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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Apr 20, 2015 17:10:02 GMT -5
Dr Livingstone See people say Captain America 2 is like a 70s spy thriller but I think that has more to do with the Russo Brothers saying it's like that; the movie owes far more to the Avengers and at no point feels like a 70s spy thriller; it's just a generic superhero film with a spy twist, or an Avengers film that removed the supernatural element and focuses more strongly on the runaway Shield agency. I guess the main reason I wasn't that impressed with it is all the talk about it being like a spy thriller led me to believe it'd be noticeably different from the other Marvel films. It's Daredevil that feels like it's been influenced by 70s media. I did intend to wafch Agent Carter, but there's still no word about when it will be released so I wouldn't be surprised if it is not available this year.
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Post by drjacoby on Apr 20, 2015 17:41:36 GMT -5
This show is going to be like Batman Begins all over again, in that basically everyone loves it, except for me, and the things everyone else loves are the things that leave me cold. For example: the grim and grittiness of it. I was happier to leave that to DC, and I have no love for Frank Miller or Miller-esque things. This felt waay too much like Batman, which is a shame. I don't mind a good fight scene or seven, but I hate the stupid brutality of the show. The "good" torture that goes almost entire unremarked...and when objections are voiced, the show treats them as perfunctory. In addition to being kind of a pet peeve anymore, it's a waste of the character. He's a lawyer who can read people perfectly, well enough to even know when they're lying. Having him resort to just torturing people for answers (in addition to in truth being entirely ineffective, even if you could detect lies) is like having a show about Thor restoring houses. I mean, I suppose there's no reason Thor couldn't star in a fictionalized house-flipper show, but it seems kind of a mismatch. Matt should be pretty good at trying to bait and trap people into saying more than they should, and even better at it since his abilities mean he's able to find the right buttons to hit. I do agree with the idea that the villain was better developed in some respects. Like they wanted to do some modern prestige anti-hero drama, but then kept remembering that the show is called Daredevil. I was really frustrated by how little they really got into Matt's head (compared to Wilson Fisk). I came out of the show not being sure exactly why Matt was doing what he was doing, or why he was doing it the way he was doing it. What made him go, "I know, I'll break kneecaps?" If they'd gone the more traditional route of having him start out rescuing little old ladies from muggers and various bits of derring do, and THEN he got sucked into the darker side of things as shit went down, okay, it'd be trite but at least it'd be easy to follow his motivations and logic. Here, it's kind of, "?because he likes it? maybe? or...? crime?" I also think they were way too shy of the superhero stuff (especially in the downplaying of abilities, etc), which made the sudden turn of some of it at the end feel out of place. I hope to hell they don't go down the same route with the rest of the shows. (Although I'll grant an exception for Jessica Jones.) ANd if this inspires the comics go to back towards the neverending bleakness of previous runs, I'm going to be cross. Interesting comment, since I feel the same way as you about Batman Begins, but I ended up loving Daredevil (for the most part)... it feels like it's nails the tone that BB was attempting. I like Nolan's first film best when it was focusing on the crime storylines and the more realistic elements of Gotham, but all the Ra's Al Ghul stuff undercut that, and the ending climax just felt goofy to me. And while Matt's character development could have used some work, he's still far more relatable and less opaque than Bale's Bruce Wayne, whose characterization remained extremely muddled across all three movies. Daredevil really nailed the grungy, crime film feel that Batman Begins merely made a pass at. Plus the way that Murdock only fully creates his persona at the very end of the story is much more satisfying than the way that the whole Batman persona and all the gadgets just got created out of nowhere halfway through BB. Daredevil definitely faltered in it's last couple of episodes though, and the goofiness of the suit and the final fight between Matt and Wilson really undercut how great the set up was. And I can understand you feeling like the Batman thing is played out... I feel like Daredevil did that take on the character much more successfully than Nolan's film, or Arrow, but the fact remains that it draws from those things, and it does very little that doesn't feel derivative. I still really loved it though: I love that kind of take on superheroes, and it's a huge departure for the MCU in general (particularly their tv department).
