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Post by Desert Dweller on May 13, 2022 0:07:05 GMT -5
I watched SNW again. Still really loved it. However, I noticed a quite egregious science error. This will now bother me forever. Aaaaah! This episode posits that this planet "saw" the battle at the end of DSC Season 2, then reverse engineered and built an matter/antimatter device. Number One says the planet is "less than a light year" from the battle site. Spock tells Pike it has been 3 months since the battle. Spot the science error yet? It's okay, they're using the JJ Abrams Detector, where anything that happens anywhere in the galaxy can be seen immediately with the naked eye! *sighs, mutters* I'll assume they sent out space probes or something.
Even if they sent out space probes, it would take time to get the information back from the probe. Still dealing with the same speed of light error. Uhura said there was no subspace communication around this planet. They had less space infrastructure than Earth does now. Not to mention that it is absurd to think a civilization that has never even been introduced to the concept of a matter/anitmatter device could reverse engineer and build one in THREE MONTHS. And, ugh, I HATED that aspect of JJ Abrams Star Wars where people could look up and see stuff happening in different star systems. Ugh, so, so, so, so bad.
Look, sci fi writers and directors, it is fine if you want to make up a future technology and not explain how it works. I have never complained about the Star Trek transporters. They have "compensators" and that is all I need. Trek has never really explained what "subspace" is, and that is also fine. They have ships that travel FTL, so why not communications, too? Fine, whatever. The less you say about this stuff, the better.
But you really cannot mess with basic physics such as interstellar distance and the speed of light while also saying the planet has no subspace communications. Subspace is the Trek method for getting around speed of light information transmission issues.
Anyway I watched SNW episode 2 tonight, though I watched it while cooking, so I definitely missed some stuff. I can report that they didn't mess up any of the music information, such as harmonics and pitch frequencies. And Spock is right that it is all mathematically derived. I took at least one music theory course which was essentially a math course. I was mildly impressed they actually got the harmonic series correct, considering the massive speed of light error in the first episode. You'd figure more people would understand speed of light than would understand the harmonic series. But oh well. I did not catch enough of the info about what Spock was doing to move the comet to know if they screwed up the science on that.
My general impression was that I liked this one. I continue to absolutely love Anson Mount as Pike. Really like Celia Rose Gooding's performance as Uhura in this episode. I liked the opening dinner scene. Also, my deepest thanks to the writers for not having Pike make some inane comment at the end about the comet is similar to him.
My one initial con for this episode is that it is kind of silly to put Sam Kirk's life in danger. No one has told us this is an alternate timeline. So, we all know he isn't going to die in this episode. But, hey. Feel free to make this an alternate timeline, Trek writers, so that maybe Captain Pike really can avoid that gruesome fate.
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ABz B👹anaz
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Post by ABz B👹anaz on May 13, 2022 1:18:26 GMT -5
It's okay, they're using the JJ Abrams Detector, where anything that happens anywhere in the galaxy can be seen immediately with the naked eye! *sighs, mutters* I'll assume they sent out space probes or something.
Even if they sent out space probes, it would take time to get the information back from the probe. Still dealing with the same speed of light error. Uhura said there was no subspace communication around this planet. They had less space infrastructure than Earth does now. Not to mention that it is absurd to think a civilization that has never even been introduced to the concept of a matter/anitmatter device could reverse engineer and build one in THREE MONTHS. And, ugh, I HATED that aspect of JJ Abrams Star Wars where people could look up and see stuff happening in different star systems. Ugh, so, so, so, so bad.
Look, sci fi writers and directors, it is fine if you want to make up a future technology and not explain how it works. I have never complained about the Star Trek transporters. They have "compensators" and that is all I need. Trek has never really explained what "subspace" is, and that is also fine. They have ships that travel FTL, so why not communications, too? Fine, whatever. The less you say about this stuff, the better.
But you really cannot mess with basic physics such as interstellar distance and the speed of light while also saying the planet has no subspace communications. Subspace is the Trek method for getting around speed of light information transmission issues.
Anyway I watched SNW episode 2 tonight, though I watched it while cooking, so I definitely missed some stuff. I can report that they didn't mess up any of the music information, such as harmonics and pitch frequencies. And Spock is right that it is all mathematically derived. I took at least one music theory course which was essentially a math course. I was mildly impressed they actually got the harmonic series correct, considering the massive speed of light error in the first episode. You'd figure more people would understand speed of light than would understand the harmonic series. But oh well. I did not catch enough of the info about what Spock was doing to move the comment to know if they screwed up the science on that.
