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Post by liebkartoffel on Jul 28, 2022 13:52:35 GMT -5
Again, I swear I'll get round to the last two episodes (Life Stuff still getting in the way) but FWIW 1.09 easily the worst episode of the season, derivative trash. And there are redshirts that got a better death than Tasha Yar, so that's not the bar we should be judging against. AQoM - Not as clever as it thinks it is. Hate the timestone / monks conceit more and more. An in-episode Yesterday's Enterprise That Isn't As Good As Yesterday's Enterprise doesn't wow, but Mount is fucking great, and there's lots of fantastic individual moments. They just don't a-mount (heh) to very much. Anson Mount is a better Captain Kirk than Paul Wesley, and has the Kirk swagger in exactly the way Wesley doesn't. It's not that Wesley isn't Shatner, it's that he isn't even Pine. I get that they want to take the character in a slightly different direction but you don't get to do that with legacy characters - that's the whole point. If you want to go in a different direction, fine, but then cast Wesley as Captain Wetham of the USS Uncharismatic and have done by, and get someone else to play a role that actually needs an actor to go big. I'm acutely aware of just how good Shatner was in the role because I'm rewatching the Classic Series for Talking Trek To You, and, wow, he's not the best actor ever but fuck me if he can fill the TV screen. Wesley barely even seems to fill his uniform. And if you do want to take the character in a different direction don't have another character spend two minutes talking him up as the most brash, devil-may-care captain in the fleet. I think it's telling that in practically every picture you find of Shatner-as-Kirk he's either smiling or looks like he's on the verge of smiling.  He's confident. He has shit figured out. He knows something you don't. Pine's self-assuredness is a little more on the douchey side, but he still has presence. Wesley, meanwhile, just looks uncomfortable in his own skin (or, less charitably, like he's constantly attempting to hold in a fart).  He's the guy you get to play the bland stuffed-shirt foil to the brash hero - the guy whose over-cautiousness gets him killed in the second act to raise the stakes. To be fair, however, the writing hems in Kirk as well. The whole point of the episode is that Pike's approach is catastrophically wrong, but he's the hero, so he can't come across as weak or foolish, and Kirk has to be right, but he can't be an asshole about it because, again, they can't risk making Pike look too bad. So there are a lot of awkward conversations where "loose cannon" Kirk tepidly suggests taking a more aggressive course of action (in the least aggressive manner possible), getting shot down by Pike, and then fading back into the background. |
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Post by Prole Hole on Jul 28, 2022 17:18:11 GMT -5
Again, I swear I'll get round to the last two episodes (Life Stuff still getting in the way) but FWIW 1.09 easily the worst episode of the season, derivative trash. And there are redshirts that got a better death than Tasha Yar, so that's not the bar we should be judging against. AQoM - Not as clever as it thinks it is. Hate the timestone / monks conceit more and more. An in-episode Yesterday's Enterprise That Isn't As Good As Yesterday's Enterprise doesn't wow, but Mount is fucking great, and there's lots of fantastic individual moments. They just don't a-mount (heh) to very much. Anson Mount is a better Captain Kirk than Paul Wesley, and has the Kirk swagger in exactly the way Wesley doesn't. It's not that Wesley isn't Shatner, it's that he isn't even Pine. I get that they want to take the character in a slightly different direction but you don't get to do that with legacy characters - that's the whole point. If you want to go in a different direction, fine, but then cast Wesley as Captain Wetham of the USS Uncharismatic and have done by, and get someone else to play a role that actually needs an actor to go big. I'm acutely aware of just how good Shatner was in the role because I'm rewatching the Classic Series for Talking Trek To You, and, wow, he's not the best actor ever but fuck me if he can fill the TV screen. Wesley barely even seems to fill his uniform. And if you do want to take the character in a different direction don't have another character spend two minutes talking him up as the most brash, devil-may-care captain in the fleet. I think it's telling that in practically every picture you find of Shatner-as-Kirk he's either smiling or looks like he's on the verge of smiling. He's confident. He has shit figured out. He knows something you don't. Pine's self-assuredness is a little more on the douchey side, but he still has presence. Wesley, meanwhile, just looks uncomfortable in his own skin (or, less charitably, like he's constantly attempting to hold in a fart). He's the guy you get to play the bland stuffed-shirt foil to the brash hero - the guy whose over-cautiousness gets him killed in the second act to raise the stakes. To be fair, however, the writing hems in Kirk as well. The whole point of the episode is that Pike's approach is catastrophically wrong, but he's the hero, so he can't come across as weak or foolish, and Kirk has to be right, but he can't be an asshole about it because, again, they can't risk making Pike look too bad. So there are a lot of awkward conversations where "loose cannon" Kirk tepidly suggests taking a more aggressive course of action (in the least aggressive manner possible), getting shot down by Pike, and then fading back into the background. Yup. Those pictures are a perfect illustration liebkartoffel Only one of them looks like they belong there, and it's not the one shot in the 21st century. |
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Jul 29, 2022 18:18:10 GMT -5
This is not current at all (and I am very far behind on Trek as a whole, if I ever bother to catch up) but I just remembered this gallery of uniform episodes from the run-up to TNG that tried to balance 1987 style with Roddenberry horniness:
You can see the disappointment in Gene’s face at how boring/covering those jumpsuits are.
