|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 21, 2015 17:07:03 GMT -5
Roy Batty's Pet Dove Bingo. No characters from Force Awakens have appeared on Rebels (nor are they likely to, as the series is set shortly before the events of the original trilogy - which, to circle back to my favourite Imperial, has allowed the show to use Tarkin in a recurring role.)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2015 17:07:54 GMT -5
Yes but he was operating for years beforehand. I assume he built a reputation within the Empire (as the recent Star Wars Rebels is showing) You're talking about Vader, right? Not Darth Lame Mask-Crossguardsaber? Yeah, he is. I haven't seen the actual series yet, but I did catch one really cool battle between Vader and two of the Rebels on Youtube.
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 21, 2015 18:13:40 GMT -5
To completely change tacks: Since both Oscar Isaacs and Adam Driver are in Star Wars and Inside Llewyn Davis, it was kind of asking for a gratuitous Star Wars parody, but this is actually pretty good.
|
|
|
Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Oct 21, 2015 18:50:11 GMT -5
There needs to be an MTV Behind the Music for Figrin D'an and the Modal Nodes.
|
|
|
Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Oct 21, 2015 20:32:36 GMT -5
So if all the people thinking "Luke isn't in the trailers because he's totes evil now" are right, that would be a super dumb twist, right?
|
|
|
Post by Return of the Thin Olive Duke on Oct 21, 2015 23:22:41 GMT -5
Okay, Owl, how about this: The Force is a relatively widespread religion in the core worlds, where the bulk of the leadership on both sides comes from (think Spain in the Middle Ages, with a Muslim elite ruling over a predominantly Catholic populace), but the actual magical qualities are dismissed as simply part of the mythos. The Jedi are simply remembered as really, really skilled fighters of a type that could've existed (and did) in a world without random projectile weapons.
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 22, 2015 6:55:52 GMT -5
So if all the people thinking "Luke isn't in the trailers because he's totes evil now" are right, that would be a super dumb twist, right? A lot of people were saying that Benedict Cumberbatch in Star Trek Into Darkness was Khan. I said there was no way an actor that white would play Khan, so dismissed it out of hand. *cough*
|
|
|
Post by Hawkguy on Oct 22, 2015 7:21:14 GMT -5
Yes but he was operating for years beforehand. I assume he built a reputation within the Empire (as the recent Star Wars Rebels is showing) You're talking about Vader, right? Not Darth Lame Mask-Crossguardsaber? Yes Vader. not Kylo Ren
|
|
|
Post by Hawkguy on Oct 22, 2015 7:22:51 GMT -5
So if all the people thinking "Luke isn't in the trailers because he's totes evil now" are right, that would be a super dumb twist, right? Yes it would be dumb but there were a lot of people thinking he was Kylo which is especially dumb since we've seen him with out his mask and its clearly Adam Driver
|
|
|
Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Oct 22, 2015 8:32:32 GMT -5
So if all the people thinking "Luke isn't in the trailers because he's totes evil now" are right, that would be a super dumb twist, right? A lot of people were saying that Benedict Cumberbatch in Star Trek Into Darkness was Khan. I said there was no way an actor that white would play Khan, so dismissed it out of hand. *cough* Well that's one of the questions going into this, isn't? Is JJ Abrams somebody who learns his lessons?
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 22, 2015 8:38:31 GMT -5
Well that's one of the questions going into this, isn't? Is JJ Abrams somebody who learns his lessons? I don't think he has: At least, he has kept his Star Wars marketing campaign shrouded in even more secrecy than he did Star Trek; and he was quite forthright in interviews leading up to STID how he preferred movies to surprise their audiences that way. So undoubtedly his new movie will have a shock moment or two akin to Cumber-Khan: Whether or not the moments work is the rub. Luke definitely isn't Kylo Ren, however Kylo Ren is only one of the Knights of Ren. Luke could be their leader - or he could be a secretive Jedi who waits until the third act to show up.
