|
|
Post by Prole Hole on Mar 30, 2023 2:46:07 GMT -5
Prole Hole I checked in on your Trek podcast this week. I think the last one I checked out was "Balance of Terror". I did listen to the "Galileo Seven" episode. Really enjoyed that one. I saw your newest one was "Court Martial". I realized I have no memory of that episode. So I played your podcast episode. Wow, literally the only thing I remember about that episode is "crew member is secretly still alive". I listened to you all talk about it, and nothing you talked about even jogged my memory. That episode must be incredibly dull. As you might have gathered from the episode, we weren't exactly bowled over by it either. It's worth watching for just how awful that final fight is, but yeah beyond that it's just Perry Mason In Space. Very far from riveting. |
|
ABz B👹anaz
Grandfathered In 
This country is (now less of) a shitshow.
Posts: 1,992
|
Post by ABz B👹anaz on Mar 30, 2023 23:01:56 GMT -5
This week's Picard was not great, but not bad either. Vadic's backstory at least sufficiently explains how Changelings are in the Alpha Quadrant despite Sisko and the Prophets blocking them from coming through the wormhole. |
|
|
|
Post by Desert Dweller on Mar 31, 2023 17:45:41 GMT -5
This week's Picard was not great, but not bad either. Vadic's backstory at least sufficiently explains how Changelings are in the Alpha Quadrant despite Sisko and the Prophets blocking them from coming through the wormhole.
It does! I was surprised they actually accounted for this. However, am I now to believe that there are only 10 total Changelings in the Alpha quadrant? How many have died in this season of PIC? How many of them are there? I'm not sure this episode explained that.
Edited to add: I wonder what the DS9 writers think about what this season of PIC is doing.
Also, it's rich that Changelings are whining about the morphogenic virus (which, ahem, BASHIR discovered the cure for, and gave to Odo!), while being the same people responsible for what was going on in DS9's "The Quickening". But sure, your warfare in no way compares to the Federation atrocities, eh? Tell it to Garak.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Mar 31, 2023 18:39:36 GMT -5
Lore solidifies “I’m probably not bothering finishing PIC’s third season.”
Again I’m surprised they kept the same cast when the format seems to demand turnover. It’s such a straight jacket.
|
|
|
|
Post by Desert Dweller on Mar 31, 2023 19:14:02 GMT -5
Lore solidifies “I’m probably not bothering finishing PIC’s third season.” Again I’m surprised they kept the same cast when the format seems to demand turnover. It’s such a straight jacket.
It is amusing that this show had this big, goofy death scene for Data at the end of Season 1, seemingly just so Nemesis wouldn't have the final word on it, but now they're like, "Oh just kidding, he's not dead dead."
And just to be honest here, these TNG characters are not the people I'd want to have around to counter Changelings. Maybe if it were TNG-era Picard. He probably wouldn't fall for these tricks, disinfo and propaganda.
Also, just want to throw this out there, in DS9 season 5 premier, the Federation helped out an ally by ridding its government of a Changeling who had infiltrated it and tried to destroy it from within. The Federation also provided assistance to another species in Season 7 to help them throw off a Changeling Occupation. Nobody left in the Alpha/Beta Quadrant to help the Federation now, though? No? No, we're going to call Tuvok instead? Ok, guys.
|
|
|
|
Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 1, 2023 1:54:24 GMT -5
Additionally, I feel compelled to point out that not only does DS9's episode "The Quickening" undercut this Changeling's argument that the Federation tactics were so much worse, but I'd also like to point out the hypocrisy here in complaining about the Federation "atrocities" of doing medical experimentation on them trying to turn their species into something else. Excuse me, Vadic? What are the origins of the Vorta and Jem'Hadar?
