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Post by Prole Hole on Feb 1, 2023 9:48:48 GMT -5
This take is approaching nuclear-level hotness, but I gotta say: christ, Carly Rae Jepsen is still a thing? And she's doing disco now? C'mon now. You need a personality or a voice to do disco; Deschaneloid adorkability doesn't cut it. The existence of "Get Dancin'" by Disco Tex and the Sex-O-Lettes strongly suggests that "You need a personality or a voice to do disco" is untrue (I mean, almost all disco disproves, it but we'll leave that to one side for now).. |
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Rainbow Rosa
TI Forumite
not gay, just colorful
Posts: 3,604 
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Feb 1, 2023 16:19:10 GMT -5
This take is approaching nuclear-level hotness, but I gotta say: christ, Carly Rae Jepsen is still a thing? And she's doing disco now? C'mon now. You need a personality or a voice to do disco; Deschaneloid adorkability doesn't cut it. The existence of "Get Dancin'" by Disco Tex and the Sex-O-Lettes strongly suggests that "You need a personality or a voice to do disco" is untrue (I mean, almost all disco disproves, it but we'll leave that to one side for now).. Right, but you have to at least have a name like "Disco Tex and the Sex-O-Letters." Transplanting the "tee-hee, I'm just a girl next door who's shy and wants a boy to like me" personality onto disco doesn't work!! |
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repulsionist
TI Forumite
actively disinterested
Posts: 3,563 
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Post by repulsionist on Feb 7, 2023 17:17:56 GMT -5
Folks, have you ever wondered if Fat Freddy's Drop would have a refresh in another group but they sound more like UB-40 and Stax/Volt? Well, have you? It has been with extreme duress beginning as pleasant engagement that I hear this band's work today. That said, L.A.B. has come to the fore of 21st century Kiwiana. I plead with the band to do as they demand in their newest single.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Feb 7, 2023 17:38:16 GMT -5
This take is approaching nuclear-level hotness, but I gotta say: christ, Carly Rae Jepsen is still a thing? And she's doing disco now? C'mon now. You need a personality or a voice to do disco; Deschaneloid adorkability doesn't cut it. Rosa, I wholeheartedly endorse this edgy and intentionally provocative take on Carly Rae Jepson. Even though I think “Call Me Maybe” is actually rather good as far as early 2010s pop hits go, I’m kinda astonished by how many people are genuinely enthusiastic about her career as a whole. More or less the only thing she has going for her is that she doesn’t sound like an artist whose entire existence was generated by algorithm, which admittedly immediately vaults her above the vast bulk of current pop stars, but that’s still a really low bar to clear and doesn’t actually make her good. IMO. In short, I think that Carly Rae Jepson as a musical phenomenon is only possible in a culture that has been conditioned to accept a continually degrading quality in the commodities they purchase/consume, both in regular pop culture and in basic consumer goods. |
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moimoi
AV Clubber
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Post by moimoi on Feb 11, 2023 11:25:54 GMT -5
This take is approaching nuclear-level hotness, but I gotta say: christ, Carly Rae Jepsen is still a thing? And she's doing disco now? C'mon now. You need a personality or a voice to do disco; Deschaneloid adorkability doesn't cut it. I'm ok with Carly Rae being a thing and doing disco--it's the same pop-to-dance pipeline that gave us Kylie Minogue and Robyn, so I get the logic, at least. She doesn't have the requisite diva fierceness to hang with, say, Roisin Murphy, but I know there's an audience for 'underdogs that wanna dance'. Her duet with Rufus Wainwright was cute and 5.8 million views isn't too shabby. |
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Rainbow Rosa
TI Forumite
not gay, just colorful
Posts: 3,604
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Feb 11, 2023 16:33:35 GMT -5
This take is approaching nuclear-level hotness, but I gotta say: christ, Carly Rae Jepsen is still a thing? And she's doing disco now? C'mon now. You need a personality or a voice to do disco; Deschaneloid adorkability doesn't cut it. I'm ok with Carly Rae being a thing and doing disco--it's the same pop-to-dance pipeline that gave us Kylie Minogue and Robyn, so I get the logic, at least. She doesn't have the requisite diva fierceness to hang with, say, Roisin Murphy, but I know there's an audience for 'underdogs that wanna dance'. Her duet with Rufus Wainwright was cute and 5.8 million views isn't too shabby. Yeah, fine, I guess.
It does kind of poke a hole in the "um actually disco is an awesome genre that has been unjustly attacked over the years because of its overpowering blackness/gayness" argument, though.
