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Post by Nudeviking on May 19, 2014 19:27:17 GMT -5
Nudeviking There is one thing I really want out of the Brienne and Pdorick road trip and it is that Septon they meet. Me too. That and meeting, "Maybe The Hound?" in that village. I was also looking forward to Brianne of Tarth and Pod "Tripod" Payne vs. Rorge and Biter for the Westeros Championship Wrestling tag team titles, but Arya and The Hound already took care of that last night...
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on May 20, 2014 1:56:37 GMT -5
Nudeviking Maybe the Hound would be nice but for obvious reasons there would be no maybe about it.
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Post by Nudeviking on May 20, 2014 3:56:19 GMT -5
Nudeviking Maybe the Hound would be nice but for obvious reasons there would be no maybe about it. Unless they went the same route they've gone with Yes the Hound's brother and just cast another dude. Pass him off as Maybe the Hound for however the long he might be Maybe the Hound and then after some time either declare Yes...the Hound, or No...Some other Guy!
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on May 20, 2014 4:57:27 GMT -5
Nudeviking But then everyone would be sure it wasn't the same guy, even if it was! Conundrum! Basically it's going to be like Arstan Whitebeard: If they do it, the show won't prevaricate about the character's identity.
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heroboy
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Post by heroboy on May 20, 2014 11:21:50 GMT -5
Theon's probably in way worse shape, since he's like halfway done with his book five plot already, but that being said, as others have mentioned, there are a lot of new characters that pop up in books 4 and 5, so even if they slow down the plots with the established characters I think it will be alright. The thing that's making me nervous is people are talking like Brianne will encounter Zombie Mom Stark in this season, which would mean her entire Book 4/5 arch is over during a book 3 season. The Brianne/Pod buddy cop road trip was one of the best thing about A Feast and I will be sad if it gets reduced down to "Pod can't cook a rabbit, Brianne tells Pod he can't have silk panties because they are road warriors (Hawk and Animal), the road warriors meet Hot Pie, Brianne and Pod meet Zombie Mom Stark and get hanged..." I'm pretty sure that the final scene of Episode 10 will be a shot of Lady Stoneheart turning to the camera. People are assuming that Brienne has to be there for the reveal, though it doesn't necessarily have to go that way.
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heroboy
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Post by heroboy on May 20, 2014 11:23:12 GMT -5
Nudeviking Maybe the Hound would be nice but for obvious reasons there would be no maybe about it. Unless they went the same route they've gone with Yes the Hound's brother and just cast another dude. Pass him off as Maybe the Hound for however the long he might be Maybe the Hound and then after some time either declare Yes...the Hound, or No...Some other Guy! They could show him from a distance, just a big guy in a hooded cloak, shambling along doing menial labor.
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Post by Nudeviking on May 20, 2014 15:06:23 GMT -5
Theon's probably in way worse shape, since he's like halfway done with his book five plot already, but that being said, as others have mentioned, there are a lot of new characters that pop up in books 4 and 5, so even if they slow down the plots with the established characters I think it will be alright. The thing that's making me nervous is people are talking like Brianne will encounter Zombie Mom Stark in this season, which would mean her entire Book 4/5 arch is over during a book 3 season. The Brianne/Pod buddy cop road trip was one of the best thing about A Feast and I will be sad if it gets reduced down to "Pod can't cook a rabbit, Brianne tells Pod he can't have silk panties because they are road warriors (Hawk and Animal), the road warriors meet Hot Pie, Brianne and Pod meet Zombie Mom Stark and get hanged..." I'm pretty sure that the final scene of Episode 10 will be a shot of Lady Stoneheart turning to the camera. People are assuming that Brienne has to be there for the reveal, though it doesn't necessarily have to go that way. I don't know why anyone who is already aware of Lady Stoneheart being a thing would assume that Brianne is there, since that's not how it happens in the book at all. Random Freys are the vehicle through which we learn of Zombie Mom Stark, which I think still works well enough unless the show decides that they don't want Brianne to be about for like two seasons.
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Post by nowimnothing on May 20, 2014 15:21:29 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that the final scene of Episode 10 will be a shot of Lady Stoneheart turning to the camera. People are assuming that Brienne has to be there for the reveal, though it doesn't necessarily have to go that way. I don't know why anyone who is already aware of Lady Stoneheart being a thing would assume that Brianne is there, since that's not how it happens in the book at all. Random Freys are the vehicle through which we learn of Zombie Mom Stark, which I think still works well enough unless the show decides that they don't want Brianne to be about for like two seasons. I think the rationale was that Stoneheart was a bit of mystery until Brienne met her. Obviously that is harder to do in a medium where you can see the actor. That is why they did away with Selmy's subterfuge. So either you keep her hooded/hidden or don't show her at all until she meets Brienne. Revealing who she really is to some random Frey robs the latter meeting of its surprise.
