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Post by The Thanksgiving Goblin. on Dec 27, 2017 17:01:44 GMT -5
I didn't hate it, but it did feel a little odd for a middle-of-the-trilogy final scene. Of course, a lot of how Last Jedi ended felt odd for a middle entry. I think whoever said they are anticipating a much bigger time jump to the next movie is correct. is definitely correct to predict that there's gonna be a big time jump. They have to account for Carrie's passing, after all. My own prediction is that this is no longer part 2 of 3 but part 2 of 6. probably more like 2 of 4, I think elements of the rian Johnson trilogy will be incorporated into the first order wars |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 17:18:59 GMT -5
Also, I appear to be alone in really liking the end scene with the stable kid playing with his Star Wars action figures and swinging his broom handle lightsaber around. That was the dumbest scene in the entire movie |
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Dec 27, 2017 17:28:42 GMT -5
Do you think the talk of the Rian Johnson helmed trilogy being it's own separate thing is just a misdirect then? I do, yeah. Let me be clear, Last Jedi might actually be my favorite Star War of all time, but Disney corporate is being oddly skittish and conservative about this series, with the revolving director's chairs and focus-groupped reshoots, and I really think they're going to end up Marvelizing Star Wars. I think the talk about giving Johnson his own whole "trilogy" was meant as a pre-release confidence booster more than anything else. I fear they're going to look at the post-opening weekend stubs for Last Jedi compared to Force Awakens, decide that telling new stories doesn't pay as well as rehashing old ones, and pay Abrams to build them a Star Wars Cinematic Universe. Man, that would really be a shame. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 17:28:58 GMT -5
Also, I appear to be alone in really liking the end scene with the stable kid playing with his Star Wars action figures and swinging his broom handle lightsaber around. That was the dumbest scene in the entire movie Space Leia was way dumber |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 17:38:01 GMT -5
Star Wars doesn't need a cinematic universe. The expanded universe was fun, but part of what made it fun is that because it was in a different media there was a vast amount of variety of what could be done. That is also why a lot of it is crap though.
Star Wars the movies should be focused on just the main stuff. With the original trilogy being the middle, having prequel and sequel trilogies make sense, but that should really be it. That seems like a very natural progression at least. The big problem that happened though is when Force Awakens came out it was more of a soft reboot than a full on sequel. It was a reset button that was pushed, instead of a natural progression into what came after. Which is why I love Last Jedi so much, because it cleared the table and is actually attempting something different, and pulled it off imo. I really hope disney doesn't marvelize Star Wars, it doesn't need it.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Dec 27, 2017 17:45:14 GMT -5
Star Wars doesn't need a cinematic universe. The expanded universe was fun, but part of what made it fun is that because it was in a different media there was a vast amount of variety of what could be done. That is also why a lot of it is crap though. Star Wars the movies should be focused on just the main stuff. With the original trilogy being the middle, having prequel and sequel trilogies make sense, but that should really be it. That seems like a very natural progression at least. The big problem that happened though is when Force Awakens came out it was more of a soft reboot than a full on sequel. It was a reset button that was pushed, instead of a natural progression into what came after. Which is why I love Last Jedi so much, because it cleared the table and is actually attempting something different, and pulled it off imo. I really hope disney doesn't marvelize Star Wars, it doesn't need it. Yea. Force Awakens, or something like it, was probably necessary because of the 30 year gap after ROTJ. But it really had too much heavy lifting to do with both establishing new characters and accounting for a good chunk of the old ones to do anything interesting. If Disney/Lucasfilm came out tomorrow and said "we're going to essentially treat TFA as episode 6.5 and Last Jedi as the beginning of the new trilogy" who would complain? |
