|
|
Post by Dr Livingstone on May 18, 2018 13:06:00 GMT -5
I saw it! I liked it! Just like the first one, it shouldn't work, but it does.
I live in hope that the movie will lead to a revival of Cable & Deadpool. Looking at both movies, I think you can definitely tell that C&D is the series that hooked Ryan Reynolds, because it's definitely the vibe and balance they hit in both movies, more so than any of the books before or after it (with the exception perhaps of that one X-Force run, which hit a lot of the same notes.)
|
|
|
|
Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on May 18, 2018 19:38:01 GMT -5
I liked it too, though they recycle some gags from the first one (maybe it's a meta thing).
The X-Force sequence was hilarious. Domino is a badass.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 23:40:32 GMT -5
Welp, I left the movie theater while the movie was still going. Something I rarely do, I watched all of assassin's creed after accidentally going into the wrong theater for fuck's sake. But nope, couldn't do it, some asshole who just had to make himself the center of attention was laughing and making comments LOUDLY, like not even normal talking to someone next to him, but because he wanted everyone to hear him laugh when there wasn't even a joke on screen or his oh so clever joke about Teen Titans Go movie, "at least it ain't justice leauge".
Crowds are the fucking worst.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ben Grimm on May 20, 2018 13:25:38 GMT -5
Saw it this morning; both of us quite liked it. I thought it was generally better than the first, in part because it didn't have a shitty origin story stapled to it, and in part because the budget allowed them to do bigger setpieces. The X-Force gag was great, as was the time-travel montage at the end.
I do think it's super-weird that these feel more like proper X-Men movies than the actual X-Men movies do.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lt. Broccoli on May 20, 2018 15:37:23 GMT -5
ZOMG ![]()  |
|
|
|
Post by Floyd Diabolical Barber on May 20, 2018 15:50:28 GMT -5
I posted this in random movie thoughts, but maybe it belongs here. If the Marvel Cinematic Universe had a hair on it's ass, Cable would somehow be the one to actually bring down Thanos.
|
|
Crash Test Dumbass
AV Clubber 
ffc what now
Posts: 7,058
Gender (additional): mostly snacks
|
Post by Crash Test Dumbass on May 20, 2018 16:38:40 GMT -5
I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. I even went into it thinking "Why am I here watching this? I never really read any Deadpool, Cable, or X-Force comics, and hadn't even heard of some of these characters". But it was a very good time, and I also appreciate the people noping out of combat and the time travel at the end. Also also, Cable had a lot of pouches, and I did at least know that about his character!
|
|
|
|
Post by Prole Hole on May 21, 2018 6:10:24 GMT -5
Saw it, enjoyed it. If you liked the first Deadpool then you'll like this one, if you didn't then you won't. It's nice to not have to putter around in an origin story and just get on with stuff, that at least feels refreshing, but it's the same sense of humour, the same determined lack of reverence for anything and everything, and the same sense that these universes can be fun, as well as self-serious. And, remarkably, I actually felt invested in the relationships, and the final "dead girlfriend sends man back to "carry on without her" ought to be an absolutely unforgivable cliche - and maybe it is, but they do somehow make it work, and the emotion of the piece lands which, given how much I cannot stand Morena Baccairn is quite the achievement. I felt more invested in the emotional end of this film than I did in Infinity Wars, and given that this is just two hours of pissing about is quite something. And Cable is terrific, as indeed is basically everyone. Yeah, thoroughly enjoyed this. |
|
|
|
Post by MarkInTexas on May 22, 2018 9:37:51 GMT -5
For whatever reason, I can never recognize Matt Damon when he pops up in a cameo. I didn't recognize him way back when when he did a cameo in the (underrated) sex comedy Eurotrip. I didn't recognize him last November when he popped up in Thor: Ragnarok, and I didn't recognize him last night in his cameo here. I also didn't recognize Brad Pitt during his few seconds on screen. I guess its appropriate that the last trailer before the movie started was for Ocean's Eight.
As for the movie itself, I liked it, though not as much as the first one.
Oh, and every time Karan Soni showed up, I couldn't help but be reminded of the obnoxious Diet Coke ad that ran during seemingly every commercial break during the Olympics.
|
|
|
|
Post by Murray the Demonic Skull on May 22, 2018 10:04:19 GMT -5
For whatever reason, I can never recognize Matt Damon when he pops up in a cameo. I didn't recognize him way back when when he did a cameo in the (underrated) sex comedy Eurotrip. I didn't recognize him last November when he popped up in Thor: Ragnarok, and I didn't recognize him last night in his cameo here. I also didn't recognize Brad Pitt during his few seconds on screen. I guess its appropriate that the last trailer before the movie started was for Ocean's Eight. As for the movie itself, I liked it, though not as much as the first one. Oh, and every time Karan Soni showed up, I couldn't help but be reminded of the obnoxious Diet Coke ad that ran during seemingly every commercial break during the Olympics.
