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Post by Nudeviking on Apr 20, 2023 23:26:10 GMT -5
Actually touches on another thing I've wondered about since the new movie announcements: to what extent are they going to keep leaning HARD into the full MCU integration model or have they started to realize that eventually that becomes a massive turn-off for people? I, for one, kind of hate it. I'm currently watching the Clone Wars cartoon because of that sort of MCU style integration of pre-existing lore into The Mandalorian and not really enjoying it all that much but it seems like it's the only way to possibly have a hope of understanding that show going forward as those random-ass cartoons for children seem like they're going to be the linchpin in understanding everything Star Wars going forward. Like it's one thing when there's a random Easter egg tossed in for fans of Clone Wars or some random Star Wars video game where it doesn't really have any bearing on the actual storyline ("Oh it's the ship from Rebels in Rogue One!" type nonsense) but now they're expecting me to have watched 11 seasons of cartoons for children and it kind of sucks.
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Post by WKRP Jimmy Drop on Apr 21, 2023 1:55:29 GMT -5
MOUSE DROID GANG ATTACK *glee* look I just really love mouse droids ok
And I think I said this in the beginning, but I just. do not give one single fuck about Mandalore or Mandalorians as a people, so this season has been profoundly meh for me. Yes it’s a bummer the planet got burned out, but we’ve not spent enough time with any of them for me to really get a grip on them as individuals*, the helmet thing removes any impression you’d normally gain from facial expressions from supporting characters, and none of them have any personality beyond “gonna stand here and look stoic in my armor/be hostile”(also the no helmet-removing-thing-ever for an entire culture is just dumb af. I could get behind “no removing around non-Mandalorians”, but it’s just so…fundamentalistly cultish and creepy. Not cool and mysterious”. )**
Also having not watched the animated stuff, I don’t find Bo-Katan compelling in the slightest. However, I really, really dislike the “ I should have X artifact/rule Y civilization/be treated like Z bc ROYALTY” trope in any media; I don’t know if I’m too American or just too me but yeah nah no none of this right of kings bullshit for me. Anyone acting as if they’re owed loyalty simply because of their family line is automatically on my bad side.***
BUT it looks like we’re going back to the Lone Wolf & Cub angle, which is very much what I was here for in the first place, so yay!
*except the Armorer; she’s awesome, but we’ve also spent a LOT more time with her. Actual character development works, who knew? ** I don’t know of any real-life parallel; anyone? *** lookin at you, Danerys Targaryen. And to a much lesser extent, you also Aragorn son of Arathorn.
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Post by Nudeviking on Apr 21, 2023 2:22:48 GMT -5
MOUSE DROID GANG ATTACK *glee* look I just really love mouse droids ok And I think I said this in the beginning, but I just. do not give one single fuck about Mandalore or Mandalorians as a people, so this season has been profoundly meh for me. Yes it’s a bummer the planet got burned out, but we’ve not spent enough time with any of them for me to really get a grip on them as individuals*, the helmet thing removes any impression you’d normally gain from facial expressions from supporting characters, and none of them have any personality beyond “gonna stand here and look stoic in my armor/be hostile”(also the no helmet-removing-thing-ever for an entire culture is just dumb af. I could get behind “no removing around non-Mandalorians”, but it’s just so…fundamentalistly cultish and creepy. Not cool and mysterious”. )** Also having not watched the animated stuff, I don’t find Bo-Katan compelling in the slightest. However, I really, really dislike the “ I should have X artifact/rule Y civilization/be treated like Z bc ROYALTY” trope in any media; I don’t know if I’m too American or just too me but yeah nah no none of this right of kings bullshit for me. Anyone acting as if they’re owed loyalty simply because of their family line is automatically on my bad side.*** BUT it looks like we’re going back to the Lone Wolf & Cub angle, which is very much what I was here for in the first place, so yay! *except the Armorer; she’s awesome, but we’ve also spent a LOT more time with her. Actual character development works, who knew? ** I don’t know of any real-life parallel; anyone? *** lookin at you, Danerys Targaryen. And to a much lesser extent, you also Aragorn son of Arathorn. Wait her name is Bo-Katan? I've thought her name was Boka Tan this entire time.
