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Post by MarkInTexas on Jan 5, 2018 1:55:08 GMT -5
The Good Place is back! Yay!
While I figured that Michael hadn't gone back to the dark side, I did enjoy how he was able to frame Vickie while sending the subtle clues to the foursome to trust him. "Something something Vickie something something" was definitely a highlight.
This episode does sort of blow up the theory that this is actually Michael's Bad Place, though.
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Jan 7, 2018 10:25:51 GMT -5
Ted Dansen's shift at the end was wonderful. That performance was every bit as good as the season one reveal.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Jan 7, 2018 16:59:46 GMT -5
Congrats on the Jaguars, Jason.
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Post by MarkInTexas on Jan 8, 2018 23:33:02 GMT -5
Congrats on the Jaguars, Jason. Yeah, all those Jaguars jokes kind of fall flat this year. Maybe Jason should have been from Cleveland.
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Jan 15, 2018 13:47:07 GMT -5
Iβd like to thank @wearytraveler for introducing me to this wonderful show and now that Iβve caught up I canβt stop watching videos on youtube of William Jackson Harper getting peeved at English spelling rules.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 15:11:04 GMT -5
Congrats on the Jaguars, Jason. Yeah, all those Jaguars jokes kind of fall flat this year. Maybe Jason should have been from Cleveland. Consider this: they've been in the Good Place for presumably hundreds of years and Jason missed his opportunity to witness the Jaguars finally be dominant in the league. A tragedy, if you will.
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Rainbow Rosa
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not gay, just colorful
Posts: 3,604
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Jan 15, 2018 15:18:33 GMT -5
Yeah, all those Jaguars jokes kind of fall flat this year. Maybe Jason should have been from Cleveland. Consider this: they've been in the Good Place for presumably hundreds of years and Jason missed his opportunity to witness the Jaguars finally be dominant in the league. A tragedy, if you will. Yeah, how long have our heroes been dead? I know this is a MST3K situation but it seems incredibly impractical that Michael's dedicated hundreds of years to this one neighborhood, given that human civilization is only a couple millennia old...
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Post by MarkInTexas on Jan 16, 2018 11:32:37 GMT -5
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Jan 16, 2018 15:21:32 GMT -5
MarkInTexas What surprises me is how many of those references I recognized either as second-order references or just general clichΓ©s but never actually connected back to The Wizard of Oz.
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Post by Angry Raisins on Jan 16, 2018 17:18:55 GMT -5
Happy that the show is still so willing to blow up the status quo.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Jan 16, 2018 22:11:58 GMT -5
Hey nbc.com, could you maybe not show commercials for next week's episode of The Good Place while I'm watching the most recent episode?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 22:21:42 GMT -5
...That article brings up the possibility that the whole show could end up being a dream. I would only accept this if the humans go back to their regular lives as better people and I would still be pretty pissed.
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Post by MarkInTexas on Jan 17, 2018 8:35:05 GMT -5
...That article brings up the possibility that the whole show could end up being a dream. I would only accept this if the humans go back to their regular lives as better people and I would still be pretty pissed. I can't imagine that being the endgame. I guess its possible, but that would be a total rip.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jan 17, 2018 10:44:52 GMT -5
...That article brings up the possibility that the whole show could end up being a dream. I would only accept this if the humans go back to their regular lives as better people and I would still be pretty pissed. I can't imagine that being the endgame. I guess its possible, but that would be a total rip. The only way I see it happens is if it's reincarnation, and it's not a dream, but they sort of remember it as one, and eventually all meet up in the real world as reincarnated people. But I think that that would be kind of a cheap ending, and beneath the show.
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Post by Incense on Jan 18, 2018 14:56:22 GMT -5
Shirt, I forgot we had this board. I posted this on the "what are you watching" board. From the Vulture interview with Jameela Jamil of The Good Place: Interviewer: Iβm eagerly anticipating the arrival of this Eternal Judge!Youβre in for a very big treat. You wonβt believe it. Iβm not allowed to say who it is, but youβre going to shit your pants. Sorry, shirt your pants. Itβs funny because I asked DβArcy [Carden] the week before, βWho would you most like to work with in the world?β And she said someoneβs name, and then a week later we found out that person would be joining the cast. Now I think DβArcyβs a witch. Iβm not even overhyping it, itβs so insane. Iβm privileged to be a part of this mad journey.
I am suddenly excited for this and I don't even know who it is. I don't know if I want to be spoiled or not!
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jan 18, 2018 21:27:36 GMT -5
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Post by Pedantic Editor Type on Jan 18, 2018 21:55:27 GMT -5
Ahhhh that was so good...
But... Michael?!?!