Did you spot Alan Tudyk ? (I didn't)
|
|
|
|
Post by chalkdevil 😈 on May 22, 2018 10:10:45 GMT -5
For whatever reason, I can never recognize Matt Damon when he pops up in a cameo. I didn't recognize him way back when when he did a cameo in the (underrated) sex comedy Eurotrip. I didn't recognize him last November when he popped up in Thor: Ragnarok, and I didn't recognize him last night in his cameo here. I also didn't recognize Brad Pitt during his few seconds on screen. I guess its appropriate that the last trailer before the movie started was for Ocean's Eight. As for the movie itself, I liked it, though not as much as the first one. Oh, and every time Karan Soni showed up, I couldn't help but be reminded of the obnoxious Diet Coke ad that ran during seemingly every commercial break during the Olympics. I didn't recognize Matt Damon either. I think I was distracted because one redneck was definitely Alan Tudyk, so I was bother that the other wasn't Tyler Labine. I just wanted a Tucker & Dale cameo and I was bothered that it was only a Tucker cameo and plus some rando. I refuse to believe that Tyler Labine is busier than Matt Damon. I did see Brad Pitt though. That one seemed telegraphed that it was going to be someone famous so when Vanisher was veering towards the power lines, I was ready. |
|
|
|
Post by Ben Grimm on May 22, 2018 13:32:28 GMT -5
For whatever reason, I can never recognize Matt Damon when he pops up in a cameo. I didn't recognize him way back when when he did a cameo in the (underrated) sex comedy Eurotrip. I didn't recognize him last November when he popped up in Thor: Ragnarok, and I didn't recognize him last night in his cameo here. I also didn't recognize Brad Pitt during his few seconds on screen. I guess its appropriate that the last trailer before the movie started was for Ocean's Eight. As for the movie itself, I liked it, though not as much as the first one. Oh, and every time Karan Soni showed up, I couldn't help but be reminded of the obnoxious Diet Coke ad that ran during seemingly every commercial break during the Olympics.
Did you spot Alan Tudyk ? (I didn't)
My wife did, and asked me if it was him, and I thought no way. |
|
|
|
Post by Dr Livingstone on May 22, 2018 16:11:43 GMT -5
Saw it, enjoyed it. If you liked the first Deadpool then you'll like this one, if you didn't then you won't. It's nice to not have to putter around in an origin story and just get on with stuff, that at least feels refreshing, but it's the same sense of humour, the same determined lack of reverence for anything and everything, and the same sense that these universes can be fun, as well as self-serious. And, remarkably, I actually felt invested in the relationships, and the final "dead girlfriend sends man back to "carry on without her" ought to be an absolutely unforgivable cliche - and maybe it is, but they do somehow make it work, and the emotion of the piece lands which, given how much I cannot stand Morena Baccairn is quite the achievement. I felt more invested in the emotional end of this film than I did in Infinity Wars, and given that this is just two hours of pissing about is quite something. And Cable is terrific, as indeed is basically everyone. Yeah, thoroughly enjoyed this. ]Yes, SERIOUSLY, my thought through the whole movie was "this literally is the definition of fridging and it should make me mad, but it works? Possibly because she still felt like a person with her own inner life and her death felt tragic on its own, outside of how it made men feel (you can not say the same thing about Cable's family, but eh)? And I liked how much his guilt over the whole thing felt realistic and not manpain-y. And that his apology also felt right, and about her. It's such a subtle thing I have trouble really describing why it works, but it does. It shouldn't, but it does, which is basically both deadpool movies in a nutshell [/quote] Also, i really liked how they did Cable. And I hope the movie is uber successful and that now that Disney is getting all the fox stuff (which is otherwise a bad thing in my book) that this will lead to more Cable & Deadpool comics, which much like the movies, shouldn't work at all, but I freaking adore them. |
|
|
|
Post by Dr Livingstone on May 22, 2018 16:15:21 GMT -5
I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. I even went into it thinking "Why am I here watching this? I never really read any Deadpool, Cable, or X-Force comics, and hadn't even heard of some of these characters". But it was a very good time, and I also appreciate the people noping out of combat and the time travel at the end. Also also, Cable had a lot of pouches, and I did at least know that about his character! You should read some of the Cable & Deadpool comics. Their influence is pretty strong in the movies, and they are great. Even though they definitely should not have worked on any level whatsoever. Plus, strangely enough, it was the only series where the the civil war craziness actually made a degree of sense and had some pathos going for it. |
|
|
|
Deadpool 2
May 26, 2018 20:44:59 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on May 26, 2018 20:44:59 GMT -5
Saw it, enjoyed it. If you liked the first Deadpool then you'll like this one, if you didn't then you won't. False, I disliked the first one and actually thought this one was pretty decent. Like you said, the relationships between the characters were actually kind of touching, and unlike the first movie where I didn't laugh once, Deathspool wasn't like the only character apart from Generic Girlfriend Character to get stuff to do in this one, and best of all unlike the first movie where I didn't like any of the jokes at all, I laughed at like three of the jokes in this movie. Also Domino is a good character; I liked her good lock combination-cracking skills. A lot of it still felt tired, dated, and hacky. That random sentence of Spanish Deadpools knew at the beginning was basically stealing a joke from the Vincent Vaughn film Dodgedball, most of the jokes are played out, The Deadpool still seems like the kind of insufferable guy who's going to start talking about epic bacon at any moment, and Tall Metal Guy's CGI when he was reading his small book looks like a PS3 game in a bad way, but it was a perfectly pleasant way to spend two hours of my life, unlike the first film, which was almost distressingly bad. |
|
oppy all along
TI Forumite
Who's been messing up everything? It was oppy all along
Posts: 2,767
|
Post by oppy all along on May 27, 2018 1:09:08 GMT -5
Huh. Ironic. I was actually not on board with Deadpool 2. The opening where Vanessa got fridged immediately put a bad taste in my mouth, and making the whole movie from there the male lead's character development was a dampener on the rest of the movie. It meant that for me the good parts were muted (The X-Force failing to heed a wind warning, Deadpool regrowing his legs, Domino) and the bad parts were exacerbated. The fact that you're making fun of bad parts of comic movies don't change the fact that you're depicting the bad parts. Whether it's fridgeing Vanessa, the overly long death scene at the end that's made redundant shortly after, the big CGI fight helpfully lampshaded by "time for the big CGI fight!"
