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Post by Mr. Greene's October Surprise on Jul 11, 2019 5:54:42 GMT -5
...congratulations; we now all feel old:
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Post by Ben Grimm on Sept 24, 2021 9:48:18 GMT -5
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Post by liebkartoffel on Sept 24, 2021 10:09:26 GMT -5
Lame. But at least he'll better than Chibnall? I hope?
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Post by Ben Grimm on Sept 24, 2021 10:13:35 GMT -5
Lame. But at least he'll better than Chibnall? I hope? Not the highest anyone has set the bar (though Chibnall's second season was better than his first, for the most part). I've seen some speculation that Davies will only be there for a short time, because they're waiting for someone to be available. If so, I'd expect a high-profile Doctor who's only going to do a year or so term.
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Post by Prole Hole on Sept 27, 2021 8:14:48 GMT -5
Lame. But at least he'll better than Chibnall? I hope? Not the highest anyone has set the bar (though Chibnall's second season was better than his first, for the most part). I've seen some speculation that Davies will only be there for a short time, because they're waiting for someone to be available. If so, I'd expect a high-profile Doctor who's only going to do a year or so term. I'm 80% happy with this and 20% not. The 80% is that it's someone who has a clear love and passion for the show, is obviously over being burned out on the whole thing, and has (obviously) about as solid a track record as one could possibly hope for. On the other hand... I'm not massively thrilled to see the show going backwards. I'd rather they took a bigger swing, though if the waiting-in-the-wings theory is right I suppose that's OK in the same way that Barry Letts came back to help oversee John Nathan-Turner's first season way back when Tom Baker was still in the scarf. OTOH there was plenty of "oh Chibnall's only there because they're marking time until [SOMEONE'S FAVOURITE WRITER] is free, and that's not worked out, so words of caution all round I would suggest. I'm 100% that RTD's base-level of quality will be higher than Chibnall's but as liebkartoffel points out it's only really Chibnall's first season that's really weak, and even then a lot of the artistic instincts (no overarching plot, no returning monsters etc) are defensible even if the execution is very poor. And, Timeless Child bullshit aside, much of his second season is not only markedly better but it's actually turned out to be a pretty overall strong season. Sure, the TC stuff is fanwank of the worst order, but nobody claims Turn Left sucks just because Journey's End spectacularly shat the bed. Rewatching Chibnall's second season its actually matured very nicely (I recently watched chunks of it on a loooong train journey and would heartily recommend revisiting it) and only The Timeless Children (which still has a few great non-continuity moments) and Praxes being outright busts. Spyfall, Fugitive Of The Judoon and The Haunting Of Villa Diodati - the latter especially - are terrific, and Can You Hear Me? is actually pretty damned great as well. TL;DR Optimistically cautious.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Nov 1, 2021 12:57:59 GMT -5
Since no one's mentioned it yet, we watched the first episode of the new serial/season and it was fine, I suppose. Lots of setup, not a lot of clarity about what the hell was going on, at least one scene between Yaz and Dan the New Guy where I debated turning on close captions due to their accents, and the potential for something interesting. It felt very RTD to me, to be honest - the dog alien was part of that - and seems like Chibnall is finally embracing spectacle as part of his run (not that that all DW should be HUGE and EPIV, just that he was staying too far away from it in the past).
Thirteen also felt a little - I don't know if harsher is the right word, but less "we're all buddies and mates" than she has in the last few seasons. They were putting a spotlight on that (Yaz kept getting mad at her for hiding stuff) so I suspect it's a plot point.
