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Post by NerdInTheBasement on Oct 19, 2015 21:22:13 GMT -5
The final trailer is here!!
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Post by pairesta on Oct 20, 2015 5:37:33 GMT -5
Wonder why Luke hasn't been in any (other than a voiceover for the second trailer). Maybe he's just a cameo or doesn't come in until the end?
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 20, 2015 8:22:21 GMT -5
Wonder why Luke hasn't been in any (other than a voiceover for the second trailer). A voiceover that isn't even from this movie; it's entirely from Return of the Jedi (Mark Hamill said he recorded an echoing voice for the trailer, but that's it.) Besides one shot of a shadowy figure putting his robot hand on R2-D2, we've seen pretty much nothing of Luke.
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Post by pairesta on Oct 20, 2015 8:31:58 GMT -5
So there seems to be kind of a surprising implication in the trailer when Scavenger Girl is talking to Han and asking if the stories are true. To me that almost implies that what transpired in the OT has been forgotten or glossed over, which maybe implies that things didn't turn out so well after ROTJ, or at least is a departure from the since-discarded EU version.
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Post by Return of the Thin Olive Duke on Oct 20, 2015 11:18:41 GMT -5
So there seems to be kind of a surprising implication in the trailer when Scavenger Girl is talking to Han and asking if the stories are true. To me that almost implies that what transpired in the OT has been forgotten or glossed over, which maybe implies that things didn't turn out so well after ROTJ, or at least is a departure from the since-discarded EU version. Maybe the "Empire was good" guy at the National Review was rightβ after the death of the Emperor, the Galaxy went into a Warring States Period. There's a noticeable absence of new technology or new designs (except BB-8, which aesthetically belongs to the 1970s Rebellion era). But how much could the OT be forgotten in 32 years?
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Oct 20, 2015 11:27:19 GMT -5
So there seems to be kind of a surprising implication in the trailer when Scavenger Girl is talking to Han and asking if the stories are true. To me that almost implies that what transpired in the OT has been forgotten or glossed over, which maybe implies that things didn't turn out so well after ROTJ, or at least is a departure from the since-discarded EU version. Maybe the "Empire was good" guy at the National Review was rightβ after the death of the Emperor, the Galaxy went into a Warring States Period. There's a noticeable absence of new technology or new designs (except BB-8, which aesthetically belongs to the 1970s Rebellion era). But how much could the OT be forgotten in 32 years? Considering there was all of one Jedi and the Empire was probably firmly in control of the media/propaganda, it would make sense that people were aware of the Rebellion, but the PR guys tried to keep the kid with superpowers hush-hush. Do you think they really publicized that either of the Death Stars ever existed, after they both got blown up almost immediately after getting built?
It makes sense with what happened in the previous movies, doesn't it? In the original, even the high ranking admirals seem skeptical that Vader has any real power. Palpatine always kept his Sith status on the down low. Even in the prequels, how many Jedi are actually in the order? In a great big galaxy, it seems likely that only a tiny fraction of the people would ever actually see one. Look how ignorant we are of the actual details of international conflicts from the 70's and 80's. Now blow that ignorance up in scale from 1 planet to hundreds of populated systems.
I agree it's an interesting choice, and of course different than the route the EU decided to go, but it kind of makes perfect sense.
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Post by Return of the Thin Olive Duke on Oct 20, 2015 11:47:10 GMT -5
Maybe the "Empire was good" guy at the National Review was rightβ after the death of the Emperor, the Galaxy went into a Warring States Period. There's a noticeable absence of new technology or new designs (except BB-8, which aesthetically belongs to the 1970s Rebellion era). But how much could the OT be forgotten in 32 years? Considering there was all of one Jedi and the Empire was probably firmly in control of the media/propaganda, it would make sense that people were aware of the Rebellion, but the PR guys tried to keep the kid with superpowers hush-hush. Do you think they really publicized that either of the Death Stars ever existed, after they both got blown up almost immediately after getting built?
It makes sense with what happened in the previous movies, doesn't it? In the original, even the high ranking admirals seem skeptical that Vader has any real power. Palpatine always kept his Sith status on the down low. Even in the prequels, how many Jedi are actually in the order? In a great big galaxy, it seems likely that only a tiny fraction of the people would ever actually see one. Look how ignorant we are of the actual details of international conflicts from the 70's and 80's. Now blow that ignorance up in scale from 1 planet to hundreds of populated systems.
