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Post by Hawkguy on Jun 2, 2017 8:45:06 GMT -5
Everybody likes to say that the MCU movies have lousy villains, that they're the weakest part of the movie. And sometimes that's true, but is that fair overall? Solid, interesting villain different from the protagonist (+1)Thor/The Avengers Captain America: The First Avenger Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 Well-performed villain who is dark reflection of protagonist (+0.5)Iron Man The Incredible Hulk Iron Man 2 Iron Man 3 Captain America: The Winter Soldier Avengers: Age of Ultron Ant-Man Doctor Strange Pretty generic super-powered bad guy villain who wants revenge (-1)Thor: The Dark World Guardians of the Galaxy Something else (0) Captain America: Civil War 11 out of 14 get a positive score, that's a pretty good track record. aww I really liked Zemo. His motivations and goal were pretty personal. No vague world conquering for unknown reasons or because evil.
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Jun 2, 2017 8:59:27 GMT -5
Everybody likes to say that the MCU movies have lousy villains, that they're the weakest part of the movie. And sometimes that's true, but is that fair overall? Solid, interesting villain different from the protagonist (+1)Thor/The Avengers Captain America: The First Avenger Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 Well-performed villain who is dark reflection of protagonist (+0.5)Iron Man The Incredible Hulk Iron Man 2 Iron Man 3 Captain America: The Winter Soldier Avengers: Age of Ultron Ant-Man Doctor Strange Pretty generic super-powered bad guy villain who wants revenge (-1)Thor: The Dark World Guardians of the Galaxy Something else (0) Captain America: Civil War 11 out of 14 get a positive score, that's a pretty good track record. aww I really liked Zemo. His motivations and goal were pretty personal. No vague world conquering for unknown reasons or because evil. It's a decent enough idea, but he's such a non-presence in the movie.
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Post by ganews on Jun 2, 2017 12:14:33 GMT -5
Something else (0) Captain America: Civil War 11 out of 14 get a positive score, that's a pretty good track record. aww I really liked Zemo. His motivations and goal were pretty personal. No vague world conquering for unknown reasons or because evil. Agreed! I thought I was the only one. And he was something different, sort of realistic, if anything about these movie could possibly be realistic.
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Post by Hawkguy on Jun 2, 2017 12:47:55 GMT -5
aww I really liked Zemo. His motivations and goal were pretty personal. No vague world conquering for unknown reasons or because evil. Agreed! I thought I was the only one. And he was something different, sort of realistic, if anything about these movie could possibly be realistic. wish we couldve gotten his mask and fur collar... ![](http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/sites/default/files/baronzemoconceptart.jpg)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2017 22:39:24 GMT -5
That weird feeling when you have to explain that you aren't thag interested in Wonder Woman not because you're sexist, but because you find her origin and backstory to be kinda boring.
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Post by Celebith on Jun 7, 2017 17:48:48 GMT -5
That weird feeling when you have to explain that you aren't thag interested in Wonder Woman not because you're sexist, but because you find her origin and backstory to be kinda boring. They get it out of the way pretty quickly. It was like all of the cool parts of Zack Snyder's style with none of the cold, empty feeling.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 13:36:29 GMT -5
I think the thing that is really putting me off about Spider-Man homecoming is Tony Stark as mentor. Part of thing with peter is that becausw Uncle Ben died he doesn't really have that guiding hand, sure sometimes Connors fills a part of that but not a lot. Part of what makes Peter relatable is he makes mistakes, he goes at this alone and sometimes fucks up. It is a cool dynamic, he doesn't really have that in control knows what is going on type thing other superheroes have, he is figuring it out as it goes on. Tony Stark is basically a snarky replacement for uncle ben and that defeats the whole purpose of Spider-Man.
