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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 22:31:39 GMT -5
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Mar 31, 2015 8:55:33 GMT -5
What an episode.
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Post by MrsLangdonAlger on Mar 31, 2015 13:28:27 GMT -5
It's been a long time since I cried that much due to something on TV. |
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Post by Carade on Mar 31, 2015 18:37:29 GMT -5
Didn't know Odenkirk had it in him. I'm weirdly proud.
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Post by saganaut on Apr 1, 2015 15:21:40 GMT -5
These past few episodes have been absolutely fantastic. Going from being so excited to see Jimmy and Chuck working together (and Chuck starting his recovery) to that awful betrayal was devastating. This show continues to exceed my already high expectations.
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Post by saganaut on Apr 7, 2015 20:59:30 GMT -5
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Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 8, 2015 1:08:18 GMT -5
I really didn't like the finale. I thought it was mostly boring. I remember looking at the clock around the 50 minute mark and thinking how boring the episode was. Then the ending felt too rushed. I don't really buy that Jimmy would just walk away like that. I mean, I know Saul happens, but that felt quite rushed to me. I don't think the season in general, nor this episode in particular, really gave me enough to justify that.
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Post by pairesta on Apr 8, 2015 5:35:30 GMT -5
I really didn't like the finale. I thought it was mostly boring. I remember looking at the clock around the 50 minute mark and thinking how boring the episode was. Then the ending felt too rushed. I don't really buy that Jimmy would just walk away like that. I mean, I know Saul happens, but that felt quite rushed to me. I don't think the season in general, nor this episode in particular, really gave me enough to justify that. I agree with everything you said. Didn't need the digression back to Cicero; maybe just pad out the beginning flashback and that would have done it. And yes, the ending was too on the nose: it might as well have been him turning to the camera and saying "JIMMY? WHO IS THAT I AM SAUL NOW." |
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Apr 8, 2015 10:14:54 GMT -5
Same.
It's so frustrating that after 9 episodes of absolutely earning this big moment for Jimmy, when it finally comes it feels completely unearned. As those famous, quiet credits hit the screen, I sat in silence. Not the stunned silence of contemplation or shock - like after seeing The Master, or hell any number of Breaking Bad episodes - but instead a silence that says: "Uh ... is that really it?"
The complaints are many:
- Spending so much time away from the core setting and characters is frustrating for a finale, maybe unfairly so, because I want to see an ensemble progression.
- The coughing. "HEY EVERYBODY, THIS GUY'S NOT DOING SO HOT!!!" felt too obvious
- The montage was fun for about 25 seconds but lasted forever. Opinion seems split on this sequence over on TOC.
- I liked the absurdist quality of the bingo breakdown. All the B's reminded me of Rosencrants & Guildenstern Are Dead, and that's never a bad thing. But the pacing of Jimmy's speech felt off, and it imploded more than exploded.
- The timing of Marco's death. I mean, come on.
After a terrific season and following the incredible high of "Pimento," this just wasn't a very entertaining hour of television. Considering the added pressure of it being the finale. Yeah, bummed.
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Post by ganews on Apr 8, 2015 17:03:30 GMT -5
I'll stick up for the finale. Something had to come after the reveal of Pimento, and this was acceptable. Like I said at the old country, I appreciate that this conversion to Saul is happening on Jimmy's own terms. He's not doing it out to Chuck out of anger, he's not doing it because everyone assumes he will - he's doing it on his own terms (or at least that's what he has convinced himself). Eating shit for a decade was enough, and going to a new company isn't a guaranteed change: witness Kim's struggle to climb the latter despite her talent. Like Mike told the Walt stand-in, it's up to Jimmy to decide how to be.
As far as the present Cicero plotline: anyone would need a vacation after Pimento. The manner of Marco's death was a bit too much, but ehhh,
I'm glad the bingo speech wasn't an explosion. Jimmy's not the type to explode on a bunch of nice elderly folks.