I agree it's an interesting choice, and of course different than the route the EU decided to go, but it kind of makes perfect sense.
Yeah, but the wars of the 1970s and 80s are small fries compared to a pan-civilization conflict. We know lots about the World Wars. I do kinda like the downplaying of Vader, though. No more lazy YA messiah shit.
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Post by pairesta on Oct 20, 2015 11:49:27 GMT -5
I've streamlined my thinking now to where it's not that the Rebellion/Republic thing went bad after ROTJ, but instead that Luke just disappeared without training any new Jedi, so they and the Force are just a rumor (hence the whole "Force Awakens" thing). It also fits with how ROTJ was supposed to end, before Kurtz and Lucas split: Luke exiles himself.
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Oct 20, 2015 12:25:36 GMT -5
I've streamlined my thinking now to where it's not that the Rebellion/Republic thing went bad after ROTJ, but instead that Luke just disappeared without training any new Jedi, so they and the Force are just a rumor (hence the whole "Force Awakens" thing). It also fits with how ROTJ was supposed to end, before Kurtz and Lucas split: Luke exiles himself. I said something similar in the other Force Awakens thread. I think there's maybe a chance that Luke tried his hand at training new Jedi post-ROTJ and it went badly (possible Kylo Ren origin?), but even if that's not the case, given who his two biggest role models are, it makes a lot of sense that he'd choose to go hermit it up after the events of the original trilogy.
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Oct 20, 2015 12:35:28 GMT -5
Considering there was all of one Jedi and the Empire was probably firmly in control of the media/propaganda, it would make sense that people were aware of the Rebellion, but the PR guys tried to keep the kid with superpowers hush-hush. Do you think they really publicized that either of the Death Stars ever existed, after they both got blown up almost immediately after getting built?
It makes sense with what happened in the previous movies, doesn't it? In the original, even the high ranking admirals seem skeptical that Vader has any real power. Palpatine always kept his Sith status on the down low. Even in the prequels, how many Jedi are actually in the order? In a great big galaxy, it seems likely that only a tiny fraction of the people would ever actually see one. Look how ignorant we are of the actual details of international conflicts from the 70's and 80's. Now blow that ignorance up in scale from 1 planet to hundreds of populated systems.
I agree it's an interesting choice, and of course different than the route the EU decided to go, but it kind of makes perfect sense.
Yeah, but the wars of the 1970s and 80s are small fries compared to a pan-civilization conflict. We know lots about the World Wars. I do kinda like the downplaying of Vader, though. No more lazy YA messiah shit. But in the original movies, and to a lesser extent the prequels, there's a pretty heavy implication that the further you get from Coruscant, the more the galaxy is basically just the Wild West. Yea, they are technically under Empire control and maybe they keep a small garrison on the planet, but to the average moisture farmer or Hutt crimelord, Republic or Empire doesn't make a big difference. Again, you have to think of the scale of the universe we're talking about here.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 20, 2015 12:36:43 GMT -5
Even in the prequels, how many Jedi are actually in the order? In a great big galaxy, it seems likely that only a tiny fraction of the people would ever actually see one Even if there's like a billion Jedi, the galaxy has probably like eleventy billion billion billion billion billion people in the galaxy. The prequel trilogy is very clear that there aren't enough Jedi to, for example, fight a civil war; that's why the clone soldiers were created to begin with. So if you're old enough to remember the clone wars: Waves of droids and clones were all over killing each other. Eventually the clones won, and they killed members of the mysterious ancient religious cult who were some but not all of their leaders; letting them and their methods pass into myth, as the Republic became the Empire. Since then, the struggles have been between the fearsome apparatus of the Empire and disparate locals and criminals who disagree with their draconian policies - and, occasionally, perhaps, a more organized form of rebellion. Of this ancient fancy lasersword nonsense nothing but rumours and hearsay; perhaps of some kind of surviving member or members of the cult who betrayed their faith and serve the Emperor, perhaps tales of insurrectionists clinging to these old ways after the liqudiation of their Jedi power, but one is as likely to meet the Emperor Himself as you are to have proof of any of this - and anyway, the Emperor and whatever secretive Jedi ties he maintained perished with him in the Battle of Endor.
