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Post by liebkartoffel on Feb 5, 2018 21:25:32 GMT -5
S01E01/02 "Encounter at Farpoint": A middling "weird shit happens in space" Trek plot interspersed with some vaguely interesting Q stuff. Poorly paced. Data had this weird, creepy smile early on that is severely off-putting. Picard is introduced as not being able to deal with children. Like, literally, that's the first thing we learn about his character--he doesn't like kids. Which makes me think that initially they were really going to push the kids in space angle; thank god, that was dropped fairly quickly. Wesley...well, he'll be around for a while, so get used to it. Worth Watching? Not really, but it is the first episode, so...
S01E03 "Naked Now": Data's got a dick, and he knows how to use it. And also Tasha loves the men. The writers think it's very important that you know that these particular characters are heterosexual. And how the fuck was Data infected with he weird alcohol virus? Always bothers me. Worth Watching? Ha, nope.
S01E04 "Code of Honor": Holy shit I forgot how racist this is. And sexist. On the other hand Tasha has to fight with this cheap-looking spikey ball hand gauntlet thing and run around a jungle gym without looking ridiculous, which is pretty funny, I guess. Skip.
S01E05 "The Last Outpost": Introduction of the Ferengi, who, for a while there, where actually intimidating rather than comic relief. Okay, well not that intimidating. The show claims their closest earth analogue were 18th century "Yankee traders," though they seem to embody several, uh, less savory stereotypes. First "away team gets stranded on a hostile planet" plot of the TNG era. The T'Kon guardian guy is pretty cool. Eh.
S01E06 "Where No One Has Gone Before": Introduction of The Traveler. Introduction of Cranky Bearded Chief Engineer, who Wikipedia reminds me is the longest serving chief engineer of season 1. Typical "Wesley notices something, but everyone ignores him despite the fact that he's some sort of savant because he's also whiny and annoying" season 1 plot. Sure, I liked this one okay, actually.
S01E07 "Lonely Among Us": I saw this a couple of weeks ago, but I've already forgotten most of it. There are these lizard people and these rat people, and also Picard turns into an energy cloud, but it doesn't stick. Eh.
S01E08 "Justice": Permed Aryans wear skimpy costumes that look less "alluring" and more "nut-squeezingly uncomfortable." Wesley gets the death penalty for running on the grass, which sees appropriate. The show tries to turn it into some sort of Prime Directive type moral dilemma, but I didn't buy it. Skip.
S01E09 "The Battle": Introduction of the Picard Maneuver. (The in-universe version, not the thing where he tugs his shirt down. He couldn't have tugged his shirt down in season 1 because they're all still wearing those horrible spandex uniforms). The first season 1 episode that I would unreservedly recommend: decent mystery, well paced, and with a reasonably compelling villain with recognizable motives. Yeah.
S01E10 "Hide and Q": I like Q as a character, but the message of most of his episodes--to demonstrate that humans are just the most wonderful, most specialest species in the galaxy--tends to wear out its welcome pretty quick. This time they try to give Riker some characterization, but as it's still the bland, ersatz Kirk incarnation of the character, nothing really sticks. Comic highlights include the show's idea of what Wil Wheaton would look like 10 years in the future, as well as Tasha hitting on Picard for no discernible reason. Watch if you like Q.
S01E11 "Haven": It turns out Troi's engaged to some boring 80s guy named Wyatt, and also Lwaxana's there along with some cringy attempts at humor. And also there's something about a plague ship, and Wyatt has some sort of psychic connection with a boring 80s blonde woman on the ship, which the show might or might not explain but I wasn't paying enough attention to care. Skip.
S01E12 "The Big Goodbye": Ooh, the first episode set primarily in the holodeck. I love the holodeck episodes. The holodeck was pretty ingenious innovation--so much for the "hey, we happened to land on a planet that looks exactly like 1960s earth" Paramount backlot episodes of the TOS era. I love the idea that Picard enjoys reading cheap Raymond Chandler knock-offs. Yeah.
S01E13 "Datalore": Introduction of Lore, Noonien Soong, the Crystalline Entity, and more importantly Brent Spiner's ability to ham it up in completely different manner. Also, "Shut up Wesley!" Yeah.
S01E14 "Angel One": They visit a planet where the men act like women and the women act like men! This ironic role reversal will surely reveal much about gender dynamics in contemporary society. Commentary! Man, it took TNG a while to shake off the TOS-ness. Skip.
S01E15 "11001001": The beginning of Riker's transformation from ersatz Kirk into the womanizing dork we all know and love. In this case, he attempts to bone a holograph and tries his damndest to make playing jazz trombone look sexy. Worth watching purely for Patrick Stewart's line reading of "personal relaxation light." Well, maybe just watch the Youtube clip, the actual plot's pretty boring. Eh.
S01E16 "Too Short a Season": Some weird old-looking muppet gradually turns into a young man, and then dies. Some poor bland 80s actor attempts to act the hell out of his scenes, but all for naught. Skip.
S01E17 "When the Bough Breaks": Eugh, child actors. And Wesley pretends he's Mahatma fucking Gandhi. Couldn't the suspiciously human-looking dying aliens just ask for some fertilized embryos rather than kidnap, like, six children? Skip.
S01E18 "Home Soil": Weird shit happens in space. The "effects" are laughably terrible--the alien hivemind is represented by...some lights in a jar, but compelling enough for what it is. Eh.
S01E19 "Coming of Age": Introduction of Remmick, who appears to be giant dick, but actually it turns out he's not a dick, but actually actually it turns out he might have been a host for an evil parasitical alien all along? I dunno. Wesley attempts to get into the academy, but gets beat by a fish. Star Fleet's approach of testing four candidates at a time, but only accepting the top person from each cohort, regardless of how qualified the rest are, seems unfair and woefully counterproductive, but whatever. Wesley's love interest is really charming and cute, so I don't really get why she's so into Wesley. Skip.