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Post by Arthur Dent on May 20, 2014 16:12:40 GMT -5
I don't know why anyone who is already aware of Lady Stoneheart being a thing would assume that Brianne is there, since that's not how it happens in the book at all. Random Freys are the vehicle through which we learn of Zombie Mom Stark, which I think still works well enough unless the show decides that they don't want Brianne to be about for like two seasons. I think the rationale was that Stoneheart was a bit of mystery until Brienne met her. Obviously that is harder to do in a medium where you can see the actor. That is why they did away with Selmy's subterfuge. So either you keep her hooded/hidden or don't show her at all until she meets Brienne. Revealing who she really is to some random Frey robs the latter meeting of its surprise. Looking at the epilogue, she's described as a woman the Frey kid knows to be dead, having seen his brothers slit her throat and dump her naked body in the river. That's so explicit they might as well have said her name. Since when was there any mystery whatsoever as to who she was?
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Post by Nudeviking on May 20, 2014 18:55:56 GMT -5
I think the rationale was that Stoneheart was a bit of mystery until Brienne met her. Obviously that is harder to do in a medium where you can see the actor. That is why they did away with Selmy's subterfuge. So either you keep her hooded/hidden or don't show her at all until she meets Brienne. Revealing who she really is to some random Frey robs the latter meeting of its surprise. Looking at the epilogue, she's described as a woman the Frey kid knows to be dead, having seen his brothers slit her throat and dump her naked body in the river. That's so explicit they might as well have said her name. Since when was there any mystery whatsoever as to who she was? Especially when coupled with earlier references in the book to Mom Stark's body being dumped in the river for being a fish (Tully) there's pretty much no one else it could have been. I read the third book awhile back and even then it was pretty obvious who Lady Stoneheart was...or at least more immediately obvious than the Alchemist from A Feast for Crows.
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Post by sarapen on May 20, 2014 21:19:31 GMT -5
Looking at the epilogue, she's described as a woman the Frey kid knows to be dead, having seen his brothers slit her throat and dump her naked body in the river. That's so explicit they might as well have said her name. Since when was there any mystery whatsoever as to who she was? Especially when coupled with earlier references in the book to Mom Stark's body being dumped in the river for being a fish (Tully) there's pretty much no one else it could have been. I read the third book awhile back and even then it was pretty obvious who Lady Stoneheart was...or at least more immediately obvious than the Alchemist from A Feast for Crows. Right, the Alchemist. Err, who was he again? My copy of A Feast for Crows is literally ten feet away from me right now but I'm seriously intimidated by the idea of flipping through a book the size of a concrete block. Anyway, I'm liking how much more time we get to spend with Oberyn Martell in the show. In the book he was mysterious and badass for like five minutes before getting his face punched off by The Mountain That Rides. I'm not entirely sure what sort of man the book version was, but this guy on my TV, I see where he's coming from.
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Post by Arthur Dent on May 20, 2014 21:21:23 GMT -5
Especially when coupled with earlier references in the book to Mom Stark's body being dumped in the river for being a fish (Tully) there's pretty much no one else it could have been. I read the third book awhile back and even then it was pretty obvious who Lady Stoneheart was...or at least more immediately obvious than the Alchemist from A Feast for Crows. Right, the Alchemist. Err, who was he again? My copy of A Feast for Crows is literally ten feet away from me right now but I'm seriously intimidated by the idea of flipping through a book the size of a concrete block. Anyway, I'm liking how much more time we get to spend with Oberyn Martell in the show. In the book he was mysterious and badass for like five minutes before getting his face punched off by The Mountain That Rides. I'm not entirely sure what sort of man the book version was, but this guy on my TV, I see where he's coming from. Jaqen.
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Post by sarapen on May 20, 2014 21:28:29 GMT -5
Right, the Alchemist. Err, who was he again? My copy of A Feast for Crows is literally ten feet away from me right now but I'm seriously intimidated by the idea of flipping through a book the size of a concrete block. Anyway, I'm liking how much more time we get to spend with Oberyn Martell in the show. In the book he was mysterious and badass for like five minutes before getting his face punched off by The Mountain That Rides. I'm not entirely sure what sort of man the book version was, but this guy on my TV, I see where he's coming from. Jaqen. Ohhh. Yeah, I remember the character now but I forgot that he had a nickname. Pate the pig boy's killer, right? I'm kind of bad at keeping stuff straight in this series.
