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Post by Prole Hole on Mar 4, 2019 10:07:17 GMT -5
This Week On Star Trek: Discovery - Eh.
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Post by Hachiman on Mar 10, 2019 19:59:14 GMT -5
This last one was so terrible. We've had a season of Michael acting sad and guilty over doing something so unspeakable (such that she couldn't even tell her adopted mother or commanding officer the truth) that it caused a permanent rift between her and Spock.... only to find out that she told him to fuck off and called him a half-breed. And, in fairness, yikes, but since the characters were kids it didn't hold up to the dramatic tension that story was building up. And the story was really piling on the dramatic tension. I mean, when Michael wouldn't even tell Amanda what she did, I immediately was thinking, "Sounds like it would tear the family apart. She either derailed Spock's entire life somehow or they did Pon Farr thinking it was ok since they weren't blood related. Since Spock is being hunted, I would probably just spill the beans on any non-Pon Farr explanation."
There's no dramatic reason for Michael to not explain that she was a shitty sister because she was unhappy being adopted by unfeeling aliens and that she feels bad about that. Its unfortunate but since the character is already a major retcon, any new information she provides is going to be placed under a microscope and this time the results were extremely unsatisfactory. It shows the writers aren't up for the task that they set out to do and could have avoided altogether by simply having Michael be raised by other Vulcans and simply knowing Spock's family due to their human connection.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Mar 18, 2019 1:18:31 GMT -5
This last one was so terrible. We've had a season of Michael acting sad and guilty over doing something so unspeakable (such that she couldn't even tell her adopted mother or commanding officer the truth) that it caused a permanent rift between her and Spock.... only to find out that she told him to fuck off and called him a half-breed. And, in fairness, yikes, but since the characters were kids it didn't hold up to the dramatic tension that story was building up. And the story was really piling on the dramatic tension. I mean, when Michael wouldn't even tell Amanda what she did, I immediately was thinking, "Sounds like it would tear the family apart. She either derailed Spock's entire life somehow or they did Pon Farr thinking it was ok since they weren't blood related. Since Spock is being hunted, I would probably just spill the beans on any non-Pon Farr explanation." There's no dramatic reason for Michael to not explain that she was a shitty sister because she was unhappy being adopted by unfeeling aliens and that she feels bad about that. Its unfortunate but since the character is already a major retcon, any new information she provides is going to be placed under a microscope and this time the results were extremely unsatisfactory. It shows the writers aren't up for the task that they set out to do and could have avoided altogether by simply having Michael be raised by other Vulcans and simply knowing Spock's family due to their human connection. I mean, I knew the show would never live up to what they were hyping. They couldn't. They themselves created these expectations when they A. set the series in past and made Michael related to Spock B. told the audience we'd find out why we'd never heard of her C. Had Michael tell both Sarek and Amanda that she'd done something horrible to Spock. It is the show building up this tension. The audience isn't imposing this on the show. The show is basically airing a neon banner screaming "OOH! SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED!"
She called him a mean name when they were kids.
That's it? Really?? Pretty sure Bones called him worse stuff on a weekly basis in the Original Series. Bones may have actually called him a half-breed at some point, honestly. They were kids! Who hasn't called their sibling a mean name? WTF, writers? They were KIDS! Why would adults still be holding on to this? Why would it create a devastating family rift?
That ridiculousness aside, I do think the last two episodes have been more coherent than earlier ones. The last one was maybe the most competently written episode we've seen from this group. I'm still not very interested in the characters or story though.
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Post by Lt. Broccoli on Mar 21, 2019 18:21:37 GMT -5
I mean, I knew the show would never live up to what they were hyping. They couldn't. They themselves created these expectations when they A. set the series in past and made Michael related to Spock B. told the audience we'd find out why we'd never heard of her C. Had Michael tell both Sarek and Amanda that she'd done something horrible to Spock. It is the show building up this tension. The audience isn't imposing this on the show. The show is basically airing a neon banner screaming "OOH! SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED!"
She called him a mean name when they were kids.
That's it? Really?? Pretty sure Bones called him worse stuff on a weekly basis in the Original Series. Bones may have actually called him a half-breed at some point, honestly. They were kids! Who hasn't called their sibling a mean name? WTF, writers? They were KIDS! Why would adults still be holding on to this? Why would it create a devastating family rift?