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Post by sarapen on Dec 27, 2017 19:30:42 GMT -5
Ha! Tonight when I saw it, some guy said " damn" real quietly in a very small voice in that silence. Everyone laughed and afterward, he said "oops" in a small voice. The theatre noise during my viewing of the scene was a kid saying he needed to go to the bathroom. The scene was so awesome that he wet himself. Anyway, I liked the movie. You all said what I wanted to say, so let's skip the accolades and get to the nerdish hermeneutical analysis of the text. Point the First: Is this the first time, in canon and in EU, that we've seen paper in Star Wars? I feel like it is, though in the Clone Wars CGI cartoon they were essentially treating holographic texts like paper (storing them in physical libraries, handing them to each other instead of cc'ing them on the email, etc). Point 2: I liked that we thought we got another Han Solo but nope, sometimes criminals actually are untrustworthy partners. Point 3: Those guys in the red Klan costumes were Senate guards in the Republic originally, right? So it makes sense that Palpatine would have them since the Empire was the successor state to the Republic. But why would Snoke have them if the New Order was a new and separate thing from the Empire? Where did he even hire them? Or maybe he specifically reconstituted them as a deliberate hipster throwback to the Empire? Point 4: What happened to the (New) Republic? Sure, their capital planet got blown up but you'd think some of their surviving military would be down for revenge. Maybe the Republic had shaky foundations and the second Coruscant blew up it was every man for himself? Point 5: Was projecting a ghost of yourself but with tactile sensations ever mentioned as a Force Power? I'm not criticizing - I liked that scene. I'm just genuinely asking whether this is something original to this film. |
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Post by Nudeviking on Dec 27, 2017 19:51:49 GMT -5
The theatre noise during my viewing of the scene was a kid saying he needed to go to the bathroom. The scene was so awesome that he wet himself. Anyway, I liked the movie. You all said what I wanted to say, so let's skip the accolades and get to the nerdish hermeneutical analysis of the text. Point the First: Is this the first time, in canon and in EU, that we've seen paper in Star Wars? I feel like it is, though in the Clone Wars CGI cartoon they were essentially treating holographic texts like paper (storing them in physical libraries, handing them to each other instead of cc'ing them on the email, etc). Point 2: I liked that we thought we got another Han Solo but nope, sometimes criminals actually are untrustworthy partners. Point 3: Those guys in the red Klan costumes were Senate guards in the Republic originally, right? So it makes sense that Palpatine would have them since the Empire was the successor state to the Republic. But why would Snoke have them if the New Order was a new and separate thing from the Empire? Where did he even hire them? Or maybe he specifically reconstituted them as a deliberate hipster throwback to the Empire? Point 4: What happened to the (New) Republic? Sure, their capital planet got blown up but you'd think some of their surviving military would be down for revenge. Maybe the Republic had shaky foundations and the second Coruscant blew up it was every man for himself? Point 5: Was projecting a ghost of yourself but with tactile sensations ever mentioned as a Force Power? I'm not criticizing - I liked that scene. I'm just genuinely asking whether this is something original to this film. I know there were occasional mention of books in some of the EU books. They were almost always treated as some rare thing and the characters that saw them were generally surprised by their existence though. As for the red Klan guys, the First Order was modelling pretty much everything else after stuff from the Empire/Republic anyway (Stormtroopers, Star Killer Bases, Tie Fighters, etc.) so it makes sense that they'd also ripoff "Red guys with melee weapons" as a concept for their big boss' personal guards. I'm assuming that the New Republic was militarily weak or something to begin with since instead of engaging in open conflict with the First Order they were going through back channels and financing the Not-Rebels in Force Awakens. If they were any sort of military power you would have expected them to just take the fight to the Space Nazis directly but they didn't. Maybe some of the nameless schlubs that got their shit wrecked in Last Jedi were the remnants of the New Republic miltary who joined the Not-Rebels after Coruscant blew up? I haven't really read any of the new Expanded Universe stuff which is generally where this sort of nonsense plays out. |