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Apr 20, 2015 17:52:27 GMT -5
drjacoby Definitely agree that it was undercut a little at the end. The Daredevil suit is a let down after how cool his pre-Daredevil suit looked; I hope they redesign it a little for Defenders (just as Iron Man and Captain America seem to get wardrobe overhauls every so often) and the way the show introduced Melvin Potter really felt like 'hey look, comic book fans, it's that guy who's part of the origin' more than it felt like it flowed organically from what the show had been up to that point. Daredevil does a pretty delicate balance between its pulpy crime drama (I suppose one point of comparison here is Oldboy - not just for the oft compared fight scene, but the melodramatic comic booky passions and darkness, though obviously Oldboy goes to a much darker place) and the more outre comic elements, but that worked best in "Stick," where is garrulous mentor can give the mystical ninja stuff a degree of gravity.
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Post by drjacoby on Apr 20, 2015 19:50:46 GMT -5
drjacoby Definitely agree that it was undercut a little at the end. The Daredevil suit is a let down after how cool his pre-Daredevil suit looked; I hope they redesign it a little for Defenders (just as Iron Man and Captain America seem to get wardrobe overhauls every so often) and the way the show introduced Melvin Potter really felt like 'hey look, comic book fans, it's that guy who's part of the origin' more than it felt like it flowed organically from what the show had been up to that point. Daredevil does a pretty delicate balance between its pulpy crime drama (I suppose one point of comparison here is Oldboy - not just for the oft compared fight scene, but the melodramatic comic booky passions and darkness, though obviously Oldboy goes to a much darker place) and the more outre comic elements, but that worked best in "Stick," where is garrulous mentor can give the mystical ninja stuff a degree of gravity. Yeah I thought episodes 7-9 or so were the highlight of the series, I was surprised the AVC reviews were so "meh" on Stick and especially Shadows in the Glass. Though I'd say the whole series was excellent up until episode 12, where everything started to feel sloppy and rushed.
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Post by Dr Livingstone on Apr 20, 2015 23:18:17 GMT -5
I feel like the end was a lot more engaging than the rest of it, hah. It's funny when your reaction to something is just completely 180 to someone else's. I kind of wish the show had been a bit more procedural, actually! A few COTW would have helped fill in some more color with the heroes.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Apr 21, 2015 7:14:56 GMT -5
Dr Livingstone I'm really surprised by how procedural it wasn't. Since I'd heard the guy is a lawyer, and this is TV, I pretty much assumed we'd get a client-of-the-week in every other episode, but the actual lawyer work kind of drops off after the third episode.
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Post by Dr Livingstone on Apr 21, 2015 18:49:37 GMT -5
Dr Livingstone I'm really surprised by how procedural it wasn't. Since I'd heard the guy is a lawyer, and this is TV, I pretty much assumed we'd get a client-of-the-week in every other episode, but the actual lawyer work kind of drops off after the third episode. It's interesting, because as much as I am usually frustrated by the procedural element in many shows, I really felt the lack of it here. There is a strength to the procedural format, although maybe there should be a way to distinguish between strong procedural and weak procedural. I would have really liked to see the show match something like season 3 fringe (or, in house, Agent Carter), where the overarching plot and character development certain proceeds at a clip, but there's enough structure within each episode not to make the whole thing feel overstretched. I'm also starting to think it may be, for these type of shows, some what necessary as a frame to hang moments of character development on.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Apr 21, 2015 18:54:46 GMT -5
Dr Livingstone I don't think procedural is necessary for these shows, but I do think they benefit from episodic plots - like having the arc stuff sometimes be B-story while the A-story is a standalone element - which is part of what made "Stick" work well. It's not a requirement, but it can definitely benefit a show (on the other hand I just watched the gut punch that was the 100's season finale and there is a show that can go all arc and really stick it because so much of what is going on really works.) I guess the other thing is we are so used to genre series being procedural as a matter of course. CBS's Supergirl has been announced to be procedural; TNT's Lucifer will be a procedural with the Devil involved (less than a decade after the CW had a show that did exactly that in Reaper.) A genre series has the slightest procedural element you immediately assume it'll be integral, because it almost always is.
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Post by Carade on Apr 21, 2015 20:49:52 GMT -5
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Post by sarapen on Apr 21, 2015 21:11:01 GMT -5
Oh shit, Steven DeKnight isn't coming back? But I already upvoted this. You made me into a liar Carade.