I just wish that since PIC is using a DS9 villain, they'd actually have a DS9 character around to hear all of these "it's all your fault, you started it, you were way worse than we were" comments and call it out for the BS it is.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Apr 1, 2023 15:58:07 GMT -5
Additionally, I feel compelled to point out that not only does DS9's episode "The Quickening" undercut this Changeling's argument that the Federation tactics were so much worse, but I'd also like to point out the hypocrisy here in complaining about the Federation "atrocities" of doing medical experimentation on them trying to turn their species into something else. Excuse me, Vadic? What are the origins of the Vorta and Jem'Hadar? I just wish that since PIC is using a DS9 villain, they'd actually have a DS9 character around to hear all of these "it's all your fault, you started it, you were way worse than we were" comments and call it out for the BS it is. I am quite happy my DS9 guys aren’t included in PIC, especially since they’d be given some kind of miserable backstory. Given that the DS9 actors (Dorn excepted) mostly don’t have the devotion to Trek (or each other) I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if they thought of included them but the actors either turned them down o had other conflicts. That said PIC is catering towards a very specific kind of fan so I doubt that actually happened. Really, the Dominion, the “we’ll wipe out the Cardassian species” Dominion is just as “bad” as the Feds? That’s “Gaddafi’s Libya was the real democracy”-level cynical revisionism. |
|
|
|
Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 2, 2023 18:44:51 GMT -5
Additionally, I feel compelled to point out that not only does DS9's episode "The Quickening" undercut this Changeling's argument that the Federation tactics were so much worse, but I'd also like to point out the hypocrisy here in complaining about the Federation "atrocities" of doing medical experimentation on them trying to turn their species into something else. Excuse me, Vadic? What are the origins of the Vorta and Jem'Hadar? I just wish that since PIC is using a DS9 villain, they'd actually have a DS9 character around to hear all of these "it's all your fault, you started it, you were way worse than we were" comments and call it out for the BS it is. I am quite happy my DS9 guys aren’t included in PIC, especially since they’d be given some kind of miserable backstory. Given that the DS9 actors (Dorn excepted) mostly don’t have the devotion to Trek (or each other) I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if they thought of included them but the actors either turned them down o had other conflicts. That said PIC is catering towards a very specific kind of fan so I doubt that actually happened. Really, the Dominion, the “we’ll wipe out the Cardassian species” Dominion is just as “bad” as the Feds? That’s “Gaddafi’s Libya was the real democracy”-level cynical revisionism.
I think the DS9 actors would be game to reappear. Of course, if they were asked to appear only to have their character killed off, I can see why they would say no. I don't think this season would have enough time to give them some ridiculous miserable backstory. But, you are right that anything PIC would do would probably be worse than where we left the characters at the finale.
I actually watched this episode and just got really annoyed with this whole scene with Picard and Vadic. All of this, "Oh we were so mistreated by Starfleet!" and it was really Starfleet who committed the atrocities!.... :eyeroll: Okay. I was annoyed with Picard for actually feeling bad about this. Look, PIC writers, DS9 did absolutely nothing to redeem the Dominion. It seemed like the writers went out of their way to make sure they stayed scary and unreasonable all the way to end. I am not sure that a Picard speech is going to be able to accomplish this.
I will say that this episode did at least make it so that Odo didn't look like a total failure, because apparently these Changelings weren't part of the Great Link that Odo went back to after the war? Though, I'm still unclear as to how many Changelings are involved in this PIC season. It doesn't seem like it can be *only* those 10?
Additionally, this whole speech by Vadic does at least echo the stuff we heard from the Female Changeling in DS9, about how they were hunted by solids and needed to protect/defend themselves, and they need to be able to control everything otherwise the solids will kill them all. It's just that the DS9 characters recognized this as propaganda and so didn't stand around feeling sorry for them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 6, 2023 20:17:15 GMT -5
Did this week's episode of ST:PIC tell us that the one episode in Season 1 of PIC that we all liked was all bullshit? Did I misinterpret this?
I remain unconvinced that the PIC writers understand the current mechanics of the wormhole and ability to travel to and from the Gamma Quadrant. Which leads me to idly wonder what the PIC writers think the Jem'Hadar are currently doing.