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Dec 27, 2017 20:18:54 GMT -5
I think Disney really did give Rian Johnson his own 'trilogy', but what was given can always be taken away, as Disney has demonstrated repeatedly with their Star Wars films, so @patbatman is right that they could pivot away from this thing any time between now and whenever the first movie gets released (i.e. Rian Johnson could be let go midway near the end of production like Lord and Miller.) Nudeviking In the EU the Republic is full-on supporting appeasement of the First Order and has demilitarized to such a vast degree that apparently what was left of the Republic Fleet was in the Hosnian system when Starkiller Base wiped that system out of existence. Leia had some Republic support but there were others sceptical of her Resistance thing. |
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Post by Desert Dweller on Dec 28, 2017 2:08:42 GMT -5
Just to be really nerdy, I want to point out that Coruscant did not blow up in TFA. That was a different planet. I only know this because I googled something like "Did TFA really blow up Corscant?!" after the movie and saw that JJ Abrams was saying it was a different planet. Which Douay-Rheims-Challoner has helpfully named above as Hosnian. So yeah, I just assume that the New Republic didn't really have a military. It seemed very strange in TFA that Leia would have to rely on an underground rebellion to fight the First Order when the New Republic was ostensibly in charge. Also, I didn't think Benecio Del Toro's character was supposed to be a new Han Solo. He seemed modelled after Lando, being introduced as a criminal who eventually sells them out to the First Order. And he knew about the evacuation via transports because he overheard Poe telling Finn about it via the comm link. The sort of Astral Projection-type usage seen in this movie seems to be a new use of the Force. I just watched Eps IV-VI yesterday and this is definitely not in those. I will not rewatch Eps I-III but I don't recall anyone using this skill during those movies. In TLJ, however, Kylo Ren seems to know it is something that *can* be done, albeit with a lot of effort. The first time he sees Rey he apparently believes she is doing this type of astral projection. He comments on this during their first real conversation through the mind link, which is the second time he "sees" her. At that point he realizes that she isn't doing this and comments something like, "No, you're not doing this. The effort would kill you." He then starts wondering why the Force is connecting their minds. Alas, he didn't realize fast enough that Luke Skywalker IS powerful enough to do this, although the effort still killed him. I thought this was a very cool use of the Force. I have no complaints since the Force is essentially treated as magic in these films anyway. |
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Post by Nudeviking on Dec 28, 2017 10:09:14 GMT -5
Also, I didn't think Benecio Del Toro's character was supposed to be a new Han Solo. He seemed modelled after Lando, being introduced as a criminal who eventually sells them out to the First Order. And he knew about the evacuation via transports because he overheard Poe telling Finn about it via the comm link. Having not seen a single preview or read any articles about the making of this movie or seeing a cast list or anything, when they talked to ALL ACTION Lady Yoda on the space phone and she was like, "Go to Casino: The Planet and meet this scoundrel I know who can do hacking or whatever," I briefly got super excited that it was going to be Lando. I was rather disappointed when it turned out to be a crumbum who was so bad at gambling that he lost his flower pin to a 1920s Guy from a Speakeasy and then got arrested for I guess scumfuckery or something. Also did Del Toro's character ever actually get named in the movie? I guess he's named DJ because I have an action figure of him and that's what it says on the package, but I'm almost certain he was never actually named in the movie, though Snaggletooth turned out to be named something else in actuality even though the action figure claimed that was his name. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 10:24:44 GMT -5