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ABz B👹anaz
Grandfathered In 
This country is (now less of) a shitshow.
Posts: 1,992
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Post by ABz B👹anaz on Aug 26, 2022 23:36:37 GMT -5
HOORAY, new Lower Decks!
Great episode to start the season. Zefram Cochrane! Boimler rebuffing hot grape gals! The hot sauce gag!
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Post by liebkartoffel on Aug 27, 2022 8:03:20 GMT -5
HOORAY, new Lower Decks! Great episode to start the season. Zefram Cochrane! Boimler rebuffing hot grape gals! The hot sauce gag! Boimler's family being raisin farmers rather than winemakers was such a great touch. I also loved how Tuvok and, randomly, Kelsey's Grammer's character from TNG's "Cause and Effect" saved the day off-screen. |
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Post by liebkartoffel on Aug 30, 2022 14:12:43 GMT -5
Wrapping up yet another TNG rewatch and I always forget how much of a slog season 7 is--just episode after episode of...eh.
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Post by Prole Hole on Aug 30, 2022 15:34:49 GMT -5
Wrapping up yet another TNG rewatch and I always forget how much of a slog season 7 is--just episode after episode of...eh. Yup - really out of dilithium gas. There's a few highlights - "Parallels", "Eye Of The Beholder", surprisingly, and of course "All Good Things..." And there's a few lowlights - "Crusher Candle Ghost Sex", "Masks", "Interface". But so much of it, yeah, is just acres of bland, beige, meh. I love TNG, and even some of the duds have something to recommend them ("Emergence" makes not fucking sense whatsoever, but at least it's committed to its own general sense of what-the-fuckery) but I'm personally glad there was never a Season Eight. Sometimes enough is... enough. |
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Post by Ben Grimm on Aug 30, 2022 15:52:22 GMT -5
Wrapping up yet another TNG rewatch and I always forget how much of a slog season 7 is--just episode after episode of...eh. Yup - really out of dilithium gas. There's a few highlights - "Parallels", "Eye Of The Beholder", surprisingly, and of course "All Good Things..." And there's a few lowlights - "Crusher Candle Ghost Sex", "Masks", "Interface". But so much of it, yeah, is just acres of bland, beige, meh. I love TNG, and even some of the duds have something to recommend them ("Emergence" makes not fucking sense whatsoever, but at least it's committed to its own general sense of what-the-fuckery) but I'm personally glad there was never a Season Eight. Sometimes enough is... enough. Genre shows have a history of running out of gas after season 5 (assuming they make it that long), and having weak 6th and 7th seasons. The number of shows that didn't succumb to this to at least some extent can probably be counted on one hand. |
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Post by liebkartoffel on Sept 2, 2022 6:46:58 GMT -5
"A psychic baby, a sentient computer, and a volcano? You guys ever hear of overkill?"
"IT PROVIDES A SYSTEM OF CHECKS AND BALANCES!"
I love Lower Decks.
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Post by liebkartoffel on Sept 2, 2022 16:34:13 GMT -5
I'd love to sit down and watch "Genesis" with an evolutionary biologist who had never seen the episode before.