|
|
|
Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Oct 22, 2015 8:55:05 GMT -5
Well that's one of the questions going into this, isn't? Is JJ Abrams somebody who learns his lessons? I don't think he has: At least, he has kept his Star Wars marketing campaign shrouded in even more secrecy than he did Star Trek; and he was quite forthright in interviews leading up to STID how he preferred movies to surprise their audiences that way. So undoubtedly his new movie will have a shock moment or two akin to Cumber-Khan: Whether or not the moments work is the rub. Luke definitely isn't Kylo Ren, however Kylo Ren is only one of the Knights of Ren. Luke could be their leader - or he could be a secretive Jedi who waits until the third act to show up. Eh, there's still a difference between going for a dumb shock (a la Into Darkness) and not wanting to give everything away in the trailers in order to keep a few surprises.
The one thing here that I think helps him avoid falling into the trap of the former: this is a continuation, not a reboot. He was damned no matter what way he went about a Khan movie (which is why I thought he should have done a Trek movie about literally anything else).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2015 11:44:23 GMT -5
Please, Disney isn't going to let Abrams pull a Khanberbatch, and neither, I wager, will Lawrence Kasdan.
|
|
|
Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Oct 22, 2015 16:41:16 GMT -5
So if all the people thinking "Luke isn't in the trailers because he's totes evil now" are right, that would be a super dumb twist, right? A lot of people were saying that Benedict Cumberbatch in Star Trek Into Darkness was Khan. I said there was no way an actor that white would play Khan, so dismissed it out of hand. *cough* Spoiler alert: you were wrong; Cumberbatch did play Khan in STID.
|
|
|
Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Oct 22, 2015 16:47:41 GMT -5
He was damned no matter what way he went about a Khan movie (which is why I thought he should have done a Trek movie about literally anything else). [/p][/quote] Even a movie about that Racist Stereotype Planet from Beardless-Riker-Era TNG where Yar has to fight that guy's wife because the guy wants her to be his new wife or whatever? I forget whether the actual name of the planet was Thisisbasicallywhatwethinkafricaislike-9, or Remindusagainwhystartrekisconsideredbysometobeaprogressiveshow-7, but it was definitely SUPER racist. Would even that have been a better route for STID to take than Cumberkhan?
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 22, 2015 17:00:12 GMT -5
Roy Batty's Pet Dove Well, it wouldn't be daunted by trying to be the follow up act to a beloved Star Trek story, so it'd have that going for it.
|
|
|
Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Oct 22, 2015 17:14:44 GMT -5
Roy Batty's Pet Dove actually, I would consider that a lower risk, higher reward route than doing a Khan movie. Yea, there's a good chance you still end up with something vaguely racist, but at least when the movie is lousy you aren't shitting on the undisputed classic of the series. And if you actually managed to redeem that concept into something good, that's a way more impressive feat than making a good Khan movie.
|
|
|
Post by Powerthirteen on Oct 22, 2015 18:06:41 GMT -5
My theory is that Luke is in hiding, afraid of the dark side's allure for reasons to be explained, but that at the end of Episode VII our Attractive Young Leads will begin training to become Jedi with him in order to conquer the resurgent Dark Side. What I just realized is, why are we assuming that the Knights of Ren will be conquered in this movie? It's entirely possible that Boyega loses that climactic lightsaber fight in the snow.
|
|
|
Post by King Charles’s Butterfly on Oct 22, 2015 20:07:39 GMT -5
So if all the people thinking "Luke isn't in the trailers because he's totes evil now" are right, that would be a super dumb twist, right? Yes it would be dumb but there were a lot of people thinking he was Kylo which is especially dumb since we've seen him with out his mask and its clearly Adam Driver In an Andy Kaufman-esque twist it turns out Mark Hamill’s been playing Driver this whole time.
