dwarfoscar
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Post by dwarfoscar on Oct 7, 2017 3:30:07 GMT -5
OK, so if we're going to try to shit on all the movies from the article that ganews linked, here's the ones that nobody's bashed yet: 34. Battle Royale (Matt questioned whether it was sci-fi, but that's not really shitting on the film or even saying it doesn't belong on the list) 32. The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension28. Ghost In the Shell (1995 version, not the 2017 Scarlett Johansson remake) 27. Donnie Darko26. The Terminator22. Upstream Color21. Jurassic Park20. RoboCop (me bashing the film for looking like shit doesn't count since I haven't actually seen the movie, or even attempted to watch the film and failed to get through it) 18. Terminator 2: Judgment Day (yeah, ganews said it's a shame that it's ranked above the original, but he still said it's a good film, and didn't imply that it doesn't belong on this list at all, so I'm not counting his comment as bashing the film) 17. Starship Troopers15. Arrival14. The Fly (Jeff Goldblum version, obviously) 13. Under the Skin (weary has since given the film his tepid anti-endorsement) 11. 12 Monkeys 9. Mad Max: Fury Road8. Primer6. Children of Men5. Back to the Future4. Aliens (nobody has said that it doesn't deserve to be on the list, just that it's a little overrated due to its quotability and that it shouldn't be ranked above Alien, which wasn't actually eligible for this list, since it was released in 1979, three years before Blade Runner) 3. BrazilI don't include WALL-E on the list because while nobody has bashed WALL-E on this thread yet specifically in reference to the article, Jimmy literally just mentioned that she doesn't like the film a couple of posts before ganews linked the article. Also, the most egregious snub on this list, which I don't think anyone has mentioned, is Return of the Jedi, which came out the year after Blade Runner, and is better than most (by which I mean all) of these movies. And I'd say that TFA also deserves to be on the list, albeit probably closer to the bottom than the top. I can try a low-energy put-down of Brazil : It didn't age that well, and it's a better movie to think about than to actually watch. Also, Ghost in the Shell : I'd like it better if I understood what the hell is happening. The incomprehensible dialogues get tiring after a while. Roy Batty's Pet Dove already crapped on my favorite movie of all time ( Eternal Sunshine) so now I'm dreading the anti- 12 Monkeys rant that's just around the corner
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Post by ganews on Oct 7, 2017 5:19:46 GMT -5
Ghost in the Shell was OK, but the anime adaptation Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex was way better.
Pretty tired of Star Wars, myself. At least no one in this thread is stumping for Rogue One.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Oct 7, 2017 6:58:34 GMT -5
I'm not convinced Verhoeven really even intended it to be satire. Verhoeven's been pretty explicit that he intended it as satire, and given the rest of his filmography it's pretty easy to believe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 11:47:36 GMT -5
12 Monkeys it is 90s down to the core, in the worst ways. The production design is so ugly it makes the film unpleasant. The main relationship is stupid. It isn't profound in anyway, just a mindscrew to be a mindscrew.
Also, I just want to say. NO DARK CITY ON THAT LIST! The only correct ranking on it, is that Dark City wasn't, because Dark City is fucking trash.
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dwarfoscar
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it's complicated
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Post by dwarfoscar on Oct 7, 2017 11:56:05 GMT -5
12 Monkeys it is 90s down to the core, in the worst ways. The production design is so ugly it makes the film unpleasant. The main relationship is stupid. It isn't profound in anyway, just a mindscrew to be a mindscrew. I knew it was going to happen. I feel weirdly relieved now...
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Oct 7, 2017 12:50:05 GMT -5
Are we not listing Groundhog Day as a snub because we don't think it's a sci-fi film or because we don't think it's a good film?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 13:28:42 GMT -5
Are we not listing Groundhog Day as a snub because we don't think it's a sci-fi film or because we don't think it's a good film? Wouldn't that be more Fantasy than Scifi? Sure it was time travel, but time travel that seemed more implied by "magic" instead of technology. Also, the main genre is comedy.
