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Post by Post-St. Patty's Day Bloat on Oct 11, 2017 17:00:50 GMT -5
*breathes a sigh of relief*
I really didn't like Starship Troopers much, truth be told. Not at age 14 when it hit video, not recently at 33. And this is coming from someone who came of age watching the likes of Robocop and Total Recall religiously.
Wow, that felt good.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Oct 12, 2017 1:00:10 GMT -5
The real problem with Starship Troopers is that being a satire on shallow sci-fi action flicks doesn't forgive it from being a shallow sci-fi action flick. Exactly. Thank you for saying that much more succinctly than I could.
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Post by chalkdevil's night ๐ on Oct 12, 2017 9:25:44 GMT -5
I like Starship Troopers. 16 year old chalkdevil liked it for the aliens, boobs, and Doogie Howser MD. 36 year old chalkdevil likes it for the aliens, Doogie Howser MD, Clancy Brown, and Michael goddamn Ironside. The boobs are still cool, but, due to advances in technology in the last 20 years, boobs are much more readily available to see without sitting through a 2 hour movie and pausing your VCR, so it looses some appeal. And, I agree with Lone Locust of the Apocalypse that the satire is more about the jingoistic ra-ra military themes of the book. Also, I should think, Nazi propaganda films. I guess you could argue that it is riffing on sci-fi action movies like Aliens, but Aliens is already riffing on Starship Troopers the book. In closing, Starship Troopers is fun to watch. Put it in a triple feature with Robocop and Total Recall, and your all set for a gory, heavy-handed night of sci-fi goodness.
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Trurl
Shoutbox Elitist
Posts: 7,668
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Post by Trurl on Oct 12, 2017 10:13:54 GMT -5
Satire doesn't age well when reality goes on to exceed the satire. When Robocop came out, casting an Entertainment Tonight host as a serious news anchor was a trenchant comment on the nature of news - it came out the same year as "Broadcast News", a movie where Holly Hunter's producer is aghast that William Hurt *stages his reaction to a human interest story*. People still had *faith* in the news at the time - watching Robocop, the idea of the nightly news being ET style PR fluff was funny and chilling.
The satire of media in Starship Troopers was similar - the idea that, for instance, news and entertainment could ever be that much in thrall to military and jingoistic propaganda at the time seemed ridiculous, yet here we are.
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LazBro
Prolific Poster
Posts: 10,196
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Post by LazBro on Oct 12, 2017 10:15:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I like Starship Troopers, too. Whatever satire, subtext or depth it claims to have I couldn't care less about. I like the action and still think the bugs look awesome.
Plus, it deserves its place on the AVC list just for Jesse's write up. That double-slam on Jake Busey was great (and I LIKE Jake Busey).
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Trurl
Shoutbox Elitist
Posts: 7,668
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Post by Trurl on Oct 12, 2017 10:34:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I like Starship Troopers, too. Whatever satire, subtext or depth it claims to have I couldn't care less about. I like the action and still think the bugs look awesome. Plus, it deserves its place on the AVC list just for Jesse's write up. That double-slam on Jake Busey was great (and I LIKE Jake Busey). Those of us born in the 60s saw an awful lot of WW2 propaganda movies growing up, back in the era before cable tv. Satirising it went along with the rest of the anti-war stuff of the 70s, so Starship Troopers didn't need to have people living in this blatantly fascistic world *commenting* on the fact that they were living in a blatantly fascistic world. I thought it was hilarious and frightening, and when people missed the satire at the time I was so confused.
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Post by DangOlJimmyITellYouWhat on Oct 12, 2017 11:07:02 GMT -5
I feel like I disagree with most everything everyone is saying about the scifi films. That feels like an unpopular opinion. That being said, in the spirit of ragging on the list, I'm going to go with Primer. It's one of those movies that I don't think makes any sense but does it so confidently that everyone assumes it actually does make sense, so admitting to not getting it is admitting that you're not smart enough to "get it" when really it just does a poor job of explaining itself. Other movies on this list do this to a lesser extent (Donnie Darko, Brazil) but usually have something else interesting going so it doesn't just feel like I'm reading a textbook going into all the math behind string theory. Primer is the worst. Deeply pretentious and yes, doesn't actually make any sense at all, but is SO PROUD of itself and very certain it has come up with something new and groundbreaking about time-travel. I am a huge time-travel dork, and usually have no trouble following the faux-science, but this was just a bunch of stuff dumped into a pile, and triumphantly displayed as ~art~.
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Post by Gamblin' Telly on Oct 13, 2017 2:43:26 GMT -5
Boogie Nights is like this pizza. At first it seems awesome but after some time you realize it's just too huge and overladen.