S01E20 "Heart of Glory": Klingons, honor, Worf growling. Blah blah blah. There's kind of a cool scene where the Klingons improvise a blaster out of their belts and their boot tips. Eh.
S01E21 "Arsenal of Freedom": The gang gets trapped by a holograph on world populated entirely by office ficus plants and styrofoam rocks. Picard and Crusher share some good scenes, and the eventual solution to the mystery--just shut the damn thing off--is clever. Yeah.
S01E22 "Symbiosis": Drugs are bad, you guys, as Tasha cringily explains to Wesley. Features a more compelling Prime Directive dilemma than "Justice." Not bad. Yeah.
S01E23 "Skin of Evil": Oh no. Tasha's dead. Poor Denise Crosby never seemed comfortable on the show, and was apparently miserable at the prospect of another six seasons of saying "hailing frequencies are open, Captain." The actual plot is another TOS throwback, wherein the bad guy is essentially talked into submission. Would be utterly unremarkable were it not for the whole killing off a major character thing. In her posthumous holograph speech Tasha thanks Data, whom she fucked, for his "childlike wonder." Gross. Eh.
S01E24 "We'll Always Have Paris": Weird time shit happens in space. Pretty dull, and the show handles similar subject matter to greater effect later on. Hey, Picard's love interest co-wrote "California Dreamin'." Skip.
S01E25 "Conspiracy": The gnarliest gore of any Star Trek episode. Remmick's face gets blown off. Terrible puppets. Just too weird, and the "conspiracy" goes nowhere, ultimately. Skip, unless you want to see Star Trek do Alien.
S01E26 "The Neutral Zone": Wait, the last one wasn't the finale? Past humans show up to demonstrate how future humans are just the most awesome, most specialest species in the galaxy. But hey, Romulans! They're cool. Eh.
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Post by Lt. Broccoli on Feb 5, 2018 22:16:19 GMT -5
It's funny how often Data and Yar's boning session comes up in later episodes and movies.
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Post by The Spice Weasel on Feb 6, 2018 0:28:44 GMT -5
Conspiracy blew my 7th grade mind. I wanted to like TNG so bad, but that first season was such a slog. Even Skin of Evil, which the promos built up to be this epic episode, fell pretty flat. But Conspiracy, that's where it all clicked for me and I became invested. But yeah, the fact that the conspiracy doesn't really go anywhere and is never mentioned again hurts the episode a bit. I always forget that it isn't the season finale because it should have been.
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Post by liebkartoffel on Feb 6, 2018 0:56:42 GMT -5
Conspiracy blew my 7th grade mind. I wanted to like TNG so bad, but that first season was such a slog. Even Skin of Evil, which the promos built up to be this epic episode, fell pretty flat. But Conspiracy, that's where it all clicked for me and I became invested. But yeah, the fact that the conspiracy doesn't really go anywhere and is never mentioned again hurts the episode a bit. I always forget that it isn't the season finale because it should have been. It's definitely an exciting episode, which is more than you can say for...most of season 1, but the hard swerve into invasion of the body snatchers territory feels so off compared to the rest of the series, especially as the bugs were never heard from again. I've read a few places that the bugs were scrapped as too expensive and the comparatively cheaper effects-wise Borg were slotted into their place, which makes a great deal of sense. |
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Post by Prole Hole on Feb 11, 2018 11:18:46 GMT -5
The First Season Of TNG: Eh
I think what emerges most from that first season is the characters, or at least the actors that play some of them. Data, Picard and, surprisingly, Crusher (Dr, not Wesley) snap into place pretty quick, and if the character's not quite there yet, Jonathan Frakes's Riker is still a pretty likeable on-screen presence. Geordi takes waaaaay to long to come into focus (arguably he never does - Geordi stories are almost always the worst of the character pieces), and Yar and Troi struggle to get much of a handle on anything. The less said about Wesley, obviously, the better. Yet while not all the characters quite click, there's definitely a sense that they all actually belong on this spaceship together. That's a very nebulous thing, but it's definitely there, and it makes it a lot easier to put up with shit plot after shit plot. If the stories struggle, and they do, at least the actors and generally worth watching.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Feb 11, 2018 17:25:00 GMT -5
Hey, I'm midway through my first bi-lifely TNG watch-through, so I've seen all these fairly recently! Anyway, I think I liked Season 1 even less than you did; "The Big Goodbye" is the only episode I really liked, and even it's not a "good" episode so much as it's a fun one. I thought "Heart of Glory" was pretty alright too, I guess; if Michael Dorn weren't so bad at acting in Season 1, it might even be pretty good outside of the goofier elements like the Klingons-howling-over-dead-bodies shit. And I too, thought "Datalore" was one of the better Season 1 episodes, which I gather isn't an immensely popular opinion; the Crystalline Entity is stupid as fuck, but the episode gives Spiner, one of the show's only decent actors at this point, a lot to do, and "Shut up, Wesley!" is probably the best line of the first season. "The Neutral Zone" is very bad, but in a sense it's a more fitting season finale than "Conspiracy" in that it's technically the introduction to the Borg, which are a series antagonist whose story does go somewhere. As far as the cast goes, I thought Gates McFadden was really bad as Dr. Crusher in Season 1 (with the exception of "The Big Goodbye"), which I can't blame her for, since iirc it's rumored (if not explicitly confirmed) that the reason she left the show in Season 2 was because she was dealing with sexual harrassment from a producer (and possibly also Roddenberry himself?), and the show was absolute shit anyway, so it's not like it's even worth being well-acted at this point. Otherwise I'd agree with Prole; Stewart and Spiner are both pretty good, Frakes isn't very good but improves, Sirtis and Crosby never really get a handle on their characters in Season 1, Wheaton is an abomination, and much as I love LeVar Burton, he's not exactly a good actor per se and Geordi won't really be good until...um, that Season 4 episode where the Romulans kidnap him? And Michael Dorn hasn't really figured out how to act around his gruff deep Worf voice.