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Post by sarapen on Apr 21, 2023 8:09:35 GMT -5
MOUSE DROID GANG ATTACK *glee* look I just really love mouse droids ok And I think I said this in the beginning, but I just. do not give one single fuck about Mandalore or Mandalorians as a people, so this season has been profoundly meh for me. Yes it’s a bummer the planet got burned out, but we’ve not spent enough time with any of them for me to really get a grip on them as individuals*, the helmet thing removes any impression you’d normally gain from facial expressions from supporting characters, and none of them have any personality beyond “gonna stand here and look stoic in my armor/be hostile”(also the no helmet-removing-thing-ever for an entire culture is just dumb af. I could get behind “no removing around non-Mandalorians”, but it’s just so…fundamentalistly cultish and creepy. Not cool and mysterious”. )** Also having not watched the animated stuff, I don’t find Bo-Katan compelling in the slightest. However, I really, really dislike the “ I should have X artifact/rule Y civilization/be treated like Z bc ROYALTY” trope in any media; I don’t know if I’m too American or just too me but yeah nah no none of this right of kings bullshit for me. Anyone acting as if they’re owed loyalty simply because of their family line is automatically on my bad side.*** BUT it looks like we’re going back to the Lone Wolf & Cub angle, which is very much what I was here for in the first place, so yay! *except the Armorer; she’s awesome, but we’ve also spent a LOT more time with her. Actual character development works, who knew? ** I don’t know of any real-life parallel; anyone? *** lookin at you, Danerys Targaryen. And to a much lesser extent, you also Aragorn son of Arathorn. I think the thing about fundamentalists not showing their faces to others is based on the burqa and niqab, except in real life Muslim women take them off when around family. And yeah, Mandalorians are under ninja rules - when there's one Mandalorian they're cool, when there are a lot of Mandalorians they're kind of meh. This season is the equivalent of me as a kid lining up all my toys to fight each other in a big battle while making laser and jetpack noises with my mouth, complete with not having any compelling backstory but just doing it because it looks kind of neat. And just like back then I also got kind of bored with the spectacle pretty quickly.
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Post by WKRP Jimmy Drop on Apr 21, 2023 12:03:21 GMT -5
MOUSE DROID GANG ATTACK *glee* look I just really love mouse droids ok And I think I said this in the beginning, but I just. do not give one single fuck about Mandalore or Mandalorians as a people, so this season has been profoundly meh for me. Yes it’s a bummer the planet got burned out, but we’ve not spent enough time with any of them for me to really get a grip on them as individuals*, the helmet thing removes any impression you’d normally gain from facial expressions from supporting characters, and none of them have any personality beyond “gonna stand here and look stoic in my armor/be hostile”(also the no helmet-removing-thing-ever for an entire culture is just dumb af. I could get behind “no removing around non-Mandalorians”, but it’s just so…fundamentalistly cultish and creepy. Not cool and mysterious”. )** Also having not watched the animated stuff, I don’t find Bo-Katan compelling in the slightest. However, I really, really dislike the “ I should have X artifact/rule Y civilization/be treated like Z bc ROYALTY” trope in any media; I don’t know if I’m too American or just too me but yeah nah no none of this right of kings bullshit for me. Anyone acting as if they’re owed loyalty simply because of their family line is automatically on my bad side.*** BUT it looks like we’re going back to the Lone Wolf & Cub angle, which is very much what I was here for in the first place, so yay! *except the Armorer; she’s awesome, but we’ve also spent a LOT more time with her. Actual character development works, who knew? ** I don’t know of any real-life parallel; anyone? *** lookin at you, Danerys Targaryen. And to a much lesser extent, you also Aragorn son of Arathorn. I think the thing about fundamentalists not showing their faces to others is based on the burqa and niqab, except in real life Muslim women take them off when around family. And yeah, Mandalorians are under ninja rules - when there's one Mandalorian they're cool, when there are a lot of Mandalorians they're kind of meh. This season is the equivalent of me as a kid lining up all my toys to fight each other in a big battle while making laser and jetpack noises with my mouth, complete with not having any compelling backstory but just doing it because it looks kind of neat. And just like back then I also got kind of bored with the spectacle pretty quickly. Yes EXACTLY. That’s precisely the approach that sent Book of Boba Fett off the rails; there is in fact a story to be told there about him trying to change his life after being eaten alive, but nope they went with the “BOBA FETT IS SO BADASS BECAUSE HE EXISTS” 1980 vibes and then left their action figures in a pile after he left the Tuskens.