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Oct 20, 2015 12:49:46 GMT -5
Even in the prequels, how many Jedi are actually in the order? In a great big galaxy, it seems likely that only a tiny fraction of the people would ever actually see one Even if there's like a billion Jedi, the galaxy has probably like eleventy billion billion billion billion billion people in the galaxy. The prequel trilogy is very clear that there aren't enough Jedi to, for example, fight a civil war; that's why the clone soldiers were created to begin with. So if you're old enough to remember the clone wars: Waves of droids and clones were all over killing each other. Eventually the clones won, and they killed members of the mysterious ancient religious cult who were some but not all of their leaders; letting them and their methods pass into myth, as the Republic became the Empire. Since then, the struggles have been between the fearsome apparatus of the Empire and disparate locals and criminals who disagree with their draconian policies - and, occasionally, perhaps, a more organized form of rebellion. Of this ancient fancy lasersword nonsense nothing but rumours and hearsay; perhaps of some kind of surviving member or members of the cult who betrayed their faith and serve the Emperor, perhaps tales of insurrectionists clinging to these old ways after the liqudiation of their Jedi power, but one is as likely to meet the Emperor Himself as you are to have proof of any of this - and anyway, the Emperor and whatever secretive Jedi ties he maintained perished with him in the Battle of Endor. Right. I mean the only publicly known force user for half a century has been Vader, and even if he was a high profile military commander/propaganda bogeyman for the Empire, I would assume most people write off the lightsaber and rumors of using the force as a combination of theatrics and urban legend.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 20, 2015 12:51:47 GMT -5
Superb Owl π¦ Indeed. And even then, there were people who got to be in the same room as Vader, and high in the Empire's chain of command, who considered his religion to be little more than superstitions. How much more so large swathes of the galaxy.
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Oct 20, 2015 12:59:20 GMT -5
Yes, this is all a very sensible and potentially exciting direction for the new trilogy to roll with. The only reason Han, Leia, and Luke would actually be considered galaxy-renowned heroes 30 years later would be that the Rebels victory had been so complete that they were now writing the history books. That seems so unlikely when you think about it. Even the EU, which somewhat implausibly had a functional-if-struggling New Republic seated on Coruscant within 5 years of the Emperor dying, frequently acknowledged that even without the figureheads it would be a damn long slog eliminating Empire dominance (that's part of why the special edition fireworks ending of Jedi always bugged me).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 16:35:25 GMT -5
Nope, not going to watch the new trailer. Will not set myself up for disappointment with this one. I was able to avoid what most star wars fans went through with the prequels, I actually enjoy those movies despite their problems(thank you me for a being a kid at the time!). I will not let that happen here, star wars not being enjoyable for me is something that will crush my soul, especially if it is one of the main films. And JJ Abrams does not have a good enough track record for me to have any faith in him to deliver on the hype most people seem to have for this. I've avoided most things about force awakens, I've only seen the previous trailers maybe like 3 or 4 times combined. I have to temper my expectations, I don't want to go through into darkness over again but with the sci-fi franchise that is dearest to me. Trying to go in blind so that Force Awakens will be what it will be, nothing more and nothing less.
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Post by Return of the Thin Olive Duke on Oct 20, 2015 20:22:52 GMT -5
Yes, this is all a very sensible and potentially exciting direction for the new trilogy to roll with. The only reason Han, Leia, and Luke would actually be considered galaxy-renowned heroes 30 years later would be that the Rebels victory had been so complete that they were now writing the history books. That seems so unlikely when you think about it. Even the EU, which somewhat implausibly had a functional-if-struggling New Republic seated on Coruscant within 5 years of the Emperor dying, frequently acknowledged that even without the figureheads it would be a damn long slog eliminating Empire dominance (that's part of why the special edition fireworks ending of Jedi always bugged me). Okay, I've come around to this point of view. Get ready for some serious wonk. Think back to Star Wars, the very first movie. It's obviously hard to divorce it from its later context, but it explains a lot. In