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Jan 19, 2018 22:00:12 GMT -5
Ahhhh that was so good... But... Michael?!?! Two factors in Michael's favor are: 1) Good Janet is still there with him in the Bad Place and Sean et. al. don't know about her. and 2) Sean et. al. are possibly in just as much trouble as Michael for covering up the fact that the humans had escaped their neighborhood. So I'm not terribly worried about Michael. On the other hand, with the plot twists this show throws at viewers, who knows? It's amazing how, even in an episode like tonight, where they really telegraphed the use of molotov cocktails at the end with Jason's jokes at the beginning of the episode, the show is still able to surprise and change the status quo in unexpected ways.
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Jan 21, 2018 15:47:14 GMT -5
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Post by π cahusserole π on Jan 23, 2018 1:25:50 GMT -5
Also this is so great https://www.instagram.com/p/BbAKcLYFZCJ Another fun fact, "Claire Danes' FIL" aka Hugh Dancy's father is, in fact, a philosophy professor who has lectured on moral particularism. This is now a plot hole as per the latest episode. Chidi was all impressed that Eleanor had read ahead on moral particularism! LIES ALL LIES
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Post by Pedantic Editor Type on Jan 23, 2018 9:47:15 GMT -5
Also this is so great https://www.instagram.com/p/BbAKcLYFZCJ Another fun fact, "Claire Danes' FIL" aka Hugh Dancy's father is, in fact, a philosophy professor who has lectured on moral particularism. This is now a plot hole as per the latest episode. Chidi was all impressed that Eleanor had read ahead on moral particularism! LIES ALL LIES That might have been in a previous reboot?
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Post by π cahusserole π on Jan 23, 2018 11:13:23 GMT -5
This is now a plot hole as per the latest episode. Chidi was all impressed that Eleanor had read ahead on moral particularism! LIES ALL LIES That might have been in a previous reboot? I considered that, but since Michael wrote a paper as well, that means it's this timeline.
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Post by haysoos on Jan 24, 2018 11:13:51 GMT -5
That might have been in a previous reboot? I considered that, but since Michael wrote a paper as well, that means it's this timeline. They're all in the same timeline. It's just that the humans have been neuralized hundreds of times, so they don't remember doing the same thing hundreds and hundreds of times before. Michael remembers them all, and presumably has taken the same Moral Particularism class multiple times. I'm guessing he doesn't write a new paper every time, though. He probably just re-uses the one that he got an A+ on. I wonder if there were reboots where he only got an A on that paper? Or ones where he accidentally submitted a paper that still had the marks written on it.
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Post by haysoos on Jan 24, 2018 11:19:20 GMT -5
They're all in the same timeline. It's just that the humans have been neuralized hundreds of times, so they don't remember doing the same thing hundreds and hundreds of times before. Michael remembers them all, and presumably has taken the same Moral Particularism class multiple times. I'm guessing he doesn't write a new paper every time, though. He probably just re-uses the one that he got an A+ on. I wonder if there were reboots where he only got an A on that paper? Or ones where he accidentally submitted a paper that still had the marks written on it. Michael didn't make common cause with the humans until the current iteration though. He's never taken Chidi's class before--the other three have, but not him Oh yeah! Huh.
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Post by Angry Raisins on Jan 26, 2018 12:19:19 GMT -5
I'd say "not clear" to the second question and "no" to the first. I mean, depends how you want to define "God", but Rudolph's character's role seemed pretty tightly limited to issuing rulings on people (and it sounded rather like it was only those people who appealed, rather than everyone) and watching TV in the meantime, rather than running the universe in any wider sense. Plus hydrogen was apparently around before she was.
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Jan 27, 2018 7:55:42 GMT -5
While Maya Rudolph was great, because Maya Rudolph is always great, I think I let myself get over-hyped for the big reveal and ended up disappointed. Returning to Jamil's interview, is Maya Rudolph really someone you "shirt your pants" over? From the standpoint of working with her maybe, but from an audience perspective, just pull up Wikipedia and see all her single episode or limited role credits from 2014 to now. These kind of bit parts are what she does. I feel like I see her all the time. She's terrific, but she's not a "get." Anyways, that personal and inconsequential gripe aside, another great episode. Love the New Yorker gag and Jason's misery over playing against his beloved Jaguars in Madden.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jan 27, 2018 8:48:00 GMT -5
This may not be anything profound or new, but it occurred to me this morning that this might be the most openly critical of religion show to air on a network. Setting aside the whole "every religion got about 5% right" stuff from the pilot, the show is just openly tearing down the internal logic of any sort of binary afterlife system. The four humans each represent a different quandary for such systems - the person who becomes a better person after dying, the well-intentioned person who fails to do good, the badly intentioned person who manages to do good despite their intentions, and the person too stupid to know any better - and points out how ridiculous it is to set an eternal fate for them based on a simple thumbs up or thumbs down.
