Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Nov 9, 2014 6:05:05 GMT -5
Ha HA, I was all "I know that voice, whose voice is that... NICK FROST." Also not ashamed to admit it, cried like a baby at Kate Stewart's rescuer. Yes, I had feels there too. Only time in the entire thing.
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Post by Mrs David Tennant on Nov 9, 2014 18:45:22 GMT -5
Well, that was depressing. I'm going to have to go back and watch some Amy Pond/Matt Smith to take that taste out of my mouth. (Is that a yucky way to put it?)
So many things wrong.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Nov 10, 2014 8:54:55 GMT -5
I wasn't actively angry at anything (mostly because I try not to take my TV shows about time travelling aliens in a blue box just too seriously) but it was disappointing, mostly because you didn't have to squint too hard to see the skeleton of some good ideas and story there. They were just overwhelmed by a bunch of stuff that didn't entirely make sense with Clara and a few too many moments that were unintentionally hilarious.
If "Sad Cyberman" isn't already a meme by today, we've failed as an internet.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Nov 10, 2014 8:55:14 GMT -5
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Post-Lupin
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Immanentizing the Eschaton
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Post by Post-Lupin on Nov 11, 2014 15:50:14 GMT -5
Someone just pointed out on Twitter that the plot is pretty much identical to Plan Nine From Outer Space...
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Post by Il sole sotto la terra on Nov 11, 2014 22:06:54 GMT -5
So, Cybermen at St. Paul's and the Chaplet Funeral Home mean that the missing two episodes of "The Invasion" plus all of "The Massacre" and "The Savages" plus episodes 1-3 of "The Celestial Toymaker" have been discovered, right? RIGHT?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 11:28:02 GMT -5
Hey all, I'm as usual a year behind on this stuff...I finally got to "The Night of the Doctor". I saw the mini-preview of it back before it premiered (and was delighted to have both Paul McGann return and John Hurt appear).
I don't know what the prevailing opinion is, but I loved it. The various doctors pointing out the annoying things the others do ("Timey-wimey?!"), the retroactive rescue of Gallifrey, and Tom Baker's cameo were all great. (Seriously I was in tears seeing Baker. He was the Doctor I grew up with, having to stay up until 11pm on Saturdays with my Dad to watch, unless PBS was doing a pledge drive marathon.)
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Post by Jon Pertwees Shameless Gurning on Nov 25, 2014 12:25:47 GMT -5
Some random Series 8 thoughts:
- The changes in approach (less frenetic pace, letting scenes and stories breathe a little more, overall darker tone, Capaldi being Capaldi) were well-intentioned and mostly worked very well. My personal angst for Moffat to depart, post-haste, has largely subsided. There were still significant missteps, but there were in Series 5 as well, and its reputation has held up pretty well.
- The things that seemed designed to troll the worst of the anorak-type superfans (Missy/The Master, the resolution of Kill the Moon, the elevation of Coleman to true series lead, to name a few) were fantastically done, and provided a lot of what I personally want from Doctor Who. (My ideal DW would look like this series crossed w the Bidmead season of Classic Who, and a pinch of Season 26/Paul Cornell New Adventures for flavoring. And the Doctor would be played by McGann. Anyway...)
- Michelle Gomez is my favorite Master right now. Delgado is still probably the best, but damn was she a lot of fun.
- The finale ended up being a bit of a mess, but in the glorious way most of the Tennant finales were. It felt like Moffat trying to do an RTD-style blowout w an especially bleak ending. The closing scenes w Coleman and Capaldi were easily among the best acting in 51 years of Who. Especially Capaldi's wordless breakdown upon following Missy's Gallifrey coordinates.
Initial episode rankings (after one viewing each):
Listen - Stunningly good. Capaldi's first real showpiece (although stealthily it's also very much about moving Coleman to the forefront), and Moffat's script rises to the occasion Kill the Moon - Boy is it divisive. But it's also audacious and amazing Deep Breath - Not as good as The Eleventh Hour, but didn't have to be. Mission statement for the Capaldi era, expertly done Mummy on the Orient Express - Should've been called The Foretold. Goofy title belies thriller-Who at its best Dark Water/Death in Heaven - see above The Caretaker - Gareth Roberts romps are fun. Unexpected twists into character drama are fascinating In the Forest of the Night - More fodder for the "bad science ruins Who" crowd. They can toss. This is delightful. Flatline - Amazing concept, and strong effects work. Missed parts of this, it may well rise upon rewatch Into the Dalek - Could've been better. Still pretty good. Time Heist - This had a whiff of the New Adventure era, and a decent monster. But slightly underwhelming overall Robot of Sherwood - Too silly by half, and an unfortunate step back for Gatiss. This would be solidly middle of the pack in any other season, though, and that sums up how great Series 8 was.
