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Post by Pedantic Editor Type on Jul 26, 2023 14:57:17 GMT -5
I think Season 4 suffers from two big problems: 1. Joss Whedon had clearly decided to take out some weird personal vendetta against Charisma Carpenter 2. He was overseeing three shows simultaneously (Angel, Buffy, Firefly) and that was beyond his capability. I think he could barely manage two - Angel and Buffy were both better when the other one wasn't on the air. As a result, the season is kind of a mess, with some good ideas executed badly and a lot of wheel-spinning. It's not all bad, but it's significantly weaker than seasons 3 or 5. My extremely unpopular opinion, especially since all the issues Charisma had have come to light, is that I actually quite like season four. It just went so utterly bananapants and weird on so many levels. Plus as we are all aware (I hope), I have always liked Connor, and his whole arc was fucked up and tragic, then there was Wesley's continued descent into nihilism,and it was just eh all kind of my jam*. I'm not saying it wasn't weaker than other seasons, nor that there wasn't some seriously off-the-rails happening in some episodes, and I am definitely not saying that Whedon's treatment of Carpenter was in any way okay or that it shouldn't influence me retrospectively, but. I am saying there was some character development going on there I found fascinating (and in some cases, deeply squicky-horrifying).
*at the time. I can't guess how I'd feel about it if I was watching it for the first time now, but at that point in my life, it hit just right.
And to be clear, it's not that it's BAD per se, there's still some good stuff in there - and we aren't that far into S4, I just know what happens in broad strokes. It's just messy. And definitely bananapants. |
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Rainbow Rosa
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not gay, just colorful
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Jul 26, 2023 15:54:08 GMT -5
I think Season 4 suffers from two big problems: 1. Joss Whedon had clearly decided to take out some weird personal vendetta against Charisma Carpenter 2. He was overseeing three shows simultaneously (Angel, Buffy, Firefly) and that was beyond his capability. I think he could barely manage two - Angel and Buffy were both better when the other one wasn't on the air. As a result, the season is kind of a mess, with some good ideas executed badly and a lot of wheel-spinning. It's not all bad, but it's significantly weaker than seasons 3 or 5. Well, as far as we know now, the personal vendetta with CC was that she got pregnant - but yeah, I agree overall, I hadn't clocked that Firefly was also on the air then and he clearly didn't have the capability to run all three or the trust to turn one/two over to other people. And look, I don't mind a hang-out monster of the week show, those can be great; but it's not really that either. I dunno, it feels messy. Connor's characterization is all over the place. Cordy doesn't get enough to do. Wesley's motivations are totally unclear. Instead of either showing OR telling us why people are doing things, it's kinda like "hey, you figure it out" I wrote a bunch of capsule reviews of Angel in its entirety a few years ago, and I think it was never as good as the show that spawned it for two simple reasons:
1) BTVS's real innovation as a show - and one of the reasons I think its influence on canonical prestige TV like Breaking Bad is so underestimated - is that every single aspect of the show flows out of Buffy herself and her (essentially real-time) growth from child to adult, with most of the plot aspects being curlicues on a bildungsroman - that grounds the show in a way that prevents the plot from going too far out of control. This... does not happen on Angel, where the title character is pretty much totally static. You can have a great show with totally static characters, and I think the show probably could've got into an enjoyable groove as a sort of pomo Kolchak pastiche - hell, that's basically what season 1 already was. But the show instead decides to do Big Sweeping Arcs! which... do not really land, because there's nothing to ground them - so the characters end up feeling kind of arbitrarily dicked around to suit the whims of a plot that's, as we've been saying, totally bananapants.
Accordingly, the greatest episodes of the show are mostly standalone episodes like "Are You Now..." and "Waiting in the Wings" and "Smile Time" - whereas the most artistically successful episodes on Buffy are usually also where the plot comes to a head. (Compare and contrast "Passion" with "Inside Out" and you see what I mean.)
2) We've written a lot about Whedon's shittiness, but he's not the only creative force behind Angel. Enter co-creator David Greenwalt: far and away the worst of the regulars in the Buffy writers' room. I think a lot of the stupid, lurid elements of Angel come from him trying to do an antihero drama under the aegis of the more successful franchise he lucked into getting to run. Specifically, he wanted to do a stealth-reboot of Profit. (No, like, literally, all the Wolfram and Hart stuff was supposed to be a prelude to bringing the Jim Profit character into the "Buffyverse.") Except, Profit was only a "mature" antihero drama in the "Rated M for Mature" sense and so you got Wesley randomly becoming a grizzled alcoholic, or a weird insistence on having random side characters be addicted to hard drugs. And a hell of a lot of misogyny - despite being an abusive little shit I really do think Joss as a writer was genuinely interested in the inner lives of women (with ample evidence for that on Buffy), whereas Greenwalt can only conceive of women as femme fatales or walking uteri or sex objects (or all three simultaneously if you're Darla).