the first act, Luke Skywalker knows almost nothing about the rebellion. The fact that he's hounding C3P0 for info demonstrates how starved he is for information. He is not readily familiar with Jedi, let alone that his father was one, has never seen a lightsaber before, has no familiarity with Obi-Wan's past, and throughout the trilogy persists in referring to him as "Ben." Yes, Luke is our audience surrogate at this point, but there are things he knows that we the viewers still don't. We are meant to know that he's already well-aware of the rebellion and supports it. This might be excused as Luke lives in an outer rim territory outside the control of the empire. However, compare to Han Solo, a citizen of the core world Corellia, who thinks Jedi are little more than monks, overhyped in the same way we hear crazy shit about Yogis or Illuminati. This is also indicated to be widely accepted. This dynamic is borne out in the sequels. Darth Vader is never referred to by name by anyone who hasn't met him personally. Only Leia seems to know of him beforehand, but repeatedly indicates that he is not a real power player (In this respect, the prequels' biggest sin was falling into a YA Chosen One narrative despite Anakin not being a POV character). A high-ranking officer in the Rebellion is totally unaware that one of his old friends runs a goddamn planet, but this is treated as quite normal. Even Luke in ROTJ is still at the Naval rank of Commander, which is equivalent to Lieutenant Colonel in the US Army. Even in a world where the Rebellion had total victory, he'd be no bigger of a deal than Ron Spiers, and may indeed be a somewhat legendary figure in a similarly low-level kind of way, but the Jedi element would reasonably be lost on a general audience, as the rebellion itself never seemed to give a shit; and he'd most certainly be forgotten if the Rebellion failed or simply dragged on. Yeah, I can live with this.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Oct 20, 2015 21:28:46 GMT -5
I do kinda like the downplaying of Vader, though. No more lazy YA messiah shit. But in the trailer, doesn't Darth Lame Mask-Crossguardsaber go "I will avenge you and show everyone how great all your ideas about setting up the universe as a dictatorship were!" to Darth Vader's mask? Also as far as people seeing Vader using the Force, in the original trilogy, doesn't he basically just strangle a couple of dudes with the Force and then duel Obi-Wan once and Luke twice with his lightsaber, and hardly anyone sees these duels? It's not like he's running around murdering swaths of Rebels with his Sith Powers.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 20, 2015 23:03:55 GMT -5
Roy Batty's Pet Dove Vader doesn't even choke someone to death until the second movie, and only uses his lightsabre against Obi-Wan and Luke - his time as pilot of his own TIE Advanced is the only time Vader is fighting people who aren't Jedi or would-be Jedi; and only the Obi-Wan duel was public - his Luke confrontations are in deserted parts of Bespin or the Emperor's Throne Room on the second Death Star. And even though his duel with Obi-Wan was public, you can literally count on one hand the amount of people who saw the duel and we're still alive at the end of the movie, as almost everyone on the Death Star was blown to pieces. Choking people is about the only use of his force powers he is likely regularly seen to do, and even then it isn't tolerated by Tarkin.
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Oct 21, 2015 10:10:46 GMT -5
Roy Batty's Pet Dove Vader doesn't even choke someone to death until the second movie, and only uses his lightsabre against Obi-Wan and Luke - his time as pilot of his own TIE Advanced is the only time Vader is fighting people who aren't Jedi or would-be Jedi; and only the Obi-Wan duel was public - his Luke confrontations are in deserted parts of Bespin or the Emperor's Throne Room on the second Death Star. And even though his duel with Obi-Wan was public, you can literally count on one hand the amount of people who saw the duel and we're still alive at the end of the movie, as almost everyone on the Death Star was blown to pieces. Choking people is about the only use of his force powers he is likely regularly seen to do, and even then it isn't tolerated by Tarkin. Tarkin is kind of an interesting character when you think about it. He makes sense in the context of the first movie, but as the series goes along and Vader is portrayed as more and more powerful in the military structure and as Palpatine's right hand man, it becomes less and less clear why Tarkin would have had so much power over him. They really missed the boat by not trying to find some young Peter Cushing lookalike and exploring his history with Palpatine and Anakin during the prequels. I suppose that wouldn't have left them room to shoehorn in a pointless droid general, lame racist trade leaders, and a confusingly motivated Christopher Lee on the villain side, though.