"Wait...did Data just suggest that Picard was 'de-evolving' into a pygmy marmoset? And the cat turned into a fucking iguana?! Are you fucking kidding me? Why did you make me watch this?"
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Post by Desert Dweller on Sept 3, 2022 1:25:15 GMT -5
Amusingly, on another site, a woman was posting recently that she was watching TNG Season 7 and discovered that she maybe never saw this season. She was loving it! Like, she posted that she loved "Genesis" and "Journey's End" and then asked me "Is all of Season 7 this good?"
It's a great reminder that everyone views Trek differently.
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Post by Prole Hole on Sept 3, 2022 12:14:18 GMT -5
Amusingly, on another site, a woman was posting recently that she was watching TNG Season 7 and discovered that she maybe never saw this season. She was loving it! Like, she posted that she loved "Genesis" and "Journey's End" and then asked me "Is all of Season 7 this good?" It's a great reminder that everyone views Trek differently. Well, the correct answer to the question, "is all of Season 7 this good?" is yes. Yes, Season 7 is exactly that good. Unfortunately. |
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Post by liebkartoffel on Sept 3, 2022 13:50:50 GMT -5
Amusingly, on another site, a woman was posting recently that she was watching TNG Season 7 and discovered that she maybe never saw this season. She was loving it! Like, she posted that she loved "Genesis" and "Journey's End" and then asked me "Is all of Season 7 this good?" It's a great reminder that everyone views Trek differently. I actually have soft a spot for Genesis, as it scared the shit out of me as a kid and unlike most of the rest of the season at least it has some oomph. I would in no way describe Genesis as a "good" Trek episode, but it is entertaining in a turn your brain off sort of way. Journey's End...nope, nothing redeemable about that one. Okay, I respected the choice of having Wesley wash out of Starfleet, but then they had to ruin it by having him run off to be the Galaxy's Most Special Boy with the Traveler instead of actually experiencing failure. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Sept 3, 2022 15:15:01 GMT -5
Amusingly, on another site, a woman was posting recently that she was watching TNG Season 7 and discovered that she maybe never saw this season. She was loving it! Like, she posted that she loved "Genesis" and "Journey's End" and then asked me "Is all of Season 7 this good?" It's a great reminder that everyone views Trek differently. I actually have soft a spot for Genesis, as it scared the shit out of me as a kid and unlike most of the rest of the season at least it has some oomph. I would in no way describe Genesis as a "good" Trek episode, but it is entertaining in a turn your brain off sort of way. Journey's End...nope, nothing redeemable about that one. Okay, I respected the choice of having Wesley wash out of Starfleet, but then they had to ruin it by having him run off to be the Galaxy's Most Special Boy with the Traveler instead of actually experiencing failure. "Genesis" has one redeeming feature and that is the excellent direction by Gates McFadden. She treats it like a proper horror story, and her direction makes it scary. Otherwise, the actual story is nonsense. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Sept 3, 2022 15:17:07 GMT -5
Amusingly, on another site, a woman was posting recently that she was watching TNG Season 7 and discovered that she maybe never saw this season. She was loving it! Like, she posted that she loved "Genesis" and "Journey's End" and then asked me "Is all of Season 7 this good?" It's a great reminder that everyone views Trek differently. Well, the correct answer to the question, "is all of Season 7 this good?" is yes. Yes, Season 7 is exactly that good. Unfortunately.
Yeah. I wasn't quite sure how to answer her. Because the answer to her question is "yes". But not for the reason she thinks? I think I did answer "yes".
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ABz B👹anaz
Grandfathered In
This country is (now less of) a shitshow.
Posts: 1,992
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Post by ABz B👹anaz on Sept 30, 2022 1:25:24 GMT -5
Lower Decks went to DEEP SPACE NINE this week, and it was a blast. Love this show so much!
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Post by Ben Grimm on Sept 30, 2022 8:17:54 GMT -5
We finally got caught up on Lower Decks last night (our seven weeks without home internet got us way behind on everything) and I'm really happy with the current season. Last night's episode:
I was slightly miffed that they mentioned a tailor's shop and we didn't get a Garak cameo, admittedly.