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Post by Nudeviking on Apr 24, 2023 0:43:54 GMT -5
Rankin' The Jedi That I've Seen in Clones' Wars: The TV Show For Children Thus Far1. Luminary Undooly 2. Kitt FISTO! 3. Bariss 4. Mace Windu 5. Yoder 6. Old Ben Kenobi (Young Version) 7. Plo Koon (Solely because of this George Lucas quote, "Only a diseased mind thinks Plo Koon is the best character.”) 8. Old Turtle Man Jedi That Investigates Thelma & Louise in Space w/ Asuka 9. Master Mondy (That Guy With a Really Tall Head) 10. Anakin "Skyguy" Skywalker 11. Some Lady With Dreadlocks Who Helped Anakin Save Ethan Koth 12. Jedi Librarian 13. Ethan Koth 14. Asuka "Snips" Tano I think that's all of 'em that showed up in the show up to this point.
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Post by Nudeviking on Apr 24, 2023 9:13:19 GMT -5
Rankin' The Jedi That I've Seen in Clones' Wars: The TV Show For Children Thus Far Forgot about Kit FISTO!'s Admiral Akbar padawan guy who got wrecked by General Grievous. He's the dirt worst so he's at the bottom. I also forgot about Blue French Lady Jedi. She's worse than Master Mondy but better than Sky Guy.
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Post by Nudeviking on Apr 26, 2023 10:51:11 GMT -5
Did I just watch 2 seasons of Clone Wars for nothing? I saw the season finale of The Mando Season III and it kind of seemed like they were like, "Remember how much fun Season 1 was? What if we wrapped things up in such a way that you immediately assume it's going to kind of a be a 'return to form' next season and you aren't going to have to know shit about Duchess Satine Kreeze or Gloof Glumberschmiz or whatever the fuck that Giant-Sized Manthing looking-ass pirate was named."
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matt
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Post by matt on Apr 27, 2023 1:16:00 GMT -5
Did I just watch 2 seasons of Clone Wars for nothing? I saw the season finale of The Mando Season III and it kind of seemed like they were like, "Remember how much fun Season 1 was? What if we wrapped things up in such a way that you immediately assume it's going to kind of a be a 'return to form' next season and you aren't going to have to know shit about Duchess Satine Kreeze or Gloof Glumberschmiz or whatever the fuck that Giant-Sized Manthing looking-ass pirate was named." They are supposedly going to tie everything together into a movie down the line, which includes the Ahsoka series, which of course piggybacks off clone wars, but also rebels! You could always just watch only the mandalorian, extra context be damned. If the show actually does need you to sit through so much other shit, it has failed as it's own story, period.
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Post by Nudeviking on Apr 27, 2023 1:43:47 GMT -5
Did I just watch 2 seasons of Clone Wars for nothing? I saw the season finale of The Mando Season III and it kind of seemed like they were like, "Remember how much fun Season 1 was? What if we wrapped things up in such a way that you immediately assume it's going to kind of a be a 'return to form' next season and you aren't going to have to know shit about Duchess Satine Kreeze or Gloof Glumberschmiz or whatever the fuck that Giant-Sized Manthing looking-ass pirate was named." They are supposedly going to tie everything together into a movie down the line, which includes the Ahsoka series, which of course piggybacks off clone wars, but also rebels! You could always just watch only the mandalorian, extra context be damned. If the show actually does need you to sit through so much other shit, it has failed as it's own story, period. By my estimation it kind of failed as it's own story this past season. This most recent season was a lot of bullshit that would have made more sense if I’d watched Clone Wars and so I began watching that show but Mando’s season finale seemingly reeled that shit in.