I have now actually watched the whole S3 of PIC. I was hoping that if I watched it, it would make more sense to me. Not really. I am not feeling this.
This whole Data story in this episode just felt like they threw in the towel and went with "Eh, it's magic". But hey, glad to know that the Data who asked to die in S1 was just that *other* Data.
Any other scenes from S1 that you all would like to disavow?
|
|
|
|
Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Apr 6, 2023 20:45:21 GMT -5
How many times has Data died? tbh I’m still not entirely clear how his consciousness survived Nemesis while B-4 was too primitive an android to carry it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ben Grimm on Apr 7, 2023 6:26:28 GMT -5
Did this week's episode of ST:PIC tell us that the one episode in Season 1 of PIC that we all liked was all bullshit? Did I misinterpret this? I remain unconvinced that the PIC writers understand the current mechanics of the wormhole and ability to travel to and from the Gamma Quadrant. Which leads me to idly wonder what the PIC writers think the Jem'Hadar are currently doing. I have now actually watched the whole S3 of PIC. I was hoping that if I watched it, it would make more sense to me. Not really. I am not feeling this. This whole Data story in this episode just felt like they threw in the towel and went with "Eh, it's magic". But hey, glad to know that the Data who asked to die in S1 was just that *other* Data. Any other scenes from S1 that you all would like to disavow? I figured the one who died in S1 was just a copy. Essentially, he was the backup that Data downloaded into B-4. This one was made from some old hard drives and should now be referred to as Thomas Data. |
|
|
|
Post by Prole Hole on Apr 9, 2023 5:23:59 GMT -5
Any other scenes from S1 that you all would like to disavow? Yes! S1! This week's episode continues the trend of Picard S3 of Star Trek just being about Star Trek and very little else. It's better made than either of the first two season (high praise indeed...) but still Just Star Trek Stuff. Eventually we reach the inevitable getting-the-band-back-together scene and... yup it's lovely to see them all round a table again and very little else. Lore. Why? Urgh. Two episodes left, Picard. Go on, surprise me. Please. |
|
|
|
Post by Prole Hole on Apr 9, 2023 5:32:50 GMT -5
How many times has Data died? tbh I’m still not entirely clear how his consciousness survived Nemesis while B-4 was too primitive an android to carry it. There's enough wiggle room in Nemesis that, although B-4 was too primitive to "be" Data, the download-as-backup could have worked as a way of preserving him. The implication is at the end of Nemesis (with B-4 whistling "Blue Skies") that at least some of Data made it on to Google Drive B-4 and Picard just takes the implication a bit further and says, yup it basically worked, if not quite how anyone thought it would. In related news, I'm sick of shows that don't allow death to be permanent. Data died. He did it in a shitty movie (well, not that shitty a movie), sure, but he did it standing up to tyranny and for what he believed in, sacrificing his life to save his captain. That's a worthy end to the character. I get why they wanted Data included here (and at least we don't have another terrible Soong character for Brent Spiner to play terribly) but it still feels like this cheapens that sacrifice for the sake of a bit of nostalgia. There was some poignancy to Picard standing vigil over Data as he died in S1 but it all just feels like patch-work to make up for the abruptness of Data's death in Nemesis. |
|
|
|
Post by Ben Grimm on Apr 13, 2023 18:20:35 GMT -5
Congratulations to Star-Lord, today, as he officially loses his title as the biggest fucking idiot in the history of science fiction.
|
|
|
|
Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 13, 2023 18:45:03 GMT -5
Re: ST: Pic
I cannot express the strength of my desire to never see the Borg again in any Star Trek tv series or film. S1 of PIC could have maybe done something interesting there, instead they just tossed it aside. S2 was insane. S3 is beyond insane.
I am definitely not old enough for the nostalgia porn being aired by ST:PIC right now. This is ridiculous.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Apr 13, 2023 22:05:28 GMT -5
I read a summary of the latest episode after seeing people describe it as the “best episode of Trek ever” and…the fuck? Even back when I read (and wrote) terrible Trek fanfic in middle school I never ready anything so fanfic-y. It honestly reads as so pandering it’s insulting.
|
|
ABz B👹anaz
Grandfathered In
This country is (now less of) a shitshow.