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Paleu
AV Clubber
Confirmed for neo-liberal shill.
Posts: 1,258
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Post by Paleu on Nov 26, 2014 1:20:30 GMT -5
Having just finished the season, I'm massively disappointed. I've disagreed with Post-Lupin in specific instances this season (I liked the Orient Express episode that he loathed) but not in overall feelings of meh at best. I really like Capaldi, and I think he can succeed as Doctor, but this season was just not written well for him. I know I'm far from the first person to say it, but god Moffat needs to step down and give someone else a chance. I don't think he has anything more to add to the show and I worry that next season will be even more mediocre than this one. But hey! Nick Frost! That should be fun...right?
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Nov 26, 2014 4:58:12 GMT -5
Having just finished the season, I'm massively disappointed. I've disagreed with Post-Lupin in specific instances this season (I liked the Orient Express episode that he loathed) but not in overall feelings of meh at best. I really like Capaldi, and I think he can succeed as Doctor, but this season was just not written well for him. I know I'm far from the first person to say it, but god Moffat needs to step down and give someone else a chance. I don't think he has anything more to add to the show and I worry that next season will be even more mediocre than this one. But hey! Nick Frost! That should be fun...right? The comparison I keep making is Pierce Brosnan's James Bond: a superb actor perfectly cast, wasted in bad scripts. Only difference is, Pierce at least got to do Goldeneye - Capaldi's not had a single episode actually worthy of him yet.
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Post by Mrs David Tennant on Nov 26, 2014 10:08:38 GMT -5
Having just finished the season, I'm massively disappointed. I've disagreed with Post-Lupin in specific instances this season (I liked the Orient Express episode that he loathed) but not in overall feelings of meh at best. I really like Capaldi, and I think he can succeed as Doctor, but this season was just not written well for him. I know I'm far from the first person to say it, but god Moffat needs to step down and give someone else a chance. I don't think he has anything more to add to the show and I worry that next season will be even more mediocre than this one. But hey! Nick Frost! That should be fun...right? The comparison I keep making is Pierce Brosnan's James Bond: a superb actor perfectly cast, wasted in bad scripts. Only difference is, Pierce at least got to do Goldeneye - Capaldi's not had a single episode actually worthy of him yet. I kind of agree with you. I think Capaldi is a great actor, but he's been wasted on this season of Doctor Who.
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Post by Jon Pertwees Shameless Gurning on Nov 26, 2014 10:24:25 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't realize this series was such a letdown to folks. I mean, I can't (and wouldn't want to) argue specifics, but this really worked for me as a complete story arc. I mean, aside from 'Listen', there weren't any instant classics like 'The Doctor's Wife' or 'The God Complex' (both stories from a problematic series), but this felt like Series 4 to me in a lot of ways, just consistently good throughout. Good, like in a 'I was convinced Moffat didn't have anything good left in him, let alone near-transcendent' type of way. Oh well.
My series rankings for the new series at the moment: 5 8 4 1 3 6 7 2
Sorry to keep banging on, I'm just baffled that I disagree so strongly w folks my tastes seem to align with otherwise.
Aside from Capaldi, was there anything else y'all liked?
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Nov 26, 2014 11:44:55 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't realize this series was such a letdown to folks. I mean, I can't (and wouldn't want to) argue specifics, but this really worked for me as a complete story arc. I mean, aside from 'Listen', there weren't any instant classics like 'The Doctor's Wife' or 'The God Complex' (both stories from a problematic series), but this felt like Series 4 to me in a lot of ways, just consistently good throughout. Good, like in a 'I was convinced Moffat didn't have anything good left in him, let alone near-transcendent' type of way. Oh well. My series rankings for the new series at the moment: 5 8 4 1 3 6 7 2 Sorry to keep banging on, I'm just baffled that I disagree so strongly w folks my tastes seem to align with otherwise. Aside from Capaldi, was there anything else y'all liked? I'm with you. I thought it was a fun season and the flaws weren't any different than they've been for the last few years, I think people are just more primed to notice and gripe about them. People are judging it for what they think it could have been, not what it was.