That ridiculousness aside, I do think the last two episodes have been more coherent than earlier ones. The last one was maybe the most competently written episode we've seen from this group. I'm still not very interested in the characters or story though.
Kirk calls him a half-breed, and numerous other things, when he's infected by spores in This Side of Paradise. But Kirk is trying to piss him off so the spores will go away, and it works, so...
Android Kirk calls him a half-breed in What Are Little Girls Made Of, but that's because the real Kirk intentionally made Android Kirk an asshole so Spock would know something was wrong.
Scotty also calls him a half-breed in Day of the Dove, but that's just because Scotty is a dick.
McCoy's favourite slurs seem to be "green-blooded" and "pointed-eared". And sometimes he or Scotty clearly use "Vulcan" as a euphemism for "fucking". It's surprising how often they got away with that on TV in the 60s!
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Mar 22, 2019 20:24:24 GMT -5
Kirk calls him a half-breed, and numerous other things, when he's infected by spores in This Side of Paradise. But Kirk is trying to piss him off so the spores will go away, and it works, so... Mostly unrelated, but I’ve been doing a slow-rolling MST3K watch-through for the past ~15 months and came across this earlier this week (video cued up):
Amusingly “This side of paradise” references were a recurring joke—Tom Servo hums that flute theme from it pretty often (and it is catchy, since it gets stuck in my head and I look through my Fauré and Debussy chamber music files for it and then I remember it was from Trek).
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Post by Lt. Broccoli on Mar 29, 2019 16:50:16 GMT -5
"Section 31 accidentally creates the Borg" is...well it's...you know what, I like it. If that's the cse, will it actually be connected to the First Contact movie and that follow-up ENT episode? I can see how it would actually make sense - it would just be Terminator 2 with the Borg, but it would make sense in context. I remember I hated that Enterprise episode at first, but now I admire the continuity and the thought behind it, and I would feel the same way if that's what's happening on Discovery. Fuck it, just go crazy!
Or maybe that's *not* where the arc is going and it will actually end up somewhere even more nonsensical. Maybe it'll just have nothing to do with anything and it's just a crazy thing the writers came up with, as seems to be the case most of the time (like with the Mirror Universe...d the Klingons...and everything).
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Post by Prole Hole on Apr 3, 2019 8:57:33 GMT -5
"Section 31 accidentally creates the Borg" is...well it's...you know what, I like it. If that's the cse, will it actually be connected to the First Contact movie and that follow-up ENT episode? I can see how it would actually make sense - it would just be Terminator 2 with the Borg, but it would make sense in context. I remember I hated that Enterprise episode at first, but now I admire the continuity and the thought behind it, and I would feel the same way if that's what's happening on Discovery. Fuck it, just go crazy! Or maybe that's *not* where the arc is going and it will actually end up somewhere even more nonsensical. Maybe it'll just have nothing to do with anything and it's just a crazy thing the writers came up with, as seems to be the case most of the time (like with the Mirror Universe...d the Klingons...and everything). Given what Discovery has delivered on so far in terms of continuity I have less than zero percent faith that they would be able to pull off a "Section 31 accidentally created the Borg" storyline anyway. Apart from anything - please, not the Borg. While their overuse in Voyager tends to be greatly overexaggerated, I just don't want a Star Trek which simply re-treads old ground. Say what you like about Borg usage in Voyager but at least there was an attempt to actually explore them as a concept - why they operated the way they did, what they hoped to achieve, various bits of Borg lore from Unimatrix Zero to the Unicomplex to the Vinculum... but we've done that. I just don't think the Borg should be anywhere near this show. I'm sort-of Ok with non-sensical, because that's mostly what Discovery's plotting is anyway. At least own your insanity! |
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Apr 3, 2019 22:14:24 GMT -5
I just don't want a Star Trek which simply re-treads old ground. I think the problem is that re-treads is basically the only excuse for continuing to make Trek in the present media environment. If you don’t embrace BRAND you might as well not exist, and continuity for continuity’s sake reinforces BRAND and serves as an easy way to link old and new Trek even if there’s little similarity in overall tone or story content. |
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Post by Hachiman on Apr 4, 2019 0:50:26 GMT -5
I just don't want a Star Trek which simply re-treads old ground. I think the problem is that re-treads is basically the only excuse for continuing to make Trek in the present media environment. If you don’t embrace BRAND you might as well not exist, and continuity for continuity’s sake reinforces BRAND and serves as an easy way to link old and new Trek even if there’s little similarity in overall tone or story content. I feel like there are a few ways that Star Trek can work in the present media environment. Discovery isn't quite nailing any of them though.
