Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Jan 28, 2018 23:34:09 GMT -5
I disagree that the show is critical of religion, and I strongly disagree that The Good Place is a sitcom. I'm using sitcom in the loosest sense, in that it's a half-hour, narrative, live-action comedy. There isn't really another word for that. But I think the show is incredibly critical of religious dogma regarding the afterlife. The show is premised on the inherent absurdity of the may most afterlife systems are set up, and only gets around being blatant about it because it's using something loosely amalgamated from a bunch of different systems than basing it on any one system. Interestingly, I disagree in both instances for the same reason. In "Dance Dance Resolution," when Chidi realizes that Michael's rebooted them thousands of times, he makes reference to Nietzsche's eternal recurrence, saying that they can't learn from mistakes because their consciousness keeps being rebooted, and are thus in a state of perpetual stasis, where they can't grow or change. Their objective then becomes to grow and change so that they can escape the confines of that cycle. On the metatextual level, this is interesting because Chidi (who lives in a sitcom) is opining that he lives in a sitcom. But I found the whole exchange really interesting because-- while I'm admittedly out of my depth here-- it sounds an awful lot like Buddhism.
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Post by MarkInTexas on Jan 29, 2018 14:03:02 GMT -5
While Maya Rudolph was great, because Maya Rudolph is always great, I think I let myself get over-hyped for the big reveal and ended up disappointed. Returning to Jamil's interview, is Maya Rudolph really someone you "shirt your pants" over? From the standpoint of working with her maybe, but from an audience perspective, just pull up Wikipedia and see all her single episode or limited role credits from 2014 to now. These kind of bit parts are what she does. I feel like I see her all the time. She's terrific, but she's not a "get." Anyways, that personal and inconsequential gripe aside, another great episode. Love the New Yorker gag and Jason's misery over playing against his beloved Jaguars in Madden. That was my reaction. I didn't watch the episode until yesterday, and had avoided spoilers all weekend because I wanted to be surprised by the big, huge name playing the judge (Bill Murray? Steve Martin? Meryl Streep? President Winfrey?). And yes, Rudolph was a delight in the role, and under normal circumstances, she'd be a really good person to get, but they hyped it way beyond what they should have. If they hadn't hyped it, I'd have been "Hey, Maya Rudolph!". Instead I got, "It's only Maya Rudolph?" And she's too good of an actress and a comedian to deserve "it's only Maya Rudolph". But yeah, this was a great episode. And they even managed to deliver one out-of-nowhere surprise when Bad Janet turned out to be Real Janet (I figured Michael would activate the Real Janet marble once Sean and Bad Janet left him alone in the room and they'd figure out how to escape then. Oh yeah, and Janet knows how to kick. Let's hope the various Janets don't ever decide to rebel. It looks like immortal beings would be no match for an army of Janets. But I digress). Also, the fake Chidi was a surprise, but, like Eleanor, I picked up that something wasn't quite kosher with his seeming to causally throw Jason and Tahani under the bus, so that wasn't as big of a surprise as it could have been (though I did love Chidi's real test). Next week is the season finale. I guess it's too much to ask there not be a cliffhanger, but at least we know it's coming back for a hopefully forking awesome Season 3. Oh wait, they can cuss again.
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Jan 29, 2018 14:33:50 GMT -5
That was my reaction. I didn't watch the episode until yesterday, and had avoided spoilers all weekend because I wanted to be surprised by the big, huge name playing the judge (Bill Murray? Steve Martin? Meryl Streep? President Winfrey?). And yes, Rudolph was a delight in the role, and under normal circumstances, she'd be a really good person to get, but they hyped it way beyond what they should have. If they hadn't hyped it, I'd have been "Hey, Maya Rudolph!". Instead I got, "It's only Maya Rudolph?" And she's too good of an actress and a comedian to deserve "it's only Maya Rudolph". Yep, except your dream casting is relatively restrained. The Snapes' guesses? Mrs. Snape: Ruth Bader Ginsburg Snape: Barack Obama That's how far we overshot.
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Post by Angry Raisins on Jan 30, 2018 14:41:31 GMT -5
Something I find intriguing about the series at present is how the current premise feels a little boxed in: you can't show that much more of the Bad Place, because actual physical suffering wouldn't be very funny and even all the side references to ass spiders and the like are funnier unseen. And if the Good Place is a legitimate paradise, you can't really show that effectively, and it works better as an unseen thing to strive for. So it seems like, if the show continues, we either go somewhere that hasn't really been mentioned yet, or (as I'm sort of hoping) they do something big and clever to blow up the premise again.