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Post by saganaut on Apr 8, 2015 17:31:57 GMT -5
I really enjoyed the finale. I also totally bought that Jimmy needed to escape for a while following what had just happened to him, and it was really fun to see him grifting people back in Cicero. And the bingo scene was great and also so hard for me to watch; Odenkirk played it perfectly and it was heartbreaking to watch him fall apart like that.
Regarding the ending, I didn't take it that he suddenly made up his mind to become Saul and we're not going to see any more of Jimmy; I think (and hope) the writers love Jimmy as much as I do and I don't think they're in too much of a hurry to get us to Saul. I imagine that the transition will be slow and that Jimmy won't be able to easily suppress his natural morality.
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Apr 8, 2015 17:36:25 GMT -5
I also didn't get why Jimmy turned away.
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Post by nowimnothing on Apr 8, 2015 18:29:32 GMT -5
I also didn't get why Jimmy turned away. For 10 years he tried to follow the path laid out to him by his brother only to learn it was rigged against him from the start. Even if he did get a job with another law firm, it would not give him his brother's respect. If he cannot get that anyway, why keep to the straight life when he felt so free as Slippin' Jimmy? |
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Apr 8, 2015 18:37:07 GMT -5
I also didn't get why Jimmy turned away. For 10 years he tried to follow the path laid out to him by his brother only to learn it was rigged against him from the start. Even if he did get a job with another law firm, it would not give him his brother's respect. If he cannot get that anyway, why keep to the straight life when he felt so free as Slippin' Jimmy? Thank you. |
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Post by The Prighlofone on Apr 8, 2015 18:49:49 GMT -5
bingo breakdown. All the B's reminded me of Rosencrants & Guildenstern Are Dead, and that's never a bad thing. But the pacing of Jimmy's speech felt off, and it imploded more than exploded. BINGO? BREAKDOWN? 2 MORE B'S?!?!?!? The breakdown was excellent, but I don't think this episode measured up to its predecessors, I'm just not exactly sure how I feel about it. It was nowhere near as earned, it seemed, as "BB"'s final scene of the last episode of the first season. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 8, 2015 22:54:26 GMT -5
I also didn't get why Jimmy turned away. For 10 years he tried to follow the path laid out to him by his brother only to learn it was rigged against him from the start. Even if he did get a job with another law firm, it would not give him his brother's respect. If he cannot get that anyway, why keep to the straight life when he felt so free as Slippin' Jimmy? Because this episode went out of its way to show that being Slippin' Jimmy had gotten tiring and old for Jimmy. And he preferred the life he had built. And he had a realization that he was actually good at what he did. Even freaking Howard said he liked him. And that's all just in this episode. So, the ending feels like it comes out of nowhere. |
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Post by ganews on Apr 8, 2015 23:02:04 GMT -5
For 10 years he tried to follow the path laid out to him by his brother only to learn it was rigged against him from the start. Even if he did get a job with another law firm, it would not give him his brother's respect. If he cannot get that anyway, why keep to the straight life when he felt so free as Slippin' Jimmy? Because this episode went out of its way to show that being Slippin' Jimmy had gotten tiring and old for Jimmy. And he preferred the life he had built. And he had a realization that he was actually good at what he did. Even freaking Howard said he liked him. And that's all just in this episode. So, the ending feels like it comes out of nowhere. But Howard was talking down to him: Teti makes the point. Maybe he was tired of being Slippin' Jimmy, but that doesn't mean he's ready to live under the yoke of The Man. |
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Apr 9, 2015 5:08:15 GMT -5