My general impression was that I liked this one. I continue to absolutely love Anson Mount as Pike. Really like Celia Rose Gooding's performance as Uhura in this episode. I liked the opening dinner scene. Also, my deepest thanks to the writers for not having Pike make some inane comment at the end about the comet is similar to him.
My one initial con for this episode is that it is kind of silly to put Sam Kirk's life in danger. No one has told us this is an alternate timeline. So, we all know he isn't going to die in this episode. But, hey. Feel free to make this an alternate timeline, Trek writers, so that maybe Captain Pike really can avoid that gruesome fate.
Just to be clear, I didn't go into detail here because I was just making a joke, but I screamed about JJ Abrams' shitty lack of knowledge about interstellar distances for YEARS after he fucked them up in both Star Trek and Star Wars:The Force Awakens. Both fucking movies had people observing planets exploding in the sky where the size of the explosions would have had to be in the same solar system, but the planets the observing characters were on were not. SO! FUCKING! STUPID! HOW BIG IS MARS IN OUR VIEW, ABRAMS?! THAT'S RIGHT, BARELY BIGGER THAN A STAR TO THE NAKED EYE! WHY THE ABSOLUTE FUCKING SHIT DO YOU THINK ANYONE WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE A PLANET EXPLODING IN REAL TIME FROM ANYWHERE FURTHER AWAY THAN THAT?! EVEN A NEIGHBORING SOLAR SYSTEM WOULD BE LIGHT YEARS AWAY YOU UTTER DIPSHIT! LIGHT YEARS! THAT MEANS LIGHT TAKES YEARS TO TRAVEL THERE! Anyway...yeah. I handwaved the society thing in that episode for now because otherwise I really enjoyed it, but I hope they don't keep making Abrams-level mistakes. |
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Post by sarapen on May 13, 2022 10:26:01 GMT -5
Finally watched Strange New Worlds episode 1, I liked it way more than Discovery. I really hope they don't push the Discovery connections because I quit that show before the end of the Spock's angel arc so I'd be out to sea.
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Post by Ben Grimm on May 13, 2022 16:34:20 GMT -5
Finally watched Strange New Worlds episode 1, I liked it way more than Discovery. I really hope they don't push the Discovery connections because I quit that show before the end of the Spock's angel arc so I'd be out to sea. So far, just some connective tissue that would be conspicuous in its absence, and can be ignored if you don't know the context. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on May 13, 2022 22:48:00 GMT -5
Even if they sent out space probes, it would take time to get the information back from the probe. Still dealing with the same speed of light error. Uhura said there was no subspace communication around this planet. They had less space infrastructure than Earth does now. Not to mention that it is absurd to think a civilization that has never even been introduced to the concept of a matter/anitmatter device could reverse engineer and build one in THREE MONTHS. And, ugh, I HATED that aspect of JJ Abrams Star Wars where people could look up and see stuff happening in different star systems. Ugh, so, so, so, so bad.
Just to be clear, I didn't go into detail here because I was just making a joke, but I screamed about JJ Abrams' shitty lack of knowledge about interstellar distances for YEARS after he fucked them up in both Star Trek and Star Wars:The Force Awakens. Both fucking movies had people observing planets exploding in the sky where the size of the explosions would have had to be in the same solar system, but the planets the observing characters were on were not. SO! FUCKING! STUPID! HOW BIG IS MARS IN OUR VIEW, ABRAMS?! THAT'S RIGHT, BARELY BIGGER THAN A STAR TO THE NAKED EYE! WHY THE ABSOLUTE FUCKING SHIT DO YOU THINK ANYONE WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE A PLANET EXPLODING IN REAL TIME FROM ANYWHERE FURTHER AWAY THAN THAT?! EVEN A NEIGHBORING SOLAR SYSTEM WOULD BE LIGHT YEARS AWAY YOU UTTER DIPSHIT! LIGHT YEARS! THAT MEANS LIGHT TAKES YEARS TO TRAVEL THERE! Anyway...yeah. I handwaved the society thing in that episode for now because otherwise I really enjoyed it, but I hope they don't keep making Abrams-level mistakes. Yeah, I think Proxima Centauri is something like 4 light-years away. We wouldn't see anything from that star system, except maybe their star going supernova. And that would take YEARS until we saw it.
And yeah, I screamed about the speed of light issues in JJ Abrams Trek and Star Wars movies. It was so bad. Horribly bad. Of course, JJ also had a character beam from Earth straight into the Klingon Empire. And a Tribble with magic blood. And a Romulan *mining* ship that somehow had more weapons than actual warships. Regardless of what century they are from, a mining ship shouldn't outgun a warship. And they apparently replenished these weapons. Amazing. I didn't like JJ Trek at all.
