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Post by chalkdevil 😈 on Aug 26, 2019 10:08:55 GMT -5
Oh. It's Return of the Jedi then.
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Post by ganews on Aug 26, 2019 10:55:45 GMT -5
I appreciate that a full half of this trailer is, "Hey, remember all these movies that you obsessed over/loved/enjoyed/tolerated? You're not gonna quit now, are ya? Look, we made yet another lightsaber mod and everything!"
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Post by chalkdevil 😈 on Aug 26, 2019 11:39:38 GMT -5
I appreciate that a full half of this trailer is, "Hey, remember all these movies that you obsessed over/loved/enjoyed/tolerated? You're not gonna quit now, are ya? Look, we made yet another lightsaber mod and everything!" I'm calling fantasy/force vision sequence on that bit. Really just a scene that exists to look cool in the trailer. Also, they are going to need to justify the need for a hinged double lightsaber. Also also, I get the feeling Rose is dead. She is no where in the promotional materials. I saw pictures of the actress at the D23 panels or whatever, but she is character that the trolls vocal fans hated, so she might as well be killed off to give Finn something to do. Also, then he can go meet up with that new character that's in the trailers that is a better fit for him if you really want to avoid race mixing to make sure you don't upset the horrifying racist man-babies vocal fans. Sorry, I have concerns about Disney freaking out over the reaction to Last Jedi and it's making me pessimistic.
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patbat
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Post by patbat on Aug 26, 2019 11:43:12 GMT -5
I appreciate that a full half of this trailer is, "Hey, remember all these movies that you obsessed over/loved/enjoyed/tolerated? You're not gonna quit now, are ya? Look, we made yet another lightsaber mod and everything!" I'm calling fantasy/force vision sequence on that bit. Really just a scene that exists to look cool in the trailer. Also, they are going to need to justify the need for a hinged double lightsaber. Also also, I get the feeling Rose is dead. She is no where in the promotional materials. I saw pictures of the actress at the D23 panels or whatever, but she is character that the trolls vocal fans hated, so she might as well be killed off to give Finn something to do. Also, then he can go meet up with that new character that's in the trailers that is a better fit for him if you really want to avoid race mixing to make sure you don't upset the horrifying racist man-babies vocal fans. Sorry, I have concerns about Disney freaking out over the reaction to Last Jedi and it's making me pessimistic. Oh, 1000%. We only thought Force Awakens was a rehash; this is going to be "turkey sandwiches a full week after Thanksgiving"-level.
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Post by Powerthirteen on Aug 26, 2019 12:12:14 GMT -5
"Sith Rey" is definitely a rehash of Luke meeting "Vader" with his own face on Dagobah.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2019 15:49:04 GMT -5
JJ Abrams thought process "if you thought darth maul's lightsaber was stupid"
Still not as dumb as the Inquisitor's lightsaber from Rebels though.
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Aug 26, 2019 19:48:55 GMT -5
]Wasn't she like 9 when they left her on Jakku? If they were going to mindwipe her time at the Academy, couldn't they also have mindwiped the trauma of her 'parents' leaving? Is she Darth Revan?Step aside gender-flipped Anakin clone, this is my new favorite wild-ass theory, esp. now that we’ve got the dark Rey trailer stuff (though I agree it’s probably just a kewl for the trailer premonition type thing).
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Post by Nudeviking on Aug 26, 2019 20:08:01 GMT -5
Jumping in a bit late, sorry. But count me among the people kind of sad that they may be undoing some of the great stuff that TLJ did. I loved what that story did with both Rey and Kylo. With Rey, I loved that she *wasn't* a Skywalker. That her parents were just average people. With Kylo, I loved that the film allowed him to kill the master and take control, so that all the choices being made afterwards were truly his. I thought that was genuinely thrilling. I was very excited to see what the next movie would bring from him. But, if this movie is going to make Rey some long lost Jedi kid, and say Kylo Ren is being controlled by someone else.... Blech. My beef with putting the emphasis on the Skywalker family is that it totally ignores that the Jedi order took in force-sensitive kids from all over the galaxy and didn't allow them to marry. Since the order was able to continue for so long, it stands to reason that force-sensitive people are a randomly occurring thing, regardless of lineage. So it really doesn't need to have some amazing familial explanation at all. We didn't care about any of the other parents of Jedi so why should we care about Rey's? It felt like a gigantic red herring all the way back to Episode 7. Was there ever a rule that they couldn't fuck though? Maybe the Jedi order were like an 80s hair metal band. They toured the galaxy righting wrongs and bedding the hottest groupies. All those "randomly occurring" force-sensitive people? I bet half of them were born (insert the gestation period of random Star Wars alien race here) after Kit Fisto and Mace Windu came to town.