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Post by Mrs David Tennant on Nov 26, 2014 12:09:36 GMT -5
I may just be burnt out on the show. I generally watch only about 4-5 seasons of a show, even one I'm really enjoying. (Except Stargate - love all of it!) And I never really cared for Jenna Coleman for whatever reason.
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Post by Jon Pertwees Shameless Gurning on Nov 26, 2014 12:16:29 GMT -5
I may just be burnt out on the show. I generally watch only about 4-5 seasons of a show, even one I'm really enjoying. (Except Stargate - love all of it!) And I never really cared for Jenna Coleman for whatever reason. Yeah, I can get that. Most the shows I like can only sustain my interest for about the same amount of time, Who being the exception that proves the rule. It's also just a different kind of show, so my standards for what makes it great are very different from most other dramas and/or comedies I'm into.
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Post-Lupin
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Post by Post-Lupin on Nov 26, 2014 16:45:48 GMT -5
I'm with you. I thought it was a fun season and the flaws weren't any different than they've been for the last few years, I think people are just more primed to notice and gripe about them. People are judging it for what they think it could have been, not what it was. No, I really am judging it for what it was as well as what it could have been!
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Nov 26, 2014 16:57:58 GMT -5
I'm with you. I thought it was a fun season and the flaws weren't any different than they've been for the last few years, I think people are just more primed to notice and gripe about them. People are judging it for what they think it could have been, not what it was. No, I really am judging it for what it was as well as what it could have been! I think we've established our wildly different levels of Clara-tolerance .
And I'm not saying it was a perfect season by any means. I would much prefer more time be spent of adventures then establishing a lukewarm romance that never led anywhere satisfying. But it wasn't THAT bad. There were still a lot of things to like.
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Post by 🐍 huss 🐍 on Nov 30, 2014 13:55:49 GMT -5
Reposting this from the Doctor Who audio/novel forum: www.bigfinish.com/news/v/doctor-who-special-offer-on-the-entire-eighth-doctor-seriesBig Finish is having an excellent sale on Paul McGann's solo series this weekend. Three money-units per episode is a super deal (I believe I paid five). In my opinion the third series is kind of weak, but the first two in particular are really great. (I'll be getting to all of these eventually in my reviews. Probably!)
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Post by 🐍 huss 🐍 on Jun 27, 2015 11:18:09 GMT -5
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Post by Prole Hole on Jun 27, 2015 13:57:44 GMT -5
🐍 huss 🐍 - I did! And I'm super-psyched about it! I always loved River and Alex Kingston in the role, even when she was handed sub-standard material. I'm really interested to see what she's going to be like interacting with the McGann Doctor and freed of the need of keeping on-screen continuity straight. Some of the other material looks interesting as well - especially "old Doctors meet new series monsters". The Churchill thing I don't especially care about, but I'll give them a go of course. What's your take?
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Post by 🐍 huss 🐍 on Jun 27, 2015 15:53:14 GMT -5
Whoops, I meant also to tag Alasdair Wilkins. Big Finish. River Song. Thoughts? Prole Hole, I don't have any concrete thoughts as of yet, other than "I hope it's good." I like McGann and I like Kingston (though I agree she was often underserved by the scripts) and hey Liv is going to be in this too, that is awesome. This year at Comic-Con, Doctor Who and Sherlock are basically running back-to-back in different rooms. Which means I can only attend one because of crowds and lines. I would choose Who, because CAPALDI, but then I found out Sherlock is bringing Rupert Graves along this year. And while I bet Capaldi will be back next year, I think this is probably the only time I will get to see Graves in person and he is my ♥ ♥ ♥
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Post by Alasdair Wilkins on Jun 28, 2015 6:56:42 GMT -5