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Jun 9, 2017 14:09:07 GMT -5
I think the thing that is really putting me off about Spider-Man homecoming is Tony Stark as mentor. Part of thing with peter is that becausw Uncle Ben died he doesn't really have that guiding hand, sure sometimes Connors fills a part of that but not a lot. Part of what makes Peter relatable is he makes mistakes, he goes at this alone and sometimes fucks up. It is a cool dynamic, he doesn't really have that in control knows what is going on type thing other superheroes have, he is figuring it out as it goes on. Tony Stark is basically a snarky replacement for uncle ben and that defeats the whole purpose of Spider-Man. Look on the bright side: since he's a replacement for Uncle Ben, maybe they'll actually kill him off.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 14:24:41 GMT -5
I think the thing that is really putting me off about Spider-Man homecoming is Tony Stark as mentor. Part of thing with peter is that becausw Uncle Ben died he doesn't really have that guiding hand, sure sometimes Connors fills a part of that but not a lot. Part of what makes Peter relatable is he makes mistakes, he goes at this alone and sometimes fucks up. It is a cool dynamic, he doesn't really have that in control knows what is going on type thing other superheroes have, he is figuring it out as it goes on. Tony Stark is basically a snarky replacement for uncle ben and that defeats the whole purpose of Spider-Man. Look on the bright side: since he's a replacement for Uncle Ben, maybe they'll actually kill him off. too bad he is already in infinite number of characters and convoluted plot war
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Jun 9, 2017 14:49:45 GMT -5
Look on the bright side: since he's a replacement for Uncle Ben, maybe they'll actually kill him off. too bad he is already in infinite number of characters and convoluted plot war Force ghost.
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Post by Celebith on Jun 10, 2017 17:23:38 GMT -5
Thin Red Line > Saving Private Ryan
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Post by Trade Your Pistol for a Coffin on Jun 10, 2017 20:18:11 GMT -5
Thin Red Line > Saving Private Ryan I want to see the legendary 5-hour cut.
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Post by Trurl on Jun 14, 2017 12:45:57 GMT -5
I think the thing that is really putting me off about Spider-Man homecoming is Tony Stark as mentor. Part of thing with peter is that becausw Uncle Ben died he doesn't really have that guiding hand, sure sometimes Connors fills a part of that but not a lot. Part of what makes Peter relatable is he makes mistakes, he goes at this alone and sometimes fucks up. It is a cool dynamic, he doesn't really have that in control knows what is going on type thing other superheroes have, he is figuring it out as it goes on. Tony Stark is basically a snarky replacement for uncle ben and that defeats the whole purpose of Spider-Man. It also compounds the problem with the previous Spider-Man where they made Peter Parker middle-class. One of the defining characteristics of Spider-Man was the class and economics - Peter Parker was always tottering on the verge of poverty and that economic powerlessness was a balance to his super powers. It's why Parker couldn't get out from under Jameson's thumb - spider powers or no, he needed the job. Raimi got it - the whole "I could use my powers to help people or I could use them to become a wrestler and make money" is central to Spider-Man's character; it's the central conflict behind the whole "with great power comes great responsibility" theme of the comics. If this progression of the character keeps up, pretty soon we're going to have a version of Spider-Man which is basically one of Trumps' kids swinging around fighting banking regulations.
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Post by Trurl on Jun 14, 2017 12:47:23 GMT -5
Since it's a thing, just wanted to say that Predator was probably only a good movie if you were under 12 when you first saw it.
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Post by Nudeviking on Jun 15, 2017 6:55:21 GMT -5
Since it's a thing, just wanted to say that Predator was probably only a good movie if you were under 12 when you first saw it. There's a whole mess of movies like this. Texas Chainsaw Massacre is only scary if you saw it at a sleepover before the age of 12 for example.
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Post by ganews on Jun 15, 2017 7:27:31 GMT -5
Since it's a thing, just wanted to say that Predator was probably only a good movie if you were under 12 when you first saw it. I disagree, yet I feel this way about John Wick.
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Post by Gamblin' Telly on Jun 21, 2017 4:27:31 GMT -5
Since it's a thing, just wanted to say that Predator was probably only a good movie if you were under 12 when you first saw it. There's a whole mess of movies like this. Texas Chainsaw Massacre is only scary if you saw it at a sleepover before the age of 12 for example.