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Post by Prole Hole on Nov 2, 2021 14:00:09 GMT -5
Since no one's mentioned it yet, we watched the first episode of the new serial/season and it was fine, I suppose. Lots of setup, not a lot of clarity about what the hell was going on, at least one scene between Yaz and Dan the New Guy where I debated turning on close captions due to their accents, and the potential for something interesting. It felt very RTD to me, to be honest - the dog alien was part of that - and seems like Chibnall is finally embracing spectacle as part of his run (not that that all DW should be HUGE and EPIV, just that he was staying too far away from it in the past). Thirteen also felt a little - I don't know if harsher is the right word, but less "we're all buddies and mates" than she has in the last few seasons. They were putting a spotlight on that (Yaz kept getting mad at her for hiding stuff) so I suspect it's a plot point. I too thought it was fine. I'll probably write up Flux once the six episodes are over rather than doing one by one, but reviewing an episode like this on its own makes a fairly limited amount of seise so I'm not going to. Saying that I mostly enjoyed what is, indeed, just a bunch of set-up but I rather liked the fact that it didn't hold the audience's hand. Yes it was a little bewildering in places, but there was also a confidence about it that I warmed to greatly. Things like the fact that the 13th Doctor was a little harsher is actually a good example - rather than trying to be everyone's mate it's ok to write her as having edges and borders and parts of herself that aren't just "wheee fam fun!" and that's of great benefit to the character. Lovely to see more of Yaz too and I love that Yaz had no compunction about calling the Doctor on her BS. John Bishop was... fine. I've never seen him act before but he neither blew my socks off nor stank up the joint. We'll see where that goes. Of course it wasn't perfect - it's a Chibnall script after all - but it's left me cautiously optimistic, which after The Timeless Children and a bog-standard holiday special I wasn't really expecting. The Flux itself seemed like a very real threat in the way that a lot of Doctor Who threats don't - cough Davros wants to destroy the universe cough - and little moments like the reveal of the vast alien fleet not being an invasion force but in fact quite the reverse was a genuinely nice moment, so credit where it's due. Even the brief Weeping Angel moment worked well and Claire is intriguing enough. So basically - we're off, don't fuck it up.
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Post by Prole Hole on Nov 8, 2021 12:22:10 GMT -5
Two for two - that was another solid episode!
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on May 8, 2022 22:05:42 GMT -5
Pretty cool! (Although I'll admit I'm not looking forward to the episode where Doctor Who sits us down and keeps it real about race.)
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matt
Grandfathered In
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Post by matt on May 8, 2022 22:22:54 GMT -5
I don't care who the Doctor is(they are not going to cast a shit actor as the Doctor). I do care that RTD is back, who with time is definitely the best showrunner NuWho has had. Who knows if he will actually get the show to be better, but I will take his lows with his highs.
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Post by liebkartoffel on May 8, 2022 23:48:56 GMT -5
I don't care who the Doctor is(they are not going to cast a shit actor as the Doctor). I do care that RTD is back, who with time is definitely the best showrunner NuWho has had. Who knows if he will actually get the show to be better, but I will take his lows with his highs. I'd still give the edge Moffat. Yeah, there were some clunkers with "Kill the Moon," "Sleep No More," the entirety of series 7, etc., and he made a critical mistake in assuming that audiences would be as enamored with River Song as he clearly was, but I'll take Moffat's foibles over RTD's any day. RTD's lows--*cough* booty-shaking farting aliens *cough* *cough* lightning zombie Master *cough* *cough cough cough* "Love and Monsters" *cough cough hack choke wheeze gurgle faint*--were very, very low indeed.
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matt
Grandfathered In
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Post by matt on May 9, 2022 0:14:02 GMT -5
I don't care who the Doctor is(they are not going to cast a shit actor as the Doctor). I do care that RTD is back, who with time is definitely the best showrunner NuWho has had. Who knows if he will actually get the show to be better, but I will take his lows with his highs. I'd still give the edge Moffat. Yeah, there were some clunkers with "Kill the Moon," "Sleep No More," the entirety of series 7, etc., and he made a critical mistake in assuming that audiences would be as enamored with River Song as he clearly was, but I'll take Moffat's foibles over RTD's any day. RTD's lows--*cough* booty-shaking farting aliens *cough* *cough* lightning zombie Master *cough* *cough cough cough* "Love and Monsters" *cough cough hack choke wheeze gurgle faint*--were very, very low indeed. Other than the doctor as Jesus in series 3. All of RTDs mishaps are really down to single episodes that can be skipped. Moffat's plotting turned out to be a fucking mess for long arcs imo. His only good series was the first he did. The Eccelston series and series 4 were great, series 4 probably being my favorite of NuWho. And Series 2 and 3 had good episodes throughout.