I also didn't get why Jimmy turned away. For 10 years he tried to follow the path laid out to him by his brother only to learn it was rigged against him from the start. Even if he did get a job with another law firm, it would not give him his brother's respect. If he cannot get that anyway, why keep to the straight life when he felt so free as Slippin' Jimmy? I think there’s an element of fear of losing his identity/becoming his brother as well. I really enjoyed the Cicero/Chicago interlude, and I think there Jimmy’s clear about who he is whereas he’s much less sure of himself when he’s legitimately lawyering. He has to psyche himself up, nothing is easy, there’s always a layer of interdependence and bullshit, and you might have to wait a long time for a payoff, even if it’s uncertain. The short con gives you instant gratification, and Jimmy’s realizing that he’s had easy opportunities slip through his fingers. Chuck’s an asshole, but he’s not entirely wrong about Jimmy’s character, either—he’s not averse to taking shortcuts. |
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Post by odnetnin on Apr 12, 2015 0:49:37 GMT -5
bingo breakdown. All the B's reminded me of Rosencrants & Guildenstern Are Dead, and that's never a bad thing. But the pacing of Jimmy's speech felt off, and it imploded more than exploded. BINGO? BREAKDOWN? 2 MORE B'S?!?!?!? The breakdown was excellent, but I don't think this episode measured up to its predecessors, I'm just not exactly sure how I feel about it. It was nowhere near as earned, it seemed, as "BB"'s final scene of the last episode of the first season. To be fair, the final scene of the last episode of BB's first season is one of the show's very best and a phenomenal summation of its protagonist and universe. I love the quiet, somber note it hits, especially in comparison to the plane crashes and tie-straightening skeletons of later years. Side note: does anyone else think the show got way too plot-heavy in its last couple seasons, to the point where 5A just ended on a cliffhanger that had almost zero thematic resonance? Like, Hank finally finds out the thing we have been waiting the whole series for him to find out. And that is it. My only major takeaway from seasons 4 and 5 is that Walt is a really, really bad person. |
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Apr 12, 2015 4:10:24 GMT -5
I think every season ending had thematic resonance, even the 5A cliffhanger. Just because Walt quit doesn't mean the consequences of his actions won't come back to haunt him.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Apr 12, 2015 19:56:05 GMT -5
They did get plot heavy. But, that's okay to me. I liked the idea of Walt being so arrogant that he would leave evidence connecting himself to a known drug manufacturer just lying around in his bathroom. I really liked the ending with Hank figuring it out.
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Post by odnetnin on Apr 14, 2015 23:21:19 GMT -5
I think every season ending had thematic resonance, even the 5A cliffhanger. Just because Walt quit doesn't mean the consequences of his actions won't come back to haunt him. I guess the issue I still have then is that they don't end up really coming back to haunt him, when all is said and done. Sure, Ozymandias won an Emmy for a reason, and Granite State is for the most part beautifully melancholy, but Felina ends with essentially a victory for Walt which rings hollow to me. They did get plot heavy. But, that's okay to me. I liked the idea of Walt being so arrogant that he would leave evidence connecting himself to a known drug manufacturer just lying around in his bathroom. I really liked the ending with Hank figuring it out. That is a good point, and one that was foolish of me to forget (or perhaps I never really realized it in the first place?). And you're right that plot-heaviness and thematic depth are by no means mutually exclusive. Maybe the larger problem I have with the rest of the series isn't the empty cliffhangers, but the fact that a Walt as arrogant as you describe is someone I no longer find relateable or even interesting as a protagonist. He has become a straight-up villain. This would work if the show had shifted focus and found a new protagonist, but the obvious candidate, Jesse, feels almost like a footnote in Felina. I think if that episode had stuck the landing better, I would look at seasons 4 and 5 more favorably. |
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Apr 15, 2015 7:15:48 GMT -5
Is what happens in Felina really a victory though? Maybe a pyrrhic one. It's an episode full of melancholy and regret.