But yeah, I really enjoyed Episode 1, despite this. I am excited about this show. I just hope they don't continue to make basic science errors. I was happy they at least got the pitch frequencies and harmonic series correct in Episode 2. And explained how it was basically math. That was nice. Still need to rewatch the ending for the whole part about Spock and the comet.
Here's my question about Episode 2. Since they built up this whole thing about Uhura being able to communicate with the comet through music, why didn't she just ask it to move through the musical language? Why did we need Spock to come in and do something completely different?
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Post by Ben Grimm on May 14, 2022 12:34:29 GMT -5
Just to be clear, I didn't go into detail here because I was just making a joke, but I screamed about JJ Abrams' shitty lack of knowledge about interstellar distances for YEARS after he fucked them up in both Star Trek and Star Wars:The Force Awakens. Both fucking movies had people observing planets exploding in the sky where the size of the explosions would have had to be in the same solar system, but the planets the observing characters were on were not. SO! FUCKING! STUPID! HOW BIG IS MARS IN OUR VIEW, ABRAMS?! THAT'S RIGHT, BARELY BIGGER THAN A STAR TO THE NAKED EYE! WHY THE ABSOLUTE FUCKING SHIT DO YOU THINK ANYONE WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE A PLANET EXPLODING IN REAL TIME FROM ANYWHERE FURTHER AWAY THAN THAT?! EVEN A NEIGHBORING SOLAR SYSTEM WOULD BE LIGHT YEARS AWAY YOU UTTER DIPSHIT! LIGHT YEARS! THAT MEANS LIGHT TAKES YEARS TO TRAVEL THERE! Anyway...yeah. I handwaved the society thing in that episode for now because otherwise I really enjoyed it, but I hope they don't keep making Abrams-level mistakes. Yeah, I think Proxima Centauri is something like 4 light-years away. We wouldn't see anything from that star system, except maybe their star going supernova. And that would take YEARS until we saw it.
And yeah, I screamed about the speed of light issues in JJ Abrams Trek and Star Wars movies. It was so bad. Horribly bad. Of course, JJ also had a character beam from Earth straight into the Klingon Empire. And a Tribble with magic blood. And a Romulan *mining* ship that somehow had more weapons than actual warships. Regardless of what century they are from, a mining ship shouldn't outgun a warship. And they apparently replenished these weapons. Amazing. I didn't like JJ Trek at all.
But yeah, I really enjoyed Episode 1, despite this. I am excited about this show. I just hope they don't continue to make basic science errors. I was happy they at least got the pitch frequencies and harmonic series correct in Episode 2. And explained how it was basically math. That was nice. Still need to rewatch the ending for the whole part about Spock and the comet.
Here's my question about Episode 2. Since they built up this whole thing about Uhura being able to communicate with the comet through music, why didn't she just ask it to move through the musical language? Why did we need Spock to come in and do something completely different?
I think she figured out just enough to communicate enough with it to do what she did the first time - she didn't really have time to decode the whole language in the brief time that the crisis was ongoing. The more full translation she did was some undisclosed amount of time later, plus she had full access to the ship's computer. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on May 14, 2022 15:11:26 GMT -5
Here's my question about Episode 2. Since they built up this whole thing about Uhura being able to communicate with the comet through music, why didn't she just ask it to move through the musical language? Why did we need Spock to come in and do something completely different?
I think she figured out just enough to communicate enough with it to do what she did the first time - she didn't really have time to decode the whole language in the brief time that the crisis was ongoing. The more full translation she did was some undisclosed amount of time later, plus she had full access to the ship's computer.
I'm asking about the storytelling structure. Why did the episode spend so much time on Uhura deciphering this language and being able to communicate, only for her to not be the one to solve the problem at the end? Why was the episode about Uhura but Spock is the one who saved the day? That is a strange storytelling choice.
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Post by Ben Grimm on May 14, 2022 15:22:21 GMT -5
I think she figured out just enough to communicate enough with it to do what she did the first time - she didn't really have time to decode the whole language in the brief time that the crisis was ongoing. The more full translation she did was some undisclosed amount of time later, plus she had full access to the ship's computer.
I'm asking about the storytelling structure. Why did the episode spend so much time on Uhura deciphering this language and being able to communicate, only for her to not be the one to solve the problem at the end? Why was the episode about Uhura but Spock is the one who saved the day? That is a strange storytelling choice.