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moimoi
AV Clubber
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Post by moimoi on Feb 12, 2023 15:24:07 GMT -5
I'm ok with Carly Rae being a thing and doing disco--it's the same pop-to-dance pipeline that gave us Kylie Minogue and Robyn, so I get the logic, at least. She doesn't have the requisite diva fierceness to hang with, say, Roisin Murphy, but I know there's an audience for 'underdogs that wanna dance'. Her duet with Rufus Wainwright was cute and 5.8 million views isn't too shabby. Yeah, fine, I guess.
It does kind of poke a hole in the "um actually disco is an awesome genre that has been unjustly attacked over the years because of its overpowering blackness/gayness" argument, though.
I would argue that the attack on disco due to its blackness/gayness is mainly a U.S. based phenomenon, though. In Europe, white, cis-het males embraced disco and electronic music wholeheartedly, from Giorgio Moroder to the current generation of EDM bro DJs. On the rare occasions when English guitar guys slag off any type of electronic music, they are pretty roundly criticized and laughed off for it (see: Noel Gallagher vs. Kanye before everybody hated him) |
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moimoi
AV Clubber
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Post by moimoi on Jun 1, 2023 19:37:35 GMT -5
Hey! I'm still doing these for my zine:
Taylor Swift singles ranking
Strange as it seems, I've never had strong feelings about Taylor Swift. I'm so entirely outside her demographic that for me, she merely exists as an entity in popular culture. She's certainly not the worst white woman there has ever been, but I can't find anything to like about her either. She strikes me as soulless (both in the sense of lacking 'soul' and possibly lacking A soul) and I feel sorry for the basic white girl demographic that seems to venerate her as their Beyonce. But since her proponents maintain her era-defining relevance, let's check the report card:
Lit 'era'
1. We Are Never Getting Back Together - Either a. she finally learned how to write a hook or b. Max Martin wrote her a killer hook…I'm guessing it's b.
2. Blank Space - Extremely catchy and I love the way she goes for it on this one. It's such a direct response to critics (like myself) who want her to be more interesting. Like, "You want interesting? I'll give you UNHINGED!"
3. Lavender Haze - I think this is as close as Swift gets to being somewhat-sorta-cool-sounding.
4. Style - A nearly perfect pop single. I'm only deducting points for cringe lyrics like "tight little skirt".
5. Shake It Off - It's dorky, but as a song for children, I think it's one of her best.
6. New Romantics - I like this song, but not because of her. This would be better sung by an actual dance diva like Robyn or Carly Rae Jepson.
7. The Man - Ha, clever. I'm surprised this didn't get more traction on radio, given the political climate, or maybe I'm not?
8. Anti-Hero - Another one that's so daft that it grows on you. Way to be, Swifty. Shine on you crazy diamond.
Legit 'era'
9. Love Story - This is the first of her songs I actually noticed. It has a great buildup and chorus, even if it's a bit sappy.
10. New Year's Day - Easily the best single off Reputation. I'll give this one to Jack(Anton)off.
11. Mean - The delivery on this one is endearing, though the instrumentation is rather sedate compared to other singles. It's probably better live.
12. The Last Time - Maybe it's Gary Lightbody's contribution, but I think this her first ballad that sounds mature. I actually listened to the whole thing.
13. Betty - This is considerably better with a queer reading, but overall, a nice maturing of her early style.
14. Red - Slightly overproduced, but it strikes a decent balance between Swift's wordy verses and an actual hook.
15. Picture to Burn - Sounds like Third Eye Blind with banjos, but at least it's sassy.
16. Teardrops on My Guitar - This strikes me as an countrified, slowed down emo song. I can see why it was a hit.
17. Back to December - A heartfelt ballad with some nice tremolo and harmonies.
18. Ronan - I can't hate on a charity single. The production is nice and understated.
19. Fifteen - Bog standard earnest ballad, but the earnestness works.
20. Willow - It's basically "Delicate" stripped down, which suits her better.
21. Cardigan - Ugh, she's describing clothes again. But at least she's trying something and it sounds like progress.
22. Wildest Dreams - This is pretty and not-too-saccharine I guess.
Mayonnaise bland 'era'
23. You Belong With Me - It's like "Sk8rboi" but even LESS edgy. An inoffensive pop effort.
24. Christmas Tree Farm - It's a holiday song with decent production.
25. Message in a Bottle - Bouncy and generic, like a commercial for shampoo or a Sandals resort.
26. No Body No Crime - The basic bitch trifecta (Tswift + HAIM) gets their Tom Petty on.
27. Ours - I guess this is cute? Sounds like it came from the same sessions as "Mean"
28. I Bet You Think About Me - I can't not hear "Piano Man".
29. Lover - Somebody was listening to Mazzy Star, but made it dumber and campier.
30. Today Was a Fairytale - Natalie Imbruglia?
31. The Story of Us - Overproduced and underwritten.
32. Mine - The lyrics on this one are better than previous efforts, but she really needed Max Martin to figure out hooks.