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on May 9, 2022 1:22:32 GMT -5
I don't care who the Doctor is(they are not going to cast a shit actor as the Doctor). I do care that RTD is back, who with time is definitely the best showrunner NuWho has had. Who knows if he will actually get the show to be better, but I will take his lows with his highs. I'd still give the edge Moffat. Yeah, there were some clunkers with "Kill the Moon," "Sleep No More," the entirety of series 7, etc., and he made a critical mistake in assuming that audiences would be as enamored with River Song as he clearly was, but I'll take Moffat's foibles over RTD's any day. RTD's lows--*cough* booty-shaking farting aliens *cough* *cough* lightning zombie Master *cough* *cough cough cough* "Love and Monsters" *cough cough hack choke wheeze gurgle faint*--were very, very low indeed. Wait, there are people who didn't like the three episodes dedicated to the antics of farting aliens in Blairite cosplay?... I'm kidding, of course, I know people hated the whole Slitheen plot, but stuff like that is a feature of DW, not a bug, and the reason the Moffat years were mostly no fun was that they so desperately wanted to be Babylon 5 instead of sci-fi edutainment Monty Python for children.
Anyway, what I'm saying is, the best possible showrunner for nu-Who would be the Horrible Histories guys.
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Post by liebkartoffel on May 9, 2022 7:23:05 GMT -5
I'd still give the edge Moffat. Yeah, there were some clunkers with "Kill the Moon," "Sleep No More," the entirety of series 7, etc., and he made a critical mistake in assuming that audiences would be as enamored with River Song as he clearly was, but I'll take Moffat's foibles over RTD's any day. RTD's lows--*cough* booty-shaking farting aliens *cough* *cough* lightning zombie Master *cough* *cough cough cough* "Love and Monsters" *cough cough hack choke wheeze gurgle faint*--were very, very low indeed. Wait, there are people who didn't like the three episodes dedicated to the antics of farting aliens in Blairite cosplay?... I'm kidding, of course, I know people hated the whole Slitheen plot, but stuff like that is a feature of DW, not a bug, and the reason the Moffat years were mostly no fun was that they so desperately wanted to be Babylon 5 instead of sci-fi edutainment Monty Python for children.
Anyway, what I'm saying is, the best possible showrunner for nu-Who would be the Horrible Histories guys.
Now, see, you lost me at first but damned if you didn't win me over with that last sentence.
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Post by Floyd Diabolical Barber on Jun 12, 2022 22:44:57 GMT -5
I don't care, in my head this is canon
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Post by Prole Hole on Jun 14, 2022 5:26:12 GMT -5
I don't care, in my head this is canon The great thing about Doctor Who is that there is no canon - it's all true. Even the bits that contradict each other. Especially the bits that contradict each other. Peter Cushing is canon. So is Rowan Atkinson. And Joanna Lumley! Three Atlantis's (Atlantii?). All of it! The whole, glorious, wonderful mess!
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Post by Ben Grimm on Oct 26, 2022 15:35:52 GMT -5
Well that, like most of Chibnall's run, was a giant incoherent mess. Nice seeing everyone again, though.
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Post by Prole Hole on Nov 2, 2022 9:26:58 GMT -5
Well that, like most of Chibnall's run, was a giant incoherent mess. Nice seeing everyone again, though. I found it stands up considerably better on a second watch. It's a rush through it all for sure, but I was amazed by how much actually makes sense when you can pick up on the details. If it's not the best regeneration story ever (and it isn't) it's not the worst, not even the worst of Nu Who. Best case scenario and didn't shit the bed (also: credit for no Timeless Child BS).