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Jun 21, 2017 6:40:44 GMT -5
Since it's a thing, just wanted to say that Predator was probably only a good movie if you were under 12 when you first saw it. There's a whole mess of movies like this. Texas Chainsaw Massacre is only scary if you saw it at a sleepover before the age of 12 for example. Now I'm intrigued. Name 10 horror movies that are scarier than Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
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Post by Nudeviking on Jun 21, 2017 9:03:27 GMT -5
There's a whole mess of movies like this. Texas Chainsaw Massacre is only scary if you saw it at a sleepover before the age of 12 for example. Now I'm intrigued. Name 10 horror movies that are scarier than Texas Chainsaw Massacre. This is hard, since very few horror movies are actually scary. They're generally either surprising (aka filled with spring loaded cats and jump scares) or they're gross (your Saws and Guinea Pigs and what-have-yous). The only movies that scared me and still to this day make me feel uneasy are things I saw when I was young and so I have fucked up baggage about them. Exorcist is scarier for me. Poltergeist. Return to Oz. Nosferatu. To be honest E.T. scared me more than Texas Chainsaw Massacre ever did. Same goes for the Neverending Story. Texas Chainsaw Massacre is just so over the top it's laughable.
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Post by Gamblin' Telly on Jun 21, 2017 9:33:27 GMT -5
This is hard, since very few horror movies are actually scary. They're generally either surprising (aka filled with spring loaded cats and jump scares) or they're gross (your Saws and Guinea Pigs and what-have-yous).... Nudie, you kow I love ya baby, but you just don't get horror movies.
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Post by chalkdevil π on Jun 21, 2017 10:03:15 GMT -5
Now I'm intrigued. Name 10 horror movies that are scarier than Texas Chainsaw Massacre. This is hard, since very few horror movies are actually scary. They're generally either surprising (aka filled with spring loaded cats and jump scares) or they're gross (your Saws and Guinea Pigs and what-have-yous). The only movies that scared me and still to this day make me feel uneasy are things I saw when I was young and so I have fucked up baggage about them. Exorcist is scarier for me. Poltergeist. Return to Oz. Nosferatu. To be honest E.T. scared me more than Texas Chainsaw Massacre ever did. Same goes for the Neverending Story. Texas Chainsaw Massacre is just so over the top it's laughable. I'm going to have to agree with Nudeviking on this one. I really don't find the slasher films to be scary. Although I'm trying to think of a recent horror film that I thought was legitimately scary. Not just jumping at those damn cats, but like, I can't sleep at night hours or days later. The last film I remember that happening with was after seeing Event Horizon and that was probably just because I was 16.
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Trurl
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Post by Trurl on Jun 21, 2017 11:45:24 GMT -5
This is hard, since very few horror movies are actually scary. They're generally either surprising (aka filled with spring loaded cats and jump scares) or they're gross (your Saws and Guinea Pigs and what-have-yous). The only movies that scared me and still to this day make me feel uneasy are things I saw when I was young and so I have fucked up baggage about them. Exorcist is scarier for me. Poltergeist. Return to Oz. Nosferatu. To be honest E.T. scared me more than Texas Chainsaw Massacre ever did. Same goes for the Neverending Story. Texas Chainsaw Massacre is just so over the top it's laughable. I'm going to have to agree with Nudeviking on this one. I really don't find the slasher films to be scary. Although I'm trying to think of a recent horror film that I thought was legitimately scary. Not just jumping at those damn cats, but like, I can't sleep at night hours or days later. The last film I remember that happening with was after seeing Event Horizon and that was probably just because I was 16. Yeah, I always found slasher movies boring - the formulaic-ness just saps any sense of weight to the movies and the stakes are all up front. Every scene becomes either a character getting killed or a fakeout, flip a coin. Probably the movie that scared me most back in the day was the Kaufman "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". The horror in it was that you didn't *know* the stakes - weird shit was happening and the characters and audience didn't know what was going on. Alien, too - up until Dallas dies the xenomorph wasn't actually a threat (nobody was going to stick their heads over leathery eggs after Kane did and the chestbuster was only the size of a cat). And that was 3/4 of the way through the movie - only a quarter (or less) of the movie's runtime was running away from the xenomorph.