33. Sparks Fly - Her singing is good, but this is boring.
34. Begin Again - I think this is for people who've had no exposure to actual indie singer/songwriters. Like, it has all the markers of a Laura Veirs song, but there's something by-the-numbers about it.
35. Exile - Nooo! Bon Iver has no chemistry with Swift. It's like they just mixed two separate recordings.
36. Fearless - Really generic. I can believe a teenager wrote this by themselves.
37. White Horse - She's kinda whiney isn't she?
38. Tim McGraw - Saccharine and contrived.
39. Coney Island - Like anything involving the Nation[yawn]al, this is-zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
40. Everything Has Changed - Yup, this is a Taylor Swift song with Ed Sheeran on it.
Sus 'era'
41. Delicate - She's trying too hard to be relevant with the trop house beat and "where you at?"
42. I Knew You Were Trouble - The EDM drops are just too much, along with some clumsiness in verses.
43. 22 - Sure, the chorus is great, but the verses and her phrasing are obnoxious.
44. Getaway Car - I appreciate her effort to reach Pat Benatar levels of drama, but it's too contrived. I blame Antonoff.
45. I Don't Wanna Live Forever - Putting aside the 50 Shades connection, Zayn's falsetto is bad and the xx chemistry is non-existent between him and Swift. It actually would have been better if she dueted this with Harry Styles
46. Out of the Woods - Why did she make this? EDM and synth pop fit her like a jug.
47. Our Song - Am I watching Zoog Disney?
48. Eyes Open - Ugh, these chugging power chords are doing nothing for her.
Wack 'era'
49. Bad Blood - I'm sorry, not even Kendrick Lamar can save this stupidity. Hey!
50. You Need to Calm Down - A fine sentiment, but an utterly mediocre song that didn't need to exist.
51. Me! - She's officially off the rails. Lost the plot. Whatever unspecified personality disorder she suffers from is on clear display here. This never should have been released as a single.
52. Karma - What is she DOING? This is the sound of a woman on the verge of a nervous breakdown. You know things are bad when they bring on a rapper.
53. End Game - She's…trying something new…and it's…NOT working. [vigorously shaking head] She should have just sung the hook for a Future song and lost Ed Sheeran's number.
54. Look What You Made Me Do - Todd In the Shadows was 100% right about this one. It is boo-boo trash and evidence that Taylor Swift still can't write a hook to save her life.
55. Ready for It - HAHAHAHAAA!!! She's actually rapping! What a dork. Not surprised this never made it to radio. I'm surprised she let it be recorded.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jun 4, 2023 23:51:51 GMT -5
I'm the same, as in Taylor Swift only exists as a cultural entity for me. This was proven by the fact that I've only heard 5 of those songs.
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Post by King Charles’s Butterfly on Jun 5, 2023 14:24:17 GMT -5
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Jun 5, 2023 19:18:22 GMT -5
moimoi, oh no, I think some of the ones at the bottom of your list would be near the top of mine. “...Ready for It” for real, but also, I’ve heard “Look What You Made Me Do” so many times now that I’be come to have an ironic appreciation for how shitty it is, and I think I like it now? I do think “ME! (feat. the Panic! at the Disco man)” should be at the very bottom, at least. I also have little opinion of Swift, but understand why she’s enormously popular in that she’s done a number of pretty good to very good songs over the past 15 years which is more than can be said for the bulk of her contemporaries (some of whom, like Katy Perry, are inexplicably almost as popular with the same staying power). Mainly, I applaud her on being the one celebrity to take a meeting with FTX who was like “This is a scam,” and not “I’d love to make several million more dollars advertising with you, sounds legit to me.” That said, I do think the lyric “Well you were Romeo, I was the Scarlet Letter, and my daddy said stay away from Juliet” from “Love Story” one of the worst lines in pop music history. Although I suppose there’s at least a dumb earnestness to it that the dead-eyed cynicism of a lot of other bad writing can’t capture? Also, may I suggest you do a ranking of the singles for the popular music artist The Normal for your zine, should you ever want to do one of these as a bit?
