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Post by oppy all along on Apr 23, 2019 23:35:12 GMT -5
IF YOU SCROLL DOWN THERE WILL BE SPOILERS!BY WHICH I MEAN WORDS AND SENTENCES REVEALING KEY PLOT POINTS FROM THE MOVIE 'AVENGERS: ENDGAME!'Okay we've reached a point where if you somehow spoil yourself after all this I can't be held accountable. ONE MORE TIME SPOILERS!
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oppy all along
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Who's been messing up everything? It was oppy all along
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Post by oppy all along on Apr 23, 2019 23:43:37 GMT -5
Rapid response: Oh shit I really fucking loved that.
Like it's being repeated that it's a 'love letter' to people who have been following the MCU all these years. And I'm one of those people. And I feel very loved right now.
Yup, I teared up a few times. I laughed a few times. I did 'oh I understand what they're referencing' a whole bunch of times. And there's a sequence towards the end of the movie which is stand up and cheer out loud at the screen fucking hype. (but of course I didn't actually do that because I'm a considerate moviegoer).
I will have more thoughts when I've had more time to process, but for now I have to shout out a few things which I have to give Marvel all the credit for not putting in the trailers because it was so fucking hype seeing them.
1) CAPTAIN AMERICA WIELDING MJOLNIR
2) PROFESSOR HULK
3) PEPPER POTTS AS 'RESCUE'
4) Nebula's performance, turns out it is possible to act through all those prosthetics.
5) OH FUCK THAT WAR SCENE WHERE LITERALLY THE WHOLE MCU COMES OUT TO FIGHT THANOS AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
6) Black Widow and Hawkeye having a 'who gets to sacrifice themselves to save the mission' fight.
7) Thor as Fat Jesus and forming the Asguardians of the Galaxy
8) FOR REAL THAT WAR SCENE THOUGH
9) Everything Captain Marvel did
10) THE WHOLE DAMN MCU SHOWING OUT TO TAKE DOWN THANOS IN THE AFOREMENTIONED WAR SCENE
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2019 7:26:11 GMT -5
I'm actually really glad those spoilers that leaked last week turned out to be true. I'm genuinely excited for Endgame, where I wasn't for the past few avengers films(Ultron, Civil War, and Infinity War). This has the kind of weird Marvel shit from the comics I want, plus Cap finally wielding Mjolnir. Really though, I'm most pumped about Professor Hulk. Really glad I went ahead and bought tickets for opening weekend.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Apr 27, 2019 7:40:10 GMT -5
There's a terrible quality youtube clip of the Cap/Mjolnir scene and I suspect I'll have watched it a hundred or so times by the time the weekend is up.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 11:29:50 GMT -5
There's a terrible quality youtube clip of the Cap/Mjolnir scene and I suspect I'll have watched it a hundred or so times by the time the weekend is up. I'm not watching the movie and yet I've watched the same terrible quality youtube clip of the Wanda scene about a hundred times now, great glowy eyed face acting from Elizabeth Olsen, she's criminally underrated and has such presence and flair, love her. |
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Post by liebkartoffel on Apr 27, 2019 16:21:19 GMT -5
Loved it. Couldn't have imagined them doing a better job pulling all 22 movies together into a satisfying conclusion. Extremely spoilery thoughts (like it hasn't actually been that spoilery so far, but major spoilers up ahead, if for some reason you were expecting non-movie-ruining spoiler discussion until now) below:
*Captain Marvel plays a surprisingly small role--little more than a cameo, really. I'd kind of assumed she would be more central to the plot, but it was very much "got to go universe needs me see you in the third act bye." Understandably not a whole lot for Doctor Strange and the rest to do either, but I had always assumed this would be the original six's (+Captain Marvel's) story.
*Before the movie a staff member came in and asked us make sure we didn't bring up any spoilers as we were walking out as there would likely be people in the lobby waiting to see the next showing, at which point some dipshit shouted out "IRON MAN DIES!" followed by "JUST KIDDING, HE DOESN'T REALLY DIE." I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in assuming that he honestly didn't know and was making a dumbass joke, but man, he must have spent most of the movie praying that Iron Man wouldn't die. Whoops.