1. Simply exploring and revisiting places and species that have already been established though multiple movies and films. There's a decent pitch that I think could be made for a show about a lower class ship that just does routine, low-stakes missions within the Federation and occasionally to established political entities like the Klingons and Romulans. It could be as fan-servicey with routine visits everyone's favorite planets and species as it wants while fleshing out earlier ideas and concepts. It would retread, but not retcon. I think this would be popular for a lot of Trekkies who just want to live in that Star Trek-Sandbox for an hour a week.
2. A post-Nemesis show that can explore more high-concept ideas about life, sentience, and reality that haven't been covered. A more philosophical Trek to explore issues we are on the verge of 2019. Discovery is kind of doing this, but its clumsy is mucking up continuity in the process. A trek show where they make a point of exploring other realities, timelines and states of existence could be really good. Kind of like when Brian Fuller wanted to make the Tardigrade a crew member. Or when the Enterprise D met that version of themselves from an alternate Borg-infested reality that didn't want to go back. What if they let them stay? Time/Reality refugees? Transferred consciousness? I want more of that.
3. Something that gets back to the heart of exploration and optimism. Maybe a show with a crew on another 5 year mission doing humanitarian and diplomatic missions to new places. I think the pendulum is swinging back towards people wanting something optimistic about humanity getting better. While, I still think post-Nemesis would be a better timeline, it might be fun watching the early Federation post-Enterprise finding its footing and gathering member worlds. A show that makes a point about the benefits of mutual cooperation and sharing. Voyager was about a ship that didn't want to be a flag-bearer for the Federation, but maybe lets make a show with a crew that does. |
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Post by Lt. Broccoli on Apr 27, 2019 17:53:52 GMT -5
So Control *wasn't* the Borg? And even though they destroyed Control with magnets (?!), Discovery still had to go to the future?
Can we just have a Pike Enterprise series instead?
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Post by Prole Hole on May 2, 2019 7:06:17 GMT -5
So Control *wasn't* the Borg? And even though they destroyed Control with magnets (?!), Discovery still had to go to the future? Can we just have a Pike Enterprise series instead? Control wasn't the Borg... yet! Magnets, bitch! Also yeah, I'd be fine with Pike Enterprise (he's great and I rather loved Number One), as long as they actually go out and explore stuff and the series is about something (my biggest problem with Discovery, as a Star Trek series, is that it's not actually about anything. That's fine if you're Dark Matter or whatever, but The Expanse manages to be about something in exactly the way Discovery should be but isn't). |
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Post by Lt. Broccoli on May 2, 2019 15:48:08 GMT -5
Control wasn't the Borg... yet! Magnets, bitch! Also yeah, I'd be fine with Pike Enterprise (he's great and I rather loved Number One), as long as they actually go out and explore stuff and the series is about something (my biggest problem with Discovery, as a Star Trek series, is that it's not actually about anything. That's fine if you're Dark Matter or whatever, but The Expanse manages to be about something in exactly the way Discovery should be but isn't). Yeah there certainly couldn't be any Discovery episodes on a future list of classic Star Trek episodes. None of them make any sense out of context. |
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Post by Mr. Greene's October Surprise on May 3, 2019 21:36:09 GMT -5
Kirk calls him a half-breed, and numerous other things, when he's infected by spores in This Side of Paradise. But Kirk is trying to piss him off so the spores will go away, and it works, so... Mostly unrelated, but I’ve been doing a slow-rolling MST3K watch-through for the past ~15 months and came across this earlier this week (video cued up):
Amusingly “This side of paradise” references were a recurring joke—Tom Servo hums that flute theme from it pretty often (and it is catchy, since it gets stuck in my head and I look through my Fauré and Debussy chamber music files for it and then I remember it was from Trek).