Uhura kind of did save the day, though - if she hadn't figured out the language and gotten them off the comet, Spock wouldn't have been able to do his shuttle maneuver. Plus it felt to me like Spock didn't save the day so much as the crew at the whole saved the day. Spock piloted the shuttle, but he was a cog in the overall plan. |
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ABz B👹anaz
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Post by ABz B👹anaz on May 19, 2022 10:52:28 GMT -5
I convinced my wife and daughter to watch the first episode with me to see if they wanted to keep watching the show with me. They both liked it (though BGirl's attention was wavering for the last 15 minutes) and want to keep watching, so we'll hopefully get to the 2nd and 3rd episodes by this weekend.
Mrs B made a comment about the scene where they were getting the genome editing disguises. "Wait, why did HER transformation start immediately when the other two guys didn't? Come on, show, get it right!" So I made sure to point out the "light year away" telescope and timeframe error later in the show. But again, even on rewatch, despite minor issues I loved it.
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Post by Prole Hole on May 19, 2022 15:24:19 GMT -5
I convinced my wife and daughter to watch the first episode with me to see if they wanted to keep watching the show with me. They both liked it (though BGirl's attention was wavering for the last 15 minutes) and want to keep watching, so we'll hopefully get to the 2nd and 3rd episodes by this weekend. Mrs B made a comment about the scene where they were getting the genome editing disguises. "Wait, why did HER transformation start immediately when the other two guys didn't? Come on, show, get it right!" So I made sure to point out the "light year away" telescope and timeframe error later in the show. But again, even on rewatch, despite minor issues I loved it. Enjoyed third episode very much as well - a very traditional Star Trek but still great. (Sorry, everyone, I haven't gotten round to writing up Ep 2 yet, I will!) |
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Post by Desert Dweller on May 22, 2022 21:54:38 GMT -5
Just watched episode 3 of SNW. I'd been in rehearsals and concerts all week and I maybe forgot this was on? Anyway, I just watched it. Still liked it, but it wasn't as good as the first two.
Edited to add: I'm not really sure where SNW thinks it is going to go with this whole genetic engineering angle. Again, this isn't an alternate timeline, right? So, we know there is still a Federation ban on genetic engineering 100 years later. And I am not sure Trek is equipped as a sci-fi franchise to really deal with genetic engineering as a topic. The most we've seen of genetic engineering in Trek isn't through Khan. It is with the Dominion in DS9. And that was also all bad.
I did like that this episode did at least present a new argument for genetic engineering that we haven't had voiced in Trek yet. But again, we already know this isn't going anywhere.
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Post by Prole Hole on May 24, 2022 6:28:50 GMT -5
Just watched episode 3 of SNW. I'd been in rehearsals and concerts all week and I maybe forgot this was on? Anyway, I just watched it. Still liked it, but it wasn't as good as the first two.
Edited to add: I'm not really sure where SNW thinks it is going to go with this whole genetic engineering angle. Again, this isn't an alternate timeline, right? So, we know there is still a Federation ban on genetic engineering 100 years later. And I am not sure Trek is equipped as a sci-fi franchise to really deal with genetic engineering as a topic. The most we've seen of genetic engineering in Trek isn't through Khan. It is with the Dominion in DS9. And that was also all bad.
I did like that this episode did at least present a new argument for genetic engineering that we haven't had voiced in Trek yet. But again, we already know this isn't going anywhere.
I think they're just politely ignoring / retconning (delete as appropriate) anything that's come before as far as genetic engineering is concerned, but no, SNW is not an alternate timeline ( Picard did something similar with Adam Soong pulling out a file marked "Khan" in 2024 despite the fact we know those events took place in the 90s. Or maybe timey-wimey. That show doesn't have any interest in explaining details to us so it's hard to care one way or the other). I wouldn't say Star Trek is ill-equipped to deal with genetic engineering, necessarily, it's just that their attempts to do so have been generally poor. I didn't get into this in my Episode 3 review, but how far does that ban go? Can, say, genetically modified tomatoes that can grow in harsher climates never be used? Would a species be forbidden from joining the Federation because they grew some? Is it just people? Despite Khan, it's all very anti-science and pro-fear, which isn't usually Trek's modus operandi at all. The problem is the term "genetic engineering" is just too wide, and it's not one that works as a stand-in or metaphor for prejudice because it's simultaneously too vague and too specific. "I don't like you because the left hand side of my face is white and the left hand side of your face is black" is a clear, easy-to-understand metaphor for racism. "You're different from us by design so we won't let you play in our sandpit, but only because we passed an arbitrary law which doesn't seem to connect to anything (but maybe DRAMA?), and nobody in-universe or the writers seem to have any idea of the implications of this so hand-wave" isn't. |
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Post by Ben Grimm on May 24, 2022 10:03:04 GMT -5
Just watched episode 3 of SNW. I'd been in rehearsals and concerts all week and I maybe forgot this was on? Anyway, I just watched it. Still liked it, but it wasn't as good as the first two.