I'm curious as to whether I'll manage to beat you to the end of the series (I just finished Nineteen Eighty-Four 2 or whatever that one episode where Picard gets tortured by the Romulans was called, which I think is like ten or eleven episodes into Season 6). And by I'm curious as to whether I'll finish the show before you complete your rewatch, I mean, I'm going to be amused by the fact that I still haven't finished Season 6 by the time you're done.
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Post by liebkartoffel on Feb 11, 2018 21:28:05 GMT -5
S02E01 "The Child": Guinan's back! I'd forgotten how central Guinan and the Ten Forward scenes are to TNG's identity, and how much they help the show feel like something more than a TOS retread. But, on the flip side, we get Dr. Pulaski, who's just a female Bones. Except where McCoy and Spock had great chemistry as friendly adversaries, Pulaski just picks on Data, who's literally incapable of fighting back, for not fucking reason whatsoever. It's too bad, really, because I think Diana Muldaur is a good actress, and it's really nice to have someone who disagrees with...anyone in the first couple of seasons, but Pulaski mostly just comes across as a bully. As for the main plot, where Troi gets impregnated against her will by an alien--but it's fine, I guess, because she's sort of okay with it?--is both morally dubious and pretty boring. Eh.
S02E02 "Where Silence Has No Lease": Introducing Nagilum, who's basically Q, except a weird floating baby head thing. Typical TOS-style "crew encounters an arbitrary God-Being, who jerks them around a bit before letting them go" plot. This time, however, they try to shoehorn in a "we aren't so different, you and I" at the end--Nagilum denounces humanity for their cruelty and capriciousness, which is kind of rich, as he spent the past hour torturing the Enterprise crew and murdering a red shirt (more than Q ever did). But instead of telling him to fuck off, Picard observes that they're both curious, and isn't that something? No, it isn't. Skip.
S02E03 "Elementary My Dear Data": Legitimately one of my favorite episodes of the serious, even if it is a bit of a retread of the last holodeck episode (aren't they all). "Moriarty" is a great, sympathetic villain, and while Pulaski bullies Data some more--going so far as to deny that he's capable of conscious thought--at least she gets kidnapped for the latter half of the episode. Watch.
S02E04 "The Outrageous Okona": The strongest contender for worst episode of the series. The titular Okona is quite decidedly not as outrageous as promised, despite Troi literally describing him as a charming rogue. Nah, Okona's just a bit of a smug douche who, it turns out, doesn't even fuck around all that much. But Okona's not the problem. No, Joe fucking Piscopo is the problem. Christ. Hey, is that Teri Hatcher? Skip, dear god, Skip.
S02E05 "Loud as a Whisper": Kind of an interesting gimmick--deaf negotiator communicates telepathically through three helpers, each of whom represent different aspects of his personality--which turns icky when he insists on communicating with Troi with his "Libido." Confusing, also, because Sirtis plays it like Troi is profoundly uncomfortable with his advances, but then it turns out she's kind of...into it? Still, it's compelling enough when the negotiator's helpers are killed--yet more off-brand gore, as they're, uh, skeletonized--and he has to figure out how to make peace on his own. Sure.
S02E06 "The Schizoid Man": Another "Brent Spiner would like to act, please" episode, as a dying scientist downloads himself into Data. Troi's nebulous abilities continue to irk me, as she claims she can sense two distinct personalities in Data. What is she sensing? What makes up a personality? How is she able to sense a personality expressed in an artificial mind? Sure, if only for Spiner's eulogy. "To know him is to love him is to know him."
S02E07 "Unnatural Selection": Superhuman DNA and the flu combine to make a rapid aging plague. Something about antibodies, I don't know. Pulaski gets some characterization. Well, kinda. Basically, the show says "look, we know she's not all that likable, but she's a decent person, really." Wait a minute, aren't genetically modified people banned throughout the federation? All those eugenics wars? Whatever. Eh.
S02E08 "A Matter of Honor": Riker studies abroad aboard a Klingon Bird of Prey. A fish dude is bad at Starfleet, but saves the day in the end, because we can't have any actual internal conflict in Roddenberry-era TNG. Klingons do their Klingon thing. Good episode. Yeah.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 0:09:56 GMT -5
I've always wondered, how'd the show not get canned early on?
