Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 12:32:17 GMT -5
I was honestly kind of dragged to The Force Awakens because I’ve neither liked Abrams I’ve seen (mainly his Trek films) nor the last Star Wars movie I saw in the theaters (Revenge of the Sith), but ended up really enjoying it. It really captured a lot of the feel of the old films, both in terms of the spirit of the storyline and the production design, while keeping things modern. It also made me pretty damn jealous that they couldn’t do this with Trek...And that does extend to production design. Trek has had a few very distinctive and coherent visual languages, and that’s something that the recent films haven’t really built on at all. Again, building on and updating that design heritage—sets, ships (I also hate the proportions of the new Enterprise), and aliens—is something that would not alienate anyone because it would go over most people’s heads, while at the same time would do a lot to make the films feel more like they’re actually set in a universe rather than just being another disposable summer blockbuster. That’s the sort of thing that brings people in for the long haul, and that extra attention to making the ship seem “real” in the original series was one of the things that brought people in (not not recognizing the Enterprise is a character is part-and-parcel of this). It's one of the things with the whole return-of-Star Wars thing that's really irritated me - The Force Awakens, from everything I know (I haven't seen it), treats Star Wars so reverentially, so sacred, that the general consensus is it really brings to life the look and feel of the original trilogy. Meanwhile, Abrams & co. can't be bothered to give Star Trek any of that same reverence, to the point where the only thing that feels "Star Trek"-y about the reboot series are the colors of the uniforms (at least, when they aren't wearing one of the seemingly dozen-or-so weird new uniform alternatives). There's absolutely nothing about the design language or feel of the universe of the reboot Trek that really has anything to do with any iteration of the series before, apart from the vague design of the ships (and I do mean only the vague design, as so many details of the reboot ships, from the Kelvin to the background vessels to the Big E herself, are very weird and wrong). Even in the leap from TOS to TNG, the whole thing still feels like it's the same basic universe, one hundred years later. The people behind the scenes came up with entire design lineages for things to transition from TOS to TNG, which sometimes weren't even seen in the show except briefly. A good example of that being the Ambassador-class - it was established years before we saw any of it on screen that, after the Enterprise-A, the Enterprise-B would likely have been an Excelsior-class ship, and so there should be something that links the Excelsior-era designs to the Galaxy-glass - hence, the Ambassador-class (which grew from an early Enterprise-D design), which we didn't see on screen until three seasons into TNG in "Yesterday's Enterprise," but which showed how much thought went into making things feel like a coherent, real world. Nothing about the Trek reboot has the feeling of it being in a real Trek-like universe - so much of the distinctiveness has been shaved away in an attempt to make it into this, as you say, "it was fun, shut up nerd" rollercoaster ride that I don't think it's going to have nearly the lasting appeal of the pre-reboot work. |
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jan 14, 2016 13:01:18 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Abrams & co. can't be bothered to give Star Trek any of that same reverence, to the point where the only thing that feels "Star Trek"-y about the reboot series are the colors of the uniforms (at least, when they aren't wearing one of the seemingly dozen-or-so weird new uniform alternatives). There's absolutely nothing about the design language or feel of the universe of the reboot Trek that really has anything to do with any iteration of the series before, apart from the vague design of the ships (and I do mean only the vague design, as so many details of the reboot ships, from the Kelvin to the background vessels to the Big E herself, are very weird and wrong). Ship design is one of the few areas of the Star Trek reboot where there's some continuity in terms of talent - John Eaves, who's worked as a concept illustrator and designer on all three reboot Trek films, also worked on all the TNG-era Trek films and the Final Frontier. Offhand I think he's the only creative to work on any of the films with a past experience in Trek. I think what bothers me is J.J. Abrams talked about the importance of diverse casting and foregrounded this in his Star Wars film (where the story moves on to the adventures of a new generation) while his tenure on Trek gave us arguably the whitest person named 'Khan' in the history of cinema - when, of course, traditionally, the franchise's reputations were the other way around on this front, with Star Trek making at least some effort towards diverse casting (and it being important thematically for the franchise) and the first Star Wars film featuring no non-white characters at all* (which noted SF writer Samuel Delany took it to task for at the time.) ...anyway, and especially as the new series is said to feature different characters, this is something I really hope the new Star Trek show gets right. When I became a fan, the two shows on air starred a black man and a woman, and it feels like it's been slipping the other way ever since. *Of course, at that point, James Earl Jones could have been an exception as nothing about the character's appearance or past was at all clear in that film, but you know. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2016 14:18:18 GMT -5