Did you know that the director of "The Side of Paradise", Ralph Senensky, is still alive, and has a blog? And, YES, he talks about making "This Side of Paradise" on it!  senensky.com/this-side-of-paradise/senensky.com/special-path-side-paradise/ |
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Post by Mr. Greene's October Surprise on May 4, 2019 2:19:57 GMT -5
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Post by Desert Dweller on May 12, 2019 22:58:51 GMT -5
Control wasn't the Borg... yet! Magnets, bitch! Also yeah, I'd be fine with Pike Enterprise (he's great and I rather loved Number One), as long as they actually go out and explore stuff and the series is about something (my biggest problem with Discovery, as a Star Trek series, is that it's not actually about anything. That's fine if you're Dark Matter or whatever, but The Expanse manages to be about something in exactly the way Discovery should be but isn't). Yeah there certainly couldn't be any Discovery episodes on a future list of classic Star Trek episodes. None of them make any sense out of context.
I'd argue that Discovery episodes make MORE sense out of context. If you're not thinking about all the other stuff the show has set up, then you won't notice that the episodes don't make any sense! Maybe?
I just know that I spent way too much time trying to work out how or why anything was happening from episode to episode. There was no logic to the story. The opening of the season doesn't make sense after you've seen the entire season. And plot events seem to happen for reasons unconnected to anything the characters have said or done before. Culminating in the ship going into the future to keep Control away from the Sphere data, but doing so after Control got onto the ship, and Leland is now dead. (Probably.) And yes, Magnets, bitch!
In a post-season interview the showrunner, Michelle Paradise, said that it *never occurred* to the writers that their story was similar to the Borg. They never thought about the Borg at all!
It is comments like this that are the basis of all my comments about how the people running Discovery haven't actually seen Star Trek.
And then at the end, the show concedes to the viewers that, yes, it should have been set in the future all along. And really, sometimes the fans aren't wrong.
And now I am debating whether just setting the show in the future will be enough for me to watch Season 3? Because the problem of them breaking existing canon and then twisting themselves in circles trying to justify this was one of the biggest problems with the show. But, the episode-to-episode plot coherence was also a big problem.
Maybe they should try being a NON-serialized show?
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Jun 10, 2019 17:45:16 GMT -5
I didn’t pay too close of attention to this thread because I haven’t seen any of the second season yet (I’m not really spoiler-averse either—I didn’t go out of my way to find them but I was amenable to being a bit spoiled to determine whether there was anything that would break my enjoyment. But, having said that…did it really end on “And we shall never speak of this again” or some such bullshit? Even Enterprise didn’t pull that.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jul 1, 2019 20:43:21 GMT -5
I didn’t pay too close of attention to this thread because I haven’t seen any of the second season yet (I’m not really spoiler-averse either—I didn’t go out of my way to find them but I was amenable to being a bit spoiled to determine whether there was anything that would break my enjoyment. But, having said that…did it really end on “And we shall never speak of this again” or some such bullshit? Even Enterprise didn’t pull that.
YES! This was how they solved the problem of basically nothing in the show conforming to existing canon. The ship jumps into the future and then the handful of characters left in the original time who know what happened vow to never speak about what happened ever. I burst out laughing when this aired.
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ABz B👹anaz
Grandfathered In 
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Post by ABz B👹anaz on Aug 3, 2020 1:24:07 GMT -5
Just popping in here to say I "finally" started watching this, and finished Season 1 today. It wasn't terrible, but there were definitely things that should have been tightened up in the writers' room. I mostly agree with y'all on here with the "This should have been a sequel to the other Trek shows, or not a Trek show at all" and "The show kinda contradicts itself in each successive episode."
Ash Tyler killed Ricky from My So-Called Life, and that made me angry, and then they all forgave him because he's not REALLY a murderer. I really loved the scenes with Stamets and Culber as a couple. (Special shout-out for Anthony Rapp for exposing that fucking piece of shit Kevin Spacey. GOOD FOR YOU, sir. So sorry you had to go through that.)
Doug Jones as Saru is fantastic. The other actors are all pretty good, in spite of whatever dumb material they may be stuck with. Sonequa Martin-Green was awesome on The Walking Dead, and is equally awesome as Michael.
Lieutenant Detmer sets off my "Innsmouth Look attractiveness" meter, both with and without the cybernetic implants.
I hear that Season 2 may be even worse in the incomprehensibility scale? I can't wait to see how!
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Post by Desert Dweller on Aug 3, 2020 4:30:35 GMT -5
I hear that Season 2 may be even worse in the incomprehensibility scale? I can't wait to see how!