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Post by Nudeviking on May 15, 2023 23:37:45 GMT -5
I just saw the single dumbest episode of that there Clone Wars cartoon. Space Ancient Egyptians were smuggling tainted Monster Energy Drink to Pacifistic Mandalore resulting in a shootout in a warehouse on the docks between smugglers, a queen, and a sitting senator. Also every other word in the dialogue was "corruption."
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matt
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Post by matt on May 16, 2023 12:33:57 GMT -5
I just saw the single dumbest episode of that there Clone Wars cartoon. Space Ancient Egyptians were smuggling tainted Monster Energy Drink to Pacifistic Mandalore resulting in a shootout in a warehouse on the docks between smugglers, a queen, and a sitting senator. Also every other word in the dialogue was "corruption." I do think Clone Wars is actually the best thing in the star wars franchise, but anything to do with Mandalore just sucks. Honestly, anything mandalore related in all of Star Wars kinda sucks if it isn't Jango Fett.
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Post by Nudeviking on Jun 18, 2023 23:57:45 GMT -5
Four seasons in, one of the things I kind of dig about the Clone Wars cartoon is that the central theme of the show seems to be that the Republic was fucked and probably needed to stop existing. I think back in Season 2 (maybe 3) Boba Fett, who is a literal child at this point, did terrorism while trying to murder Mace Windu to avenge his father's death. He gets caught at the end of that arc and hauled off somewhere. Fast forward to the end of season 4 and Obi Wan Kenobi is doing Face/Off and going undercover in prison where he ends up getting into a fist fight with literal child Boba Fett who's just wandering around in gen pop. How in the fuck are we supposed to see that and think anything other than "Man the Republic's real fucked up."
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Post by nowimnothing on Jun 19, 2023 14:47:30 GMT -5
Maybe we have discussed this before, but the whole Jedi order is messed up. It is not like Palps was all that ingenious, his plans were very transparent. The Jedi were too inflexible and set in their ways. They failed to listen to Qui-Gon. They bungled all their interactions with Anakin. They ignored the politics until it was too late. They supported the war. Obi-Wan turned a blind eye to Anakin's relationships with Padme and Palpatine. Yoda failed to kill Palpatine.
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Jun 19, 2023 16:08:59 GMT -5
nowimnothing I feel like that’s a strong undercurrent in Andor too—the intelligence bureaucracy definitely seems a bit too mature considering the age of the empire. There was clearly a lot wrong in the Republic before (this is in the text of The Phantom Menace, too, right, with Emperor [edit: lol Prime Minister] Terence Stamp?), the Clone Wars gave it an environment to fester, and then the Empire really let it thrive.
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Post by Nudeviking on Jun 23, 2023 2:56:35 GMT -5
I'm well past the halfway point of Clone Wars now and while I still think it's kind of a mixed bag there is one thing it has done that I think is great. In Revenge of the Sith there's that one scene where a paranoid Anakin starts bellowing at Padme for Obi Wan visiting her while he wasn't there. I've always thought the "You fuckin' Obi Wan?!" vibe present in that scene is just so out of left field not in a way that really breaks the movie or anything. Anakin is, after all, kind of paranoid and losing touch with reality by that point but having now watched 70% of Clone Wars that scene has been contextualized and Anakin's fears seem a lot less unreasonable.
"Why?" you ask.
Because Obi-Wan Kenobi's defining character trait in the Clone Wars TV show for children is that he is extremely horny and flirts with every goddamn woman he encounters. Duchesses. Sith Assassins. Female presenting droids. Cartoon Young Old Ben does not give a shit! He will put mack moves on them. Anakin has seen this behavior from him and is completely right to be worried that his teacher/buddy might be trying to get in his wife's cultural appropriating geisha attire.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jun 23, 2023 22:28:58 GMT -5
I'm frankly still not sure why Padme goes for whiny Anakin when Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan is right there! It's Ewan McGregor!
