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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Jul 7, 2023 7:49:33 GMT -5
Prole Hole what is your opinion of the theme song from Friends now that you’ve finally heard it?
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Post by Prole Hole on Jul 7, 2023 10:03:01 GMT -5
Prole Hole what is your opinion of the theme song from Friends now that you’ve finally heard it? It sucks.
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Jul 7, 2023 10:55:55 GMT -5
Prole Hole what is your opinion of the theme song from Friends now that you’ve finally heard it? It sucks. "I like everything about Friends other than its theme song" is a take, alright.
Please tell me you like the bit where they clap four times in rapid succession, at least!
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Jul 7, 2023 14:31:17 GMT -5
Prole Hole what is your opinion of the theme song from Friends now that you’ve finally heard it? It sucks. I was stuck in a cab in Gelderland and the song came on. The driver was hyped because it was by the Rembrandts. I miss a lot of things about the Netherlands but I do not miss Dutch radio.
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Post by Prole Hole on Jul 8, 2023 3:16:09 GMT -5
I was stuck in a cab in Gelderland and the song came on. The driver was hyped because it was by the Rembrandts. I miss a lot of things about the Netherlands but I do not miss Dutch radio. Fucking word.
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Post by Nudeviking on Jul 10, 2023 3:21:38 GMT -5
Lisa Kudrow was the only one out of the bunch that made things I actually liked outside of the show (Clockwatchers, The Comeback, Lucky Numbers, Romy & Michelle, and some other 90s Indie or quiet/low budget movie). I always thought she was the one quietly succeeding with an acting career when everyone else was looking at Aniston because she was married to Pitt. Not a fan of Schwimmer's late 90s made-for-TV movie-film about plastic surgery, Breast Men?
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Jul 10, 2023 13:24:57 GMT -5
Schwimmer will always be Greenzo to me, and thus my favorite Friends actor.
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Post by Prole Hole on Jul 11, 2023 4:21:44 GMT -5
Update to follow before too long, almost halfway through Season Three at this point (I'll report back after Ross and Rachel take a break).
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Post by Prole Hole on Jul 14, 2023 8:39:02 GMT -5
Right, it's Major Update time here at the Friends thread!
*jaunty guitar, corny lyrics, frivolous fountain frolicking*
So, I am now up to Episode 15, The One Where Ross and Rachel Take a Break. I have intentionally stopped on the cliffhanger and I don't yet know how it resolves (so please, no spoilers for the next couple of days at least - actually if you could avoid spoilers except for the very most general ones, that would very much be appreciated. Talk back, not forwards!).
So, some general observations to begin with. For me, it's clear that there has been a long, slow improvement in the show. The gags are getting tighter, the characters are being better used (and with more interesting combinations) and overall there's a sense that it's developing while still managing to retain a basically-standalone approach to each episode. That's a pretty impressive trick to manage.
The episode that squares that circle the most is The One Where Monica and Richard Are Just Friends. Bearing in mind the fact that I haven't seen any of the Monica/Richard storyline, the episode manages to pull off the trick of having an ongoing storyline that isn't at all dependent on having seen any other part of the ongoing storyline. It's also absolutely fascinating to see Courtney Cox act opposite Tom Selleck. I mentioned before how much Cox seems to swamp out the other actors simply by having so much force of personality, yet seeing her opposite someone like Selleck finally helps the character make sense. Selleck has so much screen presence he actually eclipses Cox, making her otherwise-unlikely inability to get over this particular relationship ring true. It takes an actor of Selleck's almost-unlimited screen presence to put both Cox and Monica in that sort of position but it really works and almost Any Other Guest Actor Of The Week simply wouldn't have managed it (imagine the rotating cast of women Frasier sometimes had a few episodes worth of relationship woes with as a relevant point of comparison). It's a terrific episode that really taps into what makes Monica work - honestly, the first one so far that's made Monica more than "oh look, Courtney Cox is in this scene" and it does wonders for her.