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Oct 21, 2015 10:19:27 GMT -5
Yes, this is all a very sensible and potentially exciting direction for the new trilogy to roll with. The only reason Han, Leia, and Luke would actually be considered galaxy-renowned heroes 30 years later would be that the Rebels victory had been so complete that they were now writing the history books. That seems so unlikely when you think about it. Even the EU, which somewhat implausibly had a functional-if-struggling New Republic seated on Coruscant within 5 years of the Emperor dying, frequently acknowledged that even without the figureheads it would be a damn long slog eliminating Empire dominance (that's part of why the special edition fireworks ending of Jedi always bugged me). Okay, I've come around to this point of view. Get ready for some serious wonk. Think back to Star Wars, the very first movie. It's obviously hard to divorce it from its later context, but it explains a lot. In the first act, Luke Skywalker knows almost nothing about the rebellion. The fact that he's hounding C3P0 for info demonstrates how starved he is for information. He is not readily familiar with Jedi, let alone that his father was one, has never seen a lightsaber before, has no familiarity with Obi-Wan's past, and throughout the trilogy persists in referring to him as "Ben." Yes, Luke is our audience surrogate at this point, but there are things he knows that we the viewers still don't. We are meant to know that he's already well-aware of the rebellion and supports it. This might be excused as Luke lives in an outer rim territory outside the control of the empire. However, compare to Han Solo, a citizen of the core world Corellia, who thinks Jedi are little more than monks, overhyped in the same way we hear crazy shit about Yogis or Illuminati. This is also indicated to be widely accepted. This dynamic is borne out in the sequels. Darth Vader is never referred to by name by anyone who hasn't met him personally. Only Leia seems to know of him beforehand, but repeatedly indicates that he is not a real power player (In this respect, the prequels' biggest sin was falling into a YA Chosen One narrative despite Anakin not being a POV character). A high-ranking officer in the Rebellion is totally unaware that one of his old friends runs a goddamn planet, but this is treated as quite normal. Even Luke in ROTJ is still at the Naval rank of Commander, which is equivalent to Lieutenant Colonel in the US Army. Even in a world where the Rebellion had total victory, he'd be no bigger of a deal than Ron Spiers, and may indeed be a somewhat legendary figure in a similarly low-level kind of way, but the Jedi element would reasonably be lost on a general audience, as the rebellion itself never seemed to give a shit; and he'd most certainly be forgotten if the Rebellion failed or simply dragged on. Yeah, I can live with this. Now this I don't buy at all. The Rebellion specifically goes looking to drag Obi-Wan out of hiding and presumably was using "May The Force Be With You" as a rallying cry before Luke even showed up. They obviously have respect for at least the legend of the Jedi.
And Luke, even if the bulk of the rebels don't believe in his magic powers, would still and forever be the kid who BLEW UP THE FUCKING DEATH STAR ON HIS FIRST MISSION!! He's given the command of their most elite fighter squadron after no formal military training and two years or less experience. You always get the idea that the only thing holding the Rebellion back from hot-shotting him further up the ranks is his penchant for disappearing to go hang out with green swamp hermits. In ROTJ everybody is cool with him just wandering into a high-level strategy meeting and inviting himself along on a critical mission. You can probably write some of that off as him being friends with the right people at the top (I assume Leia is also the reason that Han and Lando are inexplicably promoted to general that quickly), but it's clear, if not explicitly stated, that his status as 'the last Jedi' carries respect and special treatment within the Rebellion.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 21, 2015 11:34:22 GMT -5
Superb Owl π¦ It's worse than that: They did find a guy to play Tarkin in the prequels - Wayne Pygram, perhaps best known for his memorable performance as Farscape's arch-villain Scorpius, a kind of clipped, sophisticated nemesis not far removed from Tarkin in terms of general aura. And they used him for a single group shot in one brief scene of Revenge of the Sith. Tarkin definitely reflects how much of the Star Wars universe hadn't been fleshed out yet - in earlier drafts of the film the Emperor appears but is not mentioned as having force powers, while Darth Vader was a relatively minor Imperial general whose role had been expanded a fair bit for later drafts, so the idea of Vader as being under Tarkin makes sense in that context. Of course it can be explained more generally, perhaps, as the Imperial command structure. Vader is Palpatine's Force buddy, but Governor Tarkin is likely the kind of competent military leader the Emperor trusts to get things done - at the time of the movie he probably outranked Vader within the navy. If anything that's always felt to me like a mini-arc of Vader's: In the first movie there is a powerful Imperial official whose commonsensical attitudes (like 'do not strangle to death people for disagreeing with you') reign Vader in, while Vader's concrete command appears to be one Star Destroyer and his own fighter squadron. By the time of the second film Vader has his own fleet of Star Destroyers, a gigantic flagship, and absolutely no oversight - the death of Tarkin has left his influence on the Imperial forces essentially unchecked (until the Emperor shows up, of course.) By the time there is a second Death Star, her new commander is nothing next to Vader. (Although Moff Jerrjerrod was originally conceived as having a potential power struggle with Vader, but this idea was scrapped and most of his scenes cut.) In the Clone Wars cartoon, anyway, Captain Tarkin and Anakin Skywalker basically form a mutual admiration society. Tarkin doesn't like Jedi but makes an exception for Anakin, both admit to having relatively close contact to the Chancellor, a man they both admire, it's very wink-wink-nudge-nudge stuff.