*So...the Black Widow movie's in production, right? Guess we'll have to wait to see if it's a prequel or if Nat gets resurrected somehow. Her death seemed pretty damn definitive, though.
*Related, but I think it's pretty clear that the Russos didn't think much of Whedon's awkward Hulk-Widow romance. We got just enough of a reaction out of Banner-Hulk to acknowledge that they were an item, but nothing more.
*The time travel shenanigans made next to no sense, and they did run into a more than a couple of straight up paradoxes by my count, despite Banner-Hulk's reassurances. I was racking my brain trying to remember if Loki and the tesseract really do mysteriously disappear after the events of the first Avengers. I know he escapes at some point, but, look, there have been a lot of movies since the first Avengers. Anyway, if so, that's a nice touch.
*It amused me greatly that it took them that long to figure they could just steal/ask for as many Pym particles as they wanted, seeing as how they have time machines.
*I'd like to thank Fat Thor for finally giving me a viable cosplay option. I'd also like to thank the Russos for keeping Thor fat throughout the rest of the movie rather than give him some magical ab-restoring Asgardian mead or something. No fan service for you, suckers! You'll have to make do with Banner-Hulk's green torso and the lingering shots of Cap's ass.
*I'm quite surprised the entire planet didn't just immediately descend into chaos after half the global population disappears, but everyone really seemed to keep their act together--there are elaborate memorials and support groups and everything. I guess Ant-Man walks past a couple of dilapidated houses, but that seems to be the extent of the damage. Also, if Thanos really did kill half of all "living creatures" shouldn't half the trees and grass and dogs and cats and stuff be gone as well? Didn't really look like it.
*Likewise, there are going to be a lot of awkward conversations when everyone reappears and the people who have moved on the five years since have to explain their new spouses, etc.
*Loved that the original six got their own special credits with the signatures and everything, but I hadn't really been paying attention during the earlier credits and didn't notice that they'd covered everyone but the original six so far, so I laughed when Jeremy Renner's first came up and I assumed he alone was getting a weirdly loving tribute.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 16:59:57 GMT -5
My theory on why Captain Marvel didn't have a huge role is the fact her movie was being made so close to Endgame, and after Infinity War. Probably just couldn't think of a great way to integrate her, when a lot of this stuff was planned out before her movie came out.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 17:14:53 GMT -5
Brie Larson said she filmed Endgame before Captain Marvel
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Who's been messing up everything? It was oppy all along
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Post by oppy all along on Apr 27, 2019 17:57:53 GMT -5
Regarding time travel shenanigans, in the main continuity Loki is arrested and brought to Asgard and only escapes during the events of Thor: The Dark World. So that goes into the time travel theory that the movie espouses - every other time travel movie is stupid and you don't change the future by going into the past, you just create branching realities. So Loki in the MCU reality still goes along the same way until Thanos kills him in Infinity War, but in one of the branching realities (MCU sneakily bringing in the multiverse) Loki escapes with the Tesseract after the events of The Avengers.
But then Steve Rogers goes into the past and comes out in the same reality, which... does that mean he just changed so little that everything else happened almost identically? Or is the MCU-verse now been shunted into another reality?
Still makes more sense than Pym particles. If Ant-Man is super strong because he condenses the force of a normal sized man into a tiny body, then why is Giant-Man super-strong as well? Shouldn't he be a giant wimp because he's using the force of a normal sized man in a giant body?
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Post by Ben Grimm on Apr 27, 2019 18:10:17 GMT -5
Regarding time travel shenanigans, in the main continuity Loki is arrested and brought to Asgard and only escapes during the events of Thor: The Dark World. So that goes into the time travel theory that the movie espouses - every other time travel movie is stupid and you don't change the future by going into the past, you just create branching realities. So Loki in the MCU reality still goes along the same way until Thanos kills him in Infinity War, but in one of the branching realities (MCU sneakily bringing in the multiverse) Loki escapes with the Tesseract after the events of The Avengers. I think the Loki show which they've been a mix of vague and evasive about is going to end up being the story of how Endgame-escape Loki makes it to the main MCU universe. We're getting him back as a villain. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 18:20:10 GMT -5
Loki is definitely going to be in the main universe, the dude has an infinity stone after all. Can use some kind of magic excuse.