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Post by William T. Goat, Esq. on Nov 1, 2023 21:35:17 GMT -5
I'm irrationally excited about the return of the Celestial Toymaker to Doctor Who. As a puzzle geek, the concept of the character evokes nostalgia of playing with action figures as a child, inventing scenarios in which the villains force the heroes to play games and solve puzzles for no good reason. As a adult, I now realize it's a dumb concept, and I'm trying to lower my expectations.
(I'm also remembering that my first encounter with the character was not the Michael Gough incarnation, but a fanfic I read in a Doctor Who Fan Club of America newsletter, before I ever saw any black & white episodes. The Toymaker kidnapped the 5th Doctor/Tegan/Nyssa/Adric and placed their minds in robot bodies without their knowledge. If I recall correctly, the Doctor accidentally cuts his arm, and the other characters have to point it out to him because he doesn't feel the pain. He looks down and sees oil leaking out instead of blood, sees Terminator-style metal pistons moving around inside the wound, and faints from shock. Mind-blowing for a kid, and I doubt the actual show can live up to that)
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Dellarigg
AV Clubber
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Post by Dellarigg on Nov 2, 2023 5:45:23 GMT -5
I don't know if any of you dwellers in our former colonies have a means of hacking into the BBC iPlayer, but if so, they've just put up hundreds and hundreds of the old episodes. Some are missing for copyright reasons (the very first story, in fact, which seems a bit of a disappointment), and some are merely animated, but there's a load there. I indulged my childhood last night by watching The Brain of Morbius from the Tom Baker era. Amazing that this riff on Frankenstein, with added decapitations and burnings at the stake, was considered suitable for children - an early memory is of my dad reading about it in the paper and preparing me ahead of time for what was to come; I would've been three, almost four, but I coped just fine. On the downside, of course, it's equally amazing to think how badly an actor would have to fuck up their lines before the director yelled 'Cut!' and called for another take, but that's the BBC for you. I'll watch a few more (probably The Daemons tonight), but if I'm honest, most of my love for it came from the Target novelisations rather than the actual TV show - there was no way of seeing the Jon Pertwee episodes when I was most interested in seeing them, for example, so all I had was the books, and an imagination unbound by BBC budgets.
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Dellarigg
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Post by Dellarigg on Nov 4, 2023 8:20:25 GMT -5
I don't know if any of you dwellers in our former colonies have a means of hacking into the BBC iPlayer, but if so, they've just put up hundreds and hundreds of the old episodes. Some are missing for copyright reasons (the very first story, in fact, which seems a bit of a disappointment), and some are merely animated, but there's a load there. I indulged my childhood last night by watching The Brain of Morbius from the Tom Baker era. Amazing that this riff on Frankenstein, with added decapitations and burnings at the stake, was considered suitable for children - an early memory is of my dad reading about it in the paper and preparing me ahead of time for what was to come; I would've been three, almost four, but I coped just fine. On the downside, of course, it's equally amazing to think how badly an actor would have to fuck up their lines before the director yelled 'Cut!' and called for another take, but that's the BBC for you. I'll watch a few more (probably The Daemons tonight), but if I'm honest, most of my love for it came from the Target novelisations rather than the actual TV show - there was no way of seeing the Jon Pertwee episodes when I was most interested in seeing them, for example, so all I had was the books, and an imagination unbound by BBC budgets. I watched The Daemons the other night, and idly looked up when it was originally broadcast: the first episode went out on the day my parents got married. I realise this is of no interest to anyone other than me, but here it is anyway. Anyway, The Daemons wasn't great, but I was amused by The Master in occultist mode quoting Aleister Crowley.