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Post by ganews on Oct 7, 2017 17:07:53 GMT -5
Are we not listing Groundhog Day as a snub because we don't think it's a sci-fi film or because we don't think it's a good film? Wouldn't that be more Fantasy than Scifi? Sure it was time travel, but time travel that seemed more implied by "magic" instead of technology. Also, the main genre is comedy. There's no rule that sci-fi can't be comedy. I'm not as big a fan as everyone else I know, but Galaxy Quest deserves its spot on the list. But yeah, Groundhog Day is fantasy because there's no technical (even fake techno-babble) explanation for the premise.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 17:32:31 GMT -5
Wouldn't that be more Fantasy than Scifi? Sure it was time travel, but time travel that seemed more implied by "magic" instead of technology. Also, the main genre is comedy. There's no rule that sci-fi can't be comedy. I'm not as big a fan as everyone else I know, but Galaxy Quest deserves its spot on the list. But yeah, Groundhog Day is fantasy because there's no technical (even fake techno-babble) explanation for the premise. Im not saying that scifi cant be comedy, just that Groundhog day is mainly thought of as a comedy. That is what most people categorize it as, and not even a fantasy or anything else. It is kinda the same situation as Battle Royale, where people see that more as an action film than anything else. Like the only time I have seen it classified as scifi was in that AV Club list.
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Oct 7, 2017 18:21:44 GMT -5
Wouldn't that be more Fantasy than Scifi? Sure it was time travel, but time travel that seemed more implied by "magic" instead of technology. Also, the main genre is comedy. There's no rule that sci-fi can't be comedy. I'm not as big a fan as everyone else I know, but Galaxy Quest deserves its spot on the list. But yeah, Groundhog Day is fantasy because there's no technical (even fake techno-babble) explanation for the premise. I am going to strongly disagree here. My distinction between sci-fi and fantasy isn't aesthetic, but... I guess the succinct way to put it is that fantasy explains how another world is, while sci-fi explains what our world could be. Neither of which especially describes Groundhog Day, admittedly, so that's kind of me going off on a tangent. Anyway, the main drive of Groundhog Day is that Bill Murray begins to experience time differently than everyone around him, and that has a profound effect on his worldview. Isn't that decidedly a science fiction story, in the same way "The Inner Light" or Slaughterhouse-Five are science fiction stories?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 18:50:13 GMT -5
There's no rule that sci-fi can't be comedy. I'm not as big a fan as everyone else I know, but Galaxy Quest deserves its spot on the list. But yeah, Groundhog Day is fantasy because there's no technical (even fake techno-babble) explanation for the premise. I am going to strongly disagree here. My distinction between sci-fi and fantasy isn't aesthetic, but... I guess the succinct way to put it is that fantasy explains how another world is, while sci-fi explains what our world could be. Neither of which especially describes Groundhog Day, admittedly, so that's kind of me going off on a tangent. Anyway, the main drive of Groundhog Day is that Bill Murray begins to experience time differently than everyone around him, and that has a profound effect on his worldview. Isn't that decidedly a science fiction story, in the same way "The Inner Light" or Slaughterhouse-Five are science fiction stories? Not sure I'm fully on board with "Groundhog Day-as-science fiction," but that delineation between the otherworldly and the theoretical actually ties into the earlier discussion of whether something like Battle Royale counts as sci-fi.