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Oct 13, 2017 3:08:53 GMT -5
That pizza never looked awesome
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Post by Gamblin' Telly on Oct 13, 2017 8:24:21 GMT -5
I saw Fury Road for a second time. I admit there's lot of good things to say about it and I chalked up being not so super into it to my mood when I saw it the first time around. But then the same thing happened as the first time, I found myself doing other stuff in between, dabble on the tablet, do a dish in the kitchen etc. So to say it frankly, I find it to be boring. I can't quite put my finger on why that is, what I can say is that the action is very good technically but the same for two hours. After 30 minutes of car/truck chasing and people climbing on or under trucks I'm like "Enough of this already, please". The other thing is, and admittedly this happens so often the problem has to be at least partly on my side, I didn't care what happens to these people. There's nothing wrong with the characters but somehow none of them piqued my interest in them, if there was a deus ex machina thermonuclear explosion ending anybody and anything at the 90 minute mark, I would probably like it better.
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Post by ganews on Oct 18, 2017 19:15:06 GMT -5
Edge of Tomorrow was the most fun I'd had with a movie in years until Fury Road came along.
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Oct 19, 2017 6:03:09 GMT -5
David Fincher's recent projects have all been disappointing.
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Post by Celebith on Oct 19, 2017 13:12:03 GMT -5
David Fincher's recent projects have all been disappointing. His last good movie was The Game.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Oct 19, 2017 13:21:21 GMT -5
David Fincher's recent projects have all been disappointing. His last good movie was The Game. Celebith, I think MPC has hacked your account.
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Post by louiebb on Oct 19, 2017 13:59:02 GMT -5
Edge of Tomorrow was the most fun I'd had with a movie in years until Fury Road came along. Oh indeed. Great fun flick.
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Invisible Goat
Shoutbox Elitist
Grab your mother's keys, we're leaving
Posts: 2,643
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Post by Invisible Goat on Oct 19, 2017 14:01:29 GMT -5
David Fincher's recent projects have all been disappointing. You don't like Mindhunter? I hate serial killer shit but I'm liking it a lot so far. Other than that yeah, Dragon Tattoo sucked and Gone Girl was just okay.
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Post by The Spice Weasel on Oct 19, 2017 14:38:08 GMT -5
I really enjoyed Zodiac. Need to rewatch The Game.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Oct 19, 2017 14:49:44 GMT -5
I really enjoyed Zodiac. Need to rewatch The Game. Zodiac's a masterpiece. My favorite film of his by far. Nothing else is even close.
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LazBro
Prolific Poster
Posts: 10,196
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Post by LazBro on Oct 19, 2017 15:10:32 GMT -5
Zodiac and The Social Network are both perfect movies. I love them.
I liked Gone Girl a lot, too, especially the first hour or so before the reveal when it was pure procedural.
Even Dragon Tattoo had moments, even if overall if felt weirdly inert. Actually the only Fincher I've seen that I wholly disliked was Benjamin Button. And I'm not a big fan of Fight Club, but I don't hate it. I just think it's over-rated.
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Post by chalkdevil's night ๐ on Oct 19, 2017 15:13:18 GMT -5
My esteemed dudes and dudesses- David Fincher is great. One of the best directors working today. I think he's 5 out of 10 on directing really great movies and the rest are still really good. - Alien 3 - I wasn't hung up on Aliens as much as others when I saw this so I wasn't as offended from the get go. I don't think it's as bad as it's reputation suggests. The story is a mess but there are some great visuals throughout.
- Se7en - Such a great crime thriller. It's pretty bleak, but, you know, serial killer and whatnot.
- The Game - I used to have to convince people to watch this. I like it but not as much as Se7en and...
- Fight Club - This is one of my favorite movies. It blew my little college freshman mind back in '99. Ed Norton: great. Brad Pitt: charismatic as hell. Jared Leto: punched in the damn face. Plus it had all these meta bits that felt inspired at the time. A twist that I didn't see coming. And satire of grasping masculinity in the modern world. I know it has a bad wrap now because of the shit dude-bro fans that totally missed the message, but still, fantastic film-making.
- Panic Room - This one was disappointing too me after Fight Club. It's not bad, it's just not that compelling and there was too much of the camera flying through shit that Fincher used a little in F.C. but went nuts for here.
- Zodiac - Really great. This dude can construct the hell out of a suspenseful scene.
- The Curious Case of Benjamin Button - I saw this once, it was fine.
- The Social Network - I really liked this movie. It made Facebook far more compelling than it had any right to be.
- The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo - I didn't see this one.