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Post by Dr Livingstone on Apr 21, 2015 22:41:03 GMT -5
Dr Livingstone I don't think procedural is necessary for these shows, but I do think they benefit from episodic plots - like having the arc stuff sometimes be B-story while the A-story is a standalone element - which is part of what made "Stick" work well. It's not a requirement, but it can definitely benefit a show (on the other hand I just watched the gut punch that was the 100's season finale and there is a show that can go all arc and really stick it because so much of what is going on really works.) I guess the other thing is we are so used to genre series being procedural as a matter of course. CBS's Supergirl has been announced to be procedural; TNT's Lucifer will be a procedural with the Devil involved (less than a decade after the CW had a show that did exactly that in Reaper.) A genre series has the slightest procedural element you immediately assume it'll be integral, because it almost always is. Terminology aside, I think we're grasping at the same idea here. Reaper...was an uneven and interesting case. God, I still miss it.
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Post by Carade on Apr 22, 2015 19:48:24 GMT -5
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Post by sarapen on Apr 23, 2015 11:58:18 GMT -5
I've been reading the Grantland review of the show and came across this bit of trivia: "the vengeful tone of Miller’s Daredevil comics make more sense once you know that their creator was mugged dozens of times after moving to New York from rural Vermont". I had no idea. I wonder how many comics writers had that happen to them back in the day? No wonder there's such a Death Wish vibe to everything.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Apr 23, 2015 13:23:40 GMT -5
Oh shit, Steven DeKnight isn't coming back? But I already upvoted this. You made me into a liar Carade. I'd upvote it if it meant Steven DeKnight was returning to either Incursion or Romanzo Criminale, but neither appear to be likely as he claims he has an unannounced film commitment.
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Trurl
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Post by Trurl on Apr 25, 2015 15:26:56 GMT -5
It's a beautiful spring day so I stayed in and watched the first four episodes; I'm enjoying it immensely. I'm enjoying it enough that I don't mind the little things; yeah, Matt is kind of bland, and Foggy's glib bonhomie is a little forced. The over-the-top brutality is kind of balanced by how *fatiguing* the fights are - you don't often see people having to drag themselves back to their feet to keep fighting.
And D'Onofrio is fun - he does the intensely screwed up well. There were a couple times when he was on that date where it was like "ha ha, I laugh at this human humour because I am a human as well". He can smile like someone who read about smiling in a book. I'm looking forward to watching more.
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Trurl
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Post by Trurl on Apr 26, 2015 8:56:20 GMT -5
The only thing that's really bothering me about the show is, why the hell doesn't anybody own anything brighter than a 20 watt bulb? Even the friggin hospital has romantic mood lighting.
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Post by Trurl on Apr 26, 2015 19:28:21 GMT -5
Watching more episodes tonight I had the sudden realization that Vincent D'Onofrio is actually Lrrr, from Omicron Persei 8. The interesting thing is that this realization is in no way affecting my enjoyment of the show.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Apr 27, 2015 7:08:56 GMT -5
Trurl Why does not Hulk, the largest Avenger, simply not eat the other five?
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Trurl
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Post by Trurl on Apr 27, 2015 8:02:49 GMT -5
Trurl Why does not Hulk, the largest Avenger, simply not eat the other five? Now I want Amy as Vanessa.
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Post by Baramos on Apr 29, 2015 21:26:03 GMT -5
Captain America 2 was pretty badass, though. I could have done with like ten giant action set pieces from that movie. I feel like a movie is especially good if even when it's over two hours long it feels too short.
Oh, and I thought Daredevil was pretty good. I kind of thought maybe Matt should be more introspective at points but I guess that was the point of talking to the priest, it was like Batman talking to Alfred or whatever.
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Post by NerdInTheBasement on Jun 9, 2015 20:07:32 GMT -5
Jon Bernthal is confirmed to play The Punisher in Season Two of Daredevil, and boy howdy, is that awesome casting.