What else, what else. Deadpool's references to other comic book movies get really tiresome after like the first ten minutes. Over-reliance on fourth-wall breaking humour. TJ Miller. Hiring Terry Crews to play a scary black man and killing him off in five minutes, which is just a criminal waste of talent. Treating killing a paedophile like it's some big terrible thing that Deadpool needs to atone for when it's just about the only good thing he does in the first half of the movie.
And yeah, I know about the post-credits scene. Doesn't change how I perceived the movie, and add "no consequences to any of this" to the list of the worst parts of comic book movies that Deadpool 2 'satirises'.
|
|
|
|
Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on May 27, 2018 13:10:19 GMT -5
Huh. Ironic. I was actually not on board with Deadpool 2. The opening where Vanessa got fridged immediately put a bad taste in my mouth, and making the whole movie from there the male lead's character development was a dampener on the rest of the movie. It meant that for me the good parts were muted (The X-Force failing to heed a wind warning, Deadpool regrowing his legs, Domino) and the bad parts were exacerbated. The fact that you're making fun of bad parts of comic movies don't change the fact that you're depicting the bad parts. Whether it's fridgeing Vanessa, the overly long death scene at the end that's made redundant shortly after, the big CGI fight helpfully lampshaded by "time for the big CGI fight!" What else, what else. Deadpool's references to other comic book movies get really tiresome after like the first ten minutes. Over-reliance on fourth-wall breaking humour. TJ Miller. Hiring Terry Crews to play a scary black man and killing him off in five minutes, which is just a criminal waste of talent. Treating killing a paedophile like it's some big terrible thing that Deadpool needs to atone for when it's just about the only good thing he does in the first half of the movie. And yeah, I know about the post-credits scene. Doesn't change how I perceived the movie, and add "no consequences to any of this" to the list of the worst parts of comic book movies that Deadpool 2 'satirises'. What was also weird about that scene is the way the film acts like Large Metal Man's only problem is that he just needs to learn to bend a few rules and say "fuck" once in a while, but earlier in the film he literally stood by while a 14 year old abuse survivor was being locked up to be sent to a maximum security concentration camp for mutants. Like he literally collaborates with a fascist security state, and the film wants us to think that Deadpool is the one who was out of line. Like American society in this fictional film is evil, full stop, in the way that it deals with mutants, but we're supposed to go "Look, it sucks this fourteen year old was put into a violent prison camp for adults, but hey, it's the law, and the fact that Poorly Animated Metal Man's response to this was to stand by is at least an equally valid response as Deadpool's response of fighting against it". With the Deadpool franchise, you can make some like ironic fourth-wall breaking jokes about the body count, but really as far as like serious pathos stuff goes you really have to either to a) ignore the fact that Deadpool kills a lot of people and never has to reckon with it or b) devote the film to all the anonymous people he's brutally killed, because of all the anonymous random baddies he's killed (most of them foreigners because these films certainly haven't abandoned the trappings of scary Soviets/Ex-Soviets/citizens of other countries the US is less than entirely friendly being the antagonists that is so typical of these sorts of films), some of them are probably just small time henchmen. But we're just supposed to laugh at how he shot Anonymous Foreign Gang Member #76 in the balls first before he stuck a sword through his head or whatever, but then the two people they focus on the ethics of killing are literally two of the ringleaders of a school which is systematically physically (and, it's heavily implied, sexually) abusing its students. Also, the thing that I did find moving about this film is the lengths to which Deadpool is willing to go to try to help out this kid who's had a shit life and which society and Josh Brolin's character in particular have written off as a lost cause and an inherently violent person, but then in that case how many of these anonymous criminals who Deadpool has killed throughout the franchise were also made into the people they were because of the circumstances of their shitty pasts? But I did laugh like three or four times at this movie, which is three or four more times than I laughed at the first one, and Domino is a very good character, so I did like this one more than the first movie. |
|
oppy all along
TI Forumite
Who's been messing up everything? It was oppy all along
Posts: 2,767
|
Post by oppy all along on May 27, 2018 18:00:25 GMT -5
What was also weird about that scene is the way the film acts like Large Metal Man's only problem is that he just needs to learn to bend a few rules and say "fuck" once in a while, but earlier in the film he literally stood by while a 14 year old abuse survivor was being locked up to be sent to a maximum security concentration camp for mutants. Like he literally collaborates with a fascist security state, and the film wants us to think that Deadpool is the one who was out of line. Like American society in this fictional film is evil, full stop, in the way that it deals with mutants, but we're supposed to go "Look, it sucks this fourteen year old was put into a violent prison camp for adults, but hey, it's the law, and the fact that Poorly Animated Metal Man's response to this was to stand by is at least an equally valid response as Deadpool's response of fighting against it". With the Deadpool franchise, you can make some like ironic fourth-wall breaking jokes about the body count, but really as far as like serious pathos stuff goes you really have to either to a) ignore the fact that Deadpool kills a lot of people and never has to reckon with it or b) devote the film to all the anonymous people he's brutally killed, because of all the anonymous random baddies he's killed (most of them foreigners because these