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Post by Powerthirteen on Aug 26, 2019 20:36:39 GMT -5
Also, I hope that Kylo is in fact a bad guy to the end, but if he isn’t and they do redeem him (and let’s be real, this is the kind of franchise that probably will), what if HE is the “rising” Skywalker of the title and all of our concerns that Rey becomes a Skywalker were a rabbit trail?
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Post by Powerthirteen on Aug 26, 2019 20:38:32 GMT -5
My beef with putting the emphasis on the Skywalker family is that it totally ignores that the Jedi order took in force-sensitive kids from all over the galaxy and didn't allow them to marry. Since the order was able to continue for so long, it stands to reason that force-sensitive people are a randomly occurring thing, regardless of lineage. So it really doesn't need to have some amazing familial explanation at all. We didn't care about any of the other parents of Jedi so why should we care about Rey's? It felt like a gigantic red herring all the way back to Episode 7. Was there ever a rule that they couldn't fuck though? Maybe the Jedi order were like an 80s hair metal band. They toured the galaxy righting wrongs and bedding the hottest groupies. All those "randomly occurring" force-sensitive people? I bet half of them were born (insert the gestation period of random Star Wars alien race here) after Kit Fisto and Mace Windu came to town. ”The Jedi take in random Force-sensitive kids” was predated by “the Force is strong in my family - I have it, my father has it, my sister has it” so there’s plenty of proof for either, or for both to be possible, like wizarding ability in Harry Potter.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2019 20:51:47 GMT -5
She's Palpatine's daughter lmao
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Post by Nudeviking on Aug 26, 2019 21:04:54 GMT -5
Was there ever a rule that they couldn't fuck though? Maybe the Jedi order were like an 80s hair metal band. They toured the galaxy righting wrongs and bedding the hottest groupies. All those "randomly occurring" force-sensitive people? I bet half of them were born (insert the gestation period of random Star Wars alien race here) after Kit Fisto and Mace Windu came to town. ”The Jedi take in random Force-sensitive kids” was predated by “the Force is strong in my family - I have it, my father has it, my sister has it” so there’s plenty of proof for either, or for both to be possible, like wizarding ability in Harry Potter. Thinking about it more there was not really any rule that Force-sensitive people had to become Jedi was there? There could totally have been men and women and non-binary beings who have all kinds of Force power but are like, "Nah, I'm just going to sell droids, or be a smuggler, or repair speeder bikes, or sell weird edible frog monsters out of a cart on Tattooine," particularly in the pre-Imperial Eras.
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Post by Hachiman on Aug 27, 2019 1:17:09 GMT -5
”The Jedi take in random Force-sensitive kids” was predated by “the Force is strong in my family - I have it, my father has it, my sister has it” so there’s plenty of proof for either, or for both to be possible, like wizarding ability in Harry Potter. Thinking about it more there was not really any rule that Force-sensitive people had to become Jedi was there? There could totally have been men and women and non-binary beings who have all kinds of Force power but are like, "Nah, I'm just going to sell droids, or be a smuggler, or repair speeder bikes, or sell weird edible frog monsters out of a cart on Tattooine," particularly in the pre-Imperial Eras. What bugs me here is that Disney already had an episode of the canon-tv show "Rebels" which showed that one of the jobs of the Inquisitors was to find and capture force-sensitive kids. So they are definitely shown to be randomly occurring in this universe. Meanwhile the old-EU did have Jedi families running around during the Old Republic-era so there is plenty of non-canon evidence of force-sensitivity as genetic. But the whole "Skywalker Bloodline" thing seems dumb since there have been a whopping total of 4 of them , starting from Anakin being born out of the force, which would seem to be the really big deal, but which the movies have never brought up again. Not to mention that only like 2 of them completed their training. I'm sure there were plenty of kids that the Jedi missed (like Anakin) or whose parents wouldn't give their kids away to some weird space cult. And it seems like an untrained force-sensitive being could still make a living using some of their skills (such as Anakin and his pod-racing). I remember reading about Disney making some sort of team to define all of the canon so its really sticks out to me that they are still pushing the whole bloodline thing when there's plenty of other explanations. Also, has no-one pointed out that Rey is wielding training-chopsticks as her red lightsaber? Because those are training chopsticks!