- Gone Girl - I liked this one okay too. It's pretty pulpy but I think that's the source material.
So, yeah, Fincher. I'm down to check out whatever he's doing. He's got a visual style that I dig.
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Post by Celebith on Oct 20, 2017 9:21:44 GMT -5
His last good movie was The Game. Celebith , I think MPC has hacked your account. I meant to reply to this, yesterday, and not to goat and mel - I haven't seen anything he's made since Panic Room, and that was pretty forgettable. s7e7v7e7n and Fight Club were good, but I never feel like I need to watch them again. I'd watch The Game again, if I stumbled across it, though.
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Post by Ben Grimm on Oct 20, 2017 9:23:20 GMT -5
Celebith , I think MPC has hacked your account. I meant to reply to this, yesterday, and not to goat and mel - I haven't seen anything he's made since Panic Room, and that was pretty forgettable. s7e7v7e7n and Fight Club were good, but I never feel like I need to watch them again. I'd watch The Game again, if I stumbled across it, though. I think Zodiac blows everything else he's done out of the water. I'd pick it over the rest of his filmography combined, honestly. It's just a masterpiece.
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Post by Celebith on Oct 20, 2017 9:28:42 GMT -5
I meant to reply to this, yesterday, and not to goat and mel - I haven't seen anything he's made since Panic Room, and that was pretty forgettable. s7e7v7e7n and Fight Club were good, but I never feel like I need to watch them again. I'd watch The Game again, if I stumbled across it, though. I think Zodiac blows everything else he's done out of the water. I'd pick it over the rest of his filmography combined, honestly. It's just a masterpiece. Cinema Sins just put up their EWW Se7en video a couple of days ago. He's a terrific director - he might be a better avatar of 90s cinema than Tarantino, for capturing all the grunge atmosphere.
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Post by The Spice Weasel on Oct 21, 2017 21:23:32 GMT -5
I love the first half of Fight Club. But the second the first guy shows up on his/their porch and it turns into the dudebro paramilitary unit, it loses me.
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ArchieLeach
AV Clubber
I talk too much, I worry me to death
Posts: 289
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Post by ArchieLeach on Oct 21, 2017 22:01:21 GMT -5
Voice-over narration is not a cop-out, a crutch, or a stain on a film's value when it's done right, any more than a music score, a close-up, or an acrobatic one-take camera movement is. Not liking voice-over is like not liking a song with lyrics.
I just saw "Brief Encounter" for the second time. It's a complete movie, with fine performances, precise dialogue, great cinematography, and an overwhelming music score (Rachmaninoff). But that voice-over narration, that's what really puts you in the leading lady's world. All the finely-calibrated guilt and pleasure, the half-hearted insults at those who interrupt intimate moments, the longing, the restraint. If an actor gives a restrained performance he or she gets accused of being wooden. The gently lisping voice-over lets us in.
And what of the most acclaimed film of all, "Citizen Kane"? A hilarious voice-over which parodies newsreel announcers tells us the entire plot within the first 20 minutes. It's a lark and a laugh, and it allows the rest of the film to bend time to its will. (See "Goodfellas" for a similar usage.)
And what if you're John Huston and you're adapting one of the great literary works of the English language, "The Dead"? Our protagonist looks out the window and sees snow falling on everything. Damn right he's going to think, and damn right you're going to read that passage out loud in voice-over.
A great voice-over can result in a great film.
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Post by Roy Batty's Pet Dove on Oct 22, 2017 0:43:55 GMT -5
Voice-over narration is not a cop-out, a crutch, or a stain on a film's value when it's done right, any more than a music score, a close-up, or an acrobatic one-take camera movement is. Not liking voice-over is like not liking a song with lyrics. I just saw "Brief Encounter" for the second time. It's a complete movie, with fine performances, precise dialogue, great cinematography, and an overwhelming music score (Rachmaninoff). But that voice-over narration, that's what really puts you in the leading lady's world. All the finely-calibrated guilt and pleasure, the half-hearted insults at those who interrupt intimate moments, the longing, the restraint. If an actor gives a restrained performance he or she gets accused of being wooden. The gently lisping voice-over lets us in. And what of the most acclaimed film of all, "Citizen Kane"? A hilarious voice-over which parodies newsreel announcers tells us the entire plot within the first 20 minutes. It's a lark and a laugh, and it allows the rest of the film to bend time to its will. (See "Goodfellas" for a similar usage.) And what if you're John Huston and you're adapting one of the great literary works of the English language, "The Dead"? Our protagonist looks out the window and sees snow falling on everything. Damn right he's going to think, and damn right you're going to read that passage out loud in voice-over. A great voice-over can result in a great film. Can people reading newspapers with headlines that absurdly specific in ways that are relevant to the plot still result in a great film in the year 2017 C.E., though?