Edited to add: I'm not really sure where SNW thinks it is going to go with this whole genetic engineering angle. Again, this isn't an alternate timeline, right? So, we know there is still a Federation ban on genetic engineering 100 years later. And I am not sure Trek is equipped as a sci-fi franchise to really deal with genetic engineering as a topic. The most we've seen of genetic engineering in Trek isn't through Khan. It is with the Dominion in DS9. And that was also all bad.
I did like that this episode did at least present a new argument for genetic engineering that we haven't had voiced in Trek yet. But again, we already know this isn't going anywhere. I think they're just politely ignoring / retconning (delete as appropriate) anything that's come before as far as genetic engineering is concerned, but no, SNW is not an alternate timeline ( Picard did something similar with Adam Soong pulling out a file marked "Khan" in 2024 despite the fact we know those events took place in the 90s. Or maybe timey-wimey. That show doesn't have any interest in explaining details to us so it's hard to care one way or the other). I can't remember when exactly it was (it may have even been on this season of Picard), but at some point there was some line about how the records prior to WWIII are really spotty and inexact and I think that was their attempt to try and reconcile the established Star Trek timeline of the current era with the reality of the current era. |
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Post by Prole Hole on May 24, 2022 10:06:58 GMT -5
I think they're just politely ignoring / retconning (delete as appropriate) anything that's come before as far as genetic engineering is concerned, but no, SNW is not an alternate timeline ( Picard did something similar with Adam Soong pulling out a file marked "Khan" in 2024 despite the fact we know those events took place in the 90s. Or maybe timey-wimey. That show doesn't have any interest in explaining details to us so it's hard to care one way or the other). I can't remember when exactly it was (it may have even been on this season of Picard), but at some point there was some line about how the records prior to WWIII are really spotty and inexact and I think that was their attempt to try and reconcile the established Star Trek timeline of the current era with the reality of the current era. I have a feeling there's a line about that in First Contact, but it's definitely a retcon - Space Seed is unambiguous about the date. It's one of those things I both get and don't get - obviously we didn't have a eugenics war in the 90s so there's a desire to recton, but on the other hand it's fine to admit Star Trek doesn't exist in "our" universe so in there's sure, there was one in the 90s. It's a weird tension. |
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Post by Ben Grimm on May 24, 2022 10:13:03 GMT -5
I can't remember when exactly it was (it may have even been on this season of Picard), but at some point there was some line about how the records prior to WWIII are really spotty and inexact and I think that was their attempt to try and reconcile the established Star Trek timeline of the current era with the reality of the current era. I have a feeling there's a line about that in First Contact, but it's definitely a retcon - Space Seed is unambiguous about the date. It's one of those things I both get and don't get - obviously we didn't have a eugenics war in the 90s so there's a desire to recton, but on the other hand it's fine to admit Star Trek doesn't exist in "our" universe so in there's sure, there was one in the 90s. It's a weird tension. Yeah, considering the Europa mission plot this season of Picard, I think they just have to embrace that their timeline isn't really our future anymore. That said, it was weird to have an actor in his mid-to-late 40s playing a character that was going to be the subject of a eugenics experiment about 25 years after the episode was filmed. Unless there was some sort of fast-growing clone process, Khan would have been about 20 when Space Seed first aired. The original timeline never made a ton of sense internally. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on May 24, 2022 16:59:38 GMT -5
Edited to add: I'm not really sure where SNW thinks it is going to go with this whole genetic engineering angle. Again, this isn't an alternate timeline, right? So, we know there is still a Federation ban on genetic engineering 100 years later. And I am not sure Trek is equipped as a sci-fi franchise to really deal with genetic engineering as a topic. The most we've seen of genetic engineering in Trek isn't through Khan. It is with the Dominion in DS9. And that was also all bad.
I did like that this episode did at least present a new argument for genetic engineering that we haven't had voiced in Trek yet. But again, we already know this isn't going anywhere.