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Post by MarkInTexas on Feb 1, 2018 13:36:20 GMT -5
So, any predictions for tonight's season finale?
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Feb 1, 2018 16:54:01 GMT -5
Ooh boy, wild theorizing. For posterity, I will say that I believe the Good Place does not exist, and that at least one of the following points is true:
1. The Good Place is nirvana. 2. The Good Place is the void from which Janet materializes objects. 3. The Good Place is a psychic amalgam of the souls of its human inhabitants. 4. Unbeknownst to Michael, Vicki, etc., The Good Place is an invention of the higher-ups in the Bad Place, meant to 4a. ...further torture humans, by making their arbitrary/gratuitous torture seem consequential 4b. ...justify torturing humanity for eternity 4c. ...grant identity to the Immortal Beings-- there is no dark without light, etc.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Feb 1, 2018 18:33:07 GMT -5
I think the good place definitely exists, because the existence of the medium place - even if Mindy is the only one there - strongly implies that the good place is real. On top of that, a revelation that the good place doesn't exist would feel to me like they haven't played fair - it's been mentioned by too many people in-universe, in too many situations where "they're lying" doesn't ring true.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Feb 2, 2018 13:45:37 GMT -5
The finale was very good, but now that Eleanor and Chidi have had a conversation whilst alive, does this mean that they've retconned that time in the first episode where Chidi said he speaks French and when everyone around him speaks, he's hearing them speak French?
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Feb 2, 2018 14:03:34 GMT -5
The finale was very good, but now that Eleanor and Chidi have had a conversation whilst alive, does this mean that they've retconned that time in the first episode where Chidi said he speaks French and when everyone around him speaks, he's hearing them speak French? He's Senegalese, so French is presumably his first language-- he's just speaking English because he's teaching at an Australian university.
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Post by Pedantic Editor Type on Feb 2, 2018 14:09:54 GMT -5
The finale was very good, but now that Eleanor and Chidi have had a conversation whilst alive, does this mean that they've retconned that time in the first episode where Chidi said he speaks French and when everyone around him speaks, he's hearing them speak French? He's Senegalese, so French is presumably his first language-- he's just speaking English because he's teaching at an Australian university. I assumed that too (speaking English because Australia) - BUT he also didn't have an accent at all. Of course William Jackson Harper doesn't have a Senegalese accent, but my stronger suspicion is this is some sort of purgatory-verse, and not the "REAL" world. Brains in a jar sort of thing.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Feb 2, 2018 14:27:35 GMT -5
He's Senegalese, so French is presumably his first language-- he's just speaking English because he's teaching at an Australian university. I assumed that too (speaking English because Australia) - BUT he also didn't have an accent at all. Of course William Jackson Harper doesn't have a Senegalese accent, but my stronger suspicion is this is some sort of purgatory-verse, and not the "REAL" world. Brains in a jar sort of thing. I think that's possible, but I'm also not sure how much of a difference it would make. I suspect they're just hand-waving his accent away because it would be weird for him to start affecting an accent in season 3.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Feb 2, 2018 16:01:58 GMT -5
Also a couple of other observations about last night's season finale:
-The seemingly inevitable nod that the show was bound to do eventually to Ted Danson's role on Cheers was handled nicely here with Michael-as-bartender. It didn't hit the viewer over the head with "Hey, get it, it's like Cheers," or act like it was being super clever about it.
-I'm pretty sure that cyberbullying Ryan Lochte into quitting Instagram is probably actually the most morally commendable thing that Eleanor has done in her life or afterlife.
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Post by Angry Raisins on Feb 2, 2018 16:21:24 GMT -5
He's Senegalese, so French is presumably his first language-- he's just speaking English because he's teaching at an Australian university. I assumed that too (speaking English because Australia) - BUT he also didn't have an accent at all. Of course William Jackson Harper doesn't have a Senegalese accent, but my stronger suspicion is this is some sort of purgatory-verse, and not the "REAL" world. Brains in a jar sort of thing. My vague sense of "the rules" definitely makes me think it's not the real world (actually reversing their deaths just seems like messing around too far, plus there's no reason to think the judge couldn't just make a simulation). So I'd bet on it not being "real". However... ... there is the intriguing possibility that it is real and their deaths have been reversed, and since it's only for the time-limited purposes of assessing them the test is going to end, and since they really are alive again it's going to end by them all somehow dying again. Which has a lot of dramatic potential. (Edit: Thinking about it, it's maybe somewhat in support of the second notion that the judge was so against the idea, despite being perfectly happy to make mere simulations in the previous episode.)