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Nov 4, 2023 11:41:09 GMT -5
I'm irrationally excited about the return of the Celestial Toymaker to Doctor Who. As a puzzle geek, the concept of the character evokes nostalgia of playing with action figures as a child, inventing scenarios in which the villains force the heroes to play games and solve puzzles for no good reason. As a adult, I now realize it's a dumb concept, and I'm trying to lower my expectations. (I'm also remembering that my first encounter with the character was not the Michael Gough incarnation, but a fanfic I read in a Doctor Who Fan Club of America newsletter, before I ever saw any black & white episodes. The Toymaker kidnapped the 5th Doctor/Tegan/Nyssa/Adric and placed their minds in robot bodies without their knowledge. If I recall correctly, the Doctor accidentally cuts his arm, and the other characters have to point it out to him because he doesn't feel the pain. He looks down and sees oil leaking out instead of blood, sees Terminator-style metal pistons moving around inside the wound, and faints from shock. Mind-blowing for a kid, and I doubt the actual show can live up to that) I am extremely baffled by every aspect of this character's return, because
1) The primary thing the Celestial Toymaker is known for is... being really racist ("celestial" is meant in the dated-even-by-'60s-standards sense of a synonym for "Oriental" and in his first episode they straight up drop an N-word?? Insane) 2) He's being played by Neil Patrick Harris?? What the hell lmao. Unless they have the character singing, I mean (which would actually be very, very cool).
I don't know, maybe I'll tune in for one of these specials - could be fun. Who doesn't love the Rusty/Tennant/Tate years? (Don't answer that.)
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Nov 18, 2023 8:35:00 GMT -5
I don't know if any of you dwellers in our former colonies have a means of hacking into the BBC iPlayer, but if so, they've just put up hundreds and hundreds of the old episodes. Some are missing for copyright reasons (the very first story, in fact, which seems a bit of a disappointment), and some are merely animated, but there's a load there. I indulged my childhood last night by watching The Brain of Morbius from the Tom Baker era. Amazing that this riff on Frankenstein, with added decapitations and burnings at the stake, was considered suitable for children - an early memory is of my dad reading about it in the paper and preparing me ahead of time for what was to come; I would've been three, almost four, but I coped just fine. On the downside, of course, it's equally amazing to think how badly an actor would have to fuck up their lines before the director yelled 'Cut!' and called for another take, but that's the BBC for you. I'll watch a few more (probably The Daemons tonight), but if I'm honest, most of my love for it came from the Target novelisations rather than the actual TV show - there was no way of seeing the Jon Pertwee episodes when I was most interested in seeing them, for example, so all I had was the books, and an imagination unbound by BBC budgets. In the United States at least, the free streaming service Tubi also seems to have added a ton of old Dr. Who episodes.
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Dellarigg
AV Clubber
This is a public service announcement - with guitars
Posts: 7,634
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Post by Dellarigg on Nov 18, 2023 9:24:16 GMT -5
I don't know if any of you dwellers in our former colonies have a means of hacking into the BBC iPlayer, but if so, they've just put up hundreds and hundreds of the old episodes. Some are missing for copyright reasons (the very first story, in fact, which seems a bit of a disappointment), and some are merely animated, but there's a load there. I indulged my childhood last night by watching The Brain of Morbius from the Tom Baker era. Amazing that this riff on Frankenstein, with added decapitations and burnings at the stake, was considered suitable for children - an early memory is of my dad reading about it in the paper and preparing me ahead of time for what was to come; I would've been three, almost four, but I coped just fine. On the downside, of course, it's equally amazing to think how badly an actor would have to fuck up their lines before the director yelled 'Cut!' and called for another take, but that's the BBC for you. I'll watch a few more (probably The Daemons tonight), but if I'm honest, most of my love for it came from the Target novelisations rather than the actual TV show - there was no way of seeing the Jon Pertwee episodes when I was most interested in seeing them, for example, so all I had was the books, and an imagination unbound by BBC budgets. In the United States at least, the free streaming service Tubi also seems to have added a ton of old Dr. Who episodes. I watched one of the William Hartnell's last night, The Aztecs. The old boy clearly didn't give much of a shit about learning his lines or hitting his marks.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Nov 18, 2023 10:02:47 GMT -5
In the United States at least, the free streaming service Tubi also seems to have added a ton of old Dr. Who episodes. I watched one of the William Hartnell's last night, The Aztecs. The old boy clearly didn't give much of a shit about learning his lines or hitting his marks. One of the very few Doctor Who stories I've seen is that very first arc with Hartnell as the Doctor that you said was missing from BBC iPlayer (it also doesn't appear to be available on Tubi). It wasn't very good (I don't know how highly any of this era of the show is rated by most people), and mainly I was struck by what a thoroughly unlikeable asshole he was. It was the closest thing there was to any charm to the story, this dogged insistence that on the part of the show that you, the viewer, actually care about this incredibly disagreeable and argumentative old man who just generally kind of sucks as a person.