Whoops, I meant also to tag Alasdair Wilkins. Big Finish. River Song. Thoughts? Prole Hole, I don't have any concrete thoughts as of yet, other than "I hope it's good." I like McGann and I like Kingston (though I agree she was often underserved by the scripts) and hey Liv is going to be in this too, that is awesome. I'm generally pretty over the damn moon about all of this. Weirdly, it's the huge presence of McGann that I'm most excited about: I love that he'll be popping up in Diary, I love that River's other big role will be in his Doom Coalition 2, and I love that 8th's role in Classic Doctors/New Monsters will be taking on a bunch of Sontarans right at the cusp of the Time War (with him in Night of the Doctor-era garb to boot). The active integration of old and new there is super intriguing to me, with McGann acting as the connective tissue. And quite right, too. More generally, the return of Alex Kingston is very welcome, and I think it's probably the most logical way to continue River's story: I hope the new series might get back to her one of these days, especially since a 12/River pairing strikes me as one with loads of potential, but this also feels like a very logical place to send her, particularly if the new series is leery about treading on all 11 and River had together. The Classic Doctors/New Monsters set should be loads of fun, even if my first reaction to the monsters lineup was, "Huh, this is all good, but, uh, the new series really doesn't have a deep bench when it comes to monsters, huh?" That said, 5th/Angels and 8th/Time War makes it worth the price of admission alone, and 6th/Judoon is such a perfect pairing. I have the hardest time getting a read on 7th/Sycorax, though I hope they go all in on the darker 7th; if not the straight-up NA 7th, then at least the older, craftier 7th of the later Ace/Hex runs and the second Klein trilogy. Would be a really cool counterpoint to the Sycorax's original tussle with the ebullient (if also dark, if only in flashes) 10th. As for the Churchill thing ... I agree that it's the spare of this set (especially since I'm not the absolute biggest fan of Ian McNeice's Churchill, though I do remember really liking him in Wedding of River Song), but as someone on the BF forums pointed out, this sounds like a glorified companion chronicle for Docs 9-11, which really suggests BF straight-up has a new series licence at this point (or at least one that covers the first 50 years of the show; I think there's some thought that 12 onward is still separate legally?) and it's just a matter of resources/logistics before they do stories with those Doctors featuring the voices of those Doctors. Which is to say ... I'm feeling optimistic about the prospects of a 10th Doctor boxset in 2017. But honestly, I'm fine if that doesn't happen, especially if the 8th really can start to transition into being a hybrid classic/new Doctor, the way he was always meant to be.
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Post by Prole Hole on Jun 29, 2015 5:45:06 GMT -5
Alasdair Wilkins 🐍 huss 🐍 You know the more I think about this the more excited I am about it. I agree about McGann's involvement being one of the most exciting aspects of this, at least in part because he's no longer part of the "regular" 5/6/7/8 line-up of monthly releases and partly (no spoilers here for Hussy!) because I really think Dark Eyes ran out of steam by the end and I'm looking forward to having him doing something else (and hopefully something that won't feel the need to fall back on the Daleks yet again). It makes perfect sense to have the 8th Doctor be the connective tissue between the old and new series, so very thrilled about that, and anything that builds towards the sheer unmitigated awesomeness of Night Of The Doctor can only ever be a good thing. 10th Doctor Box Set - oh don't tempt me with such thoughts! Though if the licencing IS in place I'd say it's almost inevitable, what with Tennant's still-strong love of the show and his previous BF work. I know that about a year ago there was talk of BF finally getting to do their own thing with the new series, so I'm very happy it's coming to fruition. I think the choice of the New Series/Old Doctor monsters are... interesting. The Weeping Angels especially - how do you portray a race that are basically (aside from a couple of radio messages in Flesh And Stone) mute and entirely visual in the audio domain? Will be very interested to see how they tackle that. The Sycorax - erm ok. Sure. 6th/Judoon - yea that could work well for certain. There's plenty more New Series material the old Doctors could work with, though that's always the issue with the tending towards using the Daleks/Cybermen/Master for their overarching season plots/season finales - it doesn't give the New Series a lot of space to build its own Monster's Gallery. Certainly one of the great things about Season Six, for all its flaws, is that it allows some real mythology to be built around New Series monsters with the Silence rather than being wholly dependent on the old series. Hussy, I entirely understand your desire to go and see Mr Graves. As you know I pretty much worship at the feet of Mr Capaldi, so that's where I'd end up, but your choice is entirely understandable By the way Alasdair, I never really got the chance to say before but I greatly enjoyed your Debating Doctor Who podcasts - I came to them a bit after the event in the end so I never got a chance to mail in or try to contribute, but still, I though they were really interesting and I hope you'll keep up the good work!