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Post by The Spice Weasel on Feb 12, 2018 0:19:15 GMT -5
I've always wondered, how'd the show not get canned early on? First run syndication. There was no network to pull the plug. Plus, their ratings were pretty consistent even when it sucked at the beginning. People were hard up for Trek. www.trektoday.com/articles/ratings_history.shtml |
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Post by liebkartoffel on Feb 12, 2018 12:34:22 GMT -5
The First Season Of TNG: EhI think what emerges most from that first season is the characters, or at least the actors that play some of them. Data, Picard and, surprisingly, Crusher (Dr, not Wesley) snap into place pretty quick, and if the character's not quite there yet, Jonathan Frakes's Riker is still a pretty likeable on-screen presence. Geordi takes waaaaay to long to come into focus (arguably he never does - Geordi stories are almost always the worst of the character pieces), and Yar and Troi struggle to get much of a handle on anything. The less said about Wesley, obviously, the better. Yet while not all the characters quite click, there's definitely a sense that they all actually belong on this spaceship together. That's a very nebulous thing, but it's definitely there, and it makes it a lot easier to put up with shit plot after shit plot. If the stories struggle, and they do, at least the actors and generally worth watching. As I alluded above with Frakes and Riker, his direction early on seems to have been "just do Kirk again," but after he finally grows the beard he morphs more into "stern, but pretty goofy when you get know him," which is a much better fit for Frakes. The writers' choices with Geordi baffle me. Making him chief engineer was a good idea, even if it came out of nowhere--and how bizarre was the first season's rotating engineers idea in the first place?--but the only characterization he gets after that is as a foil for Data and that he's unlucky in love. |
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Post by Prole Hole on Feb 12, 2018 13:13:28 GMT -5
liebkartoffel - Yes the choices made with Geordi were deeply strange (remember in Encounter At Farpoint where they basically have him doing jive talk at one point?). LeVar Burton is a decent actor but Geordi never, ever gets anything interesting to do (there's one, maybe two exceptions), and every time he's given material - usually deeply creepy romances - it never played to his strengths as an actor. Sure giving him the Chief Engineer role helps to give a bit of definition to the character, but I'm not convinced if they had... oh I dunno, made him Head Botanist or something the character would have been in any way different. At least Bland Bev got "Remember Me"... I do agree early Riker is too much of a Kirk clone (right down to having the middle initial T),
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Feb 12, 2018 14:33:38 GMT -5
Hijacking this thread to talk up my success at getting Owl Jr. into TNG. The trick has been making it a special thing he gets to do when his sister has to take a nap, because he's older now. The other day we actually did need him to take a nap because they were going to be up late for something and he said, "What?! No, I want to watch Star Trek with dad!". I had to conceal a little fist pump.
I'm cherry-picking good episodes instead of making him watch straight through though, because I am not a monster.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Feb 12, 2018 15:55:23 GMT -5
liebkartoffel - Yes the choices made with Geordi were deeply strange (remember in Encounter At Farpoint where they basically have him doing jive talk at one point?). LeVar Burton is a decent actor but Geordi never, ever gets anything interesting to do (there's one, maybe two exceptions), and every time he's given material - usually deeply creepy romances - it never played to his strengths as an actor. Sure giving him the Chief Engineer role helps to give a bit of definition to the character, but I'm not convinced if they had... oh I dunno, made him Head Botanist or something the character would have been in any way different. At least Bland Bev got "Remember Me"... I do agree early Riker is too much of a Kirk clone (right down to having the middle initial T), What about "Geordi Teaches a Borg How First Person Pronouns Work"? |
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Post by Prole Hole on Feb 12, 2018 16:20:27 GMT -5
liebkartoffel - Yes the choices made with Geordi were deeply strange (remember in Encounter At Farpoint where they basically have him doing jive talk at one point?). LeVar Burton is a decent actor but Geordi never, ever gets anything interesting to do (there's one, maybe two exceptions), and every time he's given material - usually deeply creepy romances - it never played to his strengths as an actor. Sure giving him the Chief Engineer role helps to give a bit of definition to the character, but I'm not convinced if they had... oh I dunno, made him Head Botanist or something the character would have been in any way different. At least Bland Bev got "Remember Me"... I do agree early Riker is too much of a Kirk clone (right down to having the middle initial T), What about "Geordi Teaches a Borg How First Person Pronouns Work"? Yes, what about it? (to be fair, that one might slightly qualify. I did say with one, maybe two exceptions. There's also "Geordi gets stuck on a planet with a Romulan for some reason" and "Geordi runs about in a glowy blue suit at the end of an episode. That's it. It seven seasons and four movies). |
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Post by Ben Grimm on Feb 13, 2018 9:22:06 GMT -5
Hijacking this thread to talk up my success at getting Owl Jr. into TNG. The trick has been making it a special thing he gets to do when his sister has to take a nap, because he's older now. The other day we actually did need him to take a nap because they were going to be up late for something and he said, "What?! No, I want to watch Star Trek with dad!". I had to conceal a little fist pump. I'm cherry-picking good episodes instead of making him watch straight through though, because I am not a monster. If he ever does something terrible, make him watch "The Outrageous Okona." You've then got that in your back pocket as a threat later. Downside: you might need to be in the room with "The Outrageous Okona" playing. |
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Feb 13, 2018 12:41:06 GMT -5
I just started watching DS9; would anyone be interested in me doing a similarish thread for that show? Granted, I've never seen DS9 before, so I don't really know much about what happens apart from "Eventually there's a war," but so far I'm liking it a lot more than Season 1 of TNG. Obviously, if liebkartoffel would rather me not make such a similar thread while he's doing his TNG review, I'd understand.