Yes! Well, here's a hint as to how it can get even more incomprehensible: There is time travel involved. You'd think a show that had this much trouble maintaining a logical, consistent plot would not try to add time travel to their story. Alas.
When you finish season 2, please try to explain the plot to me. For fun, after you watch the end of the season, go back and watch the first episode of S2. OMG, the S2 finale is just.... I sat there thinking, "How and Why is any of this happening?" LOL
There are only 10 episodes! How are you making stuff up as you go? How is the whole 10 episode season not preplanned? I don't understand this.
And yet, I'll probably watch the first few episodes of S3, at least. I really like the actors involved. And I keep feeling like the show has so much potential to be better!
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ABz B👹anaz
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Post by ABz B👹anaz on Aug 8, 2020 17:01:08 GMT -5
I hear that Season 2 may be even worse in the incomprehensibility scale? I can't wait to see how!
Yes! Well, here's a hint as to how it can get even more incomprehensible: There is time travel involved. You'd think a show that had this much trouble maintaining a logical, consistent plot would not try to add time travel to their story. Alas.
When you finish season 2, please try to explain the plot to me. For fun, after you watch the end of the season, go back and watch the first episode of S2. OMG, the S2 finale is just.... I sat there thinking, "How and Why is any of this happening?" LOL
There are only 10 episodes! How are you making stuff up as you go? How is the whole 10 episode season not preplanned? I don't understand this.
And yet, I'll probably watch the first few episodes of S3, at least. I really like the actors involved. And I keep feeling like the show has so much potential to be better!
I am halfway through the season now, and am already very apprehensive. What the fuck is going on with all of this? Did they advertise Spock being in this season before it started? Because if they did I would have been seriously annoyed at the complete lack of him (minus the child version for a few seconds) for the entire first half. And seriously, this stupid shit about Section 31, where everyone knows they exist despite them supposed to be mysterious? Has a single one of these fucking writers ever seen A) another Star Trek series with Section 31, or B) any sci-fi show where a hidden intelligence agency keeps their existence HIDDEN?! |
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ABz B👹anaz
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Post by ABz B👹anaz on Aug 9, 2020 20:03:16 GMT -5
Dagnabbit, since Desert Dweller said there were only ten episodes, I was thrown off and thought I was finishing the season this morning! NOPE, four more after that. And I've watched two of them so far. Okay, so...at this point I'm actually up and down on this season. The character stuff with Saru and his home, L'Rell and Voq/Tyler's son, Michael and her mother, Michael, Spock and Pike all being connected to Talos has all been pretty great. The main plot stuff less so, but I'll see where it goes by the end. I actually joked that the REDACTED was REDACTED halfway through, so to have a guess confirmed but then subverted was pretty neat. I'll have final thoughts after these last two episodes. (Side note - I really do love the alien makeup and costumes in the show. The Klingons' heads are a bit too big, but with their hair back they look pretty decent. Saru is brilliant. I haven't questioned for a second that he's not an actual character. I notice his arm-waving gait when he walks was copied by the other Kelpiens on his planet. Even Linus is pretty well done.) EDIT - FINISHED! Okay, I have many thoughts. At the end of this season, I actually LIKED it. A LOT. You have a second season with a single story-arc that ties together plot points from the prior season, brings in characters from the show 60 years ago, and manages to tie up most of the loose ends by the finale, put the classic characters back where they belonged, and take off for a completely new time period. I still totally agree that the Klingon War and Section 31 stuff was goofy. For a super-secret "don't play by the rules" arm of the Federation, they really just grab anyone they feel like with no real purpose for them being there, other to make them available to the main plot of the show at a moment's notice. But it seems to me like maybe - MAYBE - the show used the crutch of the Original Series time period to start up, and hopefully they'll be able to break free and do their own thing from now on. Also, I am amused that I was both wrong AND right about the identity of the Red Angel by the end. And the time travel there was classic Bill & Ted "Hey, we know this happened in the past because we were there, but we can't forget to go and make it happen NOW!" It works! |
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Post by Hachiman on Aug 10, 2020 21:34:53 GMT -5
I'm not going to go on a rant about Section 31. They were fine as they were presented on DS9, but subsequent writers turning them into the Space CIA with this huge organization and their own ships has been terrible.