Also: Joey and Rachel swap books! That's such an unusual pairing at this point and it's an absolutely delightful sub-plot that really makes use of Matt LeBlanc's ability to project innocence as opposed to his more normally-exploited nudge-nudge wink-wink side. His horror that a character might actually die is superbly played, and it manages to make good use of Rachel's smug sense of superiority when she goes too far with spoilers and realises it (most interesting thing about this sub-plot? Nobody actually uses the word "spoilers" - it's not in popular parlance at this point, it's just referred to as "ruining the book" or "spoiling things"). Both characters bounce off each other superbly and neither is treated entirely in a business-as-usual way.
Anyway, clear favourite episode so far.
The show is still finding it a little difficult to balance the fact that it's clearly more than capable of being its own thing without the need to fall back on sitcom tropes and then sometimes falling back on those sitcom tropes anyway. It's a curious balancing act and it suggests a slight timidity in the writing that isn't at all there in the actual performances. "The One With Phoebe's Ex-Partner" feels like it's a fresh and interesting episode in a way that most other 90s sitcoms simply wouldn't do - again, Frasier feels like a relevant point of comparison, but it's hard to imagine Seinfeld, or even Will And Grace, doing anything like that, especially with The Ditzy Character. Phoebe is given real heart, it's a stellar Lisa Kudrow performance, and just very funny.
Whereas "The One Where Rachel Quits" feels like it could have been lifted from any given season of I Love Lucy with minimal retooling. The whole, "oh gee, maybe this job just isn't helping" is about as standard a storyline as is imaginable, and the less said about the whole girl-scout-cookies subplot the better. While it's entirely understandable that Rachel's storyline needed to move forward, it's just done in such a standard-sitcom-trope sort of way that you can hear the gears grinding as Rachel's pushed off into her new-job plot-line (more of which shortly). What's frustrating about this is not so much that it's bad - it's just very standard - but more that the show clearly doesn't need to do it this way at all. It's lazy in a way that Friends just doesn't need to be. Also, Ross looks like a pedo for much of the episode (especially sitting round with the other girls towards the end) which I'm going to guess wasn't the intention and Schwimmer's slightly diffident performance in that scene does not help.
The whole Janice and Chandler plot is... fine. Janice isn't missed in Chez Prole but it gave Chandler something to do at least. Again, the whole "caught kissing the ex" thing feels a little rote, though Matthew Perry and Maggie Wheeler do their best to put something into it. And hey, Joey isn't a complete heel about it! It's handled about as well as it could be, though I'm rather hoping Chandler gets something a bit more interesting to do in future.
And what of the gay panic joes, Prole? I hear you all cry. Actually, they're not as bad as they could be. I mean, not great by contemporary standards, but cultural context is important. Mid-90s U.S. sitcoms are not, generally, the place to go for progressiveness. Frasier had plenty of gay panic storylines (the "best" of which starred Patrick Stewart, which didn't hurt). And Season 3 of Friends is still two years out from the launch of Will and Grace, which really did make a lot of the gay panic jokes in other sitcoms suddenly look incredibly out of touch and old-fashioned. To its credit, Friends did occasionally play against type - in The One With The Race Car Bed, Joey attempting to sabotage a fellow actor by suggesting he played a boxer as gay, only to have the other actor get the role when he follows Joey's advice, is meant to make Joey look like an idiot for using sexuality in that way. But there's still (too) many examples of "gay=yuks" which hopefully will decrease.
And now, some character updates!
Phoebe: Yeah, still easily my favourite at this point. Lisa Kudrow is just great and is getting increasing opportunities to show her range and what she can do as an actor. Phoebe is moving beyond standard-ditz character tropes and is allowed to have a real internal life without it getting in the way of what makes the character funny in the first place. It's downright charming, is what it is, and long may it last. Even in an ensemble episode like The One With The Football, she manages to shine in all sorts of interesting ways ("I love this game!") and she's just incredibly easy to warm to and spend time with.