...
All that being said I kind of like the show's fourth season? It's way better than the bullshit soap of season 3, and season 5 is mostly bad until the last third of season.
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Jul 26, 2023 16:26:50 GMT -5
I watched the new season of Futurama opener last night and it was actually good. It didn’t swing for the fences or try to be some kind of unique all-time classic (the resurrection episode at the beginning of the last revival was pretty ambitious) but, even with the too-cute “Fulu” jokes—felt like it could slot right into the old show (and those Fulu jokes were nowhere close to as bad as the EyePhone episode in the previous revival). Some good jokes, including in the background, a couple of unexpected gags—getting a good average, comfortable episode of Futurama’s way more encouraging than trying to do something big.
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repulsionist
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actively disinterested
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Post by repulsionist on Jul 26, 2023 18:27:12 GMT -5
Taskmaster (S14:E3-4)
Dara O'Briain is a cliste gaige. Sarah Millican is quite sharp cookie too.
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Post by DangOlJimmyITellYouWhat on Jul 27, 2023 21:50:20 GMT -5
I had forgotten all about Copper, but it popped up on the Roku channel, so I am rewatching. I 100% had not remembered Tessa Thompson in it at all. And her husband is Alfredo from Elementary.
Sadly, I do remember that season two went straight to shit.
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Rainbow Rosa
TI Forumite
not gay, just colorful
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Jul 28, 2023 0:38:53 GMT -5
I watched the new season of Futurama opener last night and it was actually good. It didn’t swing for the fences or try to be some kind of unique all-time classic (the resurrection episode at the beginning of the last revival was pretty ambitious) but, even with the too-cute “Fulu” jokes—felt like it could slot right into the old show (and those Fulu jokes were nowhere close to as bad as the EyePhone episode in the previous revival). Some good jokes, including in the background, a couple of unexpected gags—getting a good average, comfortable episode of Futurama’s way more encouraging than trying to do something big. Am I the only person who actually liked the EyePhone episode? You can't complain about "this reference is too dated" on the show that brought us Single Female Lawyer!! |
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Jul 28, 2023 5:17:15 GMT -5
I started watching Futurama after watching Classic Smispsoms, and it…was OK, but I ended up bailing midway through season 2.
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LazBro
Prolific Poster 
Posts: 10,267
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Post by LazBro on Jul 28, 2023 7:41:52 GMT -5
The Bear.
I get why "Fishes" is acclaimed and all that, and it was good, but I never want to watch that again. Not because of all the fighting or stress or uncomfortable moments. No, I can't watch it again, because that kitchen was a MESS, and I can't handle that. I like how John Mulaney basically played himself, and I'm happy he was able shed some of that long enough to deliver a decent grace. Good moment.
Now, "Forks" and "Bolognese" were wonderful, and not that it's a show known for zingers or anything, but Richie still has my line of the series so far:
"Did you just come from a funeral?"
"Yeah, the funeral of all my enemies."
Amazing what putting on a suit and owning your mistakes can do.
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Jul 28, 2023 17:54:26 GMT -5
Rainbow Rosa Single Female Lawyer takes a life of its own i. A way the EyePhone episode doesn’t (it probably helps that they were roughly contemporary too whereas the iPhone had been out for years by the time of the Futurama’s spoof)
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Jul 28, 2023 18:32:14 GMT -5
Rainbow Rosa Single Female Lawyer takes a life of its own i. A way the EyePhone episode doesn’t (it probably helps that they were roughly contemporary too whereas the iPhone had been out for years by the time of the Futurama’s spoof) I think it would be good if Futurama did a parody of Hit Clips in the year 2023. |
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Rainbow Rosa
TI Forumite
not gay, just colorful
Posts: 3,604
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Jul 28, 2023 19:10:11 GMT -5
None of you told me there's a Twisted Metal TV show with Stephanie Beatriz!!?? Shame, shame!
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jul 28, 2023 19:11:29 GMT -5
None of you told me there's a Twisted Metal TV show with Stephanie Beatriz!!?? Shame, shame! We assumed you knew. |
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Post by liebkartoffel on Jul 28, 2023 20:20:53 GMT -5
Rainbow Rosa Single Female Lawyer takes a life of its own i. A way the EyePhone episode doesn’t (it probably helps that they were roughly contemporary too whereas the iPhone had been out for years by the time of the Futurama’s spoof) And it's not even the worst egregiously dated reference in the episode. That dubious honor goes to...sigh, "Susan Boil." |
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Post by Floyd Diabolical Barber on Jul 28, 2023 21:07:45 GMT -5
There are new episodes of Harley Quinn streaming and, no big surprise, they are pretty awesome.
