Last Jedi, SPOILER Thread

Why not? I mean, eternal life as a semi-tangible ghost is believable, but being able to (briefly) survive in the vacuum of space isn't? I was fine with scene--and its implications for the Force--in principle; I just had issues with the unconvincing CGI.

The force doesn't just protect someone, and it takes out the impact of space. I think it makes the force way too powerful. Also, it just looked stupid. No problem with leia being a force user, a big problem in making space seem like no big deal and looking comical.

because then people should just fly and never use space ships like they are fucking superman. What makes the force cool is not that it is the only thing that makes people heroes or powerful. It is just an extension in a way.

that is not what i mean and you know it. Im saying that it is a bit too far in the super power way of the force. Just like the midichlorians was too far in trying to explain the force. It was leaning a bit too far into the fanstical for me with the force, the astral projection stuff did as well but that in the end isnt creating anything tangible and had luke exhaust everything to do it and the he fucking died.

Oh for fuck's sake, now I'm getting annoyed.

She was out in space for what, a minute or two? The books have made points like the Jedi using Force hibernation to go into near-stasis while in X-Wings in hyperspace for a few days. An extra minute of survival is nothing.

And you weigh NOTHING in space. It takes far less effort to "pull" yourself to a larger object than it would for someone to lift a ship, throw rocks, etc, all things hundreds of other Force users have done.

So if your idea of "superpower" means surviving for an extra 60 seconds and then nearly dying anyway, then your comic books must be REALLY boring. "Superman, able to withstand ONE GUNSHOT MORE than the average human!"

Luke's astral projection I can see more of an argument for or against it, but I loved it anyway. But Leia's little trip is a blip of a problem if anything and I really wish people would quit bitching about it.

Visually it wasn't the best. My argument was that pulling yourself back inside a ship is even LESS effort than lifting, pushing, pulling or throwing things within gravity on a planet, so it wasn't a comic-book-level superhuman feat.

I think we're all missing the real question here. Why was Leia just floating there? In the vacuum of space nothing would have slowed her down after being expelled from the bridge at great speed.

It wouldn't have been that great speed. The bridge closed off pretty quick; decompression wouldn't have shot her out like a champagne cork. The effects of vacuum exposure tend to be exaggerated pretty severely.

She survived like, 30 seconds, was in a coma, and then was fucked up and hobbling around with a cane.  I don't see this as particularly more powerful than lifting up an airplane, or deflecting projectiles that move at the speed of light.

wtf is starwarz lol

Late to the party, but I'm sure you were all awaiting my thoughts breathlessly. I've only seen it once, and I'm still not entirely sure how I feel about it.

1. I am porg-neutral.

2. Not a fan of whatever-the-hell they were doing with Poe Dameron. I'm for cocky space jockeys (new band name I call it), but I thought his reaction to Space Laura Dern not telling him The Plan was idiotic for someone who, for quite some time, has been working for a quasi-military group. He can be upset and worried about Leia without being mutinous.

3. I would have liked the Casino Planet - in another movie. It really threw off the pacing, IMO, no matter how adorable Finn and Rose were together. Also did not really see the point of Benicio Del Toro.  (Also just by-the-by, there were a lot of random cameos, and that seemed very odd to me)

4. Why in the high holy hell was Leia in formal gala dress the entire time? If she's in a combat or combat-adjacent situation, she wears combat-appropriate clothing. She always has (Star Wars doesn't count; she was captured wearing a formal gown and wasn't an established military leader yet) . Holdo was also dressed like she was on her way to a black-tie affair. 
    4a. Put me down in the "did not like the Sudden Force-Using Leia" category. Not because it's outside the bounds of what we've seen The Force do, but a) because we'd never seen Leia actively use The Force before, only her Force-sensitivity (and that has been only for people very close to her), and b) it looked just terrible.

5. Yeah, y'all, gotta disagree with several of you. I don't find Kylo Ren interesting at all, and most of the time, he comes across to me like a petulant child who's sulking because he can't have his way. If Driver were playing him that way on purpose, eh, okay, but it doesn't feel like he is, and honestly, I just don't find him to be an interesting actor.  I'm not getting "conflicted" so much as I'm getting "BUT I WANT IT!!!!", with a side order of dangerously unbalanced (no pun intended).  Sure, you can read it as some MRA-critical thing, but that also doesn't really ring true for me. Leaning hard into "unbalanced" would be ever so much more interesting.

6. I do think that if anyone should know Luke Skywalker, it IS Mark Hamill, BUT - yeah I do agree that I can see him going flat-out hermitsville and turning into a total self-recriminating burnout. I didn't care for some of the specific manifestations of his burn-out-ery, but the sadness beard and the crochety old guy worked for me.

7. It definitely could have used more Finn, IMO, because I love that little cinnamon roll, and cranky Rey is one of my favourite things.  Although it was super-obvious, I do like how she was wearing varying shades of grey there for a while, instead of desert-colours.  I don't know if I really have any feelings about her parents being "nobody", but I would not be surprised if Ren was screwing with her. However, whichever it is, I'm pretty sure Johnson had to clear his script with a number of people, not the least of whom would be Kathleen Kennedy, so it's not like he jacked up anything by doing it.

  

Regarding point #3: I think what bothered me about it was how leisurely paced Finn and Rose’s approach felt given that all their comrades were mere hours from death.

I also love Chirrut and Baze and Rogue One in general. Prior to Last Jedi it was my favorite (of 2!) Disney Star Wars movies, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm fine with him being a Force-user who wasn't a Jedi because that too would still kind of bolster the "anyone can use the Force" thing that Disney seems to be going for here. Prior to him no one outside of Jedis or Sith(s) was ever shown using the Force and it still represents a change in the way that the Force and its use is being portrayed. Prior to him and to a greater extent the kid at the end of Last Jedi we'd never seen anyone other than Jedis or Sith using or training to use the Force. I suppose that Chirrut's monastery could very well have been Jedi-adjacent and thus he may have received some sort of Force training even if he and the other monks did not realize that was what it actually was, but even if that is the case the kid at the end grabbing the broom is spontaneous development of Force powers a la the X-Men.

I'd never considered that it could have been Kylo Ren. The way it was shot made it seem like Leia was doing it herself, but if they walk that back later and have Kylo claim that he did it in a moment or weakness or something I'd be totally fine with it as well since, like you said, it would have played into his conflicted teen storyline just fine.

And one nitpicky thing, there were Jedi still alive during the time between Episodes III and IV, though they were primarily in hiding and not doing much instruction or training of new charges, so your point still stands that there would be people out there capable of using the Force without being Jedi. 

You can use the Force without being a Jedi, just like you can kick people without knowing Savate.