Chandler: With the end of the Janice romance, Matthew Perry just hasn't been given all that much to do, except deliver (often slightly over-deliver) quippy one-liners. As a character, Chandler just isn't being given an awful lot of material. It's always worth remembering how large the core cast of Friends is - six leads plus a scattering of ancillary characters is a lot to juggle and at this point Chandler's just not getting a lot of traction. Fine, but fairly neutral.
Joey: Matt LeBlanc continues to impress. It's a small thing, but bothering to give a horndog, slightly-less-than-genius character like Joey a hobby like reading a Stephen King book is just a nice touch that fleshes him out in a very show-don't-tell way and LeBlanc never fails to capitalise on a moment written for him. The whole "Italian Family" routine in The One Where Chandler Can't Remember Which Sister is a bit overdone (another visit to Standard-Trope Island) but that's not his fault and he does his best with it. Yes, coming along very nicely indeed.
Monica: When it comes to The Big Monica Episode, as previously explained, she's great and Cox does fantastically well with the material. But beyond that Monica is currently fairly similar to Chandler, given a moment in the spotlight, then back very much to second-tier ranking. The focus at this point is elsewhere, which brings us to...
Rachel and/or Ross: Are they always this insufferable? (Rhetorical question: no spoilers!) Pushing the Ross/Rachel relationship to the point where they split is understandable - it gives both characters somewhere to go, it develops some emotional stakes, and it allows the writers to cover new ground. But this wasn't the way to do it. Ross's jealousy is simply tiresome and David Schwimmer just can't find a way to put an interesting spin on the jealously material. Ross is just annoying in the few episodes that lead up to the split, and in a way that he hasn't been until now. For all that I might question The One Where Rachel Quits as being very standard fare, it did give Rachel something new to do, however inelegantly. And that's great! She's got a job where there's loads of scope for new comedic material and it gives Anniston something different to get her teeth into. But no, instead we get an "oh yeah, that guy wants to bone my girlfriend" storyline that just doesn't land. Rachel - not my favourite character up to now - does at least gets to be right here. Ross acts like a complete prick, his jealousy is stupid beyond words and completely plot-contrived (he's never been that oblivious before), and his behaviour entirely inappropriate. Schwimmer can't overcome the limitations of the writing (nobody could have) and Anniston just can't do warmth or vulnerability so even though Rachel is right about Ross it's hard to be that concerned about the character. To be fair, Rachel's frustration at Ross when he's delivering the picnic to the office in The One Where Ross and Rachel Take A Break is well-played by Anniston but it's not enough to cross the threshold of What Happens into Why I Care beyond vague abstractions. Oh, and the episode ending on U2s "With Or Without You"? None more 90s.
So that's where I'm up to! I'm still very much enjoying the show and very happy to see the overall trend is towards improvement. I genuinely don't know where the whole Ross and Rachel thing is going (though "somewhere better" would be a good answer) and I am actually interested in finding out, however dismissive I might have seemed in the previous paragraph. Friends remains an incredibly easy show to like and the charm and chemistry of the central cast - Anniston aside - is what really makes that work.
Even in lesser episodes, it's simply nice to be able to dip into, and let's face it, with +/- 25 episodes a season, every one can't be a belter. As with - and this comparison will be coming up a lot going forward - TNG you can highlight the greatest episodes all you like but oftentimes it's the journey to reach them that's more satisfying. Putting in the work to really spend time with the characters is what makes shows like this such a joy. I look forward to the rest of the season and will post another too-long update when I get to it.
CREDITS
ETA: I got (metaphorically) slapped by my fella for referring to the fountain frolicking as "frivolous". It's iconic, apparently, whereas I was only really going for some cheap alliteration.
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Post by Prole Hole on Oct 27, 2023 11:19:50 GMT -5
I know it's been a while since I've updated this thread, apologies. A lot has happened, and I'll get into it all at some stage soon but I'll say this. I'm still really enjoying the show - despite the fact that Ross has become Worst Sitcom Character Ever - and I reliably laugh and chuckle a fair amount at each episode. Usually fairly mildly, but still.