Posts: 1,992
|
Post by ABz B👹anaz on Apr 13, 2023 23:52:22 GMT -5
Re: ST: Pic I cannot express the strength of my desire to never see the Borg again in any Star Trek tv series or film. S1 of PIC could have maybe done something interesting there, instead they just tossed it aside. S2 was insane. S3 is beyond insane. I am definitely not old enough for the nostalgia porn being aired by ST:PIC right now. This is ridiculous. Five minutes into this episode and I am ready to be DONE with this fucking show for good. "The Borg haven't been seen for ten years" FUCK YOU WHAT ABOUT BOTH OF THE OTHER SEASONS?! AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO IGNORE THAT COMPLETELY, SHOW, THEN FUCK YOU! |
|
|
|
Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 14, 2023 0:21:31 GMT -5
I read a summary of the latest episode after seeing people describe it as the “best episode of Trek ever” and…the fuck? Even back when I read (and wrote) terrible Trek fanfic in middle school I never ready anything so fanfic-y. It honestly reads as so pandering it’s insulting. Saw tweets of this "best episode ever!" type come across my feed early in the day. I was surprised, and I wondered if the show had managed to pull off a really cool conclusion.
So I watched the episode.
If you think it read as pandering and fanfic-y, that was nothing like actually watching it. As said above, mere minutes into this episode I was rolling my eyes at how profoundly dumb and pandering it was. And it got worse from there. Way worse.
My respect level for folks like Michael Piller, Ira Steven Behr, Jeri Taylor, and even Brannon Braga has gone way up after watching ST:PIC. Especially after this episode.
|
|
|
|
Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 14, 2023 0:27:09 GMT -5
Five minutes into this episode and I am ready to be DONE with this fucking show for good. "The Borg haven't been seen for ten years" FUCK YOU WHAT ABOUT BOTH OF THE OTHER SEASONS?! AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO IGNORE THAT COMPLETELY, SHOW, THEN FUCK YOU! Did you see my above post about how one of the previous episodes started telling us that stuff we saw in Season 1 wasn't true? Like, the episode "Nepenthe" that was an actual good episode in S1, wherein Picard goes to get some comfort from talking to Troi and Riker, who are happy and living on this peaceful planet. But S3 tells us, "Nah, they were secretly miserable."
And then there's the whole Data thing, where it just wasn't our Data who asked Picard in S1 to let him die.
And now all of this. It is honestly hard to believe that this show was both insultingly pandering, but also trying to disavow anything it had done in the previous two seasons.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Apr 14, 2023 0:30:18 GMT -5
Desert Dweller I think none of them being fans helped, but RDM and Rene Echevarria were big fanboys and managed to use it effectively, still telling their own stories while using TOS elements either as Easter eggs or as jumping-off points. The whole fandom feedback loop is such a trap for genre television. Fans will generally like to something new, different, and at a remove from the rest of the franchise if it’s good—look at Andor! (I was constantly thinking of Kira’s little speeches about fighting the Cardassians when watching that show.)
|
|
|
|
Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 14, 2023 1:13:54 GMT -5
Desert Dweller I think none of them being fans helped, but RDM and Rene Echevarria were big fanboys and managed to use it effectively, still telling their own stories while using TOS elements either as Easter eggs or as jumping-off points. The whole fandom feedback loop is such a trap for genre television. Fans will generally like to something new, different, and at a remove from the rest of the franchise if it’s good—look at Andor! (I was constantly thinking of Kira’s little speeches about fighting the Cardassians when watching that show.) Yeah, you are likely right that none of the showrunners being Trek fanboys really helped. And even RDM and Echevarria seemed to just like playing around in the universe, and all the possibilities that had.
It is just amazing to me that with the entire galaxy to play with, these PIC writers are like, "Let's just do a 'Greatest Hits' show." The whole series has been reduced to, "Hey remember that thing you liked? Here it is! Don't you love it?!" OMG, this is so incredibly dull.