films certainly haven't abandoned the trappings of scary Soviets/Ex-Soviets/citizens of other countries the US is less than entirely friendly being the antagonists that is so typical of these sorts of films), some of them are probably just small time henchmen. But we're just supposed to laugh at how he shot Anonymous Foreign Gang Member #76 in the balls first before he stuck a sword through his head or whatever, but then the two people they focus on the ethics of killing are literally two of the ringleaders of a school which is systematically physically (and, it's heavily implied, sexually) abusing its students. Also, the thing that I did find moving about this film is the lengths to which Deadpool is willing to go to try to help out this kid who's had a shit life and which society and Josh Brolin's character in particular have written off as a lost cause and an inherently violent person, but then in that case how many of these anonymous criminals who Deadpool has killed throughout the franchise were also made into the people they were because of the circumstances of their shitty pasts? But I did laugh like three or four times at this movie, which is three or four more times than I laughed at the first one, and Domino is a very good character, so I did like this one more than the first movie. Right, at the very least I was expecting large metal man to go "I will be taking the child and all other children in this facility to X-Men manor, as well as any other children who would like to leave." Instead we cut to Russell in Serious Adult Prison, all the other children still in the mutant torture and abuse boarding school, and Colossus apparently having gone home to celebrate a job well done. Domino says this place tortured her, so it's been torturing mutants for a long time. And an institution as invested in mutant rights as the X-Men and Charles Xavier didn't know about it? Remembering Xavier is the mutant equivalent of 'omnipresent surveillance state'. And yeah, the tonal disconnect between "haha Domino just killed a room full of people and children are applauding her" and "if Russell kills JUST ONE CHILD ABUSER WHO PERSONALLY VICTIMISED HIM then he will be LOST FOREVER" is ludicrous. Not to mention Deadpool's funny sociopathic cab driver kills the guy like ten minutes later. If you're going to start taking thinly justified murder seriously, there's a lot that needs to be changed about the Deadpool franchise. Not to mention Colossus seems happy to turn a blind eye to the mass slaughter of abusive guards later in the movie. A lot of this just seems lazily done. Also, having Deadpool say "that's just lazy writing" doesn't change the fact that something is lazy writing. Nor does "you see it was intentionally lazy writing, for a joke". Also, Cable uses his last time travel pulse to go back in time and save Deadpool when he could literally just remove Deadpool's collar and allow his mutant powers to regen him. He's already going against Deadpool's wishes anyway, why not do it in a way that lets him go back to his family? Because they need a Cable and Deadpool sequel? This is the same lazy writing that led to "let's kill off the female love interest, I bet that's never been done before". |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 18:59:05 GMT -5
Huh. Ironic. I was actually not on board with Deadpool 2. The opening where Vanessa got fridged immediately put a bad taste in my mouth, and making the whole movie from there the male lead's character development was a dampener on the rest of the movie. It meant that for me the good parts were muted (The X-Force failing to heed a wind warning, Deadpool regrowing his legs, Domino) and the bad parts were exacerbated. The fact that you're making fun of bad parts of comic movies don't change the fact that you're depicting the bad parts. Whether it's fridgeing Vanessa, the overly long death scene at the end that's made redundant shortly after, the big CGI fight helpfully lampshaded by "time for the big CGI fight!" What else, what else. Deadpool's references to other comic book movies get really tiresome after like the first ten minutes. Over-reliance on fourth-wall breaking humour. TJ Miller. Hiring Terry Crews to play a scary black man and killing him off in five minutes, which is just a criminal waste of talent. Treating killing a paedophile like it's some big terrible thing that Deadpool needs to atone for when it's just about the only good thing he does in the first half of the movie. And yeah, I know about the post-credits scene. Doesn't change how I perceived the movie, and add "no consequences to any of this" to the list of the worst parts of comic book movies that Deadpool 2 'satirises'. The shoe doesn't feel that good, does it? |
|
|
|
Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on May 27, 2018 19:19:42 GMT -5
What was also weird about that scene is the way the film acts like Large Metal Man's only problem is that he just needs to learn to bend a few rules and say "fuck" once in a while, but earlier in the film he literally stood by while a 14 year old abuse survivor was being locked up to be sent to a maximum security concentration camp for mutants. Like he literally collaborates with a fascist security state, and the film wants us to think that Deadpool is the one who was out of line. Like American society in this fictional film is evil, full stop, in the way that it deals with mutants, but we're supposed to go "Look, it sucks this fourteen year old was put into a violent prison camp for adults, but hey, it's the law, and the fact that Poorly Animated Metal Man's response to this was to stand by is at least an equally valid response as Deadpool's response of fighting against it". With the Deadpool franchise, you can make some like ironic fourth-wall breaking jokes about the body count, but really as far as like serious pathos stuff goes you really have to either to a) ignore the fact that Deadpool kills a lot of people and never has to reckon with it or b) devote the film to all the anonymous people he's brutally killed, because of all the anonymous random baddies he's killed (most of them foreigners because these films certainly haven't abandoned the trappings of scary Soviets/Ex-Soviets/citizens of other countries the US is less than entirely friendly