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Post by Prole Hole on Aug 14, 2020 16:58:15 GMT -5
I'm not going to go on a rant about Section 31. They were fine as they were presented on DS9, but subsequent writers turning them into the Space CIA with this huge organization and their own ships has been terrible. The problem Trek has with Section 31 is they ought to be a moral abhorrence, not ace people with cool shit. This circle is resolutely unsquared. |
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Post by Hachiman on Aug 14, 2020 20:26:06 GMT -5
I'm not going to go on a rant about Section 31. They were fine as they were presented on DS9, but subsequent writers turning them into the Space CIA with this huge organization and their own ships has been terrible. The problem Trek has with Section 31 is they ought to be a moral abhorrence, not ace people with cool shit. This circle is resolutely unsquared. Yeah, like on DS9, both Bashir and Sisko were disgusted by the idea of such a group. And even when we get a little more information, they come across less as some huge shadowy operation and more like a relatively small operation comprised of the right people in the right places. It's unclear whether they really do exist or are basically a bunch of bored colleagues doing some projects off the books. And even then the show acts like they are totally in the wrong and also vaguely pathetic, like a grown-up version of that Red Squad crew that Jake and Nog encounter. They were never cool or organized or admirable. Its like none of the new writers even watched the older series. |
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Post by Prole Hole on Aug 15, 2020 4:55:26 GMT -5
The problem Trek has with Section 31 is they ought to be a moral abhorrence, not ace people with cool shit. This circle is resolutely unsquared. Yeah, like on DS9, both Bashir and Sisko were disgusted by the idea of such a group. And even when we get a little more information, they come across less as some huge shadowy operation and more like a relatively small operation comprised of the right people in the right places. It's unclear whether they really do exist or are basically a bunch of bored colleagues doing some projects off the books. And even then the show acts like they are totally in the wrong and also vaguely pathetic, like a grown-up version of that Red Squad crew that Jake and Nog encounter. They were never cool or organized or admirable. Its like none of the new writers even watched the older series. Entirely agree. Given the era that DS9 was made - ie squarely in the 90's - Section 31 is much more "shadowy cabal" in an X-Files sort of way than it is the Celestial Intervention Agency or Federation Body for Investigation. The 90's were all about shadowy conspiracies and that's what Section 31 were, people who moved in the shadows, kept a low profile and manipulated events as and when they needed to. I can't honestly say I liked Section 31 even in its original configuration but it at least made some kind of sense in context. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Aug 16, 2020 0:11:47 GMT -5
EDIT - FINISHED! Okay, I have many thoughts. At the end of this season, I actually LIKED it. A LOT. You have a second season with a single story-arc that ties together plot points from the prior season, brings in characters from the show 60 years ago, and manages to tie up most of the loose ends by the finale, put the classic characters back where they belonged, and take off for a completely new time period. I still totally agree that the Klingon War and Section 31 stuff was goofy. For a super-secret "don't play by the rules" arm of the Federation, they really just grab anyone they feel like with no real purpose for them being there, other to make them available to the main plot of the show at a moment's notice. But it seems to me like maybe - MAYBE - the show used the crutch of the Original Series time period to start up, and hopefully they'll be able to break free and do their own thing from now on. Also, I am amused that I was both wrong AND right about the identity of the Red Angel by the end. And the time travel there was classic Bill & Ted "Hey, we know this happened in the past because we were there, but we can't forget to go and make it happen NOW!" It works!
Yes, what is crazy about Season 2 is that I actually liked it MORE than I did S1, even though I found the plot even more incomprehensible.
And the time travel doesn't actually work. If you watch the first episode of S2 again, it is clear that the ending does not fit with how they presented the story. I kept waiting for the show to fully explain that or have it align, and they couldn't do it. And I'm not sure the Spock stuff really fits either.
There is also no real reason for them to even go into the future, because the threat was already neutralized before that happened. However, I won't complain about that too much because I desperately want this show to NOT be a prequel. I need it to be in the future. I need it so badly.
All the Klingon stuff was still really bad.
The Section 31 stuff was ludicrous. Like, totally ridiculous. Yes, I don't think the writers understand it. I remain unconvinced that any of the writers on DSC or PIC have seen DS9.
And the plotting still doesn't make sense from one episode to another.
However, I really liked Pike in this show. I thought the portrayal of Spock was pretty good. I like all the main DSC characters. Well, except for Ash Tyler whom I find to be a complete mess of a character.