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Post by Prole Hole on Sept 30, 2022 9:06:01 GMT -5
Weird, this season has been a bit of a dud for me. The DS9 stuff was well done but it's just not what I want a show like Lower Decks to be doing. The show was much better when it just had the odd reference to stuff rather than the slow accretion of Stuff Fans Will Love! and it's putting me off. Last weeks's was the strongest episode of the season so far but S3 hasn't really been hitting the spot for me.
Alright, I liked the rivalry with Kira.
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Post by liebkartoffel on Sept 30, 2022 11:02:12 GMT -5
Weird, this season has been a bit of a dud for me. The DS9 stuff was well done but it's just not what I want a show like Lower Decks to be doing. The show was much better when it just had the odd reference to stuff rather than the slow accretion of Stuff Fans Will Love! and it's putting me off. Last weeks's was the strongest episode of the season so far but S3 hasn't really been hitting the spot for me. Alright, I liked the rivalry with Kira. General Spoilers apply below, as I hate how the spoiler tag ruins the formatting. While I disagree on the season overall, I don't think this most recent episode was particularly strong. On the one hand, it's sweet to see DS9 treated with the same reverence as TNG and TOS, but on the other hand the actual plot is pretty dull--effectively a rehash any number of "Quark's extra-legal hijinks land him in hot water" B and C-plots from DS9. And while it was great seeing Kira and Quark again, it feels weird telling that kind of story without Odo (sniff). Meanwhile, this episode's B-plot was...weird. Is Mariner's girlfriend a sociopath? Because I can't think of any other reason for Jennifer inviting Mariner along solely to fuck with her (supposedly) closest friends. Plus the humor was pretty one-note and vaguely sexist in a "ha ha, look at all these basic bitches!" sort of way. I kept waiting for some ironic turn where Jennifer's friends revealed themselves to be cool and capable and self-aware in various other ways--a trick that Lower Decks frequently pulls off well--but, nope, they're all just superficially awful and deserve to be stunned into unconsciousness, apparently. |
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Post by Prole Hole on Oct 1, 2022 2:57:45 GMT -5
Weird, this season has been a bit of a dud for me. The DS9 stuff was well done but it's just not what I want a show like Lower Decks to be doing. The show was much better when it just had the odd reference to stuff rather than the slow accretion of Stuff Fans Will Love! and it's putting me off. Last weeks's was the strongest episode of the season so far but S3 hasn't really been hitting the spot for me. Alright, I liked the rivalry with Kira. General Spoilers apply below, as I hate how the spoiler tag ruins the formatting. While I disagree on the season overall, I don't think this most recent episode was particularly strong. On the one hand, it's sweet to see DS9 treated with the same reverence as TNG and TOS, but on the other hand the actual plot is pretty dull--effectively a rehash any number of "Quark's extra-legal hijinks land him in hot water" B and C-plots from DS9. And while it was great seeing Kira and Quark again, it feels weird telling that kind of story without Odo (sniff). Meanwhile, this episode's B-plot was...weird. Is Mariner's girlfriend a sociopath? Because I can't think of any other reason for Jennifer inviting Mariner along solely to fuck with her (supposedly) closest friends. Plus the humor was pretty one-note and vaguely sexist in a "ha ha, look at all these basic bitches!" sort of way. I kept waiting for some ironic turn where Jennifer's friends revealed themselves to be cool and capable and self-aware in various other ways--a trick that Lower Decks frequently pulls off well--but, nope, they're all just superficially awful and deserve to be stunned into unconsciousness, apparently. Yeah that b-plot was weird. It reminded me of the competitiveness in Mining the Mind's Mines, where the twist was that actually the other crew thought the Cerritos were the good ones and worked extra-hard to keep up. Like you say, that's the kind of thing Lower Decks is good at subverting, but not here apparently. I did laugh at the line, "but what about our intentions?" when the candles got blown out, but other than that, yeah. There's a big gulf between, "my friends are a bit much" and "rip em to shreds!" I get that the message is meant to be, "I love you the way you are, you don't need to try so hard" but it did not land at all. |
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Post by Prole Hole on Oct 7, 2022 7:20:18 GMT -5
Well, that sucked.