Ship design is one of the few areas of the Star Trek reboot where there's some continuity in terms of talent - John Eaves, who's worked as a concept illustrator and designer on all three reboot Trek films, also worked on all the TNG-era Trek films and the Final Frontier. Offhand I think he's the only creative to work on any of the films with a past experience in Trek. I remember learning of Eaves's presence on the staff of the reboot films, which I found very odd - if I hadn't read it, I would have never guessed that anybody responsible for any design work on past Trek projects was involved in the reboot. IMHO, the only things in the reboot films that feel like they come from a Trek universe are the shuttlecraft - there are so many weird design choices in the starships themselves, in interiors, in technology, etc. that nothing about it especially feels "right" to me. Yeah, that's bothered me, too. And I've been really put off by how the reboot films have treated their female characters, too - if you really look at it, Uhura doesn't get to do appreciably more in terms of her job than she did in the TOS series/films, but they just seem to saddle her with scene after scene fretting about her boyfriend and acting weirdly unprofessional while doing so (the "unprofessional" feel being something that applies to a lot of the reboot characters, honestly). And they turned Dr. Marcus into an excuse for eye candy who doesn't get to do a lot of actual work before she gets beaten up by Khan, nothing at all like her portrayal in WoK. |
|
|
|
Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Jan 14, 2016 15:03:40 GMT -5
Ship design is one of the few areas of the Star Trek reboot where there's some continuity in terms of talent - John Eaves, who's worked as a concept illustrator and designer on all three reboot Trek films, also worked on all the TNG-era Trek films and the Final Frontier. Offhand I think he's the only creative to work on any of the films with a past experience in Trek. I remember learning of Eaves's presence on the staff of the reboot films, which I found very odd - if I hadn't read it, I would have never guessed that anybody responsible for any design work on past Trek projects was involved in the reboot. IMHO, the only things in the reboot films that feel like they come from a Trek universe are the shuttlecraft - there are so many weird design choices in the starships themselves, in interiors, in technology, etc. that nothing about it especially feels "right" to me. Yeah, that's bothered me, too. And I've been really put off by how the reboot films have treated their female characters, too - if you really look at it, Uhura doesn't get to do appreciably more in terms of her job than she did in the TOS series/films, but they just seem to saddle her with scene after scene fretting about her boyfriend and acting weirdly unprofessional while doing so (the "unprofessional" feel being something that applies to a lot of the reboot characters, honestly). And they turned Dr. Marcus into an excuse for eye candy who doesn't get to do a lot of actual work before she gets beaten up by Khan, nothing at all like her portrayal in WoK. Really, of any of the odd decisions they made for the reboots in the name of 'updating the franchise' or being provoking, the Uhura/Spock stuff is the one that's blown up in their face the most, imo. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 0:36:48 GMT -5
while his tenure on Trek gave us arguably the whitest person named 'Khan' in the history of cinema Ummm, that was John Harrison! |
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jan 16, 2016 11:16:06 GMT -5
Turns out Sulu has a baby daughter: Which is a nice touch, because A, I can barely remember Sulu getting anything to do in Into Darkness, and B, this is presumably Demora Sulu, Hikaru Sulu's daughter who appeared in Star Trek: Generations as the helmsman of the Enterprise-B, the successor to Kirk's ship. |
|
|
|
Post by sarapen on Jan 21, 2016 17:35:04 GMT -5
Turns out Sulu has a baby daughter: Which is a nice touch, because A, I can barely remember Sulu getting anything to do in Into Darkness, and B, this is presumably Demora Sulu, Hikaru Sulu's daughter who appeared in Star Trek: Generations as the helmsman of the Enterprise-B, the successor to Kirk's ship. Oh, so she's the daughter who grows up to become the helmsman in Generations? Like Kirk said, it wouldn't be an Enterprise without a Sulu at the helm. Although how far did the original crew drift apart if Kirk didn't even know Sulu had a kid until he met her when she was already in Starfleet? |
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jan 21, 2016 18:52:41 GMT -5
sarapen Kirk knew Sulu had a kid - he even references seeing her before in that scene, although it was long enough ago she was still a minor at the time so he's surprised how big she is now.
|
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Mar 13, 2016 10:04:44 GMT -5
They've added Shohreh Agdashloo to Star Trek Beyond; apparently in more or less the same role she plays on the Expanse, that is, a Big Kahuna type leader person. Nobody's saying she's T'Pau, but the idea occurred to me, so I'm writing it down so I can point to this if I'm right. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2016 10:45:55 GMT -5
There was some quote about how she was playing the "High Command of the Federation," which continues the reboot tradition of seemingly pulling random vaguely Trek-ish words out of a hat and slamming them together with no regard for what they actually mean ("You understand what the Federation is, don't you? It's important. It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada," the complete lack of understanding of the chain of command, etc.).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2016 11:35:43 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2016 12:53:21 GMT -5
Maybe...just MAYBE...it's going to be better so they don't want to ruin the surprise.
I can hope, can't I?