being the antagonists that is so typical of these sorts of films), some of them are probably just small time henchmen. But we're just supposed to laugh at how he shot Anonymous Foreign Gang Member #76 in the balls first before he stuck a sword through his head or whatever, but then the two people they focus on the ethics of killing are literally two of the ringleaders of a school which is systematically physically (and, it's heavily implied, sexually) abusing its students. Also, the thing that I did find moving about this film is the lengths to which Deadpool is willing to go to try to help out this kid who's had a shit life and which society and Josh Brolin's character in particular have written off as a lost cause and an inherently violent person, but then in that case how many of these anonymous criminals who Deadpool has killed throughout the franchise were also made into the people they were because of the circumstances of their shitty pasts? But I did laugh like three or four times at this movie, which is three or four more times than I laughed at the first one, and Domino is a very good character, so I did like this one more than the first movie. Right, at the very least I was expecting large metal man to go "I will be taking the child and all other children in this facility to X-Men manor, as well as any other children who would like to leave." Instead we cut to Russell in Serious Adult Prison, all the other children still in the mutant torture and abuse boarding school, and Colossus apparently having gone home to celebrate a job well done. Domino says this place tortured her, so it's been torturing mutants for a long time. And an institution as invested in mutant rights as the X-Men and Charles Xavier didn't know about it? Remembering Xavier is the mutant equivalent of 'omnipresent surveillance state'. And yeah, the tonal disconnect between "haha Domino just killed a room full of people and children are applauding her" and "if Russell kills JUST ONE CHILD ABUSER WHO PERSONALLY VICTIMISED HIM then he will be LOST FOREVER" is ludicrous. Not to mention Deadpool's funny sociopathic cab driver kills the guy like ten minutes later. If you're going to start taking thinly justified murder seriously, there's a lot that needs to be changed about the Deadpool franchise. Not to mention Colossus seems happy to turn a blind eye to the mass slaughter of abusive guards later in the movie. A lot of this just seems lazily done. Also, having Deadpool say "that's just lazy writing" doesn't change the fact that something is lazy writing. Nor does "you see it was intentionally lazy writing, for a joke". Also, Cable uses his last time travel pulse to go back in time and save Deadpool when he could literally just remove Deadpool's collar and allow his mutant powers to regen him. He's already going against Deadpool's wishes anyway, why not do it in a way that lets him go back to his family? Because they need a Cable and Deadpool sequel? This is the same lazy writing that led to "let's kill off the female love interest, I bet that's never been done before". Yes, that bolded sentence is a great point. The film could have told essentially the same story of "Russell isn't a bad kid, but he's had a shitty life, and in the future Cable's come from, he has become a dangerous criminal", without having the single act that sets him down this path being "killing a profoundly evil man who had abused him", because yeah, with the Deadpool franchise, that doesn't work, since Deadpool and friends' whole thing is "brutally killing a whole shitton of criminals without a second thought and making jokes about it". Also, to your point about killing off Morena Baccarin's character, my initial thought was "Well, that's not great, but like, whatever, I guess, because the film makes fun of all sorts of superhero movie tropes and 'Main Character's Girlfriend gets fridged in a sequel'" certainly is a thing in superhero films and action films in general, but, thinking about it after reading your last sentence, Deadpool doesn't really even call this out as a tired and sexist trope via fourth-wall-breaking that much, does he? Also, while we're on the subject of shitty tropes, for a film series that's generally anti-sexual assault and anti-homophobia, it's definitely not great that there's a running "joke" where Deadpool jokingly pretends to be in love with Colossus (or whatever his name is) and is constantly grabbing his ass and stuff, right? |
|
oppy all along
TI Forumite
Who's been messing up everything? It was oppy all along
Posts: 2,767
|
Post by oppy all along on May 28, 2018 2:57:54 GMT -5
Yes, that bolded sentence is a great point. The film could have told essentially the same story of "Russell isn't a bad kid, but he's had a shitty life, and in the future Cable's come from, he has become a dangerous criminal", without having the single act that sets him down this path being "killing a profoundly evil man who had abused him", because yeah, with the Deadpool franchise, that doesn't work, since Deadpool and friends' whole thing is "brutally killing a whole shitton of criminals without a second thought and making jokes about it". Also, to your point about killing off Morena Baccarin's character, my initial thought was "Well, that's not great, but like, whatever, I guess, because the film makes fun of all sorts of superhero movie tropes and 'Main Character's Girlfriend gets fridged in a sequel'" certainly is a thing in superhero films and action films in general, but, thinking about it after reading your last sentence, Deadpool doesn't really even call this out as a tired and sexist trope via fourth-wall-breaking that much, does he? Also, while we're on the subject of shitty tropes, for a film series that's generally anti-sexual assault and anti-homophobia, it's definitely not great that there's a running "joke" where Deadpool jokingly pretends to be in love with Colossus (or whatever his name is) and is constantly grabbing his ass and stuff, right? "If Russell is allowed to start killing, he'll become... about as bad as all your favourite protagonists! Oh no!" The emotional impetus of the finale is a bit lacking when you could achieve roughly the same effect with Deadpool walking into the school, killing the principal himself, and sending the kid to get some