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Post by liebkartoffel on Feb 13, 2018 13:36:45 GMT -5
I just started watching DS9; would anyone be interested in me doing a similarish thread for that show? Granted, I've never seen DS9 before, so I don't really know much about what happens apart from "Eventually there's a war," but so far I'm liking it a lot more than Season 1 of TNG. Obviously, if liebkartoffel would rather me not make such a similar thread while he's doing his TNG review, I'd understand. No problem! I've love an opportunity to talk about the best of all Treks. |
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Post by liebkartoffel on Feb 13, 2018 13:42:09 GMT -5
Hijacking this thread to talk up my success at getting Owl Jr. into TNG. The trick has been making it a special thing he gets to do when his sister has to take a nap, because he's older now. The other day we actually did need him to take a nap because they were going to be up late for something and he said, "What?! No, I want to watch Star Trek with dad!". I had to conceal a little fist pump. I'm cherry-picking good episodes instead of making him watch straight through though, because I am not a monster. If he ever does something terrible, make him watch "The Outrageous Okona." You've then got that in your back pocket as a threat later. Downside: you might need to be in the room with "The Outrageous Okona" playing. Not only is Outrageous Okona just absolutely abysmal--an extended Jerry Lewis bit, really?--but it's a great example of how all over the place early TNG was, tonally. Not that a little variety is a bad thing, and TNG eventually gets really good at interspersing action-heavy episodes, with more philosophical and meditative episodes, with some light comedy, but "Okona" practically grabs you by the lapels and screams "WE ARE HAVING FUN NOW! THIS IS THE FUN EPISODE! HAVE FUN! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD HAVE FUN!!!!!!!" |
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Feb 13, 2018 14:33:00 GMT -5
I just started watching DS9; would anyone be interested in me doing a similarish thread for that show? Granted, I've never seen DS9 before, so I don't really know much about what happens apart from "Eventually there's a war," but so far I'm liking it a lot more than Season 1 of TNG. Obviously, if liebkartoffel would rather me not make such a similar thread while he's doing his TNG review, I'd understand. Not that season 1 doesn't have some real dire or low points or suffer some of the same "figuring out what this is" issues as TNG, it at least had a more modern Trek show template to crib from when starting out than TNG did. |
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Post by Ben Grimm on Feb 13, 2018 14:36:09 GMT -5
If he ever does something terrible, make him watch "The Outrageous Okona." You've then got that in your back pocket as a threat later. Downside: you might need to be in the room with "The Outrageous Okona" playing. Not only is Outrageous Okona just absolutely abysmal--an extended Jerry Lewis bit, really?--but it's a great example of how all over the place early TNG was, tonally. Not that a little variety is a bad thing, and TNG eventually gets really good at interspersing action-heavy episodes, with more philosophical and meditative episodes, with some light comedy, but "Okona" practically grabs you by the lapels and screams "WE ARE HAVING FUN NOW! THIS IS THE FUN EPISODE! HAVE FUN! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD HAVE FUN!!!!!!!" This is actually one of the things that makes me optimistic about the Orville - why it's all over the place, it's not quite as all over the place as TNG was, and seems to be finding its voice a bit more quickly. |
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Post by Prole Hole on Feb 13, 2018 15:40:38 GMT -5
I just started watching DS9; would anyone be interested in me doing a similarish thread for that show? Granted, I've never seen DS9 before, so I don't really know much about what happens apart from "Eventually there's a war," but so far I'm liking it a lot more than Season 1 of TNG. Obviously, if liebkartoffel would rather me not make such a similar thread while he's doing his TNG review, I'd understand. No problem! I've love an opportunity to talk about the best of all Treks. But... you won't be talking about Voyager! |
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Post by liebkartoffel on Feb 13, 2018 15:53:24 GMT -5
No problem! I've love an opportunity to talk about the best of all Treks. But... you won't be talking about Voyager!  |
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Post by Prole Hole on Feb 13, 2018 17:33:25 GMT -5
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Post by The Spice Weasel on Feb 13, 2018 20:14:53 GMT -5
I just started watching DS9; would anyone be interested in me doing a similarish thread for that show? Granted, I've never seen DS9 before, so I don't really know much about what happens apart from "Eventually there's a war," but so far I'm liking it a lot more than Season 1 of TNG. Obviously, if liebkartoffel would rather me not make such a similar thread while he's doing his TNG review, I'd understand. You can always get me to talk about DS9. It's my favorite Trek. The DS9 reviews at TOC are what got me posting there in the first place. I just did my biennial abbreviated rewatch of DS9. I've been trying to get my brother to watch it for years but he's busy as hell, so I put together a 70 episode essential DS9 viewing list for him. Don't know if he'll use it, but it was a fun exercise, and now I have the list for when I'm in the mood to watch. Edit: I did save all of the TNG & DS9 gimmick account posts before the Kinjaing. So, I can share the best of Rappin' Jake Sisco, Frakes, Sirtis, Garak, etc. as necessary.  |
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Post by liebkartoffel on Feb 13, 2018 21:00:51 GMT -5
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Post by liebkartoffel on Feb 18, 2018 19:14:11 GMT -5
S02E09 "Measure of a Man": I usually lump in season 2 with season 1 as the "Bad Trek" era. but honestly, if not for some absolute clunkers like "Okona" and "Shades of Gray," I think the season would and should be much more highly regarded. "Measure of a Man" is the first classic TNG episode--a compelling moral dilemma that doesn't rely upon some external threat, well-acted and written, and a strong message that doesn't devolve into patronizing preachy-ness. There are some odd contrivances: the local JAG judge is apparently so understaffed that she's allowed to force Data's commanding officers to act as both prosecutor and defense (which seems pretty damn unethical, but whatever), and Riker's argument amounts to nothing more than "Data's a machine and doesn't have blood and guts and stuff, therefore...not a person?" which I think would be obvious from the beginning. But, still a strong episode, and my first must watch.
S02E10 "The Dauphin": Wesley falls for a pretty girl and...oh christ, is this a Wesley-centric episode? Okay. Fine. Wesley falls in love with a pretty girl who is the future ruler and "Dauphin" of her world--apparently they're all huge medieval French history buffs--but alas, their love is doomed because she's actually some shape-shifting energy cloud thing. And also she's going to be the leader of her world and won't have time for some snot-nosed corporeal. Wil Wheaton tries his best, but he's forced to spend most of his time pestering the crew about love in Wesley Crusher's signature "socially retarded eagle scout" style. See also: Crusher's "what I can't understand is why anyone would become voluntarily dependent on a chemical" anti-drug PSA from season 1's "Symbiosis." Wesley Crusher's totally a Mormon, isn't he? I bet he's a Mormon. Features a pretty great scene between Riker and Guinan. "I dream of a galaxy where your eyes are the sky and the universe worships the night." Regardless: Skip.
