patbat
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Posts: 2,396
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Post by patbat on May 15, 2019 15:31:37 GMT -5
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Post by Hachiman on May 15, 2019 19:42:23 GMT -5
One thing that honestly bothers me in the last few episodes are the travel times. I mean, people complain about Euron or Varys teleporting, but the show has established that getting across the map whether with a small group or with an army is not easy. For example, Dany's foreign army AND Jon's army didn't have any problems getting past the Twins. None at all? I mean, we don't know who is running that place but they still just let them all through? And they encountered absolutely no resistance all the way down the road to King's landing? Nobody was being harried or flanked or bogged down with maneuvering?* And remember how long Jamie and Arya spent wandering the map between King's Landing and Winterfell? For them both make the journey seemingly without any problems or comment whatsoever? Arya didn't even seem to care about being back in the place where her father was executed to a cheering crowd. I at least expected a throw away line about getting strong enough that traveling isn't a problem anymore or how much she hated King's Landing. I'm not even mad. I am just pointing out how rushed and incongruous it all seems. This show is actually getting me on GRRM's side. I can now better see why finishing the books is taking so long when he's placed so many pieces on the table. *And if that is the case, then Dany should have just declared victory since the rest of the country is either too weak to resist or already allied. She's got 4 friendly or loyal Kingdoms (the North, the Iron Islands, the Vale, Dorne) and could probably add the the Stormlands and the West if she bothered to properly install Gendry and Tyrion and then let them start calling their banners**. the Riverlands apparently aren't an issue. The only unknown is the Reach. With the evidence we have, all she had to do was wait for more allies to show up and King's Landing to run out of food. The characters kept saying that Cersei was getting stronger, but all evidence was that she was completely maxed out and isolated. **Tough sells, but she does have a Dragon and a ton of good PR after the Battle of Winterfell!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2019 7:33:47 GMT -5
One thing that honestly bothers me in the last few episodes are the travel times. I mean, people complain about Euron or Varys teleporting, but the show has established that getting across the map whether with a small group or with an army is not easy. For example, Dany's foreign army AND Jon's army didn't have any problems getting past the Twins. None at all? I mean, we don't know who is running that place but they still just let them all through? And they encountered absolutely no resistance all the way down the road to King's landing? Nobody was being harried or flanked or bogged down with maneuvering?* And remember how long Jamie and Arya spent wandering the map between King's Landing and Winterfell? For them both make the journey seemingly without any problems or comment whatsoever? Arya didn't even seem to care about being back in the place where her father was executed to a cheering crowd. I at least expected a throw away line about getting strong enough that traveling isn't a problem anymore or how much she hated King's Landing. I'm not even mad. I am just pointing out how rushed and incongruous it all seems. This show is actually getting me on GRRM's side. I can now better see why finishing the books is taking so long when he's placed so many pieces on the table. *And if that is the case, then Dany should have just declared victory since the rest of the country is either too weak to resist or already allied. She's got 4 friendly or loyal Kingdoms (the North, the Iron Islands, the Vale, Dorne) and could probably add the the Stormlands and the West if she bothered to properly install Gendry and Tyrion and then let them start calling their banners**. the Riverlands apparently aren't an issue. The only unknown is the Reach. With the evidence we have, all she had to do was wait for more allies to show up and King's Landing to run out of food. The characters kept saying that Cersei was getting stronger, but all evidence was that she was completely maxed out and isolated. **Tough sells, but she does have a Dragon and a ton of good PR after the Battle of Winterfell! I still remember way back in the first season, the 2nd episode was merely about just traveling from Winterfell to King's Landing, in both the pilot and the third episode they made mention of how making that trek(AS KING, with all the guards and no resistance) is like a month journey.
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Post by pairesta on May 16, 2019 8:08:42 GMT -5
"Grandpa, remember when I was a kid and you read those neat books to me?" "Of course I do lad. How I cherish those memories!" "Remember how we finished that one book and you said you'd be reading the next book to me any day now?" "Er, um." "Grandpa. I'm a sophomore in college now. WHERE THE FUCK IS THE OTHER BOOK? YOU ARE WHY I STRUGGLE WITH COMMITMENT"
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Post by liebkartoffel on May 16, 2019 15:06:19 GMT -5
A) I don't particularly like D&D or what they're doing with the ending.
B) After the previous two books I also don't have much faith in GRRM's ability to produce a better ending.
B1)...which is kind of a moot point, as I have my doubts that he'll ever finish the series.
C) GRRM's inability to finish what he started and sketching out only the barest outline of where the rest of the series is headed probably contributed to D&D cocking up the ending.
D) D&D probably contributed more to D&D cocking up the ending.
E) Regardless, entitled fan-babies with their stupid little petitions should shut the fuck up and make their own art.
F) Naming your daughter "Khaleesi" was fucking dumb even before she turned into Fantasy Hitler.
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Post by sarapen on May 17, 2019 8:05:33 GMT -5
Remember when AVC did a thing saying the High Sparrow was Bernie Sanders? I'm kind of thankful now that the show is ending before 2020.