BR is essentially a giant critique on how Japan's older generation mistreats the younger generation, with the Beat Takeshi character literally forcing his students into a massive deathmatch. A lot of dystopian and alternative history fiction doesn't have any overt signs of being science fiction but still gets thrown under that banner. I think Diaz may have just hit the nail on the head as to why - the speculative aspect.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 20:05:16 GMT -5
Okay, just thought of one: soft focus in old black-and-white movies bugs me. Especially when they spatter it all over only the female characters to an egregious amount.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Oct 7, 2017 21:22:57 GMT -5
Here is how we currently stand wrt bashing all the films on the list:
34. Battle Royale (Matt questioned whether it was sci-fi, but that's not really shitting on the film or even saying it doesn't belong on the list) 32. The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension 28. Ghost In the Shell (1995 version, not the 2017 Scarlett Johansson remake) (dwarfoscar finds the dialogue incomprehensible to the point that it ruins the film) 27. Donnie Darko (Rosa Diaz sorta bashed it, and Matt hates it because it gave us Southland Tales or something) 26. The Terminator 22. Upstream Color 21. Jurassic Park 20. RoboCop (me bashing the film for looking like shit doesn't count since I haven't actually seen the movie, or even attempted to watch the film and failed to get through it) 18. Terminator 2: Judgment Day (yeah, ganews said it's a shame that it's ranked above the original, but he still said it's a good film, and didn't imply that it doesn't belong on this list at all, so I'm not counting his comment as bashing the film) 17. Starship Troopers (Desert Dweller has doubts as to whether the film is actually a satire, and contends that regardless it is unfunny, poorly-written, and badly-acted) 15. Arrival 14. The Fly (Jeff Goldblum version, obviously) 13. Under the Skin (weary has since given the film his tepid anti-endorsement) 11. 12 Monkeys (Matt finds it to be extremely dated, gratingly 90sish with shitty production, which I like to imagine means that the main characters all play for expansion sports franchises and are thus wearing a truly excessive amount of teal; furthermore, Matt argues that the main relationship is just trite mindfuckery rather than clever) 9. Mad Max: Fury Road 8. Primer 6. Children of Men 5. Back to the Future (Prole thinks it's nothing more than a pleasant charming film, unworthy of making the list at all, and even ignoring the racism and incest, the sci-fi isn't very clever) 4. Aliens (nobody has said that it doesn't deserve to be on the list, just that it's a little overrated due to its quotability and that it shouldn't be ranked above Alien, which wasn't actually eligible for this list, since it was released in 1979, three years before Blade Runner) 3. Brazil (dwarfoscar contends that it's aged poorly and is better as a concept than it is in execution)
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Oct 7, 2017 21:24:06 GMT -5
I'm not convinced Verhoeven really even intended it to be satire. Verhoeven's been pretty explicit that he intended it as satire, and given the rest of his filmography it's pretty easy to believe. To be fair, Tommy Wiseau also insists that The Room was intentionally comedic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 21:37:36 GMT -5
Here is how we currently stand wrt bashing all the films on the list: 34. Battle Royale (Matt questioned whether it was sci-fi, but that's not really shitting on the film or even saying it doesn't belong on the list) 32. The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension28. Ghost In the Shell (1995 version, not the 2017 Scarlett Johansson remake) (dwarfoscar finds the dialogue incomprehensible to the point that it ruins the film) 27. Donnie Darko26. The Terminator22. Upstream Color21. Jurassic Park20. RoboCop (me bashing the film for looking like shit doesn't count since I haven't actually seen the movie, or even attempted to watch the film and failed to get through it) 18. Terminator 2: Judgment Day (yeah, ganews said it's a shame that it's ranked above the original, but he still said it's a good film, and didn't imply that it doesn't belong on this list at all, so I'm not counting his comment as bashing the film) 17. Starship Troopers (Desert Dweller has doubts as to whether the film is actually a satire, and contends that regardless it is unfunny, poorly-written, and badly-acted) 15. Arrival14. The Fly (Jeff Goldblum version, obviously) 13. Under the Skin (weary has since given the film his tepid anti-endorsement) 11. 12 Monkeys (Matt finds it to be extremely dated, gratingly 90sish with shitty production, which I like to imagine means that the main characters all play for expansion sports franchises and are thus wearing a truly excessive amount of teal; furthermore, Matt argues that the main relationship is just trite mindfuckery rather than clever) 9. Mad Max: Fury Road8. Primer6. Children of Men5. Back to the Future4. Aliens (nobody has said that it doesn't deserve to be on the list, just that it's a little overrated due to its quotability and that it shouldn't be ranked above Alien, which wasn't actually eligible for this list, since it was released in 1979, three years before Blade Runner) 3. Brazil (dwarfoscar contends that it's aged poorly and is better as a concept than it is in execution) Come at Arrival and Mad Max. Do it. I can't wait. wow that image is big
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Oct 7, 2017 22:40:53 GMT -5
Ok, I'll kinda bite: I think Donnie Darko is hilarious (both intentionally and unintentionally), but I couldn't care less about the sci-fi stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 22:47:43 GMT -5
Donnie Darko lead to Southland Tales, so fuck it.