S02E11 "Contagion": An Iconian virus infects and nearly cripples the ship. Introduction of the Iconians, Picard's love of archaeology, and--if I'm not mistaken--the first utterance of the phrase "tea Earl Grey hot." Also features a pretty tense and entertaining stand-off with the Romulans. Yeah.
S02E12 "The Royale": Riker, Worf, and Data get trapped in what looks suspiciously like a circa 1980s Reno casino, except it happens to be in the middle of a gas giant. The amusingly sardonic performance of the casino manager is a highlight, but an overall inessential episode. Plus, any Trek episode that ends with that shrugging "we may never the true answer" conclusion is bound to piss me off a little. Trek is, at its heart, a mystery series, and refusing to solve the mystery is just a cop out. Eh.
S02E13 "Time Squared": Is TNG required to have an "Enterprise gets trapped in some sort of time loop" episode every season? Picard meets a past (future?) version of himself, but they can't actually communicate because reasons. Eventually, everything is resolved because reasons. I don't know, these time travel episodes always fail to grip me. Eh.
S02E14 "The Icarus Factor": I think the first truly character-based, bottle-ish type episode of the series. No alien threats or ship malfunctions to contend with, just Riker dealing with his daddy issues and Wesley throwing Worf a pain party. A good demonstration of Trek's future thematic flexibility and willingness to go for depth rather than breadth. Plus the greatest anbo-jyutsu match I ever saw. Wait, did Pulaski fuck Riker's dad? Yeah.
S02E15 "Pen Pals": A prime directive dilemma episode, where Data has to intervene to save a little girls life. They eventually beam said little girl aboard the Enterprise and then proceed to wipe her memory which, uh, seems a little extreme. I mean, she's a little girl--who exactly is going to believe her? And I feel like erasing someone's memory is a violation on par with disobeying the prime directive, but whatever. Also some Wesley stuff. Learning the burden of command, blah, blah, blah. Eh.
S02E16 "Q Who": THE BORG! Q's back and it turns out he has a history with Guinan, who it turns out is much much than she seems. I like how they handled Guinan's introduction and the very gradual filling in of her backstory. From the viewer's perspective she just shows up one day, hangs around and tends bar for a while, and then we find out she's over two centuries old and has palled around with Q, among others. A very tense episode which manages to maintain a pervading sense of dread and hopelessness throughout, while cleverly concealing the fact that nothing all that much actually happens. Yeah.
S02E17 "Samaritan Snare": Arguably a subtle dig at both Starfleet's naivete and arrogance as the Enterprise comes to the aid of some poor stranded, intellectually undeveloped primitives, and get their Chief Engineer kidnapped for their trouble. Meanwhile, we learn for the first time of Picard's artificial heart and his fateful encounter with a Nausicaan knife. His scenes with Wesley are genuinely affecting, and Stewart's acting ability is much appreciated. Yeah.
S02E18 "Up the Long Ladder": The Enterprise encounters the cast of The Quiet Man. Hilarious hijinks tedious sterotypes ensue. Did I mention that thing about the "thematic flexibility" earlier? Yeah, took them a while to master that--and TNG arguably never mastered the comic relief episode. Oh, also there's a clone planet that's dying out because they lack sufficiently diverse genetic material, so naturally the solution is to force the Space Irish to have sex with the clones and it's all very gross and social Darwin-y. I mean, you think you could just ask for volunteers to donate sperm and eggs, but nope...Pulaski goes to great lengths to explain that everyone has to have three wives and three husbands and live in one giant sex colony whether they want to or not. Hilarious! Features the introduction of--if I'm not mistaken--the very first cable knit wool crop top. Skip.
S02E19 "Manhunt": Oh, another Lwaxana episode. She shows up, embarrasses Deanna, tortures/sexually pursues Picard, and wears weird clothes. Sound familiar? Picard is reduced to just sitting around in a holo-bar for half the episode. Otherwise nothing happens. Skip.
S02E20 "The Emissary": Worf gets a love interest for once, and in extremely Worfish fashion immediately comes on way too strong and fucks everything up. Hey, is that Diedrich Bader? Eh.
S02E21 "Peak Performance": An oily-haired alien with uncomfortable-looking facial protuberances leads the Enterprise in some war games. He's kind of an asshole, so Pulaski forces Data to play some milking machine game with him. Data...loses? Whaaat? Also some Ferengi show up. Good episode. Yeah.