therapy at the X-Mansion. And yeah, that wasn't even recognised as a trope by the writers. They did an interview where their response to the fridging controversy was "... Women in refrigerators? What's that? Is people getting upset when we kill off female characters to motivate character change in male protagonists a thing?" They had no idea they were doing anything worth lampshading with some snappy Deadpool quips. Bingo again on the Deadpool sexually harassing Colossus. But it's funny, because... he's big. And a man. Big tough men don't get victimised. How you going to pull that in a movie where you cast Terry Crews? You deserve so much better Terry. Structurally, another thing for me is that Deadpool 1 is a tight movie where the plot isn't too complicated and nothing is too egregious. There's none of the contradictions about killing because pretty much everyone in the movie is a-ok with gratuitous murder except for lame fuddy duddy Colossus. Yeah, they do the Damsel in Distress thing, but there are some nice flourishes - Vanessa doesn't take any shit, frees herself from the cage, and stabs the bad guy with a sword when he's distracted. She's a damsel with agency. It's just a nice, simple revenge murder romcom which doesn't try to be more than it is. Deadpool 2 trips itself by bringing in time travel, emotional impetus completely at odds with the core concept of the series, way too much time spent on Wade being mopey, and then doing all these things lazily and poorly. Which is how you get logic bombs like "why is the heroic metal man complicit with the structural abuse of mutant children, and violently subdues any challenges to the status quo?" Sorry everyone, this happy thread has now become 'two people who didn't like the movie explain why it's terrible'. Or, 'one person who didn't like the movie and one person who thought it was decent but has some critiques' |
|
|
|
Post by Prole Hole on May 28, 2018 7:01:57 GMT -5
I'll weigh in a little bit here (surprise, right?). But I have to say, I think "And yeah, the tonal disconnect between "haha Domino just killed a room full of people and children are applauding her" and "if Russell kills JUST ONE CHILD ABUSER WHO PERSONALLY VICTIMISED HIM then he will be LOST FOREVER" is ludicrous." is missing the point, because there's no direct comparison between Domino and Russell. I've only seen the film once, so maybe I'm misremembering, but doesn't Cable specifically state that Russell's first act of killing gives him the taste for it and starts him down the path that leads him to criminality? He actively enjoys the killing and it's implicit that, at that point in his development, it could be anyone he killed that would have given him the taste for it. Different people react to killing in different ways, and for Russell his reaction is to enjoy the act and then go on to do more of it - that's his particular situation, whereas Domino's is different, and so her reaction is also different.
(A small sidebar is that Deadpool, of all movies, seems like an odd one to pull up for indiscriminate henchperson splattering. Like it or not, but it's a trope of action movies, where guards gets taken out by the protagonist but there's still space to discuss the ethics of killing elsewhere. Does anyone lose sleep when James Bond takes out a bunch of guards who work for SPECTRE or whatever? He can still do that, and have a discussion about the ethics of assassinations for the state, the two aren't inherently contradictory).
The fridging thing is indeed a tired trope (that seems like an insanely mild way of saying it) and needs to go. Obviously. The plus side is that, should there be a DP3, Morena Baccairn hopefully wont be back. Ideally in anything.
Anyway none of this is a particularly robust defense, I'll fully admit. I just wanted to raise a couple of counterpoints. I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Greene's October Surprise on May 28, 2018 19:26:31 GMT -5
The plus side is that, should there be a DP3, Morena Baccairn hopefully wont be back. Ideally in anything. ...did you miss that they un-fridged her?  She'll be back. |
|
|
|
Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on May 28, 2018 22:35:46 GMT -5
I'll weigh in a little bit here (surprise, right?). But I have to say, I think "And yeah, the tonal disconnect between "haha Domino just killed a room full of people and children are applauding her" and "if Russell kills JUST ONE CHILD ABUSER WHO PERSONALLY VICTIMISED HIM then he will be LOST FOREVER" is ludicrous." is missing the point, because there's no direct comparison between Domino and Russell. I've only seen the film once, so maybe I'm misremembering, but doesn't Cable specifically state that Russell's first act of killing gives him the taste for it and starts him down the path that leads him to criminality? He actively enjoys the killing and it's implicit that, at that point in his development, it could be anyone he killed that would have given him the taste for it. Different people react to killing in different ways, and for Russell his reaction is to enjoy the act and then go on to do more of it - that's his particular situation, whereas Domino's is different, and so her reaction is also different. (A small sidebar is that Deadpool, of all movies, seems like an odd one to pull up for indiscriminate henchperson splattering. Like it or not, but it's a trope of action movies, where guards gets taken out by the protagonist but there's still space to discuss the ethics of killing elsewhere. Does anyone lose sleep when James Bond takes out a bunch of guards who work for SPECTRE or whatever? He can still do that, and have a discussion about the ethics of assassinations for the state, the two aren't inherently contradictory). The fridging thing is indeed a tired trope (that seems like an insanely mild way of saying it) and needs to go. Obviously. The plus side is that, should there be a DP3, Morena Baccairn hopefully wont be back. Ideally in anything.Anyway none of this is a particularly robust defense, I'll fully admit. I just wanted to raise a couple of counterpoints. I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate. What do you have against Baccarin, Prole? It's not her fault that the V reboot sucked. |
|
|
|
Post by Nudeviking on May 28, 2018 23:32:50 GMT -5