But yeah, it is too bad the actual film didn't have anything to support that scene. And also, why were we denied seeing Ewan McGregor flirt with all the alien ladies?
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Jun 24, 2023 21:42:53 GMT -5
There’s a theory that the Jedi were generally dtf, just as long as they weren’t too blatant about it. Anakin’s tragedy is not his susceptibility to attachments, it’s that his yokel brain couldn’t register the nuances of actual Jedi behavior even though Obi-Wan was right out there showing him how it was done.
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Post by Nudeviking on Jun 25, 2023 19:13:40 GMT -5
There’s a theory that the Jedi were generally dtf, just as long as they weren’t too blatant about it. Anakin’s tragedy is not his susceptibility to attachments, it’s that his yokel brain couldn’t register the nuances of actual Jedi behavior even though Obi-Wan was right out there showing him how it was done. The other thing is that there doesn't seem to be keeping anyone as a Jedi beyond their own personal commitment to being a Jedi. Early on in that there Clone Wars cartoon show we are introduced to the Duchess of Mandalore and learn that prior to Phantom Menace Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon Jin spent like a year protecting her from assassins and she and Obi-Wan kind of had a thing during that time but Obi-Wan fucked off to do Jedi shit at the end of the year. Back in the present she more or less tells him that she loved him then and Obi-Wan says that he would have left the Jedi order if he'd known and stayed with her. Between that line of dialogue and Dooku's whole deal the way it's presented it really seems like Jedi can leave whenever they want.
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Rainbow Rosa
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Post by Rainbow Rosa on Jun 25, 2023 19:31:22 GMT -5
Do we need a Star Wars fuck count thread?
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Post by nowimnothing on Jun 27, 2023 14:07:39 GMT -5
Do we need a Star Wars fuck count thread? Watto was definitely getting busy with Shmi. You cannot deny the step-dad energy directed toward Anakin. He lets the kid build a dirt bike and do other personal projects in his shop He enters the kid in dirt bike competitions against the mother's wishes He lets the kid skip out before the end of his shifts Ultimately he agrees to send the kid off to boarding school so he can have more alone time with mom
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Post by nowimnothing on Jul 9, 2023 20:28:01 GMT -5
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Post by Nudeviking on Jul 12, 2023 1:59:46 GMT -5
Star Wars dot com is wild for including this in the show notes for the Season 5 finale. Barriss' rebuke?
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Post by Nudeviking on Jul 30, 2023 18:55:25 GMT -5
I finished Clone Wars. Overall it was a pretty mixed bag but the end of Season 5 through Season 7 was by and large pretty good where a bad episode was a rarity not the norm and they absolutely nailed the landing. I'd legit put the last two episodes of Clone Wars up near the top of all the Star Wars shit I've watch. So good was it that it kind of made me want to rewatch Episode III. I didn't though. Instead I just started watching Rebels.
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Post by Nudeviking on Jul 31, 2023 23:41:07 GMT -5
Rebels is from the jump a much better viewing experience than Clone Wars was. I don't know if it's because I'm now bought in on the Filoni-Verse or if it's because it follows along with a smaller cast of characters from episode to episode instead of being kind of an anthology show that jumps between hundreds of different characters which makes it easier to care about the characters or because the entire thing just reminds me of playing that West End Games Star Wars TTRPG that I played the shit out of in the 90s but it kind of rules.
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ABz B👹anaz
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Post by ABz B👹anaz on Aug 1, 2023 0:57:57 GMT -5
Rebels is from the jump a much better viewing experience than Clone Wars was. I don't know if it's because I'm now bought in on the Filoni-Verse or if it's because it follows along with a smaller cast of characters from episode to episode instead of being kind of an anthology show that jumps between hundreds of different characters which makes it easier to care about the characters or because the entire thing just reminds me of playing that West End Games Star Wars TTRPG that I played the shit out of in the 90s but it kind of rules. This is exactly what my friend said to recommend Rebels to me: "This is exactly like watching a West End Games Star Wars campaign!*" I love that show, and am SO excited for the Ahsoka series coming in a few weeks. *This becomes even more true in one particular episode where the plot came DIRECTLY from the game, and I was so fricking excited to see it.