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Post by Nudeviking on Aug 27, 2019 1:39:24 GMT -5
Thinking about it more there was not really any rule that Force-sensitive people had to become Jedi was there? There could totally have been men and women and non-binary beings who have all kinds of Force power but are like, "Nah, I'm just going to sell droids, or be a smuggler, or repair speeder bikes, or sell weird edible frog monsters out of a cart on Tattooine," particularly in the pre-Imperial Eras. What bugs me here is that Disney already had an episode of the canon-tv show "Rebels" which showed that one of the jobs of the Inquisitors was to find and capture force-sensitive kids. So they are definitely shown to be randomly occurring in this universe. Meanwhile the old-EU did have Jedi families running around during the Old Republic-era so there is plenty of non-canon evidence of force-sensitivity as genetic. But the whole "Skywalker Bloodline" thing seems dumb since there have been a whopping total of 4 of them , starting from Anakin being born out of the force, which would seem to be the really big deal, but which the movies have never brought up again. Not to mention that only like 2 of them completed their training. I'm sure there were plenty of kids that the Jedi missed (like Anakin) or whose parents wouldn't give their kids away to some weird space cult. And it seems like an untrained force-sensitive being could still make a living using some of their skills (such as Anakin and his pod-racing). I remember reading about Disney making some sort of team to define all of the canon so its really sticks out to me that they are still pushing the whole bloodline thing when there's plenty of other explanations. Also, has no-one pointed out that Rey is wielding training-chopsticks as her red lightsaber. Because those of training chopsticks! Do people outside of Asia know about training chopsticks? I never saw them until I came out here.
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Post by Hachiman on Aug 28, 2019 3:46:56 GMT -5
Do people outside of Asia know about training chopsticks? I never saw them until I came out here. They sold them at Daiso in the US and most Asian grocery stores I went to had them. Now that I think of it, a Jedi in the Clone Wars cartoon named Pong Krell had the same lightsaber model, but it should be noted that he had 4 arms and he was kind of a dumbass.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Aug 31, 2019 22:08:28 GMT -5
Also, I hope that Kylo is in fact a bad guy to the end, but if he isn’t and they do redeem him (and let’s be real, this is the kind of franchise that probably will), what if HE is the “rising” Skywalker of the title and all of our concerns that Rey becomes a Skywalker were a rabbit trail? I halfway kind of hope this is true. Because it would be less bad than Rey being a secret Skywalker. At least we already know Kylo is a Skywalker. And while his character has been very interesting so far, I feel like we don't really know WHY he is doing anything, other than he just wants power. Not to give the prequels too much credit, but at least Anakin had a reason for wanting more power. So I feel like there is more room to maneuver Kylo's character.
Edited: Oh, and this teaser doesn't really do anything for me. At this point, I find the flash of the "evil" Rey to be ridiculous. And I'm not too excited for a Rey/Kylo lightsaber duel, as I doubt any lightsaber scene could top the Throne Room scene in TLJ. And I find it hard to believe either of those characters would kill the other in a duel.
I did love the John Williams music, though.
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Post by liebkartoffel on Aug 31, 2019 23:55:44 GMT -5
Also, I hope that Kylo is in fact a bad guy to the end, but if he isn’t and they do redeem him (and let’s be real, this is the kind of franchise that probably will), what if HE is the “rising” Skywalker of the title and all of our concerns that Rey becomes a Skywalker were a rabbit trail? I halfway kind of hope this is true. Because it would be less bad than Rey being a secret Skywalker. At least we already know Kylo is a Skywalker. And while his character has been very interesting so far, I feel like we don't really know WHY he is doing anything, other than he just wants power. Not to give the prequels too much credit, but at least Anakin had a reason for wanting more power. So I feel like there is more room to maneuver Kylo's character. He's doing things because something something Darth Vader. Duh.
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Post by Angry Raisins on Sept 2, 2019 14:45:56 GMT -5
As someone who has enjoyed individual moments in the recent Star Wars films, but been unimpressed with the lack of a meaningful story arc, I think Kylo Ren comes closest to having the latter. In TFA he's very obviously trying to be Vader and doing a rather hit-and-miss job, in TLJ he seems to very consciously move beyond and reject that and decide to think more about what he really wants, but still without doing the obvious (and ironically Vader-like) redemption thing. One of my favourite things in that film is Ren pragmatically ordering the walkers to fire on Luke; I feel like TFA Ren would have desperately wanted a 1-on-1 duel more than anything.