|
|
|
Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Oct 22, 2015 20:16:53 GMT -5
My theory is that Luke is in hiding, afraid of the dark side's allure for reasons to be explained, but that at the end of Episode VII our Attractive Young Leads will begin training to become Jedi with him in order to conquer the resurgent Dark Side. What I just realized is, why are we assuming that the Knights of Ren will be conquered in this movie? It's entirely possible that Boyega loses that climactic lightsaber fight in the snow. I actually think this is likely. If I was taking over the Star Wars franchise and was trying to learn from what went wrong in the prequels, one of the first things on my list would be "sitting up a whole new set of bad guys every movie = bad idea"
|
|
|
Post by UnarmedAndDangerousVorta on Oct 22, 2015 22:59:41 GMT -5
He was damned no matter what way he went about a Khan movie (which is why I thought he should have done a Trek movie about literally anything else). [/p][/quote] Even a movie about that Racist Stereotype Planet from Beardless-Riker-Era TNG where Yar has to fight that guy's wife because the guy wants her to be his new wife or whatever? I forget whether the actual name of the planet was Thisisbasicallywhatwethinkafricaislike-9, or Remindusagainwhystartrekisconsideredbysometobeaprogressiveshow-7, but it was definitely SUPER racist. Would even that have been a better route for STID to take than Cumberkhan?[/quote] If given the choice I would much rather watch Code of Honor 3 times back to back over Into Darkness. All the many problems aside, Code is basically a TOS Mudd episode with an Amok Time flare. It is so astonishingly not perfect, but it does display progressive ideals by having the protagonists mostly unwilling to achieve things through force and respect the cultures they encounter and a willingness to attempt challenge gender and racial stereotypes (even as poorly as it does). I can easily recognize it as Trek. So I guess I've defended what is widely regarded as one of the worst episodes in Trek. May God have mercy on my soul. Into Darkness is what happens when a guy who's heard about Trek stories and memes third hand decides something like that would make a fantastic demo reel for Star Wars. So little of the story makes sense in it's own context and even less in the context of the larger canon. For all it's problems Code of honor makes sense as a story even if the story is kinda dumb. The whitewashing of Khan, which turned him into the opposite of a subversion of white supremacy, is also something I'm not super content with. Roy Batty's Pet Dove actually, I would consider that a lower risk, higher reward route than doing a Khan movie. Yea, there's a good chance you still end up with something vaguely racist, but at least when the movie is lousy you aren't shitting on the undisputed classic of the series. And if you actually managed to redeem that concept into something good, that's a way more impressive feat than making a good Khan movie. You could make a significantly less racist version by keeping the casting of the Ligonians the same and diversifying the main cast while also increasing their on screen tech level and removing the kidnapping. I suspect a version of the that episode with the cast of DS9 though otherwise almost unchanged would have been better received and only criticized as being pretty sexist. We could've had a good Khan movie if they had the Botany Bay be discovered by the Klingons, have that ship be taken over and end up with the supermen stranded on some random planet by the Enterprise after the chase has escalated tensions between Earth and Qo'noS. Basically Space Seed with galactic political stakes and setup for like 2 or 3 sequels. It avoids the racist implications you get faithfully remaking Space Seed with a brown guy and the racist implications of casting (or not casting) a brown guy in the 9/11 allegory that we got. We would even get the bonus of not making the Federation a bunch of warhawk fascists.
|
|
|
Post by UnarmedAndDangerousVorta on Oct 22, 2015 23:07:17 GMT -5
My theory is that Luke is in hiding, afraid of the dark side's allure for reasons to be explained, but that at the end of Episode VII our Attractive Young Leads will begin training to become Jedi with him in order to conquer the resurgent Dark Side. What I just realized is, why are we assuming that the Knights of Ren will be conquered in this movie? It's entirely possible that Boyega loses that climactic lightsaber fight in the snow. I actually think this is likely. If I was taking over the Star Wars franchise and was trying to learn from what went wrong in the prequels, one of the first things on my list would be "sitting up a whole new set of bad guys every movie = bad idea" especially since there is going to be one of these a year. It would be hard to make that compelling each time.