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Post by songstarliner on May 19, 2019 17:23:42 GMT -5
Is the Iron Throne buried under the blasted rubble of the Red Keep? Maybe Drogon can dig it out.
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Post by ganews on May 19, 2019 19:49:08 GMT -5
Say what you will about the quality of the 5 minute after-episode commentary segments that Benioff and Weiss do, at least HBO isn't paying Chris Hardwick to be on TV for an hour a week.
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Post by Powerthirteen on May 19, 2019 21:24:54 GMT -5
Yet again I’m going to be the only person in the world who’s happy with how a popular show ended aren’t I?
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Post by MrsLangdonAlger on May 19, 2019 21:25:02 GMT -5
That was the fucking stupidest thing I've ever watched and I watched the finale of Dexter AND that Serenity movie with Anne Hathaway.
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Post by Powerthirteen on May 19, 2019 21:26:42 GMT -5
Yet again I’m going to be the only person in the world who’s happy with how a popular show ended aren’t I?
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Post by Ben Grimm on May 19, 2019 21:44:24 GMT -5
Well that was a great big pile of shit.
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Post by Pedantic Editor Type on May 19, 2019 21:47:12 GMT -5
Ok I am apparently in the Internet Minority but honestly I mostly liked it. Given what they had to work with, it worked for me.
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Post by pairesta on May 19, 2019 21:54:56 GMT -5
At least they leaned into Jon Snuh is an Idiot.
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Post by Powerthirteen on May 19, 2019 21:55:26 GMT -5
Ok I am apparently in the Internet Minority but honestly I mostly liked it. Given what they had to work with, it worked for me. I've occasionally dabbled in graphic design at work, and talking to GoT fans about why they don't like this season reminds me of that. "This isn't right!" "Ok, what do you want it to be?" "I don't know, but it should be better."
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Post by Pedantic Editor Type on May 19, 2019 22:05:03 GMT -5
Ok I am apparently in the Internet Minority but honestly I mostly liked it. Given what they had to work with, it worked for me. I've occasionally dabbled in graphic design at work, and talking to GoT fans about why they don't like this season reminds me of that. "This isn't right!" "Ok, what do you want it to be?" "I don't know, but it should be better." Yep, I’ve dealt with that in editing too. Honestly “fixing” it would require an entirely new last season, which... ain’t happening, go write your fanfic. Given how it was going I thought it was a pretty resonant and satisfying ending and fuck yeah Sansa.
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Post by songstarliner on May 19, 2019 22:11:10 GMT -5
Dumb as a butt ...
... but I still liked it. I dunno, over the years my expectations dropped so very low that it almost didn't matter to me what they'd do.
Lotta eye-roll moments though. What's the dumbest thing Tyrion could have found in the ruins of Maegor's Holdfast? Jaime's golden hand. What could possibly destroy the Iron Throne? Fiery hot dragon breath DO YOU GET IT? And so on and so forth. Emilia Clarke and Kit Harrington are both wooden, uncharismatic actors, and I never once bought into their romance - zero chemistry - which dampened the impact of the endgame. Thank the gods Dinklage was there to do the heavy emotional lifting.
Anyway, it's over - huzzah.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on May 20, 2019 0:21:30 GMT -5
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on May 20, 2019 0:26:13 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, when do y'all think this show stopped being good? I was watching on and off through the first four seasons, back when, having read the books, it was easy enough to follow when I'd missed a couple of episodes. I then watched the first episode of season 6 a couple of years back, and thought, "Wow, that kind of sucked compared with the quality of earlier seasons", and got the impression that I wasn't too off base with my impression of the show's quality at that time. How much did the show's writing drop in quality such that Season 8 seemed egregiously bad compared with the last couple of seasons? Don't worry about spoiling anything for me, I'm past caring about spoilers for this show.
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Post by Some Kind of Munster on May 20, 2019 0:27:57 GMT -5
Dumb as a butt ...
... but I still liked it. I dunno, over the years my expectations dropped so very low that it almost didn't matter to me what they'd do.
Lotta eye-roll moments though. What's the dumbest thing Tyrion could have found in the ruins of Maegor's Holdfast? Jaime's golden hand. What could possibly destroy the Iron Throne? Fiery hot dragon breath DO YOU GET IT? And so on and so forth. Emilia Clarke and Kit Harrington are both wooden, uncharismatic actors, and I never once bought into their romance - zero chemistry - which dampened the impact of the endgame. Thank the gods Dinklage was there to do the heavy emotional lifting.
Anyway, it's over - huzzah.
I especially enjoyed learning that Jaime and Cersei were killed by the approximately 4 rocks that landed on top of them. They were THIS close to surviving! But yeah, overall I thought this season was fine and I enjoyed it. It was dumb fun and it provided some decent closure
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Post by liebkartoffel on May 20, 2019 1:21:23 GMT -5
As someone who's spent most of my life just kind of hanging around in the background staring off into space and not contributing much of anything, I'm a little annoyed no one's tried to make me king of anything.