True, TLJ is annoyingly fond of doing "You thought this mattered? Well it doesn't!" for the sake of it (Luke, Snoke, the survival of most of the good guys), so this might be more of the same and not lead to anything (and I wish Ren vs. the First Order military was more of a thing, rather than him just taking over). But it at least feels like potentially an interesting ongoing character story, whose conclusion I'm more curious about than anything else in the 3rd film.
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Sept 2, 2019 22:42:20 GMT -5
Beyond the obvious trolly “I’m a Trek fan, of course I liked TLJ’s approach” the two things I really liked were:
1. Ren behavior, going for full destroy the past, the-power-I-wield-is-the-future nihilism, which feels real to me wrt how stuff like the dark side and various imperial orders are depicted.
2. Showing that the whole model of the rebellion pretty much sucks from an insurgency pov (they act a lot more like the Confederates than they do like, say, the North Vietnamese, or even George Washington’s Continental Army, or if you want to go for contemporary relevancy the Taliban). I was looking forward to the First Order being defeated in a more sort of social-level story, as opposed to the few actors (incl. a literal princess) turning it basically a battle between two elites from different branches of a religious order. Star Wars, as a franchise, might not be especially suited for that kind of storytelling (and again my lack of investment in the franchise makes me less able to judge) but I liked the feint in that direction.
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Post by Angry Raisins on Sept 6, 2019 12:40:40 GMT -5
Beyond the obvious trolly “I’m a Trek fan, of course I liked TLJ’s approach” the two things I really liked were: 1. Ren behavior, going for full destroy the past, the-power-I-wield-is-the-future nihilism, which feels real to me wrt how stuff like the dark side and various imperial orders are depicted. 2. Showing that the whole model of the rebellion pretty much sucks from an insurgency pov (they act a lot more like the Confederates than they do like, say, the North Vietnamese, or even George Washington’s Continental Army, or if you want to go for contemporary relevancy the Taliban). I was looking forward to the First Order being defeated in a more sort of social-level story, as opposed to the few actors (incl. a literal princess) turning it basically a battle between two elites from different branches of a religious order. Star Wars, as a franchise, might not be especially suited for that kind of storytelling (and again my lack of investment in the franchise makes me less able to judge) but I liked the feint in that direction. I have a cynical suspicion that "don't focus too much on specific people/the Resistance is everywhere!" is primarily driven by Disney's desire to keep making Star Wars films indefinitely.
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Post by Hachiman on Sept 8, 2019 21:41:53 GMT -5
Beyond the obvious trolly “I’m a Trek fan, of course I liked TLJ’s approach” the two things I really liked were: 1. Ren behavior, going for full destroy the past, the-power-I-wield-is-the-future nihilism, which feels real to me wrt how stuff like the dark side and various imperial orders are depicted. 2. Showing that the whole model of the rebellion pretty much sucks from an insurgency pov (they act a lot more like the Confederates than they do like, say, the North Vietnamese, or even George Washington’s Continental Army, or if you want to go for contemporary relevancy the Taliban). I was looking forward to the First Order being defeated in a more sort of social-level story, as opposed to the few actors (incl. a literal princess) turning it basically a battle between two elites from different branches of a religious order. Star Wars, as a franchise, might not be especially suited for that kind of storytelling (and again my lack of investment in the franchise makes me less able to judge) but I liked the feint in that direction. 1. Definitely. The Imperials and the dark-side users aren't really trying to have a vision for the future beyond being in charge. 2. Empire Strikes back made the exact same point. Even by ROTJ, the Rebels seemingly fielded everything they had and still were comically outnumbered and won by sheer luck as much as anything else. I have long argued that Star Wars is really just fantasy dressed up in sci-fi trappings. This isn't to say that fantasy can't have real-world commentary, as much as to say that the space battles are simply stand-ins for sea battles and open-field battles where a scrappy force is able to defeat proper army and live happily ever all. Both ANH and ROTJ ended on these notes that everything was wrapped up and those notes then had to be undone by subsequent movies showing it takes more than a victory or two to win the war(and also because the story simply needed to continue). In general, even leaving out the force, the internal logic of Star Wars doesn't hold up under much scrutiny and the best stories in the franchise are often pretty broad and basic stories.