For me the weird plot hole would be that what happens to housing with billions of people returning to earth? Like what if someone moved into your apartment after the dusting and now you are back? Also, just convenient that all of Peter's classmates were dusted. What if Ned wasn't dusted, he would have been in college by now.
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Who's been messing up everything? It was oppy all along
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Post by oppy all along on Apr 27, 2019 18:38:35 GMT -5
Another theory about time travel and Captain America, what if he lived in his own splinter reality? Captain America goes back in time, marries Peggy, tells everyone about HYDRA and Bucky, and then gets in touch with Hank Pym and lets him know when and where he needs to return to his own time to let Winter Soldier and Falcon know.
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Post by liebkartoffel on Apr 27, 2019 18:53:41 GMT -5
Loki is definitely going to be in the main universe, the dude has an infinity stone after all. Can use some kind of magic excuse. For me the weird plot hole would be that what happens to housing with billions of people returning to earth? Like what if someone moved into your apartment after the dusting and now you are back? Also, just convenient that all of Peter's classmates were dusted. What if Ned wasn't dusted, he would have been in college by now. Sorry, minor pet peeve, but that's not a plot hole. That's just...something that happened in the movie. But yeah, judging by the Far From Home trailer, at the very least Peter, Ned, MJ, and Flash just happened to be dusted. Convenient, as you say. |
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Post by liebkartoffel on Apr 27, 2019 18:55:06 GMT -5
Regarding time travel shenanigans, in the main continuity Loki is arrested and brought to Asgard and only escapes during the events of Thor: The Dark World. So that goes into the time travel theory that the movie espouses - every other time travel movie is stupid and you don't change the future by going into the past, you just create branching realities. So Loki in the MCU reality still goes along the same way until Thanos kills him in Infinity War, but in one of the branching realities (MCU sneakily bringing in the multiverse) Loki escapes with the Tesseract after the events of The Avengers. I think the Loki show which they've been a mix of vague and evasive about is going to end up being the story of how Endgame-escape Loki makes it to the main MCU universe. We're getting him back as a villain. "Screw redemption arcs--he's our one good villain!" |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 19:22:40 GMT -5
I think the Loki show which they've been a mix of vague and evasive about is going to end up being the story of how Endgame-escape Loki makes it to the main MCU universe. We're getting him back as a villain. "Screw redemption arcs--he's our one good villain!" That's left alive. Killmonger still best villain. |
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Post by WKRP Jimmy Drop on Apr 27, 2019 20:01:25 GMT -5
I was mostly very pleased; the issues I have are all time-travel related. I mean, I am SO VERY HAPPY that Steve lived (man I thought he was a goner for sure as soon as he started fighting with Mjolnir*), and i LOVE PEGGY** and I LOVE PEGGY AND STEVE together, but there is no way in hell you can convince me that Steven Grant Rogers would
a) be able to keep his mouth shut and himself out of the public eye (during the 1970s particularly)
b) not tell Peggy immediately about HYDRA in SHIELD
c) not go pull Bucky out of HYDRA's possession
because while I do believe he'd be unable to resist building a life with Peggy with the opportunity right there, I don't believe he'd, y'know, change his entire character. There is the possibility, I suppose, that no-one knew who Captain America actually was, other than the Commandos, Peggy, Howard, and members of the military, so just being there with his face could not be a problem, but yeah. That stubborn, socially-minded son-of-a-bitch would not keep his mouth shut about Vietnam, Watergate, Iran-Contra, etc etc.
(Also..uh...last I checked, the serum keeps him from aging like normal people. I mean I guess we don't know what year he came from, and the MCU has never defined the full effects of the serum, but in the absence of a definition, Imma assume comics canon applies.)