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Post by ganews on May 20, 2019 6:51:51 GMT -5
It was okay, all things considered.
The most realistic moment of the whole show was when Sam proposes instituting democracy and all the nobles laugh at him.
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Post by pairesta on May 20, 2019 7:00:03 GMT -5
I'm mostly fine with it. Most of my outrage was spent last week. As the reviews at TOC state, they pretty much lay out Dany's arc for you in Tyrion's conversation with Jon. Still don't think they got us there, but whatever. (I love that Jon had to take off all his weapons to visit Tyrion, a prisoner they were going to execute anyways, but got to see Dany fully armed.) Bran getting the throne was dumb as hell, but an expected victory lap and up-its-own ass-ness at this point. My theory going into this final episode was that with King's Landing burned to the ground and the throne with it, the Game of Thrones was broken, and something new needed to arise. I was thinking it would wind up a council of each of the remaining lords. Then Sam gets up and suggests that and basically gets laughed down, so points for internal consistency, show. Jon. Oh, Jon Snuh: you have this huge, seasons-long arc of him finding out he's a Targaryen, Varys clearly having written and sent notes revealing Jon's identity to the other lords and nope, let's just stick him up north. To the end, Jon was sidelined in his own life.
I'd happily watch a sequel series that was just that Small Council, meeting every week. They could make it an Office-style work comedy. And fuck it, have Tywin or Lady Tyrell's ghosts in there, sniping at everyone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 7:29:34 GMT -5
I will be very interested in the last few books(given that doesn't turn into more books) if GRRM ever gets off his ass and decides to finish up the series before he dies. It really feels like excising fake Aegon(?) from the show actually lead to a lot of the problems people seem to be having with how it wrapped up. Not all though, that Jaime stuff is inexcusable.
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Crash Test Dumbass
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ffc what now
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Post by Crash Test Dumbass on May 20, 2019 7:38:07 GMT -5
All I'm saying is I hope Arya took Gendry with her.
I mean, someone's gotta row that thing if the winds die down.
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Post by Ben Grimm on May 20, 2019 7:40:33 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thought that there was this weird undercurrent of "don't worry, the men are in charge again, everything will be fine" to that episode?
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Dellarigg
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This is a public service announcement - with guitars
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Post by Dellarigg on May 20, 2019 7:42:06 GMT -5
What happened to Ed Sheeran's character?
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Invisible Goat
Shoutbox Elitist
Grab your mother's keys, we're leaving
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Post by Invisible Goat on May 20, 2019 7:54:15 GMT -5
I thought it was great and I'm really sad that something I've enjoyed watching and talking about for 8 years is over.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 8:04:18 GMT -5
I just want to add, the parallel I'm finding myself going back to when comparing how GOT ends isn't something like Dexter, LOST, or Battlestar Galactica. It is actually the original 2003 adaptation of Fullmetal Alchemist. That show had to eventually come up with it's own ending because it outpaced the source material. Most anime adaptations of manga just lead to the anime coming up with "filler" arcs to let the manga get ahead of the anime again. FMA 2003 however did not want to do that and about halfway through it pivoted to a completely different story with wildly different character motivations and backstories. While D&D did have a little bit more information than the people making FMA did at the time, on the parts they clearly had to fill in the blanks on their own, it does seem to have lead to the same issues FMA ended up having.
I'm also currently attempting to actually catch back up on GOT, I've read the books, but stopped watching the show fairly early into season 3. So I've started from season 3 again, I just got to the episode where Jaime tells Brienne the story of why he really killed the Mad King. It was a great scene, one of the best from what I've seen of the show. However, in the context of how the series has gone since running out of source material, it actually made me realize just how much of a crutch the books were to D&D. The best moments are usually taken word for word from the books. It's the Scott Snyder Watchmen adaptation, just a copy of the original. Which isn't to say the show 100% is only as good as the books. One of my favorite scenes of the stuff I've seen was the Robert and Cersei conversation about how their marriage failed in season 1, that was never in the books or even alluded to. That was just one scene of the first season, which was a very faithful adaptation, very little original stuff in there.
D&D aren't totally at fault for the adaptation, I'm pretty sure when pre-production for the series even started that GRRM likely assured them that the books would be finished in time. Adaptations are hard, but as anime has taught me, it is much harder when you are adapting something that isn't even finished. It is a gamble, and one that for the most part succeeded for HBO, just a shame it didn't necessarily pay off creatively.
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Post by chalkdevil 😈 on May 20, 2019 9:00:24 GMT -5
Well, D&D must have thought, as directors, on what resonant image can we end our wildly expense fantasy epic TV show? How about a medium shot of some extras as they slowly walking away from the camera into the into the woods and then we just fade out? Epic.
What will the last words of the series be? Something poetic on the nature of power? No, the set up to a dwarf joke. Not the punchline, just the setup. Oh, is this going on in the last shot? No, it'll be like 5 minutes before that shot. The rest is going to be a silent montage of 3 of the 4 siblings we've decided are the protagonists of the series walking around.
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