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Oct 21, 2015 11:51:52 GMT -5
Superb Owl π¦ It's worse than that: They did find a guy to play Tarkin in the prequels - Wayne Pygram, perhaps best known for his memorable performance as Farscape's arch-villain Scorpius, a kind of clipped, sophisticated nemesis not far removed from Tarkin in terms of general aura. And they used him for a single group shot in one brief scene of Revenge of the Sith. Tarkin definitely reflects how much of the Star Wars universe hadn't been fleshed out yet - in earlier drafts of the film the Emperor appears but is not mentioned as having force powers, while Darth Vader was a relatively minor Imperial general whose role had been expanded a fair bit for later drafts, so the idea of Vader as being under Tarkin makes sense in that context. Of course it can be explained more generally, perhaps, as the Imperial command structure. Vader is Palpatine's Force buddy, but Governor Tarkin is likely the kind of competent military leader the Emperor trusts to get things done - at the time of the movie he probably outranked Vader within the navy. If anything that's always felt to me like a mini-arc of Vader's: In the first movie there is a powerful Imperial official whose commonsensical attitudes (like 'do not strangle to death people for disagreeing with you') reign Vader in, while Vader's concrete command appears to be one Star Destroyer and his own fighter squadron. By the time of the second film Vader has his own fleet of Star Destroyers, a gigantic flagship, and absolutely no oversight - the death of Tarkin has left his influence on the Imperial forces essentially unchecked (until the Emperor shows up, of course.) By the time there is a second Death Star, her new commander is nothing next to Vader. (Although Moff Jerrjerrod was originally conceived as having a potential power struggle with Vader, but this idea was scrapped and most of his scenes cut.) In the Clone Wars cartoon, anyway, Captain Tarkin and Anakin Skywalker basically form a mutual admiration society. Tarkin doesn't like Jedi but makes an exception for Anakin, both admit to having relatively close contact to the Chancellor, a man they both admire, it's very wink-wink-nudge-nudge stuff. The role of the Moffs/Grand Moffs in general barely makes sense. It's implied that Moff isn't really a military rank, it's more like a regional governor, or at least that was the plan after disbanding the Senate. Are they essentially the commanders of all military forces within certain sectors, or something like that?
Really, I don't understand why they weren't planning on using Tarkin before Sith. Surely some combination of the roles Dooku, the Trade Federation, etc. played in the films could have been cleaned up by letting one existing character do all the work and it would have explained how he was so blasted powerful within the Empire come Episode IV.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Oct 21, 2015 11:54:19 GMT -5
Surely some combination of the roles Dooku, the Trade Federation, etc. played in the films could have been cleaned up by letting one existing character do all the work and it would have explained how he was so blasted powerful within the Empire come Episode IV. It's not like they were shy about gratuituously inserting references to the original trilogy, at that. I'd say it'd come from reluctance to recast the role - Pygram's face was made up to look as much like a young Cushing as possible (and they did get Cushing's Hammer Horror co-star as Dooku) but then again they recast Obi-Wan, so who knows.
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Oct 21, 2015 12:00:46 GMT -5
Douay-Rheims-Challoner Yea, I guess you couldn't get around re-casting a young Obi-Wan if you were going to make prequels, but it does seem odd that Cushing got treated as untouchable and Guinness didn't. I suppose the general look and presence was such a big part of what made Tarkin memorable in the original?
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Post by pairesta on Oct 21, 2015 12:13:57 GMT -5
Tarkin is kind of an interesting character when you think about it. He makes sense in the context of the first movie, but as the series goes along and Vader is portrayed as more and more powerful in the military structure and as Palpatine's right hand man, it becomes less and less clear why Tarkin would have had so much power over him. They really missed the boat by not trying to find some young Peter Cushing lookalike and exploring his history with Palpatine and Anakin during the prequels. I suppose that wouldn't have left them room to shoehorn in a pointless droid general, lame racist trade leaders, and a confusingly motivated Christopher Lee on the villain side, though.