Still, at least Lower Decks has its very own Ghost Candle Sex episode now, so... that's something?
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Post by liebkartoffel on Oct 7, 2022 23:31:39 GMT -5
Well, that sucked. Still, at least Lower Decks has its very own Ghost Candle Sex episode now, so... that's something? That was...that was...that...hmmm. I guess in Rabinian terms I'd term it a "fiasco" rather "failure" in that I kind of admire the ambition of centering an episode almost exclusively on an annoying one-joke character from two seasons ago, and my reaction to most of it wasn't "I hate this" so much as "what the fuck is even going on?" |
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ABz B👹anaz
Grandfathered In
This country is (now less of) a shitshow.
Posts: 1,992
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Post by ABz B👹anaz on Oct 8, 2022 17:06:46 GMT -5
Well, that sucked. Still, at least Lower Decks has its very own Ghost Candle Sex episode now, so... that's something? That was...that was...that...hmmm. I guess in Rabinian terms I'd term it a "fiasco" rather "failure" in that I kind of admire the ambition of centering an episode almost exclusively on an annoying one-joke character from two seasons ago, and my reaction to most of it wasn't "I hate this" so much as "what the fuck is even going on?" Yeah, that was...a little too mean-spirited I think is why it fell flat. But they may be setting up Peanut Hamper (along with the other evil robots) for a big "boss" position later on I guess? |
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Post by Prole Hole on Oct 8, 2022 17:26:21 GMT -5
That was...that was...that...hmmm. I guess in Rabinian terms I'd term it a "fiasco" rather "failure" in that I kind of admire the ambition of centering an episode almost exclusively on an annoying one-joke character from two seasons ago, and my reaction to most of it wasn't "I hate this" so much as "what the fuck is even going on?" Yeah, that was...a little too mean-spirited I think is why it fell flat. But they may be setting up Peanut Hamper (along with the other evil robots) for a big "boss" position later on I guess? Hopefully not. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Dec 28, 2022 22:51:37 GMT -5
I'll post this here and cross-post in the Podcast thread, but my good self and Nathan Ford's Evil Twin have started our Star Trek TOS podcast now, Talking Trek To You. He's never seen the original show, I've seen little else, so its an expert and a noob situation. We went live on Friday with Where No Man Has Gone Before and will be posting bi-weekly. Every episode we have a guest on, except for the opening one where it's just the two of us. Recording-wise we're doing broadcast order not production order and we're up to The Naked Time so far. We have a site here, and we're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify etc but you should be able to find it on any podcatcher you're using.
Hey Prole Hole I finally listened to some of your Trek podcast!
I am not a huge fan of TOS, and I don't much like many of the episodes you've covered. But I love hearing how enthusiastic you are! And it amuses me that your newbie co-host seems much more receptive to the show than I'd imagine a newbie would. I also like that he's picking up one of the things I discovered when I finally watched all of TOS about 6-7 years ago: That Shatner is a MUCH better actor in the tv series than he was in the movies.
It does look like you've posted episodes through The Corbomite Manuever, so the last several you posted are episodes I like better than the preceding ones. Hopefully I'll get to them in the near future.
Congrats! It's a pretty fun podcast.
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Post by Prole Hole on Dec 29, 2022 5:08:20 GMT -5
I'll post this here and cross-post in the Podcast thread, but my good self and Nathan Ford's Evil Twin have started our Star Trek TOS podcast now, Talking Trek To You. He's never seen the original show, I've seen little else, so its an expert and a noob situation. We went live on Friday with Where No Man Has Gone Before and will be posting bi-weekly. Every episode we have a guest on, except for the opening one where it's just the two of us. Recording-wise we're doing broadcast order not production order and we're up to The Naked Time so far. We have a site here, and we're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify etc but you should be able to find it on any podcatcher you're using.
Hey Prole Hole I finally listened to some of your Trek podcast!
I am not a huge fan of TOS, and I don't much like many of the episodes you've covered. But I love hearing how enthusiastic you are! And it amuses me that your newbie co-host seems much more receptive to the show than I'd imagine a newbie would. I also like that he's picking up one of the things I discovered when I finally watched all of TOS about 6-7 years ago: That Shatner is a MUCH better actor in the tv series than he was in the movies.