Also, I didn't think Benecio Del Toro's character was supposed to be a new Han Solo. He seemed modelled after Lando, being introduced as a criminal who eventually sells them out to the First Order. And he knew about the evacuation via transports because he overheard Poe telling Finn about it via the comm link. Having not seen a single preview or read any articles about the making of this movie or seeing a cast list or anything, when they talked to ALL ACTION Lady Yoda on the space phone and she was like, "Go to Casino: The Planet and meet this scoundrel I know who can do hacking or whatever," I briefly got super excited that it was going to be Lando. I was rather disappointed when it turned out to be a crumbum who was so bad at gambling that he lost his flower pin to a 1920s Guy from a Speakeasy and then got arrested for I guess scumfuckery or something. Also did Del Toro's character ever actually get named in the movie? I guess he's named DJ because I have an action figure of him and that's what it says on the package, but I'm almost certain he was never actually named in the movie, though Snaggletooth turned out to be named something else in actuality even though the action figure claimed that was his name. Yeah, he called himself DJ. But...I was under the impression that Speakeasy Guy With The Pin WAS their real target, but they got arrested before they could meet him, and then DJ said HE could help them instead. It was kind of unclear. |
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Dec 28, 2017 10:54:19 GMT -5
Also, I didn't think Benecio Del Toro's character was supposed to be a new Han Solo. He seemed modelled after Lando, being introduced as a criminal who eventually sells them out to the First Order. And he knew about the evacuation via transports because he overheard Poe telling Finn about it via the comm link. Having not seen a single preview or read any articles about the making of this movie or seeing a cast list or anything, when they talked to ALL ACTION Lady Yoda on the space phone and she was like, "Go to Casino: The Planet and meet this scoundrel I know who can do hacking or whatever," I briefly got super excited that it was going to be Lando. I was rather disappointed when it turned out to be a crumbum who was so bad at gambling that he lost his flower pin to a 1920s Guy from a Speakeasy and then got arrested for I guess scumfuckery or something. Also did Del Toro's character ever actually get named in the movie? I guess he's named DJ because I have an action figure of him and that's what it says on the package, but I'm almost certain he was never actually named in the movie, though Snaggletooth turned out to be named something else in actuality even though the action figure claimed that was his name. I was also initially disappointed we didn't at least get a Lando cameo, but got over it because they went in a much more interesting direction. And even a quick scene with him at the tables would have still felt too cute. |
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Post by Pedantic Editor Type on Dec 28, 2017 11:10:15 GMT -5
Having not seen a single preview or read any articles about the making of this movie or seeing a cast list or anything, when they talked to ALL ACTION Lady Yoda on the space phone and she was like, "Go to Casino: The Planet and meet this scoundrel I know who can do hacking or whatever," I briefly got super excited that it was going to be Lando. I was rather disappointed when it turned out to be a crumbum who was so bad at gambling that he lost his flower pin to a 1920s Guy from a Speakeasy and then got arrested for I guess scumfuckery or something. Also did Del Toro's character ever actually get named in the movie? I guess he's named DJ because I have an action figure of him and that's what it says on the package, but I'm almost certain he was never actually named in the movie, though Snaggletooth turned out to be named something else in actuality even though the action figure claimed that was his name. Yeah, he called himself DJ. But...I was under the impression that Speakeasy Guy With The Pin WAS their real target, but they got arrested before they could meet him, and then DJ said HE could help them instead. It was kind of unclear. Yes, I'm pretty sure DJ was not Guy With Pin, but Alternate Scoundrel Who Offered to Help. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 12:41:50 GMT -5
The real question is if DJ is still alive or not. Im hoping yes. That he got on his ship and lightspeeded the hell out of there before Holdo blew it all to shit.