Yeah, probably not.
|
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Apr 12, 2016 13:16:00 GMT -5
We have three trailers for Suicide Squad, which opens the month after Star Trek Beyond (and like that film, has been having reshoots.) I don't know what to think. That said, this Justin Lin interview is interesting. This quote in particular appeals to me: Karl Urban's McCoy is one of the best and most underutilized elements of these films (in part, admittedly, because they wanted to shift the emphasis to Kirk/Spock/Uhura, which I can't blame them for) he got the best moment in the trailer we have, and Spock/McCoy conversations are among my favourite things in the show. I wonder what Lin wanted the two to say to each other, considering the many great talks the two have had, like this one: |
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on May 19, 2016 12:04:39 GMT -5
There's a pretty great profile of Justin Lin and his film career (with particular focus on his upcoming film Star Trek Beyond) over on Wired. And we should be seeing a new trailer tomorrow evening, so that's nice. |
|
|
|
Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on May 19, 2016 15:20:02 GMT -5
Wait, is this still a thing? I thought we’d all agreed to forget about it and skip straight to the series.
|
|
|
|
Post by starforge on May 19, 2016 23:41:29 GMT -5
Wait, is this still a thing? I thought we’d all agreed to forget about it and skip straight to the series. I'm actually hopeful for this, but whether or not this is the reboot crew's last voyage doesn't matter for me. |
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on May 20, 2016 2:02:50 GMT -5
I'm actually hopeful for this, but whether or not this is the reboot crew's last voyage doesn't matter for me. They don't intend it to be. I'd kind of assumed we'd only get around three movies out of this cast back in 2009 (though I'd assumed all would be directed by Abrams), so I'm good either way. |
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on May 21, 2016 6:12:16 GMT -5
New trailer. I really rather like it; there's an early shot of what looks like a warp field rippling around the Enterprise in space and I am all for whatever that is. Edit: Nerds say it's an Alcubierre bubble, which is pretty cool. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 9:29:31 GMT -5
Though I am loath to watch the Enterprise get blown up YET AGAIN, I will give it a shot because Simon Pegg is one of the main credited writers this time around.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 11:22:56 GMT -5
This is MUCH better than the first trailer. Dare I say I actually have some cautious optimism now?
It's nice to see Kirk, Spock, and McCoy in various combinations having actual conversations again.
Also dug that Alcubierre bubble effect and many of the other visuals.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on May 21, 2016 13:31:04 GMT -5
I still think it looks aggressively dumb and did not welcome the return of the daddy complex, but I love that warp field effect (IIRC they originally wanted to do something like that for when the Enterprise was in flight for TMP but couldn’t get it at the right level—either it was too subtle to bother with or too obvious/unnatural to work for the film’s aesthetic, but the especially in the context of the turned-to-11 look of nuTrek it looks really cool).
|
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on May 21, 2016 19:24:25 GMT -5
Kirk's jacket looks really cool, as does the warp effect. The rest feels like a space movie made in the 2010s. To be fair, they were the real trendsetters in 'hire Zoe Saldana for space movies.' |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 16:48:05 GMT -5
I'm all in, but of course I was in before this anyway. The space visuals are insanely good.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 21:41:06 GMT -5
This is incredibly nerdy of me, but...I can't shake the feeling that the cool new warp effect shot is also giving us our first very blurry look at a new Enterprise - either a further modification of the ship from the first two films (a la the changes made to the 1701-E for "Nemesis"), or a new one to replace the one that gets wrecked in this installment. The nacelles and pylons especially don't really fit the Abramsprise as we've seen it thus far. Though, of course, it could just be distortion in the effect, or all due to blurriness from the video. Still figured I'd throw it out there.  |
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on May 22, 2016 23:39:17 GMT -5
NicoNicoRose You're not alone - some people are theorizing that may be the last shot of the movie (the scene with Kirk, Spock and McCoy talking about 'going back out there' is likely also at that point.) There's also a Starbase Yorktown, as seen in the shots of the trailer (the big Federation centre-place; we're not back on Earth for once) which is presumably where they'd get the new ship, leading to the inevitable dorky theory the new Enterprise is a renamed USS Yorktown, which is what the Enterprise-A was traditionally anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by Desert Dweller on May 31, 2016 23:07:33 GMT -5
It is a better trailer. It still looks fairly dumb. I did like that there are scenes of Kirk, Spock and McCoy talking.
New aliens aren't doing anything for me. Is the movie going to explain why we never meet these aliens in the Prime Universe?
The music in the trailer is so 10 years ago.
|
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jun 3, 2016 10:14:29 GMT -5
New aliens aren't doing anything for me. Is the movie going to explain why we never meet these aliens in the Prime Universe? Probably not, but the Prime Universe is full to the teeth with aliens that we only ever meet exactly one time (countless planets of the week, Balok's species from "The Corbomite Manuver", etc.), or species that appeared repeatedly at one point and then never again (the Suliban from Enterprise) or even species we never see but are referred to occasionally (the Tzenkethi on DS9.) Star Trek has always more or less suggested there's more aliens out there then we could ever keep track of. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 12:14:38 GMT -5
Yes, let's not forget that we could always find out more about the "vertical instead of horizontal big eyes nurse" from the NuTrek intro scene.
(Sorry, that was SO. DUMB!)
|
|
|
|
Post by starforge on Jun 3, 2016 15:37:40 GMT -5
Did anyone catch a glimpse of the hodgepodge NX-class looking ship?
|
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jun 3, 2016 18:31:31 GMT -5
starforge Word is that is the USS Franklin, which seems to be something Our Heroes take over at some point (apparently an older starship that just happened to be around.) This is official concept art of said ship:  Yeah I am not wild about that design at all. I assume it's pronbably related to the NX, maybe something built a little later.
|
|