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Post by MarkInTexas on Oct 23, 2017 13:20:18 GMT -5
Voice-over narration is not a cop-out, a crutch, or a stain on a film's value when it's done right, any more than a music score, a close-up, or an acrobatic one-take camera movement is. Not liking voice-over is like not liking a song with lyrics. I just saw "Brief Encounter" for the second time. It's a complete movie, with fine performances, precise dialogue, great cinematography, and an overwhelming music score (Rachmaninoff). But that voice-over narration, that's what really puts you in the leading lady's world. All the finely-calibrated guilt and pleasure, the half-hearted insults at those who interrupt intimate moments, the longing, the restraint. If an actor gives a restrained performance he or she gets accused of being wooden. The gently lisping voice-over lets us in. And what of the most acclaimed film of all, "Citizen Kane"? A hilarious voice-over which parodies newsreel announcers tells us the entire plot within the first 20 minutes. It's a lark and a laugh, and it allows the rest of the film to bend time to its will. (See "Goodfellas" for a similar usage.) And what if you're John Huston and you're adapting one of the great literary works of the English language, "The Dead"? Our protagonist looks out the window and sees snow falling on everything. Damn right he's going to think, and damn right you're going to read that passage out loud in voice-over. A great voice-over can result in a great film. I never understood the hate against voiceovers, myself. As you point out, many, many great films (and TV shows, for that matter) have had them. They can certainly be done poorly, of course (and can be done poorly in good movies--*cough*Blade Runner original release*cough*), but how can anyone look at a technique that has been done in such masterworks as Sunset Blvd., All About Eve, The Maltese Falcon, Double Indemnity, A Clockwork Orange, Apocalypse Now, The Big Lebowski, The Royal Tenebaums, and the aforementioned GoodFellas and Citizen Kane, and think that negatively about it?
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Post by [Citrus] on Oct 23, 2017 14:08:11 GMT -5
Voice-over narration is not a cop-out, a crutch, or a stain on a film's value when it's done right, any more than a music score, a close-up, or an acrobatic one-take camera movement is. Not liking voice-over is like not liking a song with lyrics. I just saw "Brief Encounter" for the second time. It's a complete movie, with fine performances, precise dialogue, great cinematography, and an overwhelming music score (Rachmaninoff). But that voice-over narration, that's what really puts you in the leading lady's world. All the finely-calibrated guilt and pleasure, the half-hearted insults at those who interrupt intimate moments, the longing, the restraint. If an actor gives a restrained performance he or she gets accused of being wooden. The gently lisping voice-over lets us in. And what of the most acclaimed film of all, "Citizen Kane"? A hilarious voice-over which parodies newsreel announcers tells us the entire plot within the first 20 minutes. It's a lark and a laugh, and it allows the rest of the film to bend time to its will. (See "Goodfellas" for a similar usage.) And what if you're John Huston and you're adapting one of the great literary works of the English language, "The Dead"? Our protagonist looks out the window and sees snow falling on everything. Damn right he's going to think, and damn right you're going to read that passage out loud in voice-over. A great voice-over can result in a great film. I never understood the hate against voiceovers, myself. As you point out, many, many great films (and TV shows, for that matter) have had them. They can certainly be done poorly, of course (and can be done poorly in good movies--*cough*Blade Runner original release*cough*), but how can anyone look at a technique that has been done in such masterworks as Sunset Blvd., All About Eve, The Maltese Falcon, Double Indemnity, A Clockwork Orange, Apocalypse Now, The Big Lebowski, The Royal Tenebaums, and the aforementioned GoodFellas and Citizen Kane, and think that negatively about it? I think it stems from one of those "screenwriting gurus" who cropped up a few decades ago. They were made fun of in Adaptation.
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Post by Lone Locust of the Apocalypse on Oct 24, 2017 3:00:50 GMT -5
Not that Narcos is a masterpiece or anything, but it is annoying how the AVClub reviewer keeps complaining about the narration three seasons in.
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Post by chalkdevil's night ๐ on Oct 24, 2017 12:50:09 GMT -5
Dick Tracy is absolutely the best '90s comic book movie and might actually be the best one full-stop. I cannot condone this. I mean in the 90s alone, Batman Returns exists. Plus, Men In Black, Mystery Men are based on comics. Shit, the goddamned Rocketeer. That starred peak Jennifer Connelly and Billy Campbell's floppy hair! Plus, I think you may have just outed yourself as Warren Beatty. Nice try, Warren. No grassroots critical re-examination for you.
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