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Post by Alasdair Wilkins on Jun 29, 2015 9:43:37 GMT -5
10th Doctor Box Set - oh don't tempt me with such thoughts! Though if the licencing IS in place I'd say it's almost inevitable, what with Tennant's still-strong love of the show and his previous BF work. I know that about a year ago there was talk of BF finally getting to do their own thing with the new series, so I'm very happy it's coming to fruition. I think the choice of the New Series/Old Doctor monsters are... interesting. The Weeping Angels especially - how do you portray a race that are basically (aside from a couple of radio messages in Flesh And Stone) mute and entirely visual in the audio domain? Will be very interested to see how they tackle that. The Sycorax - erm ok. Sure. 6th/Judoon - yea that could work well for certain. There's plenty more New Series material the old Doctors could work with, though that's always the issue with the tending towards using the Daleks/Cybermen/Master for their overarching season plots/season finales - it doesn't give the New Series a lot of space to build its own Monster's Gallery. Certainly one of the great things about Season Six, for all its flaws, is that it allows some real mythology to be built around New Series monsters with the Silence rather than being wholly dependent on the old series. I think the Angels should work, assuming they can use the same music stings that signal their movement in their various appearances. Also, Angel Bob has a pretty extensive role in "Flesh And Stone," so it's not out of the question that they can have a fairly chatty mouthpiece. I also wouldn't put it past BF to have come up with something -- possibly in consultation with Moffat -- that expands the Angels' repertoire in a way that's consistent with what we know but makes particular sense for the audio medium. The Sycorax are interesting in that they're really close to just being a blank slate; if BF can do something interesting with them, it would hardly be their first successful reclamation project. (For some reason, I do think 7 is a really good foe for them, But, again, there just is not a super deep bench of new series monsters: I'd argue for the Krillitanes (the long-necked variety, with or without the return of Anthony Stewart Head) as decent candidates, and the Vashta Nerada could potentially work; they're probably slightly less visual than the Angels, on balance. Of course the most intriguing possibility is the Silence, in that there's a readymade explanation for why the Doctor doesn't remember them in his 11th incarnation. I'll advocate right now for a 7th vs. The Silence story (hell, maybe a boxset), especially if we somehow find out the 7th Doctor is using that inability to remember as a weapon against his foes. I mean, that's just very 7th.
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Post by 🐍 huss 🐍 on Jun 29, 2015 10:37:33 GMT -5
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Post by Alasdair Wilkins on Jun 29, 2015 10:54:25 GMT -5
Coming in 2017: The Doctor's SilenceWhat could the Doctor do ... if he couldn't remember he'd done it?Starring the one incarnation where you're really not sure you want to know the answer...Also we can totally include River in this, because, again, the whole memory thing means it's continuity-proof.So also starring the one incarnation where you're really not sure how flirting would even work...(Okay, that's more than one incarnation)
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Post by Prole Hole on Jun 29, 2015 11:44:19 GMT -5
Alasdair Wilkins 🐍 huss 🐍 - Oh I completely agree with the Silence being a potentially terrific BF monster, it's one of the reasons I mentioned them. There's a lot of potential there, especially since their TV incarnation is just a bit muddled, and as you Alasdair they are the perfect "no continuity issues" monsters. And Seven could definitely be that manipulative - especially (and all apologies to Sophie for this) if he's not paired with Ace. Honestly, I've had all the Ace/7 adventures I can take for the time being, and events like the Kline triilogy just show how amazing McCoy can be. Silence Of The Doctor - these titles really write themselves don't they? For some reason I've always been interested in exploring a bit more of the Gelth from "The Unquiet Dead" - they're the first species that we encounter who have been directly affected by the Time War who have a whole episode structured round them but they are very under-used (fair enough,given their position in the show's run) and I think there could be a really interesting story as to what happened with them, especially with McGann's Doctor and the embracing of the Time War. And they SOUND good in "The Unquiet Dead" which helps a lot too (I want to say they have great radiophonics, but I suppose at some point I'm going to have to let that word go. Reluctantly). Oh, and I'm always keen on anything that expands Ecclestone's lone season (now if BF could tempt HIM back that would be something...).
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Post by Nathan Ford's Evil Twin on Jul 12, 2015 23:33:01 GMT -5
>.> <.<
So is the TV board the right place for me to start a thread for Big Finish reviews? Like I get that it's not TV but. But.
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Post by Nathan Ford's Evil Twin on Jul 13, 2015 8:40:46 GMT -5
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Post by 🐍 huss 🐍 on Jul 2, 2017 1:51:43 GMT -5
I'm bummed that Alasdair is leaving AVC.
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