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Post by Jimmy James on Jun 21, 2017 13:15:26 GMT -5
I'm going to have to agree with Nudeviking on this one. I really don't find the slasher films to be scary. Although I'm trying to think of a recent horror film that I thought was legitimately scary. Not just jumping at those damn cats, but like, I can't sleep at night hours or days later. The last film I remember that happening with was after seeing Event Horizon and that was probably just because I was 16. Yeah, I always found slasher movies boring - the formulaic-ness just saps any sense of weight to the movies and the stakes are all up front. Every scene becomes either a character getting killed or a fakeout, flip a coin. Probably the movie that scared me most back in the day was the Kaufman "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". The horror in it was that you didn't *know* the stakes - weird shit was happening and the characters and audience didn't know what was going on. Alien, too - up until Dallas dies the xenomorph wasn't actually a threat (nobody was going to stick their heads over leathery eggs after Kane did and the chestbuster was only the size of a cat). And that was 3/4 of the way through the movie - only a quarter (or less) of the movie's runtime was running away from the xenomorph. I find Sci-fi horror effective for the reasons you give, it opens up a lot more possibilities than just some guy with a knife. The Thing is my favorite horror movie, which early on has a lot of paranoia similar to Invasion of the Body Snatchers, where characters don't know who to trust. The shock of certain scenes feels earned, rather than the cheap "cat knocks over a garbage can off screen" type of jump scare. Everything is in full view, you just weren't ready for that shit to happen.
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Post by Incense on Jun 21, 2017 13:32:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I always found slasher movies boring - the formulaic-ness just saps any sense of weight to the movies and the stakes are all up front. Every scene becomes either a character getting killed or a fakeout, flip a coin. Probably the movie that scared me most back in the day was the Kaufman "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". The horror in it was that you didn't *know* the stakes - weird shit was happening and the characters and audience didn't know what was going on. Alien, too - up until Dallas dies the xenomorph wasn't actually a threat (nobody was going to stick their heads over leathery eggs after Kane did and the chestbuster was only the size of a cat). And that was 3/4 of the way through the movie - only a quarter (or less) of the movie's runtime was running away from the xenomorph. I find Sci-fi horror effective for the reasons you give, it opens up a lot more possibilities than just some guy with a knife. The Thing is my favorite horror movie, which early on has a lot of paranoia similar to Invasion of the Body Snatchers, where characters don't know who to trust. The shock of certain scenes feels earned, rather than the cheap "cat knocks over a garbage can off screen" type of jump scare. Everything is in full view, you just weren't ready for that shit to happen. If something is surreal enough, I find it either delightful or delightfully terrifying, which is what every one of those special effects in The Thing are for me. That stuff is wonderfully scary, as well as one of my favorite horror tropes represented in that movie: one of us is compromised. Who is it? Ih wait, I see you mentioned the paranoia aspect too. Well, I agree with you on that!
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Post by Trurl on Jun 21, 2017 14:10:31 GMT -5
Yeah, I always found slasher movies boring - the formulaic-ness just saps any sense of weight to the movies and the stakes are all up front. Every scene becomes either a character getting killed or a fakeout, flip a coin. Probably the movie that scared me most back in the day was the Kaufman "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". The horror in it was that you didn't *know* the stakes - weird shit was happening and the characters and audience didn't know what was going on. Alien, too - up until Dallas dies the xenomorph wasn't actually a threat (nobody was going to stick their heads over leathery eggs after Kane did and the chestbuster was only the size of a cat). And that was 3/4 of the way through the movie - only a quarter (or less) of the movie's runtime was running away from the xenomorph. I find Sci-fi horror effective for the reasons you give, it opens up a lot more possibilities than just some guy with a knife. The Thing is my favorite horror movie, which early on has a lot of paranoia similar to Invasion of the Body Snatchers, where characters don't know who to trust. The shock of certain scenes feels earned, rather than the cheap "cat knocks over a garbage can off screen" type of jump scare. Everything is in full view, you just weren't ready for that shit to happen. I agree. The other thing that makes The Thing so good (and is the rule for good horror in general) is that the non-horror bits of it are so great - the characters are well fleshed out, they have things that are going on with them other than running away from the monster (Wilford Brimley's whole character arc, for instance). And the humour in it is legit funny. And I've got to say that this is possibly my favourite scene in all cinema.
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Jun 21, 2017 14:32:43 GMT -5
Honestly, I think lumping TCM with the formulaic slashers that followed is a bit like saying Seinfeld is overrated.