Then I can't find a point at which he'd have been able to pick up the shield, nor does Thor Lebowski taking off with Mjolnir during The Dark World work, unless Steve took it back at some point? Wait, did he have it with him when he went back, so he would have returned it to the Dark World timeline with the Infinity Stone?
My actual theory of the "married Peggy and aged" development is that, with the Sam & Bucky TV show on the horizon, and them likely not being able to afford Evans, they had to come up with an explanation why Steve wouldn't be around. "Oh he's off on a separate mission" would only work a couple of times before it became super-lame and obvious.
So I don't think the time-travel quite hangs together - although I did absolutely love the whole sneaking-around-during-the-first-Avengers-movie segment. Steve Rogers getting exasperated with his own aggressiveness was perfect, as were Clint and Natasha drinking in the background after defeating Loki.
But I was so SO relieved that Nebula didn't die, because I love her. And I love Now-the-King Valkyrie and her pegasus! And RESCUE PEPPER! And Korg in Taika's pineapple outfit! And Hiroyuki Sanada! And Tom Holland remains perfect as Peter Parker.
*STEVE WAS FIGHTING WITH MJLONIR!!!!!!!! I CALLED IT ok I called it happening in Age of Ultron, I WAS JUST EARLY OK I BELIEVE IN CAPTAIN AMERICA also I love what bros hm and Thor are
**JARVIS!!
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Post by Ben Grimm on Apr 27, 2019 21:03:56 GMT -5
(Also..uh...last I checked, the serum keeps him from aging like normal people. I mean I guess we don't know what year he came from, and the MCU has never defined the full effects of the serum, but in the absence of a definition, Imma assume comics canon applies.) I mean, he doesn't age like normal people. Setting aside the ice time, he would have been around 120 by then, and looked like he was in his 70s. |
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Post by oppy all along on Apr 27, 2019 21:15:41 GMT -5
A wild Howard the Duck appears! |
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Apr 27, 2019 22:26:32 GMT -5
SPOILER ALERT: I’ve heard that Ant-Man gets up to more of his unrealistic hijinks in this movie, so anyone trying to boycott the character Ant-Man for all his bullshit might want to skip this one.
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Who's been messing up everything? It was oppy all along
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Post by oppy all along on Apr 28, 2019 9:09:36 GMT -5
Watched Endgame for a second time. As I come down from my Marvel high, I might chip in with more random story beats that occur to me from this massive fucking movie that caps off the most expansive universe ever put to film. (James Bond has 26 movies to the MCU's 22, but the MCU has branching franchises and continuity. Plus, give it two more years and it'll pass the 26 mark.)
The Comic Tragedy of Thor
For all the MCU, Thor has grappled with who he is supposed to be. The ace, the king, the hero with golden locks and a magic hammer and a mandate to go forth and be awesome. And his arc from the movies has been chipping away at that. In Thor: Dark World he loses his mother, in Thor: Ragnarok he loses his father, his hammer, and his homeland, in Avengers: Infinity War he loses everything else in his life. So he finds purpose in shattering grief, forges a new hammer, and shows up in Wakanda at the end bellowing "BRING ME THANOOOOOOOOS!" And in that final moment he is the one man standing between Thanos successfully wiping out half of the life in the universe. Take everything else away and he's still the man. When everything goes to shit you need the one man who can take the shot with the universe weighing on his shoulders. You need Thor.
And he misses.
It is such a complete and total failure of what he is supposed to be that Thor fucking crumbles. The remnants of his people wash up in (presumably) Norway and form a small town pitifully called 'New Asgard', the remnants of a mighty empire reduced to a fishing village. And the God of Thunder becomes perhaps the most human character of all. He becomes a traumatised broken man binge-drinking and playing Fortnite with his idiot mates (sorry Korg). When reminded of his heroic destiny, a dishevelled and huggable Thor sobs to Hulk that he's not that man anymore. It takes endless prodding and the promise of beer to push him into even attending the mission briefing. And when it comes time to engage with his old life and sees everything that he's lost in past Asgard, he breaks again and runs away. It's funny because Chris Hemsworth is funny and comedy is tragedy.