I think they're just politely ignoring / retconning (delete as appropriate) anything that's come before as far as genetic engineering is concerned, but no, SNW is not an alternate timeline ( Picard did something similar with Adam Soong pulling out a file marked "Khan" in 2024 despite the fact we know those events took place in the 90s. Or maybe timey-wimey. That show doesn't have any interest in explaining details to us so it's hard to care one way or the other). I wouldn't say Star Trek is ill-equipped to deal with genetic engineering, necessarily, it's just that their attempts to do so have been generally poor. I didn't get into this in my Episode 3 review, but how far does that ban go? Can, say, genetically modified tomatoes that can grow in harsher climates never be used? Would a species be forbidden from joining the Federation because they grew some? Is it just people? Despite Khan, it's all very anti-science and pro-fear, which isn't usually Trek's modus operandi at all. The problem is the term "genetic engineering" is just too wide, and it's not one that works as a stand-in or metaphor for prejudice because it's simultaneously too vague and too specific. "I don't like you because the left hand side of my face is white and the left hand side of your face is black" is a clear, easy-to-understand metaphor for racism. "You're different from us by design so we won't let you play in our sandpit, but only because we passed an arbitrary law which doesn't seem to connect to anything (but maybe DRAMA?), and nobody in-universe or the writers seem to have any idea of the implications of this so hand-wave" isn't.
It's also weird because in Episode 1 of SNW we see that the Federation/Starfleet has no problem with temporarily altering a crew member's DNA in order to make them look like an alien. It seems like the Federation is also fine with using gene therapy as a medical treatment. So, yeah, what are the specifics of this ban?
But my point about Trek being ill-equipped is that if it were to introduce large scale genetic engineering it would have to deal with society-wide ramifications of that. A show about a starship that flies from planet to planet, seeing new things every week isn't really the kind of show where you could delve into what real genetic engineering could do.
And it isn't just that the Federation has a ban. We don't see the Romulans, Klingons or Cardassians engaging in any of this at a notable scale, and we haven't heard of the Ferengi selling/arranging specialized services, etc. It just doesn't seem like ANYONE in Trek is doing this. Except the Dominion, who are in a different quadrant, and the Illyrians, who are apparently shunned.
I think those of us who read sci-fi know what a huge concept this is, and what kinds of things it can do in a sci-fi story. It almost feels like it is too late for Trek to introduce this in any meaningful way.
Maybe if it weren't a prequel I could buy it. It could just be that since I watched TNG/DS9/VOY, I know that this issue doesn't develop into anything interesting.
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Post by Desert Dweller on May 24, 2022 17:05:35 GMT -5
I can't remember when exactly it was (it may have even been on this season of Picard), but at some point there was some line about how the records prior to WWIII are really spotty and inexact and I think that was their attempt to try and reconcile the established Star Trek timeline of the current era with the reality of the current era. I have a feeling there's a line about that in First Contact, but it's definitely a retcon - Space Seed is unambiguous about the date. It's one of those things I both get and don't get - obviously we didn't have a eugenics war in the 90s so there's a desire to recton, but on the other hand it's fine to admit Star Trek doesn't exist in "our" universe so in there's sure, there was one in the 90s. It's a weird tension.
Yeah, I remember Space Seed placing it in the 90s. But I also recall some later Trek attempting to push the date of this back into the early 2000s. I am pretty sure that everything post-TNG has pushed the date back.
I loved how Pike in the first episode just elided all these muddy Earth problems into one big thing. You know, it was a little of this, a little of that, and eventually just became WWIII. Kind of making it sound like different conflicts started at different times around Earth but they all just melded into one giant war later. This is a clever attempt to hand wave the conflicting timelines.
And there is definitely a line earlier in Trek about the spotty, inexact records prior to WWIII. I mean earlier than ST:PIC. Yeah, it may be in First Contact, or some other 90s-era Trek.
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Post by Ben Grimm on May 26, 2022 18:17:47 GMT -5
Fantastic Balance of Terror-inspired episode, there. Hemmer is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters on the show.
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Post by Desert Dweller on May 26, 2022 22:52:24 GMT -5
Fantastic Balance of Terror-inspired episode, there. Hemmer is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters on the show.
Gotta love Trek doing a good old fashioned submarine episode! I definitely felt the "Balance of Terror" homage. Shades of DS9's "Starship Down" also thrown in there.
And yes, I am really liking Hemmer so far. I hope we get to learn more about him soon.
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Post by Prole Hole on May 27, 2022 12:48:10 GMT -5
SNW review is up - I'm trying to get them done a bit closer to transmission time.