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moimoi
AV Clubber
Posts: 5,006
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Post by moimoi on Jun 5, 2023 19:51:40 GMT -5
moimoi , oh no, I think some of the ones at the bottom of your list would be near the top of mine. “...Ready for It” for real, but also, I’ve heard “Look What You Made Me Do” so many times now that I’be come to have an ironic appreciation for how shitty it is, and I think I like it now? I do think “ME! (feat. the Panic! at the Disco man)” should be at the very bottom, at least. I also have little opinion of Swift, but understand why she’s enormously popular in that she’s done a number of pretty good to very good songs over the past 15 years which is more than can be said for the bulk of her contemporaries (some of whom, like Katy Perry, are inexplicably almost as popular with the same staying power). Mainly, I applaud her on being the one celebrity to take a meeting with FTX who was like “This is a scam,” and not “I’d love to make several million more dollars advertising with you, sounds legit to me.” That said, I do think the lyric “Well you were Romeo, I was the Scarlet Letter, and my daddy said stay away from Juliet” from “Love Story” one of the worst lines in pop music history. Although I suppose there’s at least a dumb earnestness to it that the dead-eyed cynicism of a lot of other bad writing can’t capture? Also, may I suggest you do a ranking of the singles for the popular music artist The Normal for your zine, should you ever want to do one of these as a bit? Do you mean The Normal of "Warm Leatherette" and founding Mute Records fame? Not much to rank there, though I might to do a tournament of synth artists like the EDM Bro tournament I did last year (winners were Calvin Harris, Flume, and Duke Dumont). For me, a successful pop song can be gauged by its hummability, in which case "Look What You Made Me Do" and "Karma" fail miserably. As for the overall opinion I've formed of Swift after listening to 50+ songs of hers, here are my takeaways: - While not untalented, she still embodies the huge imbalance in attention and support that rich, thin, white women get in the music industry over more interesting and talented women of color. (Like, she's alright, but she's no Beyonce, and I'm not even a particular admirer of Beyonce). She really needs to work on her lack of hooks if she's going to keep packing in lyrics like she's Elvis freakin' Costello.(Other songwriters she reminds me of: Morrissey with his 'poor me, I'm a devastatingly handsome rock star and everyone who doesn't worship me hates me' and Rivers Cuomo with his embarrassing tendency to overshare)
- Part of her bizarre anti-charisma (only way I can characterize it, because at no point did her songs make me like her as a person or make her attractive--no matter how much she described her clothes and makeup) is her insistence on having it both ways. Like, she wants all the credit for earnestness in her country, folksy stuff, but she ALSO wants to be a pop star, which is by definition, cynical AF. She wants to be thought of as some sort of underdog, despite being rich, thin, and attractive/white. The fact that so many girls, by their own account, identify with her is mildly alarming, but I guess there are worse artists out there to emulate.
- That said, I would not at all be surprised if she has some sort of Cluster B personality disorder. It would explain her relationship history (both real and by design) as well as her tendency to milk that for her career.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Jun 5, 2023 20:10:10 GMT -5
moimoi , oh no, I think some of the ones at the bottom of your list would be near the top of mine. “...Ready for It” for real, but also, I’ve heard “Look What You Made Me Do” so many times now that I’be come to have an ironic appreciation for how shitty it is, and I think I like it now? I do think “ME! (feat. the Panic! at the Disco man)” should be at the very bottom, at least. I also have little opinion of Swift, but understand why she’s enormously popular in that she’s done a number of pretty good to very good songs over the past 15 years which is more than can be said for the bulk of her contemporaries (some of whom, like Katy Perry, are inexplicably almost as popular with the same staying power). Mainly, I applaud her on being the one celebrity to take a meeting with FTX who was like “This is a scam,” and not “I’d love to make several million more dollars advertising with you, sounds legit to me.” That said, I do think the lyric “Well you were Romeo, I was the Scarlet Letter, and my daddy said stay away from Juliet” from “Love Story” one of the worst lines in pop music history. Although I suppose there’s at least a dumb earnestness to it that the dead-eyed cynicism of a lot of other bad writing can’t capture? Also, may I suggest you do a ranking of the singles for the popular music artist The Normal for your zine, should you ever want to do one of these as a bit? Do you mean The Normal of "Warm Leatherette" and founding Mute Records fame? Not much to rank there, though I might to do a tournament of synth artists like the EDM Bro tournament I did last year (winners were Calvin Harris, Flume, and Duke Dumont). For me, a successful pop song can be gauged by its hummability, in which case "Look What You Made Me Do" and "Karma" fail miserably. As for the overall opinion I've formed of Swift after listening to 50+ songs of hers, here are my takeaways: - While not untalented, she still embodies the huge imbalance in attention and support that rich, thin, white women get in the music industry over more interesting and talented women of color. (Like, she's alright, but she's no Beyonce, and I'm not even a particular admirer of Beyonce). She really needs to work on her lack of hooks if she's going to keep packing in lyrics like she's Elvis freakin' Costello.(Other songwriters she reminds me of: Morrissey with his 'poor me, I'm a devastatingly handsome rock star and everyone who doesn't worship me hates me' and Rivers Cuomo with his embarrassing tendency to overshare)
- Part of her bizarre anti-charisma (only way I can characterize it, because at no point did her songs make me like her as a person or make her attractive--no matter how much she described her clothes and makeup) is her insistence on having it both ways. Like, she wants all the credit for earnestness in her country, folksy stuff, but she ALSO wants to be a pop star, which is by definition, cynical AF. She wants to be thought of as some sort of underdog, despite being rich, thin, and attractive/white. The fact that so many girls, by their own account, identify with her is mildly alarming, but I guess there are worse artists out there to emulate.