But it wouldn't be a narrative (well, a mildly happy one) if he didn't come back. He sees his mother for the first time since Thor: The Dark World and perhaps for the first time opens up about the crushing feelings of inadequacy and loss that come with blowing your one shot to save the universe. He summons Mjolnir and sees that despite everything, he is still worthy. And when Thanos crosses his path again, he doesn't break. And when Thanos is defeated he hands over the title he was supposed to hold to someone who's frankly actually suited for the role and forms the Asguardians of the Galaxy. Of which Star-Lord is totally still in charge of. No, really.
Also, he may be homely, but when he summons Mjolnir and Stormbreaker and he gives himself a magic lightning makeover, he's rocking the bulky viking look. You know when he has the armour with the classic cape and his hair with the top knot and his beard is plaited? Put the man on a heavy metal album cover.
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Post by Celebith on Apr 28, 2019 9:32:38 GMT -5
I magically managed to avoid almost all spoilers for this so:
1. We 'always' knew that Steve was going to be worthy of Mjolnir, but when he actually started smacking Thanos around with it, the excitement in the theater was palpable. Lots of 'quiet cheering and fist pumping.
2. When the soundtrack dropped out while Pepper was telling Tony it was okay to stop fighting, you could feel the crowd sobbing. I don't think I've heard that many people cry at a movie since the end of Wolverine.
3. It was kinda awesome that when (if I'm remembering the scene correctly) Danvers shows up to take the Infinity Gauntlet from Peter, every major female hero is there to help her, and I haven't heard a peep out of the MRA brigades about it yet. Maybe it's just a side effect of the whole 'avoiding all the spoilers' thing, but I hope it's because we've finally ground the bastards down.
It did have a bit of a Return of the King, too-many-endings feel after the battle, but I liked Tony's line about 'the destination is part of the journey' in there, so it didn't feel too bad.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 11:09:24 GMT -5
HOLY MOTHERFORKING SHIRTBALLS!
That...was fucking incredible! Just...so utterly perfect as a capper to everything up to this point. These thoughts are in no sort of order.
Oppyu's thoughts on Thor perfectly covered that arc. Including when they got to Thanos after the Snap, and Thor just fucking cut his head off! Didn't miss THAT time...too bad it was too late.
When Cap took up Mjolnir, my theater fucking CHEERED. LOUDLY! And it was AWESOME!
Tony realizing he'd figured out time travel... "SHIT!" ...and then immediately realizing what that could mean for him and his family. And Pepper telling him to do it anyway, because of course he had to.
Opening the movie with Clint...oh fucking hell, you're gonna make me start tearing up immediately, movie? Yep.
The Asgard palace guards chasing Rocket yelled "GET THAT RABBIT!" ROFLMAO!!!
So many times I thought someone was gonna get straight-out murdered. They really did a good job of upping the stakes.
Seriously, even knowing it was coming in some form, that last battle. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Thanos' completely ineffective headbutt!
And then Strange lifting his one finger...fuck, I'm pretty sure I was crying from that point all the way through the end of the movie.
Just...I could go on for hours at this point. I got home from the movie at like 1:30am and had to force myself to go to sleep instead of coming here and chatting all night about it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 15:27:56 GMT -5
I didn't cry during the movie(I do actually cry at TV and Movies, recently cried from a mediocre episode of LOST), but what almost got me was when Happy was telling morgan that he would get all the cheeseburgers she would ever need. That was the most emotional part of the movie for me.
Also, something that has been bugging me. Black Widow's hair was terrible. I get the whole roots growing out because she just stopped caring for her own well being since the snap, but 5 years is a long time, her hair would be much longer than what it was to not have cut it since Infinity War.
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Post by pairesta on Apr 28, 2019 15:41:25 GMT -5
I really liked it. It went places I didn't think it would go. I loved the opening of them just deciding fuck it we'll kill Thanos and that's what they did, by golly. Lots of misty-eyed moments: Hawkeye's family at the beginning (gasps from the crowd), Nat, Steve at the end. A well-deserved victory lap, a last hurrah with these characters, giving each of them their own moment.