And yeah, that wasn't even recognised as a trope by the writers. They did an interview where their response to the fridging controversy was "... Women in refrigerators? What's that? Is people getting upset when we kill off female characters to motivate character change in male protagonists a thing?" They had no idea they were doing anything worth lampshading with some snappy Deadpool quips. Um. Didn't Gail Simone (the woman who coined the "women in refrigerators" term) write for Deadpool (the comic) and actually get name checked in the first movie? Were these movie writers being sarcastic or are they just super dumb? |
|
oppy all along
TI Forumite
Who's been messing up everything? It was oppy all along
Posts: 2,767
|
Post by oppy all along on May 28, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
Um. Didn't Gail Simone (the woman who coined the "women in refrigerators" term) write for Deadpool (the comic) and actually get name checked in the first movie? Were these movie writers being sarcastic or are they just super dumb? Seems more lazy than sarcastic. |
|
|
|
Post by Nudeviking on May 28, 2018 23:56:59 GMT -5
Um. Didn't Gail Simone (the woman who coined the "women in refrigerators" term) write for Deadpool (the comic) and actually get name checked in the first movie? Were these movie writers being sarcastic or are they just super dumb? Seems more lazy than sarcastic. Lousy Fake Geek Boys... |
|
|
|
Post by Prole Hole on May 29, 2018 2:17:18 GMT -5
I'll weigh in a little bit here (surprise, right?). But I have to say, I think "And yeah, the tonal disconnect between "haha Domino just killed a room full of people and children are applauding her" and "if Russell kills JUST ONE CHILD ABUSER WHO PERSONALLY VICTIMISED HIM then he will be LOST FOREVER" is ludicrous." is missing the point, because there's no direct comparison between Domino and Russell. I've only seen the film once, so maybe I'm misremembering, but doesn't Cable specifically state that Russell's first act of killing gives him the taste for it and starts him down the path that leads him to criminality? He actively enjoys the killing and it's implicit that, at that point in his development, it could be anyone he killed that would have given him the taste for it. Different people react to killing in different ways, and for Russell his reaction is to enjoy the act and then go on to do more of it - that's his particular situation, whereas Domino's is different, and so her reaction is also different. (A small sidebar is that Deadpool, of all movies, seems like an odd one to pull up for indiscriminate henchperson splattering. Like it or not, but it's a trope of action movies, where guards gets taken out by the protagonist but there's still space to discuss the ethics of killing elsewhere. Does anyone lose sleep when James Bond takes out a bunch of guards who work for SPECTRE or whatever? He can still do that, and have a discussion about the ethics of assassinations for the state, the two aren't inherently contradictory). The fridging thing is indeed a tired trope (that seems like an insanely mild way of saying it) and needs to go. Obviously. The plus side is that, should there be a DP3, Morena Baccairn hopefully wont be back. Ideally in anything.Anyway none of this is a particularly robust defense, I'll fully admit. I just wanted to raise a couple of counterpoints. I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate. What do you have against Baccarin, Prole? It's not her fault that the V reboot sucked. She's just one of those actors I simply cannot stand to watch, and I don't really have an explanation for it - just about everything I've seen her in I've found her perfectly unbearable. V, Homeland, Gotham, Deadpool... you name it, she sucked in it. It may not be her fault that the whole of the V reboot sucked, but she's part of the vortex of suckage nonetheless. Her least sucky role was likely Firefly and even then she's the weakest of the regular cast. I'm sure she's probably a perfectly lovely individual, and the problem is 100% mine since nobody else seems to dislike her the way I do but still - I just don't like her. |
|
oppy all along
TI Forumite
Who's been messing up everything? It was oppy all along
Posts: 2,767
|
Post by oppy all along on May 29, 2018 4:16:26 GMT -5
I'll weigh in a little bit here (surprise, right?). But I have to say, I think "And yeah, the tonal disconnect between "haha Domino just killed a room full of people and children are applauding her" and "if Russell kills JUST ONE CHILD ABUSER WHO PERSONALLY VICTIMISED HIM then he will be LOST FOREVER" is ludicrous." is missing the point, because there's no direct comparison between Domino and Russell. I've only seen the film once, so maybe I'm misremembering, but doesn't Cable specifically state that Russell's first act of killing gives him the taste for it and starts him down the path that leads him to criminality? He actively enjoys the killing and it's implicit that, at that point in his development, it could be anyone he killed that would have given him the taste for it. Different people react to killing in different ways, and for Russell his reaction is to enjoy the act and then go on to do more of it - that's his particular situation, whereas Domino's is different, and so her reaction is also different. (A small sidebar is that Deadpool, of all movies, seems like an odd one to pull up for indiscriminate henchperson splattering. Like it or not, but it's a trope of action movies, where guards gets taken out by the protagonist but there's still space to discuss the ethics of killing elsewhere. Does anyone lose sleep when James Bond takes out a bunch of guards who work for SPECTRE or whatever? He can still do that, and have a discussion about the ethics of assassinations for the state, the two aren't inherently contradictory). The fridging thing is indeed a tired trope (that seems like an insanely mild way of saying it) and needs to go. Obviously. The plus side is that, should there be a DP3, Morena Baccairn hopefully wont be back. Ideally in anything. Anyway none of this is a particularly robust defense, I'll fully admit. I just wanted to raise a couple of counterpoints. I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate. To your first point, I feel this is an issue