- That said, I would not at all be surprised if she has some sort of Cluster B personality disorder. It would explain her relationship history (both real and by design) as well as her tendency to milk that for her career.
Yeah, I think this is all fair. And to be clear, I think “Look What You Made Me Do” is an objectively bad song, but it’s so bad that I find it really fascinating. It’s like when an old-Timey analog odometer reaches such a high distance the it rolls around back to zero and makes your car look like it has zero mileage. This song is likewise so flawed that it becomes a sort of anti-perfection, which is a sort of excellence in its own way, if you don’t think about it too hard. And yes, I’m saying that you should rank “Warm Leatherette” and the b-side to “Warm Leatherette”, treating it like The Normal has a collection of singles as large as the likes of Taylor Swift, as a bit for your zine. |
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LazBro
Prolific Poster 
Posts: 10,049
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Post by LazBro on Jun 6, 2023 9:48:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I think this is all fair. And to be clear, I think “Look What You Made Me Do” is an objectively bad song, but it’s so bad that I find it really fascinating. It’s like when an old-Timey analog odometer reaches such a high distance the it rolls around back to zero and makes your car look like it has zero mileage. This song is likewise so flawed that it becomes a sort of anti-perfection, which is a sort of excellence in its own way, if you don’t think about it too hard. I also have a certain fascination with "Look What You Made Me Do," even if at the same time I think it's, as the kids say, cringe AF. I think it's specifically because it's Taylor. This same song from any other pop artist would elicit no more than, "Ok, yeah, sure." But it feels so outside of her character, so completely not her aesthetic or personality, that it attains a certain grandeur. I think it's too weird to not kind of admire.
To the larger discussion: I don't have strong opinions on Taylor Swift. I've liked plenty of her singles. I think "I Knew You Were Trouble" and "We're Never Getting Back Together" are absolute bangers. I really like "Mean", which I'm pretty sure I first heard on the TV show Glee. I think "Lover" is a beautiful song. And while it's not a favorite musically, the video for "Blank Space" is art ( I mean come on).
Although it didn't land highly on moimoi's ranking, I also have an appreciation for "Getaway Car" but for a personal reason. This is the first "not specifically for children" song my daughter ever shared with me as something she really liked and wanted me to hear. She'd enjoyed a couple other Swift songs before, so I "found" the complete discography online and put it on her mp3 player. A couple nights later we were having family time, and she asked if she could play a song for us. She was so excited to share it with us. It was special to her, and she wanted us to be a part of that. It's a very memorable moment for me. I like the song fine. The chorus sounds like Fall Out Boy to me. I think Patrick could kill it on this one. |
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Post by King Charles’s Butterfly on Jun 6, 2023 18:11:12 GMT -5
Renaming the Goldwater Rule the Swift Rule after reading the lyrics of “Look what you made me do”
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Post by pantsgoblin on Jun 7, 2023 23:00:55 GMT -5
I'd like to humbly submit a Snarkin' request for moimoi and subscribers: Odesza, a duo from Bellingham, WA that's headlining Sat., Day 3 of Bonnaroo this year. My immediate supervisor in a summer gig is gone for a week for the festival and is particularly there for Odesza (described as "EDM"). They haven't crossed my radar until now and I'm listening. (None of this, of course, will result in real-world judgment of the guy.) Kind of reminiscent of early '90s uplift pop. Official Youtube (a trailer for a "Cinematic Experience" autoplays) Official Video
One featuring Olafur Arnalds |
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