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Post by nowimnothing on Apr 15, 2015 9:56:08 GMT -5
Is what happens in Felina really a victory though? Maybe a pyrrhic one. It's an episode full of melancholy and regret. I guess we could ask if at the end that Walt felt it was all worth it. On one hand he did make sure his family was not destitute and he was king of the hill for the first time in his life. On the other he sowed a lot of misery, lost his humanity and precious time from his family. Even if we throw the ego motivation out, the ability to make sure your family is ok after you are gone is a tough call to make. |
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Feb 10, 2016 15:41:59 GMT -5
Next week, the best worst lawyer's back. Random tribute video:
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Post by Desert Dweller on Feb 10, 2016 22:42:29 GMT -5
Really hoping it backtracks on the season finale a bit. Hoping the abruptness in the finale didn't signal a permanent shift. My co-worker in the next cubicle is watching it, too. So, now I have a work buddy to talk about it with!
(Unless I get this promotion. Then I may get an office!)
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Post by odnetnin on Feb 12, 2016 4:09:43 GMT -5
Really hoping it backtracks on the season finale a bit. Hoping the abruptness in the finale didn't signal a permanent shift. My co-worker in the next cubicle is watching it, too. So, now I have a work buddy to talk about it with! (Unless I get this promotion. Then I may get an office!) Without spoiling anything, according to a review I read, I think you'll be pleased with the direction it takes. Also, my only friend at college who I have dinner with every night also watches it, so I have a real person to about it with too! (Good luck on that promotion.) I was planning on rewatching season one when it came on Netflix although probably skipping the finale, considering I think it's so bad that it literally makes the entire show worse. But life got in the way, so I must trust my hazy memory of electric blankets and pimento sandwiches will prepare me for the continuing misadventures of Jimmy McGill. I haven't had a decent show since Fargo. Bring on Saul! |
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Post by The Prighlofone on Feb 13, 2016 11:45:14 GMT -5
I can't agree that the finale is anywhere as bad as people are making it out to be, looking back in hindsight. I rewatched it and it held up surprisingly well, and the end scenes with Marco were incredibly poignant. The biggest problem with it is its last two minutes. I still have high hopes for Monday's premiere and the rest of the season.
Having the focus be on Jimmy/Saul rather than Walt, as it was in "Breaking Bad", makes it easier to rewatch (in binge form, particularly) and as amazing as Walt was as a character and "BB" was as a series, I really like having a more sympathetic (if still very flawed) protagonist.
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Post by The Stuffingtacular She-Hulk on Feb 13, 2016 12:32:02 GMT -5
Having the focus be on Jimmy/Saul rather than Walt, as it was in "Breaking Bad", makes it easier to rewatch (in binge form, particularly) and as amazing as Walt was as a character and "BB" was as a series, I really like having a more sympathetic (if still very flawed) protagonist. I have to agree. As great as Breaking Bad was, and as amazing as Bryan Cranston was as Walt, it was still very difficult for me to watch because he lost any redeeming qualities so quickly. I don't need my protagonists to be sweetness and light - I honestly prefer them to be much more morally complex than that - but Walt was just such pure evil that it was a relief to be done with the show. A bit like a master production of Macbeth, really; thrilling and awful to watch, but it's a study in how much of a monster someone can become, not whether he does become the monster. Walt never even started out remotely likable, just kind of weak and pathetic and mean-spirited. Jimmy/Saul is much more fascinating to me because he isn't a horrible evil monster, but a very ordinary guy in a lot of respects who struggles with his own personal morals and values. Watching him agonize over crossing certain lines is infinitely more compelling to me, especially because we know where he ends up but not the how. I find that kind of personal journey really interesting, and Better Call Saul has done a fantastic job of showing just how an idealistic go-getter with a shady con-artist past tries to redeem himself and winds up sliding backwards despite his best efforts. It's less bombastic and I'm sure we're not gonna get an automated machine gun in the trunk in the series finale, but I find it the better story overall. |
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LazBro
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Post by LazBro on Feb 16, 2016 10:28:12 GMT -5
Well, that was really great.
Particularly excited to see where the Mike/Price/Nacho plot is going. Over at TOC, Donna's suspicion is that Price is almost certainly a client-to-be for Jimmy. Which yeah, seems reasonable.
Loved those cops' suspicious read of the scene, and Price's complete obliviousness.
Welcome back, show, you've been missed.
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