|
|
|
Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Oct 23, 2015 8:22:59 GMT -5
I actually think this is likely. If I was taking over the Star Wars franchise and was trying to learn from what went wrong in the prequels, one of the first things on my list would be "sitting up a whole new set of bad guys every movie = bad idea" especially since there is going to be one of these a year. It would be hard to make that compelling each time. The new trilogy is coming out on a yearly schedule? Or is that including the potentially skippable spin-off movies?
|
|
|
Post by Hawkguy on Oct 23, 2015 8:27:02 GMT -5
especially since there is going to be one of these a year. It would be hard to make that compelling each time. The new trilogy is coming out on a yearly schedule? Or is that including the potentially skippable spin-off movies? the anthologies will be in between each trilogy movie
|
|
|
Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Oct 23, 2015 8:30:49 GMT -5
UnarmedAndDangerousVorta I still contend that doing a new Khan movie at all was a terrible idea, but if they were going to do it, I agree that a re-imagining of Space Seed would have been a much better idea than trying to remix the most memorable beats of Wrath of Khan. I also like the idea of using Khan as a catalyst for conflict with the Klingons.
|
|
|
Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Oct 23, 2015 8:53:16 GMT -5
Why isn't anybody talking about the possibility that Lucasfilm/Disney is just holding Luke out of the trailers to screw with people? It's a good way to goose internet speculation and buzz even more, holding out one of the returning cast trio. You can't do it with Leia because I don't think it would be as big of a deal and you'd also get a lot of 'Is Star Wars disrespecting their one iconic female character' bad press. You can't do it with Han because everybody would just assume that Harrison Ford was being an old crank and just didn't have a big part in the movie. But Luke...Hamill is such a gung-ho, good sport, you hold him out of the previews and everybody goes crazy trying to figure out the big surprise ahead of time, even if there really isn't one.
|
|
|
Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 23, 2015 9:00:54 GMT -5
You can't do it with Leia because I don't think it would be as big of a deal and you'd also get a lot of 'Is Star Wars disrespecting their one iconic female character' bad press. Leia's had almost as little coverage, actually - just a single shot where her face is clearly visible. Of course, a lot of the cast have either not appeared or barely appeared* - no look at Andy Serkis, Max von Sydow or Lupita Nyong'o (besides the voiceover from the first trailer being apparently Serkis), not a shot of C-3PO I can recall; neither Adam Driver nor Gwendoline Christie are seen out of armour (although, in Vader/Fett manner, they may never be so seen for all we know.) For whatever reason it's heavily slanted on Boyega and Ridley - likely because they're the heroes and/or POV characters - and Oscar Isaacs, although he's not seen doing much more than Wedge Antilles usually did, and I imagine you don't cast Oscar Isaacs solely to Wedge Antilles him. I guess what I'm saying is, Luke aside, the movie has kept mum about a large chunk of the cast. A little different from Phantom Menace's blitz, which gave Darth Maul more lines than he got in the actual movie: *Based, that is, on what we know. The figure that appears at the start of the most recent trailer all clothed in white could be anyone.
|
|
|
Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Oct 23, 2015 9:30:57 GMT -5
*sigh* Darth Maul, such a waste.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2015 9:44:15 GMT -5
*Based, that is, on what we know. The figure that appears at the start of the most recent trailer all clothed in white could be anyone. That's definitely Rey. Action figures and LEGO confirm it. Rey's Speeder 75099
Rey's Speeder Bike
|
|
|
Post by King Charles’s Butterfly on Oct 24, 2015 15:54:27 GMT -5
I just love how this thread has turned into not just gained a big Star Trek component, but one centered on “Code of Honor.”
|
|