more with tone than logic. If you stop to think about it, yes, it makes some sense that while Deadpool, Domino, Cable, the taxi driver, and various other side characters are sociopathic mass-murderers, the very powerful teenage mutant with anger issues and the potential to become a serial killer who kills defenceless families for the hell of it maybe shouldn't join their ranks in murder. This is not clearly communicated to the audience in the conclusion to the movie. You have an awesome action montage where, concurrently; Deadpool and Cable are mowing down largely defenceless institution staff in droves and it's awesome, Domino is mowing down largely defenceless institution staff in droves to applause and it's awesome, Colossus is kicking Juggernaut in the balls and it's awesome, and Russell is burning down hallways chasing down the man who hurt him and it's... terrible and must be stopped. If you stop to think it through the logic can make some kind of sense, but in that moment the audience isn't thinking, they're feeling. I don't think it was the intended audience response but I was absolutely cheering for Russell to kill the guy. And it makes the emotional climax of the movie where all the characters are pleading with Russell to please not kill the guy seem completely off-message. Again, I'll compare this to Deadpool. In the first movie, the emotional impetus of the climax is love. There's some revenge in there, but Deadpool's and the audience's primary emotional investment is save the damsel in distress. And everything in the conclusion is tonally and logically in service to 'awesome revenge rescue climax'. In the sequel, the emotional impetus of the climax is Russell's soul, and how it will be irrevocably altered by the act of revenge murder. And everything else in the conclusion is tonally and logically in service to 'revenge murder is awesome look how much fun they're all having'. It's very jarring and leads to a conclusion which, for me at least, does not land at all. And Deadpool is pulled up for indiscriminate henchperson splattering ahead of other action movies because of tone and intent. With James Bond, any henchperson killing is seen as a necessary act in service of James Bond achieving his ultimate goal of furthering the interests of the British Secret Service. With Deadpool, henchperson killing is gloriously and excessively violent mayhem. It's an end to itself. Deadpool kills henchpeople because it looks awesome, it's a good time for everyone, and we all cheer when he stabs/shoots some henchperson in a needlessly spectacular and gruesome fashion. This is what makes the conversation about the ethics and seriousness of taking a life... counter-intuitive. Also, your baseless and egregious shot at the wonderful Morena Baccarin have been noted and filed. |
|
|
|
Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on May 29, 2018 20:44:05 GMT -5
Um. Didn't Gail Simone (the woman who coined the "women in refrigerators" term) write for Deadpool (the comic) and actually get name checked in the first movie? Were these movie writers being sarcastic or are they just super dumb? Seems more lazy than sarcastic. The fact that the writers didn't even know what fridging is underscores one of my main issues with the writing in the Deadpool films, which is that the writers don't seem to have a deep enough familiarity with the tropes that they're lampooning to actually mock them in original, non-hacky ways. It's like they'd each seen most of the major superhero films of the past 20 years or so, and they'd skimmed the relevant Deadpool and Cable comics or whatever arc of Deadpool they're basing this film off of, and then just vomited out the script in an afternoon, then spent another afternoon editing it to make the dialogue snappier, and that's it. But, like, they can't even do that competently. Like, if they really felt the need to kill Baccarin off, it wouldn't have been that hard to make some hacky references to fridging that were tonally consistent with the franchise's hacky comedic aesthetic. Like, here: [Guy Who Murders Morena Baccarin and Deadpool are fighting in the Deadpool-Baccarin apartment. The two of them and Baccarin end up in the Deadpool-Baccarin kitchen. Baccarin backs up against the refrigerator. Guy Who Murders Baccarin throws a table or something at Deadpool, who ducks. The table or whatever hits the refrigerator, which somehow topples over in slow motion onto Baccarin, who is crushed by it and dies. Deadpool screams "Nooooo!!!!!" in a hacky parody of the trope of the male protagonist of a film watching their wife murdered in front of them in slow motion. Freeze frame.] Deadpool's Fourth Wall Breaking Monologue: Talk about being fridged. That's right, [Borat voice] mai waife (see what I did there) just got crushed to death by a refrigerator. It seems kind of contrived because it didn't really make sense how that table knocked over our fridge in the first place, and worst of all, the ironic symbolism of the moment was just absurdly on-the-nose. I mean, it's not even clever that I'm explicitly mentioning how lazy and hacky this reference to fridging is, and I'm not even sure if it's clever that I'm explicitly acknowledging the fact that it's not even clever to talk about lazy and hacky it is, or if acknowledging the fact that I'm acknowledging this is. Is there a point at which these sort of recursive fourth-wall-breaking hacky jokes about hacky jokes stop being hacky and start being funny and clever, or am I just using this sort of ironic detachment to the situation to delay myself from feeling any sort of genuine human emotion about my wife's tragic death? [Cut to Deadpool reading the script to Deadpool 2]: My God, these writers have been reading too much David Foster Wallace. Although I guess it's fitting that the white male hipster writers who just fridged the female co-star fifteen minutes into the film would write in a jerk-off session to the God of White Male Hipster Writers. And scene. See, was that so hard, Ryan Reynolds and Whatever Those Other Writers' Names Were? That scene I just wrote had references to the fact that tropes just happened, "ironic" jokes about how lazy the writing was, references to masturbation that managed to be vaguely homophobic, and everything! |
|
She'll be back. 