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Post by Nudeviking on Aug 1, 2023 2:22:23 GMT -5
Rebels is from the jump a much better viewing experience than Clone Wars was. I don't know if it's because I'm now bought in on the Filoni-Verse or if it's because it follows along with a smaller cast of characters from episode to episode instead of being kind of an anthology show that jumps between hundreds of different characters which makes it easier to care about the characters or because the entire thing just reminds me of playing that West End Games Star Wars TTRPG that I played the shit out of in the 90s but it kind of rules. This is exactly what my friend said to recommend Rebels to me: "This is exactly like watching a West End Games Star Wars campaign!*" I love that show, and am SO excited for the Ahsoka series coming in a few weeks. *This becomes even more true in one particular episode where the plot came DIRECTLY from the game, and I was so fricking excited to see it. I honestly started watching all these cartoons begrudgingly because it seemed like I needed to have a base level knowledge of them if I want to go forward with the live action Star Wars stuff and over a 100+ episodes later I'm honestly kind of stoked for that Ahsoka show too, though I think I should probably finish Rebels before I get around to watching that one. As for the episode based on you know which episode it is? Will it be immediately obvious?
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Post by Ben Grimm on Aug 1, 2023 5:25:19 GMT -5
Rebels is from the jump a much better viewing experience than Clone Wars was. I don't know if it's because I'm now bought in on the Filoni-Verse or if it's because it follows along with a smaller cast of characters from episode to episode instead of being kind of an anthology show that jumps between hundreds of different characters which makes it easier to care about the characters or because the entire thing just reminds me of playing that West End Games Star Wars TTRPG that I played the shit out of in the 90s but it kind of rules. Agreed. Clone Wars had a ton of filler (and even worse, Jar-Jar episodes) and really only was engaging to me when it focused on Ahsoka and Rex, once they became the real stars of the show. Rebels always felt more focused and coherent to me. Rebels also benefitted from the major plot points not happening in a movie that came out before the series started.
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ABz B👹anaz
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Post by ABz B👹anaz on Aug 1, 2023 8:42:40 GMT -5
This is exactly what my friend said to recommend Rebels to me: "This is exactly like watching a West End Games Star Wars campaign!*" I love that show, and am SO excited for the Ahsoka series coming in a few weeks. *This becomes even more true in one particular episode where the plot came DIRECTLY from the game, and I was so fricking excited to see it. I honestly started watching all these cartoons begrudgingly because it seemed like I needed to have a base level knowledge of them if I want to go forward with the live action Star Wars stuff and over a 100+ episodes later I'm honestly kind of stoked for that Ahsoka show too, though I think I should probably finish Rebels before I get around to watching that one. As for the episode based on you know which episode it is? Will it be immediately obvious? Probably not, honestly, I recognized it right away because I'd actually run that adventure for my group, or at the very least planned to do so, so I recognized the mission right away. Probably not a big spoiler to say it was this one: Strike Force: Shantipole
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Post by Jean-Luc Lemur on Aug 1, 2023 15:46:54 GMT -5
Clone Wars had a ton of filler (and even worse, Jar-Jar episodes) and really only was engaging to me when it focused on Ahsoka and Rex, once they became the real stars of the show. Rebels always felt more focused and coherent to me. Rebels also benefitted from the major plot points not happening in a movie that came out before the series started. I think the show started when I was in college but I know my little (then high school-aged) sister gave the early bit a try, though maybe out of obligation since she wanted a lay of the land if she was going to study animation (she ultimately didn’t). From what I saw it was incredibly dumb, but it’s some point I ended up seeing the one with the clones dealing with the big, six-armed evil Jedi general and was legitimately impressed by how seriously they took the contours of their world and made a compelling story out of it—clone armies and prescience can be silly in live-action Star Wars but this was legit involving. I never checked out more of the show but the degree to which they were able to individuate and get drama from the clones was impressive.
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