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Post by chalkdevil π on Jun 21, 2017 15:25:34 GMT -5
Honestly, I think lumping TCM with the formulaic slashers that followed is a bit like saying Seinfeld is overrated. Maybe for me it's a function of not seeing it until after seeing the Halloweens/Friday the 13ths that followed it. Plus, seeing the films 20+ years after their releases robs them of some of the shock value. And all of this after seeing Scream first, which is more or less mocking the films I was aware of but hadn't seen. I had the same problem with Animal House. I watched it as an adult probably 25 years after it was released and thought it wasn't funny. I'd seen all the jokes already, stolen by the films that followed it. Intellectually I knew that this was the originator of those jokes, but it didn't make me laugh so it felt unsuccessful to me as a comedy. I could see the same thing with a 20 year old now trying to watch Seinfeld from the beginning, only knowing that it is the "best" sitcom without any other knowledge of it's place in pop culture. It would seem slow and boring. The laugh-track would be obnoxious. The separate plots that all looped together at the end for a nice punch line wouldn't be innovative. I could definitely see them giving it the overrated tag because what makes it different than watching the Big Bang Theory except everyone has weird 90s clothes and there are no cell phones. That being said, I don't think I've seen TCM for at least 15 years and could probably revisit it with a more critical eye. Although, it would probably help me appreciate it as a film, it won't change the fact that I don't find it, or the sub-genre it helped spawn, scary.
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Jun 21, 2017 16:25:43 GMT -5
Honestly, I think lumping TCM with the formulaic slashers that followed is a bit like saying Seinfeld is overrated. Maybe for me it's a function of not seeing it until after seeing the Halloweens/Friday the 13ths that followed it. Plus, seeing the films 20+ years after their releases robs them of some of the shock value. And all of this after seeing Scream first, which is more or less mocking the films I was aware of but hadn't seen. I had the same problem with Animal House. I watched it as an adult probably 25 years after it was released and thought it wasn't funny. I'd seen all the jokes already, stolen by the films that followed it. Intellectually I knew that this was the originator of those jokes, but it didn't make me laugh so it felt unsuccessful to me as a comedy. I could see the same thing with a 20 year old now trying to watch Seinfeld from the beginning, only knowing that it is the "best" sitcom without any other knowledge of it's place in pop culture. It would seem slow and boring. The laugh-track would be obnoxious. The separate plots that all looped together at the end for a nice punch line wouldn't be innovative. I could definitely see them giving it the overrated tag because what makes it different than watching the Big Bang Theory except everyone has weird 90s clothes and there are no cell phones. That being said, I don't think I've seen TCM for at least 15 years and could probably revisit it with a more critical eye. Although, it would probably help me appreciate it as a film, it won't change the fact that I don't find it, or the sub-genre it helped spawn, scary. I hope you get the chance to give TCM another chance, I really think it's something special. The horror doesn't come from the kills, it comes from the feeling that you are gazing into a moral abyss. Fun fact: when the British censor tried to cut the film, he found that there wasn't any scene he could cut that would make the film less shocking; the entire film has an oppressive air of grotesque horror. You could almost call it Lovecraftian.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 16:51:29 GMT -5
I find that thrillers are scarier to me than horror movies. Zodiac is probably the scariest film I've seen for instance. Also, the scene in Nocturnal Animals when the criminals are preying on the family is way more scary than most horror films. Then you got indvidual scenes like in Showpiecer when you find out the train is being run off of child labor, it just filled me with this unease and disgust that no Horror film has been able to compare.
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Post by Nudeviking on Jun 21, 2017 18:57:08 GMT -5
This is hard, since very few horror movies are actually scary. They're generally either surprising (aka filled with spring loaded cats and jump scares) or they're gross (your Saws and Guinea Pigs and what-have-yous). The only movies that scared me and still to this day make me feel uneasy are things I saw when I was young and so I have fucked up baggage about them. Exorcist is scarier for me. Poltergeist. Return to Oz. Nosferatu. To be honest E.T. scared me more than Texas Chainsaw Massacre ever did. Same goes for the Neverending Story. Texas Chainsaw Massacre is just so over the top it's laughable. I'm going to have to agree with Nudeviking on this one. I really don't find the slasher films to be scary. Although I'm trying to think of a recent horror film that I thought was legitimately scary. Not just jumping at those damn cats, but like, I can't sleep at night hours or days later. The last film I remember that happening with was after seeing Event Horizon and that was probably just because I was 16. The inability to sleep or lasting sense of unease after the film ends is what makes a movie truly scary for me. I honestly can't remember the last film that made me feel uncomfortable like that. Maybe that Richard Gere movie about Mothman, but that was only because I was drunk and decided to cut through a wooded area in the middle of the night to get home instead of drunk drive after watching it.
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