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Post by Pedantic Editor Type on Dec 28, 2017 13:19:00 GMT -5
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Post by liebkartoffel on Dec 28, 2017 15:04:42 GMT -5
Yeah, judging by the information provided us by the movie, Justin Theroux was definitely supposed to be the hacker they were after. If DJ was the target all along I feel like the film would have done more to signpost that. |
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Post by chalkdevil 😈 on Dec 28, 2017 15:11:58 GMT -5
Interesting. I suppose that's probably canon then. So, then, the Master Codebreaker part was just sort of pointless. Like, it could have been simplified way down. I mean, they go after a dude with supposedly an unmatched set of skills, see him but never talk to him, randomly find another dude in jail with a similar set of skills who is willing to help them, and then does, but betrays them. Benicio still could have been the Master Codebreaker, they just meet him in jail and get arrested without seeing the unnecessary and confusing Justin Theroux cameo. It's just one of those "Force" coincidences that seem to be on purpose in these new films. |
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Dec 28, 2017 15:18:16 GMT -5
Interesting. I suppose that's probably canon then. So, then, the Master Codebreaker part was just sort of pointless. Like, it could have been simplified way down. I mean, they go after a dude with supposedly an unmatched set of skills, see him but never talk to him, randomly find another dude in jail with a similar set of skills who is willing to help them, and then does, but betrays them. Benicio still could have been the Master Codebreaker, they just meet him in jail and get arrested without seeing the unnecessary and confusing Justin Theroux cameo. It's just one of those "Force" coincidences that seem to be on purpose in these new films. I've only seen it the one time, but I wonder if it wasn't excuse for them to spend more time in the Galactic 1% Profiteers Casino setting, in order to better set up that whole subplot and theme. It does feel like maybe you could have still accomplished all that in a less roundabout way though. |
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Post by Ben Grimm on Dec 28, 2017 17:48:56 GMT -5
Interesting. I suppose that's probably canon then. So, then, the Master Codebreaker part was just sort of pointless. Like, it could have been simplified way down. I mean, they go after a dude with supposedly an unmatched set of skills, see him but never talk to him, randomly find another dude in jail with a similar set of skills who is willing to help them, and then does, but betrays them. Benicio still could have been the Master Codebreaker, they just meet him in jail and get arrested without seeing the unnecessary and confusing Justin Theroux cameo. It's just one of those "Force" coincidences that seem to be on purpose in these new films. I don't read it as "unmatched set of skills" so much as "only trustworthy person with this set of skills." |
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Dec 28, 2017 20:39:48 GMT -5
The Master Codebreaker stuff could have been simplified, but it's thematically relevant to the movie that it was not: The film is endlessly about characters trying risky, difficult plans that do not work. They're losing the pieces they desperately need to keep it together and improvising solutions that don't actually fix the problem; the story of the Resistance in Last Jedi is one of failure after failure after failure.
I think Yoda had something to say about that.
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Post by Celebith on Dec 29, 2017 13:34:23 GMT -5
Also, I didn't think Benecio Del Toro's character was supposed to be a new Han Solo. He seemed modelled after Lando, being introduced as a criminal who eventually sells them out to the First Order. And he knew about the evacuation via transports because he overheard Poe telling Finn about it via the comm link. Having not seen a single preview or read any articles about the making of this movie or seeing a cast list or anything, when they talked to ALL ACTION Lady Yoda on the space phone and she was like, "Go to Casino: The Planet and meet this scoundrel I know who can do hacking or whatever," I briefly got super excited that it was going to be Lando. I was rather disappointed when it turned out to be a crumbum I'm glad it wasn't Lando, because SW is already too connected as it is. Besides, we'll have Donglover's Lando Calrissian movie (feat. Han Solo) next year, anyway, and a cameo would just steal too much thunder. |
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Post by Celebith on Dec 29, 2017 13:39:59 GMT -5
The theatre noise during my viewing of the scene was a kid saying he needed to go to the bathroom. Point 4: What happened to the (New) Republic? Sure, their capital planet got blown up but you'd think some of their surviving military would be down for revenge. Maybe the Republic had shaky foundations and the second Coruscant blew up it was every man for himself? The First Order obviously blew up a few planets full of muslim terrorist sympathizers after their fake government failed to replace the true empire that should be running things, and everyone else decided that patriotism is better than being executed for treason. |
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Post by Lt. Broccoli on Dec 29, 2017 20:01:36 GMT -5
I finally saw it, and I'll have to read the previous 5 pages of posts, but I'm still in the "FUCK. YES." stage, which may or may not change once I have a chance to think about it some more.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Dec 29, 2017 20:59:03 GMT -5
When did Beneicio Del Toro's character name himself? I've seen the movie 4 times and the last time I was specifically paying attention to see if this character was named. I don't recall hearing him introduce himself. Though I definitely could have missed it.
Also, I think he did get away before the ship was destroyed. I was also looking for this. The ship the First Order gives him is clearly visible in frame as he is walking away. It seems to be in between where Rose and Finn are and where they eventually exit. In the subsequent shots to his character exiting, that part of the set looks to be clear. So, it seems he did manage to fly away just in time. Though, I haven't googled for this, so I don't know if Rian Johnson or Del Toro have answered this officially anywhere.