S02E22 "Shades of Gray": Riker gets infected by an alien virus, which can only be treated with...lazily edited together clips of previous episodes. You can't do a clip show in the second season of a show. You just can't. I know there was a writers' strike on, and the Borg blew your budget, but you might as well not film the episode and throw money at worthier stories. Arguably a contender for worst episode of the series, but awarding a clip show with that dubious honor feels like cheating. I'd actually grown quite fond of Pulaski near the end there, and it's a shame that this was her send-off. Skip.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Feb 18, 2018 21:49:02 GMT -5
S02E09 "Measure of a Man": I usually lump in season 2 with season 1 as the "Bad Trek" era. but honestly, if not for some absolute clunkers like "Okona" and "Shades of Gray," I think the season would and should be much more highly regarded. "Measure of a Man" is the first classic TNG episode--a compelling moral dilemma that doesn't rely upon some external threat, well-acted and written, and a strong message that doesn't devolve into patronizing preachy-ness. There are some odd contrivances: the local JAG judge is apparently so understaffed that she's allowed to force Data's commanding officers to act as both prosecutor and defense (which seems pretty damn unethical, but whatever), and Riker's argument amounts to nothing more than "Data's a machine and doesn't have blood and guts and stuff, therefore...not a person?" which I think would be obvious from the beginning. But, still a strong episode, and my first must watch. S02E10 "The Dauphin": Wesley falls for a pretty girl and...oh christ, is this a Wesley-centric episode? Okay. Fine. Wesley falls in love with a pretty girl who is the future ruler and "Dauphin" of her world--apparently they're all huge medieval French history buffs--but alas, their love is doomed because she's actually some shape-shifting energy cloud thing. And also she's going to be the leader of her world and won't have time for some snot-nosed corporeal. Wil Wheaton tries his best, but he's forced to spend most of his time pestering the crew about love in Wesley Crusher's signature "socially retarded eagle scout" style. See also: Crusher's "what I can't understand is why anyone would become voluntarily dependent on a chemical" anti-drug PSA from season 1's "Symbiosis." Wesley Crusher's totally a Mormon, isn't he? I bet he's a Mormon. Features a pretty great scene between Riker and Guinan. "I dream of a galaxy where your eyes are the sky and the universe worships the night." Regardless: Skip. S02E11 "Contagion": An Iconian virus infects and nearly cripples the ship. Introduction of the Iconians, Picard's love of archaeology, and--if I'm not mistaken--the first utterance of the phrase "tea Earl Grey hot." Also features a pretty tense and entertaining stand-off with the Romulans. Yeah.
S02E12 "The Royale": Riker, Worf, and Data get trapped in what looks suspiciously like a circa 1980s Reno casino, except it happens to be in the middle of a gas giant. The amusingly sardonic performance of the casino manager is a highlight, but an overall inessential episode. Plus, any Trek episode that ends with that shrugging "we may never the true answer" conclusion is bound to piss me off a little. Trek is, at its heart, a mystery series, and refusing to solve the mystery is just a cop out. Eh.
S02E13 "Time Squared": Is TNG required to have an "Enterprise gets trapped in some sort of time loop" episode every season? Picard meets a past (future?) version of himself, but they can't actually communicate because reasons. Eventually, everything is resolved because reasons. I don't know, these time travel episodes always fail to grip me. Eh.
S02E14 "The Icarus Factor": I think the first truly character-based, bottle-ish type episode of the series. No alien threats or ship malfunctions to contend with, just Riker dealing with his daddy issues and Wesley throwing Worf a pain party. A good demonstration of Trek's future thematic flexibility and willingness to go for depth rather than breadth. Plus the greatest anbo-jyutsu match I ever saw. Wait, did Pulaski fuck Riker's dad? Yeah.
S02E15 "Pen Pals": A prime directive dilemma episode, where Data has to intervene to save a little girls life. They eventually beam said little girl aboard the Enterprise and then proceed to wipe her memory which, uh, seems a little extreme. I mean, she's a little girl--who exactly is going to believe her? And I feel like erasing someone's memory is a violation on par with disobeying the prime directive, but whatever. Also some Wesley stuff. Learning the burden of command, blah, blah, blah. Eh.
S02E16 "Q Who": THE BORG! Q's back and it turns out he has a history with Guinan, who it turns out is much much than she seems. I like how they handled Guinan's introduction and the very gradual filling in of her backstory. From the viewer's perspective she just shows up one day, hangs around and tends bar for a while, and then we find out she's over two centuries old and has palled around with Q, among others. A very tense episode which manages to maintain a pervading sense of dread and hopelessness throughout, while cleverly concealing the fact that nothing all that much actually happens. Yeah.S02E17 "Samaritan Snare": Arguably a subtle dig at both Starfleet's naivete and arrogance as the Enterprise comes to the aid of some poor stranded, intellectually undeveloped primitives, and get their Chief Engineer kidnapped for their trouble. Meanwhile, we learn for the first time of Picard's artificial heart and his fateful encounter with a Nausicaan knife. His scenes with Wesley are genuinely affecting, and Stewart's acting ability is much appreciated. Yeah.
S02E18 "Up the Long Ladder": The Enterprise encounters the cast of The Quiet Man. Hilarious hijinks tedious sterotypes ensue. Did I mention that thing about the "thematic flexibility" earlier? Yeah, took them a while to master that--and TNG arguably never mastered the comic relief episode. Oh, also there's a clone planet that's dying out because they lack sufficiently diverse genetic material, so naturally the solution is to force the Space Irish to have sex with the clones and it's all very gross and social Darwin-y. I mean, you think you could just ask for volunteers to donate sperm and eggs, but nope...Pulaski goes to great lengths to explain that everyone has to have three wives and three husbands and live in one giant sex colony whether they want to or not. Hilarious! Features the introduction of--if I'm not mistaken--the very first cable knit wool crop top. Skip. S02E19 "Manhunt": Oh, another Lwaxana episode. She shows up, embarrasses Deanna, tortures/sexually pursues Picard, and wears weird clothes. Sound familiar? Picard is reduced to just sitting around in a holo-bar for half the episode. Otherwise nothing happens. Skip.
S02E20 "The Emissary": Worf gets a love interest for once, and in extremely Worfish fashion immediately comes on way too strong and fucks everything up. Hey, is that Diedrich Bader? Eh.