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Post by Carade on Jun 10, 2015 10:07:19 GMT -5
Jon Bernthal is confirmed to play The Punisher in Season Two of Daredevil, and boy howdy, is that awesome casting. Dang, that IS good casting. It hits that Pratt/Rudd sweet spot of not being anyone's first choice, but once it's announced you can't think of anyone else for the role.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 16:34:56 GMT -5
Finished season one about a week ago. Fantastic! D'Onofrio is amazing as Fisk.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Jul 9, 2015 11:21:58 GMT -5
So they've cast a Punisher and an Elektra for next season, plus I'm sure they'll be tempted to re-visit D'Onforio's Kingpin in some limited role. I'm really getting worried about SpiderMan3itis in season 2 .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 11:52:18 GMT -5
Jon Bernthal and Elodie Yung both seem like good choices for the characters. I'm sure Kingpin will be involved as well, though hopefully less, as you said.
I'm not worried about overuse of villains just yet. There were plenty of other villains in S1 already (Kingpin, Owlsley, Gao, The Hand, etc.) and it didn't seem stuffed. We'll see.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2016 10:46:20 GMT -5
So I finished S2 of Daredevil yesterday. Thoughts, and SPOILERS: This season was not as good as the first, in my opinion. Jon Bernthal was FANTASTIC as Castle. Karen Page's character progression and relationship with Castle was pretty damn great as well. Elektra was...kind of a mess. WAY too many loose threads not answered or answered very unclearly!!! Who the fuck was The Blacksmith? Was it Castle's former CO? They didn't really make that clear at the end... The war between the Chaste (Stick's group) and The Hand was all over one person? Elektra's constant "good, bad, good, bad" flip-flops were annoying. What the fuck was up with the blood draining, and the giant hole in the ground, and the zombie people, and Nobu? I really felt like the mystery of the giant stone jar/coffin was dragged on for half the season just for ratings, and not because of any actual story purpose. Matt revealing his mask to Karen at the end worked well for me.
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Post by nowimnothing on May 5, 2016 11:11:27 GMT -5
So I finished S2 of Daredevil yesterday. Thoughts, and SPOILERS: This season was not as good as the first, in my opinion. Jon Bernthal was FANTASTIC as Castle. Karen Page's character progression and relationship with Castle was pretty damn great as well. Elektra was...kind of a mess.
I agree. We could have done with a lot more Punisher and Kingpin and a lot less Electra and The Hand. Karen's move from receptionist to reporter was nonsensical. Foggy was pretty much ignored after the trial. About that last fight. Very annoying. I could have cared less about Electra dying. Then Punisher shows up just to show off his new outfit (it did not look like DD was in any real trouble with those last 5 ninjas.) The last bit with Nobu was so muddled I thought DD had jumped off the roof with his magic grappling nun chuck around Nobu's neck.
Maybe I will give Jessica Jones a try...though I did have to look her up on wikipedia just to see how she fit in the Marvel universe.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on May 5, 2016 11:49:30 GMT -5
I'm okay with the show not having more Punisher since in retrospect the whole thing was a way of testing if he had legs for his own TV show (which I definitely thought he did); it's a bit like how Jessica Jones handled Luke Cage. Speaking of: Maybe I will give Jessica Jones a try...though I did have to look her up on wikipedia just to see how she fit in the Marvel universe. I liked Jessica Jones more than any of the other Marvel shows, though its narrow focus on a single antagonist gave it a pacing issue similar to Daredevil's first season.
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Post by Sanziana on Jun 15, 2016 3:56:16 GMT -5
This second season was so boring and bland I don't know if I'll bother with the third. And with Fisk gone, I realised Vincent D'Onofrio was the only good actor in this show. Electra was cringeworthy and it seems some of you guys liked Jon Bernthal as The Punisher, but he was just Shane without the head rub for me.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Jun 30, 2016 7:52:20 GMT -5
We finished Season 2 last night. Despite all the complaints I heard going in, I enjoyed it - the crazy incoherent ninja plot really felt like the Frank Miller era comic come to life, and that's still what I primarily think of when I think of Daredevil. I thought Punisher's origin story was well-executed, and that Bernthal was fantastic in the role. My biggest complaint was that a lot of scenes were just too dark - from a lighting perspective, not thematic - and sometimes I couldn't tell what was going on.
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