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Post by Pedantic Editor Type on Feb 2, 2018 16:35:49 GMT -5
I assumed that too (speaking English because Australia) - BUT he also didn't have an accent at all. Of course William Jackson Harper doesn't have a Senegalese accent, but my stronger suspicion is this is some sort of purgatory-verse, and not the "REAL" world. Brains in a jar sort of thing. My vague sense of "the rules" definitely makes me thinks it's not the real world (actually reversing their deaths just seems like messing around too far, plus there's no reason to think the judge couldn't just make a simulation). So I'd bet on it not being "real". However... ... there is the intriguing possibility that it is real and their deaths have been reversed, and since it's only for the time-limited purposes of assessing them the test is going to end, and since they really are alive again it's going to end by them all somehow dying again. Which has a lot of dramatic potential. (Edit: Thinking about it, it's maybe somewhat in support of the second notion that the judge was so against the idea, despite being perfectly happy to make mere simulations in the previous episode.) I do strongly suspect that they'll die again at some point soon, but I also think that might be part of the simulation. But it's certainly possible that they wanted to legit see if they could change the world... even though that seems like a lot of messing with reality.
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Post by 🐍 cahusserole 🐍 on Feb 2, 2018 21:09:59 GMT -5
Here's something I felt like typing out. Eleanor's past Google searches that pop up when she types "what do we owe each other":
wedding fall bride farts wedding fall nip slip wing place has liquor license phoenix what is this gross thing on my foot when is kylie due which az diamondbacks are single what's a good excuse to skip baby shower
other suggestions that pop up that she has not previously searched for: walmart walgreens what time is it whole foods whatsapp what is kylie's snapchat what is daca what is cfpb what does despacito mean what does smdh mean what does trump eat what drink makes you drunk fastest what do white people do for fun what do white people think theyre doing what do white people want what do worms eat what do we have to do to impeach what do we say to the god of death what do we want change when do we want it now what do weasels eat what do we owe to god what do we owe to our veterans what do we owe each other
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Post by MarkInTexas on Feb 2, 2018 23:43:36 GMT -5
I have no idea if William Jackson Harper can do a Senegalese accent, or for that matter, any accents. I don't have the slightest clue what a Senegalese accent would sound like. I do know that a Senegalese native who is teaching in Australia would not be speaking with an American accent. I vote simulation.
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Feb 3, 2018 0:02:22 GMT -5
I have no idea if William Jackson Harper can do a Senegalese accent, or for that matter, any accents. I don't have the slightest clue what a Senegalese accent would sound like. I do know that a Senegalese native who is teaching in Australia would not be speaking with an American accent. I vote simulation. Eh... Chidi doesn't have an accent in any of his flashbacks. I think this is a dead end. Although, if this is a simulation, you do wonder what the ethics of fabricating an entire planet's worth of people for the sake of a moral argument would be.
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Post by Angry Raisins on Feb 4, 2018 9:29:21 GMT -5
I have no idea if William Jackson Harper can do a Senegalese accent, or for that matter, any accents. I don't have the slightest clue what a Senegalese accent would sound like. I do know that a Senegalese native who is teaching in Australia would not be speaking with an American accent. I vote simulation. Eh... Chidi doesn't have an accent in any of his flashbacks. I think this is a dead end. Although, if this is a simulation, you do wonder what the ethics of fabricating an entire planet's worth of people for the sake of a moral argument would be. Season 3 is a Black Mirror crossover.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Feb 4, 2018 13:01:51 GMT -5
Eh... Chidi doesn't have an accent in any of his flashbacks. I think this is a dead end. Although, if this is a simulation, you do wonder what the ethics of fabricating an entire planet's worth of people for the sake of a moral argument would be. Season 3 is a Black Mirror crossover. So it's going to suck and be really pretentious?