It does look like you've posted episodes through The Corbomite Manuever, so the last several you posted are episodes I like better than the preceding ones. Hopefully I'll get to them in the near future.
Congrats! It's a pretty fun podcast.
Oh thank you for listening, I'm really touched that you took the time to give it a go. It's a fun thing to do! As it happens I'll be editing today and next up is Balance of Terror (which will post on the 31st) so we're really getting into classic episodes territory now. And absolutely agreed about Shatner - he had trouble upscaling his performance to the silver screen but he's remarkably effective on the small one. Glad you're enjoying it! |
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Post by Ben Grimm on Feb 17, 2023 10:59:18 GMT -5
I thought the new episode of Picard was the best episode the show's done to date, though I'll freely admit that I might seem like I'm damning it with faint praise. But the set-up for the season was interesting, Jonathan Frakes seemed like he was having as much fun as he ever has, and there were a lot of pretty spaceships to look at.
The Titan-A design seems to be a bit controversial, but I liked it well enough. Invokes the original Constitution refit without just being the same ship.
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Post by Prole Hole on Feb 17, 2023 11:03:28 GMT -5
I thought the new episode of Picard was the best episode the show's done to date, though I'll freely admit that I might seem like I'm damning it with faint praise. But the set-up for the season was interesting, Jonathan Frakes seemed like he was having as much fun as he ever has, and there were a lot of pretty spaceships to look at. The Titan-A design seems to be a bit controversial, but I liked it well enough. Invokes the original Constitution refit without just being the same ship. I haven't seen it yet! Aargh! I'm in the middle of an extended flat-move at the moment and haven't had the chance to sit down and watch anything yet. I will carve out a 45 minute slot for it at some point over the weekend no doubt (OK - there may be doubt). |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Feb 18, 2023 1:24:09 GMT -5
I thought the new episode of Picard was the best episode the show's done to date, though I'll freely admit that I might seem like I'm damning it with faint praise. But the set-up for the season was interesting, Jonathan Frakes seemed like he was having as much fun as he ever has, and there were a lot of pretty spaceships to look at. The Titan-A design seems to be a bit controversial, but I liked it well enough. Invokes the original Constitution refit without just being the same ship.
The problem here for me is that the S1 story set-up also seemed interesting. S2 also seemed potentially interesting. Multiple seasons of ST:DSC started out as interesting. But by the time the seasons end, the story is something else entirely and nothing you've watched up to that point even matters.
I swear, S1-2 of Picard and DSC are some of the worst tv writing I've ever seen. I'm still really shocked that ST:Picard had an actual novelist as showrunner, yet the longform storytelling was terrible.
I really do hope S3 is good. I'll be checking reviews as it goes. If it turns out to be good, I will watch it. |
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Post by Prole Hole on Feb 20, 2023 4:19:28 GMT -5
I thought the new episode of Picard was the best episode the show's done to date, though I'll freely admit that I might seem like I'm damning it with faint praise. But the set-up for the season was interesting, Jonathan Frakes seemed like he was having as much fun as he ever has, and there were a lot of pretty spaceships to look at. The Titan-A design seems to be a bit controversial, but I liked it well enough. Invokes the original Constitution refit without just being the same ship.
The problem here for me is that the S1 story set-up also seemed interesting. S2 also seemed potentially interesting. Multiple seasons of ST:DSC started out as interesting. But by the time the seasons end, the story is something else entirely and nothing you've watched up to that point even matters.
I swear, S1-2 of Picard and DSC are some of the worst tv writing I've ever seen. I'm still really shocked that ST:Picard had an actual novelist as showrunner, yet the longform storytelling was terrible.
I really do hope S3 is good. I'll be checking reviews as it goes. If it turns out to be good, I will watch it. The first episode turned out great but, like you say, that's pretty much true of the first episodes of S1 and S2 as well. It was lovely to see Picard and Riker hanging out together though, and nice to see Beverly get something to do. Still not a fuck to give about Agnes but not much that can be done about that at this point unfortunately. Seven: characteristically great. Dinner scene: also great! |
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