That is all.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jul 29, 2023 7:37:32 GMT -5
Good Omens season 2 dropped yesterday, much to my surprise, and we watched the first two episodes. I wasn't really sure what to expect - Gaiman had said that this season is more a transition to the sequel they were developing, not the sequel itself, so my expectations were pretty grounded. The episodes were fine, I guess, a little wheel-spinny (the cover story subplot is extremely sitcommy), but I thought that a lot of the Job plot/Tennant family reunion worked well.
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Jul 29, 2023 19:08:40 GMT -5
liebkartoffel I vaguely remember that, but I have to admit I remember the reaction to the episode way more than the episode itself. That said it’s also hard to objectively judge what sticks—I think most big Futurama fans were between twelve and twenty-two at least at some point in the original run, which is pretty much the peak ages for media indoctrination. Even if it didn’t get the best ratings those original episodes were still on network TV, had a longer time in syndication, and were probably bigger in DVD sales too. Maybe Susan Boil just never had a chance.
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moimoi
AV Clubber
Posts: 5,084
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Post by moimoi on Jul 30, 2023 14:18:47 GMT -5
Good Omens season 2 dropped yesterday, much to my surprise, and we watched the first two episodes. I wasn't really sure what to expect - Gaiman had said that this season is more a transition to the sequel they were developing, not the sequel itself, so my expectations were pretty grounded. The episodes were fine, I guess, a little wheel-spinny (the cover story subplot is extremely sitcommy), but I thought that a lot of the Job plot/Tennant family reunion worked well. I agree with these assessments, having just finished my binge. The pacing isn't great, but there are definitely fun moments throughout. |
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monodrone
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Come To Brazil
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Post by monodrone on Jul 31, 2023 7:38:06 GMT -5
"Baby Billy's Bible Bonkers"
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LazBro
Prolific Poster
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Post by LazBro on Jul 31, 2023 10:42:50 GMT -5
The Bear
The last four episodes of season 2, everything after "Fishes", from "Forks" to "The Bear", is basically perfect. It's as strong a run of episodes of anything I've seen in awhile. It was so awesome to see Richie step up and save the service during Friends and Family night. I think they're maybe over exaggerating what can happen in five minutes, but it was a thrill nonetheless.
I don't love the music in the show. I wonder how it would work if they dropped all the tunes and just had an original soundtrack instead.
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Jul 31, 2023 14:19:16 GMT -5
LazBro In general media’s turned against original soundtracks for whatever reason
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jul 31, 2023 15:29:37 GMT -5
Good Omens season 2 dropped yesterday, much to my surprise, and we watched the first two episodes. I wasn't really sure what to expect - Gaiman had said that this season is more a transition to the sequel they were developing, not the sequel itself, so my expectations were pretty grounded. The episodes were fine, I guess, a little wheel-spinny (the cover story subplot is extremely sitcommy), but I thought that a lot of the Job plot/Tennant family reunion worked well. I agree with these assessments, having just finished my binge. The pacing isn't great, but there are definitely fun moments throughout. Having watched the whole thing, now, I didn't really change my opinion. It felt very much like plate-setting for the third season, and the actual sequel book they developed, plus a bunch of flashbacks. I enjoyed it, but it didn't make a huge impact on me. Now that I can see something of the shape of the third season, what Gaiman was doing here started to make a lot more sense to me. |
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LazBro
Prolific Poster
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Post by LazBro on Jul 31, 2023 15:44:05 GMT -5
LazBro In general media’s turned against original soundtracks for whatever reason I wonder if this is (at least in part) why Only Murders in the Building appeals to me so much. It's the only contemporary set show that I've seen that has a distinct and memorable original score. Something that defines the show and doesn't sound like it was pulled out of a free license library. |
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Post by songstarliner on Jul 31, 2023 20:55:36 GMT -5
Good Omens 2: two episodes in and I find it coasting on its substantial charm, and not much else. I'll keep watching, of course: it's very charming!
Plus SO MUCH Jon Hamm. Bless them.