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Post by sarapen on May 29, 2022 16:55:58 GMT -5
Man, seven people in Starfleet died in a border skirmish against a foreign power that the Federation technically isn't even at war with. I guess it's like when those 300 Indian and Chinese soldiers beat each other to death in that isolated mountain pass 2 years ago. But the Gorn, the Klingons, the Romulans, the Cardassians, the Breen, the Ferengi initially - the Federation seems to keep pissing off its neighbours.
Also, the ergonomics on the Enterprise is kind of terrible. Leaning over every time to peek into the scanning goggles would probably be bad for the science officer's back. And it's got to suck for the helm officer to be flying a starship on a touchpad.
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Post by Desert Dweller on May 29, 2022 21:13:18 GMT -5
Man, seven people in Starfleet died in a border skirmish against a foreign power that the Federation technically isn't even at war with. I guess it's like when those 300 Indian and Chinese soldiers beat each other to death in that isolated mountain pass 2 years ago. But the Gorn, the Klingons, the Romulans, the Cardassians, the Breen, the Ferengi initially - the Federation seems to keep pissing off its neighbours. Technically, I think the Ferengi and Breen are not actually neighbors of the Federation. As in, they don't have borders that touch. The Breen, I believe, are supposed to be on the far side of Cardassian territory. I'm not sure when contact was made between the Cardassians and Federation, and I'm not sure when their military conflict took place. (Went to check on this and it is in fact unknown.) So I have no idea if the Federation borders extended that far when this started. I have no idea where Gorn territory is supposed to be.
In any case, I am not sure we can make any argument that it was Federation action towards the Breen and Ferengi that prompted any hostility. And I don't think we know enough about the Cardassian or Gorn history to make any determination there.
Additionally, in ENT it is shown that the Romulans instigated the attacks on Earth, Vulcan, Andoria and Tellar due to the mere possibility of them forming an alliance. There wasn't even a Federation then, and those 4 planets were not bordering Romulan space.
So, it looks to me like these other aliens are going out of their way to attack the Federation, when it is not a border dispute at all. It seems to be the mere existence of the Federation that is pissing them off.
I don't understand why they gave SNW Uhura a much more useful earpiece than TOS Uhura had, but they still make Spock lean over to look through those silly goggles.
It was very weird to see Ortegas struggle to gain velocity when trying to fly the ship on a touchpad. What is creating the resistance to her touch there? Very strange.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jun 2, 2022 17:59:19 GMT -5
I'm not surprised to know that they can do comedy well, but I'm still happy to see it in action.
Hijinks.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jun 3, 2022 0:37:37 GMT -5
Episode 5 of SNW was silly and I quite enjoyed it. I love the idea of centering the silly comedy episode on the Vulcan characters. Ethan Peck demonstrates that he is really great as Spock. Loved the callback to the music from "Amok Time"! I loved the moment when T'Pring realized she didn't understand why Spock was so devoted to Starfleet.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jun 10, 2022 1:39:37 GMT -5
No, SNW, this was not a good episode. For possibly the first time ever I was missing Captain Kirk. I needed him to come destroy this machine running this planet, talk it to death and leave this society in ruins. Or for Captain Picard to find out wtf this all was and fix it. Question: Is there poverty in the Federation during this time frame? A hundred years later the answer seems to be no. But Pike didn't fight back when this creepy woman brought this up. Do they have replicators in this time frame?
Edited to add: Honestly can't believe this episode was fine with giving no answers. You spend the ENTIRE EPISODE asking "What is happening? Why is all this happening? WHAT IS GOING ON?" Writers: We don't know. There's a machine. We don't know why. That's it. Wow, writers. Wow.