S02E21 "Peak Performance": An oily-haired alien with uncomfortable-looking facial protuberances leads the Enterprise in some war games. He's kind of an asshole, so Pulaski forces Data to play some milking machine game with him. Data... loses? Whaaat? Also some Ferengi show up. Good episode. Yeah. S02E22 "Shades of Gray": Riker gets infected by an alien virus, which can only be treated with...lazily edited together clips of previous episodes. You can't do a clip show in the second season of a show. You just can't. I know there was a writers' strike on, and the Borg blew your budget, but you might as well not film the episode and throw money at worthier stories. Arguably a contender for worst episode of the series, but awarding a clip show with that dubious honor feels like cheating. I'd actually grown quite fond of Pulaski near the end there, and it's a shame that this was her send-off. Skip. Hell yeah, "Measure of a Man"! That episode was easily my favorite of the second season, in spite of, as you said, the contrived nature of having Riker be the prosecutor against one of his own officers (although, this does have the bright side of being probably the first episode where Frakes puts in a performance worthy of all that much praise). But outside of that episode and "Q Who" which is great because the Borg, I don't care for the latter two thirds of Season 2 as much as you did. I barely remember "Contagion" at all, I thought "The Icarus Factor" was embarrassingly bad, and while I'd agree that Stewart's performance does a really good job of giving us a tolerable Wesley subplot, I thought the A-plot of "Samaritan Snare" wasn't so great, and didn't handle "what if there was an alien species that was significantly less intelligent than humans" very well at all. On the other hand, I really liked "Time Squared"; the premise is just OK, but I really liked Stewart's performance, Picard's reluctance to accept that Future Picard is also him and would have had such poor judgment makes for a pretty compelling episode, and it stands in contrast to all the moments of "Isn't Picard so perfect?" where he takes on some of Kirk's less interesting characteristics. Re: "Shades of Gray", I wouldn't say that it's the worst episode of TNG, but I would consider it to be the laziest episode of any TV show I've ever seen that wasn't Tommy Wiseau's Neighbors, which doesn't really count because it was made by Tommy Wiseau. |
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Post by liebkartoffel on Feb 19, 2018 0:56:48 GMT -5
Hell yeah, "Measure of a Man"! That episode was easily my favorite of the second season, in spite of, as you said, the contrived nature of having Riker be the prosecutor against one of his own officers (although, this does have the bright side of being probably the first episode where Frakes puts in a performance worthy of all that much praise). But outside of that episode and "Q Who" which is great because the Borg, I don't care for the latter two thirds of Season 2 as much as you did. I barely remember "Contagion" at all, I thought "The Icarus Factor" was embarrassingly bad, and while I'd agree that Stewart's performance does a really good job of giving us a tolerable Wesley subplot, I thought the A-plot of "Samaritan Snare" wasn't so great, and didn't handle "what if there was an alien species that was significantly less intelligent than humans" very well at all. On the other hand, I really liked "Time Squared"; the premise is just OK, but I really liked Stewart's performance, Picard's reluctance to accept that Future Picard is also him and would have had such poor judgment makes for a pretty compelling episode, and it stands in contrast to all the moments of "Isn't Picard so perfect?" where he takes on some of Kirk's less interesting characteristics. Re: "Shades of Gray", I wouldn't say that it's the worst episode of TNG, but I would consider it to be the laziest episode of any TV show I've ever seen that wasn't Tommy Wiseau's Neighbors, which doesn't really count because it was made by Tommy Wiseau. I gave "Icarus" points for A) being better than I remembered, and B) willing to devote an entire episode to low-key character work, and I'm always looking for signs of the show breaking free from the TOS model. But despite my positive review-let, I really wavered between "eh" and "yeah." I wouldn't go so far as to call it embarrassingly bad, but it's very...80s prime time soap opera-y (and really, what the hell is going on with that title?). "Time Squared"...I don't know, it's just that I remember there being so many "weird time loop" episodes that I can't keep them all straight, and in this case I don't think the show ever adequately explained what was going on. Plus having future-Picard unable to communicate because he's "out of phase" is an annoying contrivance. "Samaritan Snare" is another one I go back and forth on, because on the one hand, it fills in a pretty integral part of Picard's back story, and I really enjoy just watching Picard kicking back and having a chat, so if I'm compiling a list of episodes that people really should see to understand what TNG is all about, "Samaritan" would be on it. On the other hand, I agree with you that the A-plot is none too special, though the scene where the bridge crew tries to clue Geordi into their plan--"you will never attain the 24th level of awareness"--is pretty funny. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Feb 19, 2018 1:18:12 GMT -5
Hell yeah, "Measure of a Man"! That episode was easily my favorite of the second season, in spite of, as you said, the contrived nature of having Riker be the prosecutor against one of his own officers (although, this does have the bright side of being probably the first episode where Frakes puts in a performance worthy of all that much praise). But outside of that episode and "Q Who" which is great because the Borg, I don't care for the latter two thirds of Season 2 as much as you did. I barely remember "Contagion" at all, I thought "The Icarus Factor" was embarrassingly bad, and while I'd agree that Stewart's performance does a really good job of giving us a tolerable Wesley subplot, I thought the A-plot of "Samaritan Snare" wasn't so great, and didn't handle "what if there was an alien species that was significantly less intelligent than humans" very well at all. On the other hand, I really liked "Time Squared"; the premise is just OK, but I really liked Stewart's performance, Picard's reluctance to accept that Future Picard is also him and would have had such poor judgment makes for a pretty compelling episode, and it stands in contrast to all the moments of "Isn't Picard so perfect?" where he takes on some of Kirk's less interesting characteristics. Re: "Shades of Gray", I wouldn't say that it's the worst episode of TNG, but I would consider it to be the laziest episode of any TV show I've ever seen that wasn't Tommy Wiseau's Neighbors, which doesn't really count because it was made by Tommy Wiseau. "Contagion" is an episode I seem to never remember. Then I watch it and it's actually pretty good. But then a month later I forget it again. I believe this has happened at least 3 times. |
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Post by The Spice Weasel on Feb 19, 2018 1:25:16 GMT -5
Watching Measure of a Man now. The star base is Regula 1 from Wrath of Kahn. Or have they used that model multiple times and I just never noticed?
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