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Post by Prole Hole on Nov 27, 2023 8:37:37 GMT -5
In the United States at least, the free streaming service Tubi also seems to have added a ton of old Dr. Who episodes. I watched one of the William Hartnell's last night, The Aztecs. The old boy clearly didn't give much of a shit about learning his lines or hitting his marks. I know it's a familiar excuse/justification but a lot of that is him acting. When he wants to, he pulls everything into focus and it's remarkable - the dodderiness and stumbling is an intentional character trait (that early in the show. Come the end of Season 2/3 the reason for it is much sadder).
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Post by Prole Hole on Nov 27, 2023 8:41:19 GMT -5
I watched one of the William Hartnell's last night, The Aztecs. The old boy clearly didn't give much of a shit about learning his lines or hitting his marks. One of the very few Doctor Who stories I've seen is that very first arc with Hartnell as the Doctor that you said was missing from BBC iPlayer (it also doesn't appear to be available on Tubi). It wasn't very good (I don't know how highly any of this era of the show is rated by most people), and mainly I was struck by what a thoroughly unlikeable asshole he was. It was the closest thing there was to any charm to the story, this dogged insistence that on the part of the show that you, the viewer, actually care about this incredibly disagreeable and argumentative old man who just generally kind of sucks as a person. The first three stories - An Unearthly Child/The Daleks/The Edge of Destruction are essentially an arc of him his starting out a grumpy arsehole and developing, through experience and exposure to Barbara and Ian, into the person we now think of as The Doctor. The Edge of Destruction is the one that really makes the change, and there's a huge (and brilliant) confrontation between the Doctor and Barbara that visibly changes him. This arc stumbles a little since it wasn't a "planned arc" in modern terms (they just thought, "this is too much, tone it down a bit" and they already had to re-record the pilot to tone that down too, among other reasons) and also the story that follows on from that, which would cement the "new" approach is Marco Polo and missing entirely from the archives.
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Post by Prole Hole on Nov 29, 2023 16:23:15 GMT -5
Too lazy to post here and sort out the formatting so... The new Doctor Who "special" review is here. The tl;dr version is "meh, we waited all that time for that?"
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Post by Ben Grimm on Nov 29, 2023 16:44:30 GMT -5
Too lazy to post here and sort out the formatting so... The new Doctor Who "special" review is here. The tl;dr version is "meh, we waited all that time for that?" I thought it was perfectly cromulant. Really liked Miriam Margolyes, liked the "eat shit JK Rowling," but parts of it were super-clunky and it felt much more like a regular episode than any kind of anniversary special. I think if it had been episode four of season 14 it would have gotten a better reception.
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Post by Prole Hole on Jun 27, 2024 4:41:08 GMT -5
What a shame RTD has forgotten a story can conclude, rather than simply stop.
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