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Feb 4, 2018 14:04:26 GMT -5
Season 3 is a Black Mirror crossover. So it's going to suck and be really pretentious? Do you have no chill lol
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Post by Dr Livingstone on Feb 6, 2018 1:37:18 GMT -5
I have no idea if William Jackson Harper can do a Senegalese accent, or for that matter, any accents. I don't have the slightest clue what a Senegalese accent would sound like. I do know that a Senegalese native who is teaching in Australia would not be speaking with an American accent. I vote simulation. This does not follow for me. I knew ESL academics when I lived in the UK who had lived in the UK for some time who spoke in American accents because that's how they learned it (and/or the influence of American cultural exports). They'd picked up British slang and phrases, but while they weren't as common as people who spoke with their own country's accent or who spoke with British accents, they weren't exactly a novelty either.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Feb 13, 2018 14:26:22 GMT -5
Part of this is probably more due to the fact that I'm less interested in the show's metaphysical angle, and more interesting in what the show is saying about real world society. Over the course of this season, I've become more and more convinced that the show is in fact critical of meritocratic societies as inherently unjust. And I'm kind of hoping that they further go on to argue that the meritocratic afterlife of the show is inherently unjust and cannot simply be fixed through mere cosmetic reforms. And personally, I think that the nature of the show's critique of meritocracy is more interesting than what it has to say about different faiths' conceptions of the afterlife (which is something that I don't personally think exists to begin with), as we currently live in an inherently meritocratic capitalist society where on some level both conservatives and liberals argue that the prosperous have earned and deserve their wealth while millions of others live below the poverty line, or lack health insurance, or cannot find work, or are homeless, etc., where in order to prove that they deserve welfare benefits poor people are forced to jump through needless frustrating and humiliating hoops, where only the brilliant and the talented are paid much mind in attempting to provide marginalized children the same sort of opportunities as children from families of means, where of the over ten million undocumented people residing in the country, the putative "liberal" reform to the situation is so harshly meritocratic that only those brought to the country as children and who prove themselves "worthy" by having a clean criminal record and attending college or joining the military are legally allowed to provide for themselves, and not have to face the prospect of deportation, just to give a few examples. So I'm interested in whether the show's end game in regards to an unjust meritocracy is to treat a couple of minor tweaks and reforms as a cure-all, or to argue that said meritocracy is structurally unjust and must be completely replaced. This is really interesting, especially when you consider both Michael and Eleanor's conversation about the reboots (in every variation, she always ends up getting help from Chidi) and that Michael's plan to right Eleanor's ship post-resurrection/simulation is to...plant the seeds for her to meet Chidi. Eleanor was who probably had the best chance of figuring out a 'good' life on her own given a second chance (tangent: Tahani and Jason's check-in episodes at the beginning of season 3 are going to be FASCINATING). She even got far enough to surround herself with other people who, on the surface, could have functioned as good people mentors. I don't think she was necessarily presented that different than, say, mid season 1 Eleanor. And yet...outside of the very specific, one in a billion, support structure she couldn't quite get over the hump of achieving her optimum moral self. An indictment of meritocracy indeed.
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Post by 🐍 cahusserole 🐍 on Feb 17, 2018 23:29:56 GMT -5
I successfully got two of my friends to watch The Good Place, and now they are impatiently waiting for the second season to get on Netflix already.
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Post by MarkInTexas on Feb 18, 2018 20:20:21 GMT -5
With Thursday Night Football moving to Fox next season, it seems likely that we won't have the two-month hiatus in November and December that we had the last two seasons. Assuming its another 13-episode season, they can premiere on September 20 with an hour-long episode, and then run a new episode every week except Thanksgiving night, and wrap the season up on December 13. That's assuming it stays on Thursdays, of course. Then again, as long as Big Bang and Young Big Bang are holding court over on CBS, NBC might not want to fiddle with their lineup too much.
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Post by Dr Livingstone on Jun 13, 2018 5:28:20 GMT -5
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Post by Powerthirteen on Jun 13, 2018 10:40:06 GMT -5
I gotta admit I'm surprised that we're actually back in the "real world" and not some kind of simulation.
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Post by Dr Livingstone on Jun 18, 2018 12:17:15 GMT -5
I have to admit I was more surprised that people expected otherwise: maybe if it had been doctor who, fringe, or the x-files, something like that, but the show for all that it invokes the cosmic themes is really more interested in individual choices than scifi what-if-ing. Everything else is just backdrop.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 13:26:16 GMT -5
Oh, hey I forgot about this thread.
Are you guys listening to The Good Place Podcast? Lots of juicy behind-the-scenes insight there.
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Post by MarkInTexas on Jun 22, 2018 12:00:07 GMT -5
There's a Good Place podcast? Where is the Good Place podcast?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 20:11:47 GMT -5
There's a Good Place podcast? Where is the Good Place podcast? Yep, there's a Good Place podcast, and it's hosted by Marc Evan Jackson. I haven't got around to it yet, because Hollywood Handbook needs to be relistened to for the fifth time, but the pitch of 'Marc Evan Jackson-hosted podcast' is enough to sell me.
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