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Post by Prole Hole on Oct 8, 2017 7:36:55 GMT -5
It's Sunday, I'm drinking a nice cup of tea, and I feel like slaughtering a sacred cow so...
5. Back To The Future - BTTF is a lovely little film. And that's it. Michael J Fox is charming. And that's it. Christopher Lloyd plays That Christopher Lloyd Role. And that's it. Even putting aside obvious issues (a white guy invented rock and roll! Weird incest vibes!) this is a nice little film which deserves to be seen that way. It is, however not a particularly great sci-fi movie, not a particularly funny comedy, and not a particularly great puzzle box (and on a purely personal level I loathe the 50's revival that happened in the 80's). It's... nice. And that's Ok, there's a place for nice, absolutely there is. But that place isn't the number five position on the best 35 sci-fi films since Bladerunner. I'm doubtful it should crack this list, though top fifty maybe wouldn't seem unreasonable.
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dLᵒ
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𝓐𝓻𝓮 𝓦𝓮 𝓒𝓸𝓸𝓵 𝓨𝓮𝓽?
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Post by dLᵒ on Oct 9, 2017 1:47:22 GMT -5
19. Videodrome (1983) - Pretty good as an art piece but I'm be concerned about someone who was really into it. (sheepishly raises hand)
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Post by chalkdevil's night 😈 on Oct 9, 2017 11:07:21 GMT -5
I feel like I disagree with most everything everyone is saying about the scifi films. That feels like an unpopular opinion.
That being said, in the spirit of ragging on the list, I'm going to go with Primer. It's one of those movies that I don't think makes any sense but does it so confidently that everyone assumes it actually does make sense, so admitting to not getting it is admitting that you're not smart enough to "get it" when really it just does a poor job of explaining itself. Other movies on this list do this to a lesser extent (Donnie Darko, Brazil) but usually have something else interesting going so it doesn't just feel like I'm reading a textbook going into all the math behind string theory.
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Post by ganews on Oct 9, 2017 12:04:01 GMT -5
So I'm bored at the house on my day off, and Hellboy II: The Golden Army is on. The original was pretty tight and well-done, and I've been hearing about this sequel for year. Guillermo del Toro wanted another, so this is bound to be worth a watch.
...Oh my god is this movie bad. del Toro can make (or put together a team to make) a good setpiece and monster design (except for teenage Hellboy, that looked awful) but this movie is terrible. The acting is weak, the writing is worse, the thrown-out bits for continuity with the first movie are ridiculous. How does this thing have a following?
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Oct 10, 2017 13:31:06 GMT -5
I'm not convinced Verhoeven really even intended it to be satire. Verhoeven's been pretty explicit that he intended it as satire, and given the rest of his filmography it's pretty easy to believe. I can kind of see where Desert Dweller is coming from, though—having only seen the film in 2015 I was wondering why there was ever any ambiguity as to whether it was satire or not—it seemed too obvious to me, especially with the little news bumpers being pretty clearly tongue-in-cheek in conception. But put yourself back in the late nineties, back when you had a lot of action-sci-fi media very much like Starship Troopers being made completely unironically, and the fact that Starship Troopers is entirely a subversion of the ideology, as opposed to a satire of the storytelling tropes of action-sci-fi, also adds to this. I wonder if this was intentional on Verhoeven’s part, but the only one who seems to play as if he’s in on the joke is Neil Patrick Harris’s gestapo-esque officer, which is completely chilling.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Oct 10, 2017 13:37:14 GMT -5
Verhoeven's been pretty explicit that he intended it as satire, and given the rest of his filmography it's pretty easy to believe. I can kind of see where Desert Dweller is coming from, though—having only seen the film in 2015 I was wondering why there was ever any ambiguity as to whether it was satire or not—it seemed too obvious to me, especially with the little news bumpers being pretty clearly tongue-in-cheek in conception. But put yourself back in the late nineties, back when you had a lot of action-sci-fi media very much like Starship Troopers being made completely unironically, and the fact that Starship Troopers is entirely a subversion of the ideology, as opposed to a satire of the storytelling tropes of action-sci-fi, also adds to this. I wonder if this was intentional on Verhoeven’s part, but the only one who seems to play as if he’s in on the joke is Neil Patrick Harris’s gestapo-esque officer, which is completely chilling. To be fair, while I like several of the actors in the movie, NPH is probably the only one I'd even maybe call a good actor. That's not really a super-strong group.