... It is hours later and I am still thinking about how stupid and ridiculous that episode was.
I'm calling it: DSC is a better show than PIC.
|
|
|
|
Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 20, 2023 21:31:07 GMT -5
And so a season that was entirely based on nostalgia and fan service finally comes to end. How? By copying the the story of TNG's most famous finale. This episode is just Best of Both Worlds.
Except not as good, of course.
|
|
ABz B👹anaz
Grandfathered In
This country is (now less of) a shitshow.
Posts: 1,992
|
Post by ABz B👹anaz on Apr 20, 2023 21:43:01 GMT -5
And so a season that was entirely based on nostalgia and fan service finally comes to end. How? By copying the the story of TNG's most famous finale. This episode is just Best of Both Worlds. Except not as good, of course. Yeah. I came back and finished the season. It was just okay. Some good scenes. I hope the Borg are completely done, FOREVER now. |
|
|
|
Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 20, 2023 22:06:41 GMT -5
And so a season that was entirely based on nostalgia and fan service finally comes to end. How? By copying the the story of TNG's most famous finale. This episode is just Best of Both Worlds. Except not as good, of course. Yeah. I came back and finished the season. It was just okay. Some good scenes. I hope the Borg are completely done, FOREVER now. I'm reading Alan Sepiwall's review. He says this was all that fans wanted and needed after how disappointing the first two seasons were. He also says the season has "shameless fan service" and that the "plot was largely gibberish".
...I'm just going to accept that this series was not made for me.
|
|
matt
Grandfathered In
Posts: 300
|
Post by matt on Apr 24, 2023 1:58:27 GMT -5
That section 31 series is not happening anymore, because a totally going to happen movie is now being planned instead. Surrrrre.
|
|
|
|
Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 25, 2023 1:43:45 GMT -5
That section 31 series is not happening anymore, because a totally going to happen movie is now being planned instead. Surrrrre. They probably can't afford Michelle Yeoh anymore. |
|
|
|
Post by Prole Hole on Apr 25, 2023 4:36:12 GMT -5
Well, that was a pointless load of old fanwank!
There's some good performances but beyond that what the hell even was that finale? Ohh, look, we can drive the Enterprise about like it's the Millennium Falcon now! Uh, you know how the Borg were complete reconfigured at the end of the last season? Yeah, we forgot about that too, so here's Alice Krige back for... reason! Assimilation is now something you can get better from because... ?? You know how the Borg just stop shooting at you when you hit one of their big gun things? Me neither! You know how Seven, a former Borg done, is on this show? Why no, we didn't give her anything to do that had anything to do with the Borg or even have a little insight that might have helped, that's right! And so on. Oh and that fucking post-credits clip? Fuck. The. Fuck. Off. Great way to undermine your S2 emotional climax, everyone! Also, Bev has really given up on the ol' Hippocratic Oath, hasn't she?
Still, Captain Seven in charge of the Titan Enterprise is pretty great, as was the Seven/Tuvok scene. Bless.
But mostly, what a mess. I'll do a proper write up once I've managed to digest all this. Somehow.
|
|
|
|
Post by Prole Hole on Apr 25, 2023 4:38:24 GMT -5
That section 31 series is not happening anymore, because a totally going to happen movie is now being planned instead. Surrrrre. I think, to be strictly fair, it's a TV movie rather than a Cinematic Outing, but yeah... |
|
matt
Grandfathered In
Posts: 300
|
Post by matt on Apr 25, 2023 11:47:59 GMT -5
That section 31 series is not happening anymore, because a totally going to happen movie is now being planned instead. Surrrrre. I think, to be strictly fair, it's a TV movie rather than a Cinematic Outing, but yeah... Oh, I figured it was going to be a straight to paramount plus deal. Still isn't happening. |
|
|
|
Post by Prole Hole on Apr 30, 2023 9:21:35 GMT -5
|
|