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Post by Dr. Rumak on Dec 31, 2017 11:59:39 GMT -5
So the scene that bothered me that no one has yet talked about is the one right after Kylo Ren and Rey kill Snoke's guards. Kylo Ren then immediately tries to convince Rey to ignore the attack on the resistance and to join him (to rule the galaxy, I guess?). Kylo should have known that Rey wasn't going to immediately turn on the resistance like that. He could have stopped the attack, still taken control of the First Order, and worked, over time to bring Rey over to the dark side. There's no reason he has to make it an ultimatum at that point. Even Anakin required time to be converted.
But then I've never understood why someone with as much power as a Sith lord seems to have even cares about ruling the galaxy. Personally, given the choice between being an absolute ruler and having Rey as my girlfriend, I'd go with Rey every single time. So maybe its just me.
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Post by Superb Owl 🦉 on Dec 31, 2017 12:12:37 GMT -5
So the scene that bothered me that no one has yet talked about is the one right after Kylo Ren and Rey kill Snoke's guards. Kylo Ren then immediately tries to convince Rey to ignore the attack on the resistance and to join him (to rule the galaxy, I guess?). Kylo should have known that Rey wasn't going to immediately turn on the resistance like that. He could have stopped the attack, still taken control of the First Order, and worked, over time to bring Rey over to the dark side. There's no reason he has to make it an ultimatum at that point. Even Anakin required time to be converted. But then I've never understood why someone with as much power as a Sith lord seems to have even cares about ruling the galaxy. Personally, given the choice between being an absolute ruler and having Rey as my girlfriend, I'd go with Rey every single time. So maybe its just me. See, I read it as Kylo wildly overestimating the degree to which they were on the same page. It’s a good point though. |
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Post by Dr. Rumak on Dec 31, 2017 12:37:54 GMT -5
So the scene that bothered me that no one has yet talked about is the one right after Kylo Ren and Rey kill Snoke's guards. Kylo Ren then immediately tries to convince Rey to ignore the attack on the resistance and to join him (to rule the galaxy, I guess?). Kylo should have known that Rey wasn't going to immediately turn on the resistance like that. He could have stopped the attack, still taken control of the First Order, and worked, over time to bring Rey over to the dark side. There's no reason he has to make it an ultimatum at that point. Even Anakin required time to be converted. But then I've never understood why someone with as much power as a Sith lord seems to have even cares about ruling the galaxy. Personally, given the choice between being an absolute ruler and having Rey as my girlfriend, I'd go with Rey every single time. So maybe its just me. That was his entire pitch to her though: All the old ways were stupid and dumb so why not just team up and say fuck empires and rebels and just rule the universe together as a pair of good looking young people until the Yuuzhan Vong come from beyond the Outer Rim to drop a planet on Chewbacca or whatever. I get that was his pitch. I just think he should have considered that it was going to require more time to get her to accept that. Save the rebels. Enforce a peace. Blame Snoke for the whole First Order thing. Then slowly work to convince Rey that democracy leads to someone like Trump Palpatine gaining power, and that it would be better for them to rule together. |
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Post by Generic Poster on Dec 31, 2017 15:22:03 GMT -5
I'm not so sure - Luke only really spent a few days, at most, with Kenobi, and probably weeks with Yoda. Granted, the timeframe of both films is kind of difficult to really parse out, but a lot more time seems to pass during Empire than during A New Hope. Yea, which is always my one nit to pick with Empire...how long exactly are the rest of the group trapped in that asteroid creature or hanging out in Cloud City? I have no issue with Luke being on Dagobah for weeks or even a few months. The Falcon was puttering along at sublight speed. We just didn't see all the time they spent twiddling their thumbs. |
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Post by Generic Poster on Dec 31, 2017 15:23:02 GMT -5
That was the dumbest scene in the entire movie Space Leia was way dumber I'm not sure why this scene bothers people either. We finally got to see Leia do some force stuff. |
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