browsing more of that some time in the near future once I'm done with LotR, and will gladly accept any and all suggestions (wink wink). |
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