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Post by Prole Hole on Aug 1, 2023 3:18:41 GMT -5
Good Omens 2: two episodes in and I find it coasting on its substantial charm, and not much else. I'll keep watching, of course: it's very charming! Plus SO MUCH Jon Hamm. Bless them. "Coasting on charm" is pretty much all the first season did, though. As an actual TV show the first season was incredibly so-so, a middling but nothing-special adaptation of the book enlivened (somewhat) by the obvious chemistry between Tennant and Sheen but with little else to really recommend it. Sounds to me like Season 2 is very much in the same vein. I'll get round to watching it eventually but it's somewhere down beyond "catch up on The Equalizer" and "best do the recycling" on my priority list. |
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repulsionist
TI Forumite
actively disinterested
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Post by repulsionist on Aug 1, 2023 18:09:07 GMT -5
Taskmaster (S14:E8-10)
Definitely no great surprise that Dara won after two perfect games to start. Sarah Millican put in a great effort in the middle to end shows.
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moimoi
AV Clubber
Posts: 5,084
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Post by moimoi on Aug 1, 2023 19:35:18 GMT -5
Good Omens 2: two episodes in and I find it coasting on its substantial charm, and not much else. I'll keep watching, of course: it's very charming! Plus SO MUCH Jon Hamm. Bless them. "Coasting on charm" is pretty much all the first season did, though. As an actual TV show the first season was incredibly so-so, a middling but nothing-special adaptation of the book enlivened (somewhat) by the obvious chemistry between Tennant and Sheen but with little else to really recommend it. Sounds to me like Season 2 is very much in the same vein. I'll get round to watching it eventually but it's somewhere down beyond "catch up on The Equalizer" and "best do the recycling" on my priority list. Out of curiosity, I started re-watching Season 1 to check for inconsistencies/easter eggs, and I think there may be some hints dropped regarding Edinburgh and the Dalrymples (which is good, because that was my favorite part of Season 2 and I wanted more of that story). |
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Post by DangOlJimmyITellYouWhat on Aug 2, 2023 9:42:06 GMT -5
Good Omens 2: two episodes in and I find it coasting on its substantial charm, and not much else. I'll keep watching, of course: it's very charming! Plus SO MUCH Jon Hamm. Bless them. "Coasting on charm" is pretty much all the first season did, though. As an actual TV show the first season was incredibly so-so, a middling but nothing-special adaptation of the book enlivened (somewhat) by the obvious chemistry between Tennant and Sheen but with little else to really recommend it. Sounds to me like Season 2 is very much in the same vein. I'll get round to watching it eventually but it's somewhere down beyond "catch up on The Equalizer" and "best do the recycling" on my priority list. A friend of mine got tickets to a screening of the first two episodes in an actual theater, and that was fun, but honestly if I hadn't done that, I probably would have waited a while to watch it. My unpopular opinion is that my David Tennant tolerance varies quite a lot; if he doesn't have someone who will rein him in a bit, he can get really bombastic. I do think it started in the middle of his Doctor Who run because Davies was egging him on and it's just not my jam at all.
BUT yes there are some very charming bits, and a new character whom I LOVE SO MUCH.
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Post by The Stuffingtacular She-Hulk on Aug 2, 2023 10:59:24 GMT -5
"Baby Billy's Bible Bonkers" Switching back to Justified after watching the season 3 finale of The Righteous Gemstones gave me some serious cognitive dissonance. In retrospect, perhaps I should have put on something else instead to give my brain time to reset. I'm nearly done with season 2 of the former. Holy shit, what a show. Somehow I have managed to resist the urge to read anything about it or the new series, so I remain entirely unspoiled for everything that is happening. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Aug 2, 2023 14:12:07 GMT -5
The Bear
The last four episodes of season 2, everything after "Fishes", from "Forks" to "The Bear", is basically perfect. It's as strong a run of episodes of anything I've seen in awhile. It was so awesome to see Richie step up and save the service during Friends and Family night. I think they're maybe over exaggerating what can happen in five minutes, but it was a thrill nonetheless.
I don't love the music in the show. I wonder how it would work if they dropped all the tunes and just had an original soundtrack instead.
The music was probably my biggest complaint for the season. Even more than the sorta-pointless girlfriend. I felt there was way too much of it. |
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Post by liebkartoffel on Aug 3, 2023 10:03:20 GMT -5
Just finished Good Omen's 2, and I agree with everyone else's assessment--about a standard movie's worth of actual story and four hours of mild to moderately amusing...stuff involving Aziraphale and Crowley. Spoilery thoughts: I think at least some of the flashbacks would have been better spent fleshing out Gabriel and Beelzebub's (surprisingly sweet) romance--would have kept the audience more involved in the central mystery and vastly improved the pacing. Cramming all those revelations into a five-minute flashback sequence in the final episode was a weird choice. |
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