And I'm hopeful that moving the show into the future will free up the writing so that they don't have to use existing canon in such a ridiculous way.
My two remaining worries about the show are 1. Again, the inability to write consistent plot from episode to episode and 2. The way everything in the show seems to revolve around Michael. Makes it feel more comic book-y than sci-fi.
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ABz B👹anaz
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Post by ABz B👹anaz on Oct 15, 2020 21:25:25 GMT -5
Discovery Season 3 - Pretty good first episode! Get to deal with the disorientation of the new time, lots of neat new technology, and several mysteries to work on.
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Post by Hachiman on Oct 18, 2020 20:10:30 GMT -5
Just reflecting on the first episode so far of season 3 and I like some of the new tech that they have introduced. Like the idea of tech that is seemingly integrated into a person without making them a cyborg seems like a big step up from how Trek has used technology before. Like, Trek as always relied on gadgets but this actually seems like a fresh spin on things. I liked that there was still room for optimism in the new universe and it felt like the first episode had more optimism in it than most of the first two seasons.
Also, as expected, it still seems to be recycling a lot of plot points from Andromeda, but it remains to be seen how much exactly. There's more than a few plot beats so far. Seeing as they are both Roddenberry's ideas I don't necessarily seen an issue with the borrowing itself as much as that the writers needing to go in this direction considering how dark most of the newer Trek content has been. It would have been just as interesting for the future to be some sort of further evolved and enlightened federation where the crew gets to play catch-up with all the ways that society has changed. It also would have been funny for them all to simply get arrested by Temporal Affairs as soon as they arrived.
Finally, can I say how I hate this thing in all the recent Trek properties where all the non-uniform clothes look the same? I know its a nitpick, but we're told that over multiple centuries, everyone's favorite things to wear when out of uniform is some combination of black pants, black or gray jackets, black or gray trench coats, scarfs, and their favorite raggedy shirt. Oh, and boots! Everyone gets boots! It's like "Into Darkness" became the fashion handbook for the franchise.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Nov 4, 2020 13:28:05 GMT -5
They started showing the first season on CBS, and my DVR started recording it, which I discovered when I had four season 1 episodes. So we started watching it, and we're liking it enough, or at least enough to keep watching it, but the show is weird as hell, and not in good ways. The plots for both of the first two seasons were both fairly incoherent, and not very Star Trekky, but I like the cast. And the big time jump in season three is just bizarre, to me because if that's what the show is from here on out, they should have gotten here no more than mid-first season, rather than spending two years spinning their wheels first. A few things that stand out:
- Every Klingon scene in the first season was just death. The design was awful, the delivery was stilted, and nothing about the characterization seemed familiar at all. It probably would have worked better if they weren't Klingons.
- Anson Mount as Pike and most of the Enterprise stuff worked, and worked well. I'm optimistic about that show as a result.
- The connection to Sarek and Spock and Amanda seemed blatantly shoehorned in, and just made little-to-no sense from a continuity standpoint. Unless it's coming up again in the future, which seems unlikely, I can't think of any non-fanservice reason for it.
- While they've been done well, there are a ludicrous number of space battles on this show.
- The cursing feels completely gratuitous. I've always thought of Star Trek as family friendly, for the most part.
- There are way, way too many "let's hold off showing who we're speaking too until the last possible second" moments. Ditto on weird twisty shots that start off upside down or something.
- I will be really annoyed if Control comes back in the future.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Nov 10, 2020 1:46:38 GMT -5
So far, this season is a slight improvement for me over the last two. I do really like that they aren't getting themselves twisted up by continuity. I'll just ignore the recent Trill symbiote inside a human thing. Maybe they fixed it in the last 1000 years?
The writing still has a few logic holes that bother me. For instance, when they go to Earth and find out it isn't part of the Federation... I just expected based on what the characters were saying that Earth would have been in really bad shape. But the way it was presented on screen made it look perfect. Not sure the show is conveying why they need the Federation.
So far I find the plots more coherent from episode to episode. Which is nice.
The one thing greatly annoying me so far is how over-emotional the characters are. They seem to have these extreme emotional reactions to everything all the time. And all their conversations are based on these extreme emotions. This seems out of whack with what is actually happening. I find this tiresome and would like it to be dialed back a bit.
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