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Post by Prole Hole on Jun 10, 2022 4:32:31 GMT -5
Sorry everyone I'm running behind on my reviews again. Quick summary - didn't care much for last week's comedy episode (or more accurately, I didn't care much for the Spock material, which I found laboured and obvious even as both actors sold the Worst Premise In Sci-Fi very well). Mostly just lazy and rather pandering, if not actively bad. This episode had the shape of a proper classic Star Trek episode, right down to girl-in-every-port cliches and Pike getting laid, then it all falls apart. Desert Dweller isn't wrong, though if one is feeling generous maybe this will be a planet we return to so we can explore more of what's going on but "We don't know what it does, we don't know why it was designed this way" is limp handwaving at best (it's fine to have old tech the use or origin of which has fallen to history but that needs to be the focus of the episode, not a tossed off excuse). The problem with the whole "poverty" angle at the end is that it's got nothing to do with Star Trek and everything to do with the writer thinking they're smart but then not actually being that. "We knowingly torture a child" isn't morally equivalent to "we haven't yet resolved all poverty everywhere" but Pike can't make that argument because the writer thinks they're being terribly clever in trying to make the audience go, "ohhh good point!" rather than Pike being left standing there looking like a twat. The same thing happened to the Doctor when Davros was taunting him in "Journey's End" - "you turned your companions into weapons so you are as bad as me" says the man literally extinguishing the entirety of creation and countless quadrillion lives, but the Doctor can't respond because this is meant to be Some Big Moral Point, whereas it's actually shit writing that hasn't been thought through. Nice to see a planet that has domes and stone buildings and grass rather than the usual collection of corridors though. It did actually feel like a place, despite the script's shortcomings. |
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jun 10, 2022 9:16:45 GMT -5
This episode was pretty much a straight adaptation of Ursula LeGuin's short story "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas," one of my wife's favorites, which Discovery had adapted more clunkily in season 3. I hope her estate is getting a check.
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Post by Prole Hole on Jun 10, 2022 12:37:20 GMT -5
This episode was pretty much a straight adaptation of Ursula LeGuin's short story "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas," one of my wife's favorites, which Discovery had adapted more clunkily in season 3. I hope her estate is getting a check. I'll check on that and get back to you. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jun 10, 2022 23:18:08 GMT -5
This episode had the shape of a proper classic Star Trek episode, right down to girl-in-every-port cliches and Pike getting laid, then it all falls apart. Desert Dweller isn't wrong, though if one is feeling generous maybe this will be a planet we return to so we can explore more of what's going on but "We don't know what it does, we don't know why it was designed this way" is limp handwaving at best (it's fine to have old tech the use or origin of which has fallen to history but that needs to be the focus of the episode, not a tossed off excuse).
I just can't believe the writing in this episode. It does not resemble the writing in any of the other episodes. It is structured like a big mystery, the characters are introduced in this mysterious way, there's this strange conflict going on, attempted kidnappings, a murder, and the audience sits there the whole time thinking, "What the hell is going on?" I cannot stress this enough: The structure of this episode is designed so that the audience is solely thinking "WTF?" the ENTIRE EPISODE.
And then Uhura translates the information that would solve this, and this is done off screen. And there is a scene of Number One freaking out on the bridge because SHE knows what is happening but can't reach Pike. But this information is withheld from the audience. This is all structured to prompt the audience to ask again "WHY??"
And then.... nothing. "Oh, we don't know why this works or why it is designed this way". Yeah, we have all this incredible advanced medical tech, but definitely this machine tortures this kid. Shrug. What are you gonna do?
Um, what? And Pike just stands there and then leaves. WHAT? There is no way that Kirk or Picard would have allowed that to stand, Federation planet or no.
Yeah. It really felt like a statement that was imported from a different franchise or story. It didn't belong anywhere in Star Trek. I was terribly confused as to why Pike said NOTHING to that ridiculous statement. That statement on Trek should elicit a robust defense from ANY Federation member. I would have loved to see the look on that woman's face if she'd asked if there was poverty in the Federation and Pike had said, "No, we eliminated poverty." I just wasn't sure if replicators had been built by this time, since I know that TOS didn't exactly have replicators on the ship. Memory-Alpha's entry on replicators says that in the 23rd C that the Federation had replicators on big industrial sites but not yet on the ships. But we know from TOS that they weren't using money.
I don't know. Regardless of the actual circumstances, for Pike to say nothing there, or let her claim that the Federation somehow "looks away from poverty" was ludicrous. We know from years and years of Star Trek that the Federation is deeply concerned with eliminating poverty. And hey, they don't torture kids to do it. It was crazy to hear one of the core tenets of the Federation being treated as if it was something the Federation was ignoring. Or worse, actually USING in order to achieve scientific advancement. CRAZY
Yes, that was nice. Until the part at the end where the creepy woman exclaims that it is only like this because a torture device. Otherwise the whole surface of the planet is lava. Which just added to the WTF vibe of the episode. Which no writer was concerned with addressing at all.
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Post by sarapen on Jun 13, 2022 10:24:35 GMT -5
Nice to see a planet that has domes and stone buildings and grass rather than the usual collection of corridors though. It did actually feel like a place, despite the script's shortcomings. I looked it up and that mansion was apparently in the Adam Sandler golfing film Happy Gilmour. In fact it's in Oshawa, Ontario. I didn't know Strange New Worlds was also filming around Toronto like Discovery. |
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