Really good crowd. I lost my shit when Cap got Mjolnir.
Oh so many time paradox questions though, yeah.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Apr 28, 2019 15:58:05 GMT -5
Why, if you just get to make up your own rules, would you open yourself to all the questions that just bringing everyone back five years later invites?
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Apr 28, 2019 16:24:18 GMT -5
That being said, fuck, it was really good and I haven’t been this successfully manipulated by Marvel since at least Avengers 1
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Post by sarapen on Apr 28, 2019 18:01:57 GMT -5
Large chunks of it was fanservice but damn if it wasn't enjoyable fanservice. I thought we'd get Anthony Hopkins but I guess Rene Russo made more sense for Thor's story. Also I think this is the most characterization that Thor's mom has ever gotten. And I find it kind of funny that Natalie Portman just got a non-speaking role for 5 seconds of screen time.
Anyway, having read the comics oh so long ago, I expected everything to return to just the way it was before Thanos, but I hadn't accounted for the fact that human actors grow old and eventually die. A story that goes nowhere over 50 years of installments is fine when characters are just drawings but the real actors are too strongly linked to their roles for the audience to easily accept a recasting. Maybe give it 10 or 20 years before we see teen Iron Man or Red Hulk or Jane Foster, Goddess of Thunder. Really hope we get Kid Loki sometime soon, though.
Also I can't tell if the heroes were changing the past or hopping into a parallel universe where they fucked with the time stream, but I'm trying not to think about it too hard. I guess Gamora's running around in her future now?
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Post by liebkartoffel on Apr 28, 2019 18:05:28 GMT -5
Why, if you just get to make up your own rules, would you open yourself to all the questions that just bringing everyone back five years later invites? The reason within the movie is that just turning back the clock to five years ago would wink Tony's kid out of existence. |
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Post by Lt. Broccoli on Apr 28, 2019 18:11:56 GMT -5
I feel like this will make less and less sense the more I think about it, so I'm just not going to think about it too much at the moment. In the meantime, FUCK YEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS
(even though some kid at school told my son Iron Man dies, and then my son told me, because he's incapable of keeping a secret)
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Post by liebkartoffel on Apr 28, 2019 18:28:22 GMT -5
Large chunks of it was fanservice but damn if it wasn't enjoyable fanservice. I thought we'd get Anthony Hopkins but I guess Rene Russo made more sense for Thor's story. Also I think this is the most characterization that Thor's mom has ever gotten. And I find it kind of funny that Natalie Portman just got a non-speaking role for 5 seconds of screen time. Anyway, having read the comics oh so long ago, I expected everything to return to just the way it was before Thanos, but I hadn't accounted for the fact that human actors grow old and eventually die. A story that goes nowhere over 50 years of installments is fine when characters are just drawings but the real actors are too strongly linked to their roles for the audience to easily accept a recasting. Maybe give it 10 or 20 years before we see teen Iron Man or Red Hulk or Jane Foster, Goddess of Thunder. Really hope we get Kid Loki sometime soon, though. Also I can't tell if the heroes were changing the past or hopping into a parallel universe where they fucked with the time stream, but I'm trying not to think about it too hard. I guess Gamora's running around in her future now? I'm still not entirely certain about all the logistics, but Banner-Hulk establishes that in the MCU you definitively cannot go back to the past in order to change the present, because altering your own present means that you cease to be the person who went back in time to change the present in the first place. That's how they skirt the grandfather paradox and nip options like "just kill baby Thanos" in the bud. Therefore (I think?) the mere act of time traveling creates a parallel universe. So you could go back and kill a baby Thanos, but the Thanos in your timeline would still exist because he has to exist, because then you wouldn't have been inspired to go back in time in the first place. That's also how they get around stuff like Nebula killing herself without suffering any repercussions; she can only kill a parallel version of herself, because going back in her own timeline would mean that she wouldn't exist to kill herself in the first place. So this is all to say that Gamora is running around in a future, but not her future, because the Gamora in the prime timeline has been dead since 2018. |
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