At first, it looked like the show was attacking utilitarianism by taking it to its (il)logical conclusion, but I think it's more ambitious than that - it's attacking pretty much any simple classification of morality along simply binary good/bad lines. It makes it an incredibly humanistic (and optimistic) show, by insisting that human are complex beings capable of great good and great evil but also of bettering themselves. I think it may well be the best sitcom I've ever seen in a lot of ways, at the very least in terms of a thematic complexity most prestige dramas can't achieve. I honestly think it may be my favorite show on TV in one of TV's strongest eras, and the fact that it manages to be this deep and complex, while staying absolutely screamingly funny, is genuinely impressive.
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Jan 27, 2018 17:41:42 GMT -5
I disagree that the show is critical of religion, and I strongly disagree that The Good Place is a sitcom.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jan 28, 2018 7:52:47 GMT -5
I disagree that the show is critical of religion, and I strongly disagree that The Good Place is a sitcom. I'm using sitcom in the loosest sense, in that it's a half-hour, narrative, live-action comedy. There isn't really another word for that. But I think the show is incredibly critical of religious dogma regarding the afterlife. The show is premised on the inherent absurdity of the may most afterlife systems are set up, and only gets around being blatant about it because it's using something loosely amalgamated from a bunch of different systems than basing it on any one system.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Jan 28, 2018 23:14:33 GMT -5
I disagree that the show is critical of religion, and I strongly disagree that The Good Place is a sitcom. I'm using sitcom in the loosest sense, in that it's a half-hour, narrative, live-action comedy. There isn't really another word for that. But I think the show is incredibly critical of religious dogma regarding the afterlife. The show is premised on the inherent absurdity of the may most afterlife systems are set up, and only gets around being blatant about it because it's using something loosely amalgamated from a bunch of different systems than basing it on any one system. I don't think it especially matters if we call the show a sitcom or not. I'd call it a sitcom because as you said, there's really no better word for the kind of show that this is, and Schur has a long history of involvement in other sitcoms with a similar comedic aesthetic. As to whether it's critical of religion, I think that your clarification as to the show being critical of religious dogma about the afterlife is far more accurate than the show being critical of religion per se. And really, I think it's more an exploration of various moral systems, and the strengths and weaknesses of said systems. And it's just as possible for an atheist to have an unwavering commitment to, say, a utilitarian moral code as it is for a religious person to have a zealous commitment to what sort of conduct will earn one admission to their faith's equivalent of "the good place". And I feel like your argument kind of implies that a religious person must inherently have a morally simplistic and rigid approach to morality, which is certainly true of some religious people, but not everyone, not even all adherents of faiths which have moral codes of behavior which are in some ways rigid and unjust (like there's plenty Catholics who have no problem with abortion or gay people, for instance). I don't say this as an attack on atheism (I'm an atheist myself), just that I don't think that the show is critical of religion so much as it is of rigidly dogmatic moral codes. Part of this is probably more due to the fact that I'm less interested in the show's metaphysical angle, and more interesting in what the show is saying about real world society. Over the course of this season, I've become more and more convinced that the show is in fact critical of meritocratic societies as inherently unjust. And I'm kind of hoping that they further go on to argue that the meritocratic afterlife of the show is inherently unjust and cannot simply be fixed through mere cosmetic reforms. And personally, I think that the nature of the show's critique of meritocracy is more interesting than what it has to say about different faiths' conceptions of the afterlife (which is something that I don't personally think exists to begin with), as we currently live in an inherently meritocratic capitalist society where on some level both conservatives and liberals argue that the prosperous have earned and deserve their wealth while millions of others live below the poverty line, or lack health insurance, or cannot find work, or are homeless, etc., where in order to prove that they deserve welfare benefits poor people are forced to jump through needless frustrating and humiliating hoops, where only the brilliant and the talented are paid much mind in attempting to provide marginalized children the same sort of opportunities as children from families of means, where of the over ten million undocumented people residing in the country, the putative "liberal" reform to the situation is so harshly meritocratic that only those brought to the country as children and who prove themselves "worthy" by having a clean criminal record and attending college or joining the military are legally allowed to provide for themselves, and not have to face the prospect of deportation, just to give a few examples. So I'm interested in whether the show's end game in regards to an unjust meritocracy is to treat a couple of minor tweaks and reforms as a cure-all, or to argue that said meritocracy is structurally unjust and must be completely replaced.
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