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Post by Nudeviking on Sept 8, 2019 21:55:39 GMT -5
Beyond the obvious trolly “I’m a Trek fan, of course I liked TLJ’s approach” the two things I really liked were: 1. Ren behavior, going for full destroy the past, the-power-I-wield-is-the-future nihilism, which feels real to me wrt how stuff like the dark side and various imperial orders are depicted. 2. Showing that the whole model of the rebellion pretty much sucks from an insurgency pov (they act a lot more like the Confederates than they do like, say, the North Vietnamese, or even George Washington’s Continental Army, or if you want to go for contemporary relevancy the Taliban). I was looking forward to the First Order being defeated in a more sort of social-level story, as opposed to the few actors (incl. a literal princess) turning it basically a battle between two elites from different branches of a religious order. Star Wars, as a franchise, might not be especially suited for that kind of storytelling (and again my lack of investment in the franchise makes me less able to judge) but I liked the feint in that direction. In Rogue One we did see the Rebels (or a splinter group of the Rebels at least) act like actual insurgents. That bombing on a random patrol of Imperials on Jedha was some modern insurgency shit and that Rebels cartoon also had main characters that were somewhere between the North Vietnamese and Robin Hood (at least in the early seasons before they joined up with the Rebels proper). I think due to the scale of Star Wars the movies don't really lend themselves to showing that sort of conflict in any real meaningful way since they're ultimately A Hero's Journey when all is said and done and anything that doesn't tie into that is just fodder for other forms of media (comics, novels, video games, TV shows, etc.).
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Post by Hachiman on Sept 9, 2019 0:08:15 GMT -5
I think due to the scale of Star Wars the movies don't really lend themselves to showing that sort of conflict in any real meaningful way since they're ultimately A Hero's Journey when all is said and done and anything that doesn't tie into that is just fodder for other forms of media (comics, novels, video games, TV shows, etc.). Yeah, its similar to "Lord of the Rings" where the books make it clear that there's been fighting going on all over the map forever, but for the most part it doesn't matter to the main story.
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Post by Nudeviking on Sept 9, 2019 0:13:26 GMT -5
I think due to the scale of Star Wars the movies don't really lend themselves to showing that sort of conflict in any real meaningful way since they're ultimately A Hero's Journey when all is said and done and anything that doesn't tie into that is just fodder for other forms of media (comics, novels, video games, TV shows, etc.). Yeah, its similar to "Lord of the Rings" where the books make it clear that there's been fighting going on all over the map forever, but for the most part it doesn't matter to the main story. I actually had a bit about Borimir's bro doing ranger shit in my original reply and how it only matters when when it brushes up against what the Heroes are doing but I cut it out mostly because I couldn't remember the dude's name (Forimir?).
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Oct 22, 2019 7:55:53 GMT -5
So they just came out and bluntly said “last chance to see all your space buddies! Give your money suckers!” in the last trailer, eh?
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Oct 22, 2019 19:29:48 GMT -5
The idea of a nostalgic re-tread of ROTJ minus the Jabba stuff does…not seem great to me.
Also between this and Maul somehow still being alive, does no one who falls down a bottomless shaft stay dead? At least we know why they never put decent railings around those things, though.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Oct 22, 2019 21:16:03 GMT -5
The idea of a nostalgic re-tread of ROTJ minus the Jabba stuff does…not seem great to me. Also between this and Maul somehow still being alive, does no one who falls down a bottomless shaft stay dead? At least we know why they never put decent railings around those things, though. I think it’s slightly interesting that they haven’t actually shown Palpatine in any of the trailers. Holding out hope that he’s only a ghost.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 9:26:15 GMT -5
The idea of a nostalgic re-tread of ROTJ minus the Jabba stuff does…not seem great to me. Also between this and Maul somehow still being alive, does no one who falls down a bottomless shaft stay dead? At least we know why they never put decent railings around those things, though. I think it’s slightly interesting that they haven’t actually shown Palpatine in any of the trailers. Holding out hope that he’s only a ghost. I dunno, the next to last shot in this trailer sure looked like Rey looking at Palpatine in his chair from the Death Star 2. (Maybe it floats now?) But hey, Rose Tico is actually in this one at least! And I am pleased to see Billy Dee wearing Don Glover's Lando colors!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 18:16:33 GMT -5
My theory is that Palpatine has been a force presence possessing or influencing Kylo Rey this whole time.
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Post by Hachiman on Oct 23, 2019 20:22:08 GMT -5
I'm torn, but I hope they don't go with some mystical route. The old-expanded universe as well as the Clone Wars series and Rebels was full of stuff like. While it was often nice to see the force and its applications more fleshed out (and we haven't seen much of that on the big screen), I usually rolled my eyes at the idea that Palpatine or some other sorceror-type force user was just everywhere doing everything. Also, if they are planning something like the some of those really mystical episodes of the Clone Wars or Rebels, I feel like it would break the movies since they have never really gone in that direction.
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