I always took it to be that the Moffs were the last vestiges of the Old Republic and when a fair number of them (and the Imperial brass) went up with the Death Star, Palpatine just consolidated his power and Vader ruthlessly stepped into that vacuum. In addition to the ROTS cameo DRC mentions, I wanna say one of the Star Wars movies Disney has commissioned is something to that effect, bridging ROTS and ANH from an Imperial perspective? Seems like there was a newswire on it.
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Oct 21, 2015 12:19:16 GMT -5
Tarkin is kind of an interesting character when you think about it. He makes sense in the context of the first movie, but as the series goes along and Vader is portrayed as more and more powerful in the military structure and as Palpatine's right hand man, it becomes less and less clear why Tarkin would have had so much power over him. They really missed the boat by not trying to find some young Peter Cushing lookalike and exploring his history with Palpatine and Anakin during the prequels. I suppose that wouldn't have left them room to shoehorn in a pointless droid general, lame racist trade leaders, and a confusingly motivated Christopher Lee on the villain side, though.
I always took it to be that the Moffs were the last vestiges of the Old Republic and when a fair number of them (and the Imperial brass) went up with the Death Star, Palpatine just consolidated his power and Vader ruthlessly stepped into that vacuum. In addition to the ROTS cameo DRC mentions, I wanna say one of the Star Wars movies Disney has commissioned is something to that effect, bridging ROTS and ANH from an Imperial perspective? Seems like there was a newswire on it. I know there were planning one about stealing the Death Star plans, which I'd assume would cover a bit of that ground.
I always thought it was implied that the Moffs were more or less Palpatine's cronies from when he was coming up the ranks, or guys that he could easily control. Don't the explicitly say in Episode IV that the Emperor is disbanding the Senate (which would have been that last vestige of the Republic you were talking about) and handing their power over to the Moffs? What you said about Vader basically taking advantage of a power vacuum post-Death Star makes sense though.
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Post by Hawkguy on Oct 21, 2015 12:49:40 GMT -5
I do kinda like the downplaying of Vader, though. No more lazy YA messiah shit. But in the trailer, doesn't Darth Lame Mask-Crossguardsaber go "I will avenge you and show everyone how great all your ideas about setting up the universe as a dictatorship were!" to Darth Vader's mask? Also as far as people seeing Vader using the Force, in the original trilogy, doesn't he basically just strangle a couple of dudes with the Force and then duel Obi-Wan once and Luke twice with his lightsaber, and hardly anyone sees these duels? It's not like he's running around murdering swaths of Rebels with his Sith Powers. Yes but he was operating for years beforehand. I assume he built a reputation within the Empire (as the recent Star Wars Rebels is showing)
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Post by Superb Owl π¦ on Oct 21, 2015 13:25:21 GMT -5
But in the trailer, doesn't Darth Lame Mask-Crossguardsaber go "I will avenge you and show everyone how great all your ideas about setting up the universe as a dictatorship were!" to Darth Vader's mask? Also as far as people seeing Vader using the Force, in the original trilogy, doesn't he basically just strangle a couple of dudes with the Force and then duel Obi-Wan once and Luke twice with his lightsaber, and hardly anyone sees these duels? It's not like he's running around murdering swaths of Rebels with his Sith Powers. Yes but he was operating for years beforehand. I assume he built a reputation within the Empire (as the recent Star Wars Rebels is showing) Apparently not enough of a reputation to keep officers from being smartasses in meetings with him.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2015 13:32:47 GMT -5
I would just like to point out that "Darth Lame Mask-Crossguardsaber" didn't say anything about a dictatorship, just finishing what Vader started. Which may be the Jedi Purge...so he could be hunting Luke and anyone else, like Finn, who shows Force affinity, but not be that interested in running the galaxy.
Of course, this is Abrams, so he may overdo it. I really hope Kasdan tempers that trend.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Oct 21, 2015 16:40:31 GMT -5
But in the trailer, doesn't Darth Lame Mask-Crossguardsaber go "I will avenge you and show everyone how great all your ideas about setting up the universe as a dictatorship were!" to Darth Vader's mask? Also as far as people seeing Vader using the Force, in the original trilogy, doesn't he basically just strangle a couple of dudes with the Force and then duel Obi-Wan once and Luke twice with his lightsaber, and hardly anyone sees these duels? Β It's not like he's running around murdering swaths of Rebels with his Sith Powers.Β Yes but he was operating for years beforehand. I assume he built a reputation within the Empire (as the recent Star Wars Rebels is showing) You're talking about Vader, right? Not Darth Lame Mask-Crossguardsaber?
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