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Post by Wallet Inspector on Oct 10, 2017 16:25:59 GMT -5
Which leaves us with my most valuable contribution to completing the list, that being: 1. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - I'm glad that there's a film that calls out literally every other rom-com in history for its creepy bullshit, but Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind just isn't that great of a movie. It's not very funny at all for one thing (I can remember laughing once throughout the whole film), which is a bad thing, given that it's a comedy. Furthermore, the central premise just isn't profound enough, nor the performances good enough, to justify it being seen as one of the greatest sci-fi films of its time. I . . . genuinely can't recall anyone ever referring to Eternal Sunshine as a comedy. It's one of my favorite films, but I certainly would never have thought to describe it even remotely as a comedy.
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Post by Wallet Inspector on Oct 10, 2017 16:29:17 GMT -5
If Groundhog Day is sci-fi, Big and Freaky Friday are also sci-fi.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 16:32:48 GMT -5
Which leaves us with my most valuable contribution to completing the list, that being: 1. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - I'm glad that there's a film that calls out literally every other rom-com in history for its creepy bullshit, but Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind just isn't that great of a movie. It's not very funny at all for one thing (I can remember laughing once throughout the whole film), which is a bad thing, given that it's a comedy. Furthermore, the central premise just isn't profound enough, nor the performances good enough, to justify it being seen as one of the greatest sci-fi films of its time. I . . . genuinely can't recall anyone ever referring to Eternal Sunshine as a comedy. It's one of my favorite films, but I certainly would never have thought to describe it even remotely as a comedy. The ad-boys certainly tried. TW: pain
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dwarfoscar
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Post by dwarfoscar on Oct 10, 2017 16:41:20 GMT -5
Verhoeven's been pretty explicit that he intended it as satire, and given the rest of his filmography it's pretty easy to believe. I can kind of see where Desert Dweller is coming from, though—having only seen the film in 2015 I was wondering why there was ever any ambiguity as to whether it was satire or not—it seemed too obvious to me, especially with the little news bumpers being pretty clearly tongue-in-cheek in conception. But put yourself back in the late nineties, back when you had a lot of action-sci-fi media very much like Starship Troopers being made completely unironically, and the fact that Starship Troopers is entirely a subversion of the ideology, as opposed to a satire of the storytelling tropes of action-sci-fi, also adds to this. I wonder if this was intentional on Verhoeven’s part, but the only one who seems to play as if he’s in on the joke is Neil Patrick Harris’s gestapo-esque officer, which is completely chilling. Sigh... There it is... the moment I was afraid would come... the moment you guys will realize how stupid I must be I watched Starship Troopers for the first time a few months ago, with full knowledge of how satiric it's supposed to be. And... I didn't think it was that obvious, and I'm 100% sure I would have completely missed it if I'd watched it in '97. That's why every time i hear someone say 'God, the satire in Starship Troopers is so obvious ! How could these morons not have noticed that ?', I slightly recoil in shame. I should probably stay away from Scarface...
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Oct 11, 2017 0:05:28 GMT -5
The real problem with Starship Troopers is that being a satire on shallow sci-fi action flicks doesn't forgive it from being a shallow sci-fi action flick.
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Oct 11, 2017 2:23:26 GMT -5
From what I understand it's actually a satire of the fascist ideology found in the novel.
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Post by Gamblin' Telly on Oct 11, 2017 5:32:39 GMT -5
Deep Blue Sea is way better than Jaws.
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