Saying that, I've had two fall-off-the-sofa-laughing moments, both from Phoebe. One was, "how do you know it was a phantom labour?" "Well, do you see any babies?", the delivery of which was just perfect beyond words. The other was Phoebe's reaction to Joey's, "I didn't get the part, then I lost my job" with "wow that is a bad audition." Again, it's as much the delivery as the line but godsdammit it was just immaculate. Phoebe is effortlessly my favourite character.
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Post by ganews on Nov 8, 2023 19:06:51 GMT -5
ETA: I got (metaphorically) slapped by my fella for referring to the fountain frolicking as "frivolous". It's iconic, apparently, whereas I was only really going for some cheap alliteration. Been reading through the thread, but first a note before I get to the real comment: one of the versions of the gang frolicking in a public fountain has a clip of Matthew Perry looking around, then tilting his head back and spouting fountain water out of his mouth. Obviously it's just a filmed bit, but the very concept is incredibly disgusting.
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Post by ganews on Nov 8, 2023 19:39:42 GMT -5
I watched a lot of the Must See TV shows as they came out but I don't recall Friends being one of them. I don't have strong opinions about it. I know that in some parts of the internet you can't mention the show without someone noting that it ripped off Living Single. I did watch or half-watch a fair number of syndicated episodes in high school. Only a few of those bits stand out, like how I cracked up my very attractive Anatomy lab partner by demonstrating the lunges Joey did while wearing Chandler's pants without underwear.
But I really want to talk about another Joey/Chandler moment. I've even considered making a thread about the topic. There was one bit where Joey and Chandler argue about using the same bar of soap; Joey thinks it's gross, Chandler says soap is clean because it's soap. Joey counters with "think about the last thing I wash and the first thing you wash". I didn't think anything about this until it occurred to me years later.
Later like every other person in college I was watching Chappelle's Show. In the "Trading Spouses" sketch where Chappelle is a black dude putting up with a swapped white wife and son, he says to the camera, "White people don't use washcloths. Did you know that?" and complains about "putting a bar of soap up your butt". That threw me off, because what a wild charge to make!
Somewhere around that time I saw a Comedy Central half hour with Jay Mohr, who talks about sharing one bar of soap with his whole family growing up. He doesn't mention washcloths one way or the other, but there's a line about sharing soap as "sex by proxy".
In the final season of Donald Glover's show Atlanta a whole episode depicts a fictionalized version of a real story where two white lesbians adopted and basically enslaved black kids. The kids are forced to do such White things as eating unseasoned and undercooked chicken and (specifically) bathe without washcloths "even for [the] butt".
What is going on here? We've got no less an authority on White people than Friends implying no wash cloth use, and two Black cultural touchstones outright saying so. Bugs Bunny used his hands while singing "Singing in the Bathtub", but Tweety had a scrub brush. Donald Duck used a wash cloth in " Mickey's Trailer". Where did this idea that white people don't use washcloths come from? Is it actually one of those disturbingly common true things like a few years ago when a bunch of white celebrities admitted they don't really bathe much?
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Post by Prole Hole on Feb 8, 2024 6:21:47 GMT -5
I have now finished the entire series. An update will come in the relatively near future!
But Phoebe is still the best Friend.
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Post by pantsgoblin on Feb 8, 2024 18:47:49 GMT -5
I have now finished the entire series. An update will come in the relatively near future! But Phoebe is still the best Friend. I've never seen more than a few minutes of this show. Can you tell which seasons are the ones that Perry claimed to have no memory of on account of his drug use?
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Post by Prole Hole on Feb 9, 2024 4:16:53 GMT -5
Yeah, it's not that hard to work out, regrettably.
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Post by Celebith on Feb 27, 2024 10:49:51 GMT -5
"I like everything about Friends other than its theme song" is a take, alright.
Please tell me you like the bit where they clap four times in rapid succession, at least!
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Ben Grimm
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Post by Ben Grimm on Feb 27, 2024 13:01:49 GMT -5
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