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Post by Nudeviking on May 20, 2014 21:38:31 GMT -5
Ohhh. Yeah, I remember the character now but I forgot that he had a nickname. Pate the pig boy's killer, right? I'm kind of bad at keeping stuff straight in this series. Yes that's exactly who the Alchemist is/was. As for keeping stuff straight, with a book series that's something like 6 or 7,000 pages at this point, it does get a little hard to keep some of the tertiary characters straight or even remember which book certain events happen in.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2014 22:12:45 GMT -5
Arrrrroooooooooo! Oh ow my feelings! Do you think Arya will leave him for dead? It was my impression from the book that leaving him was an act of cruelty or revenge, denying him the mercy of a quick death - in the end, she still hated him. But in the show they seem to have forged a real bond. So yeah, clearly they need to leave his death a mystery, but how? Will she be unable to kill him? Or will they let her feel and express that depth of hatred?
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Post by nowimnothing on May 27, 2014 7:11:17 GMT -5
Arrrrroooooooooo! Oh ow my feelings! Do you think Arya will leave him for dead? It was my impression from the book that leaving him was an act of cruelty or revenge, denying him the mercy of a quick death - in the end, she still hated him. But in the show they seem to have forged a real bond. So yeah, clearly they need to leave his death a mystery, but how? Will she be unable to kill him? Or will they let her feel and express that depth of hatred? I think she can still leave him. She will be conflicted. On one hand, he is on her list, on the other, to kill him is to grant him forgiveness. She will want to forgive him, but I don't think she can reach that type of enlightenment just yet given her continued distrust and hate in Bravos.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2014 5:59:58 GMT -5
You're probably right. This will be the season of our favorite characters proving that they too can be cruel: Arya abandons the Hound, Tyrion strangles Shae.
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Post by ComradeQuestions on Jun 2, 2014 10:08:51 GMT -5
So the banishing of Jorah played out a little weirdly here. Barristan was on the small council in season 1, so he already knew Jorah was spying for Robert. And even, what was it, last season, there were some scenes between the two where Barristan heavily hinted that he knew about Jorah's spying and wasn't sure if he was trustworthy. So a random letter being the catalyst here felt a little like the writers realizing it didn't make sense for Barristan to just randomly turn on Jorah at this point, and had to pretend like he didn't already know and come up with another cause.
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Post by nowimnothing on Jun 2, 2014 10:36:47 GMT -5
So the banishing of Jorah played out a little weirdly here. Barristan was on the small council in season 1, so he already knew Jorah was spying for Robert. And even, what was it, last season, there were some scenes between the two where Barristan heavily hinted that he knew about Jorah's spying and wasn't sure if he was trustworthy. So a random letter being the catalyst here felt a little like the writers realizing it didn't make sense for Barristan to just randomly turn on Jorah at this point, and had to pretend like he didn't already know and come up with another cause. Actually they did address this. While Barristan was technically part of the Small Council due to his position, Robert never fully trusted him and did not invite him to most of the meetings. I think Barristan in season 3 is more distrustful of Jorah due to his slave selling history. He is not sure of his motivations. Also Jorah was spying for Varys. Robert had to know due to the pardon, but Varys liked his secrets so it is unlikely all of the small council knew exactly who the spy was. The timing and the rationale is off from the book. In the book Dany forgives him after Meereen but his attitude is not remorseful and she has to banish him or appear weak. I think this way works as well. Either way he is off to Volantis a broken man. Setting things up this way seem to indicate that he will meet up with Tyrion sooner rather than later in Season 5.
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Post by ComradeQuestions on Jun 2, 2014 10:46:46 GMT -5
While Barristan was technically part of the Small Council due to his position, Robert never fully trusted him and did not invite him to most of the meetings. Hm, but in the books he knew about Jorah via his council membership, right?
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Post by nowimnothing on Jun 2, 2014 11:31:35 GMT -5
While Barristan was technically part of the Small Council due to his position, Robert never fully trusted him and did not invite him to most of the meetings. Hm, but in the books he knew about Jorah via his council membership, right? Yes, which is why I was surprised the show writers were able to make the change and still have it work fairly well
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Post by Nudeviking on Jun 2, 2014 16:36:15 GMT -5
So the banishing of Jorah played out a little weirdly here. Barristan was on the small council in season 1, so he already knew Jorah was spying for Robert. And even, what was it, last season, there were some scenes between the two where Barristan heavily hinted that he knew about Jorah's spying and wasn't sure if he was trustworthy. So a random letter being the catalyst here felt a little like the writers realizing it didn't make sense for Barristan to just randomly turn on Jorah at this point, and had to pretend like he didn't already know and come up with another cause. I don't think that Barristan was ever around when they discussed Jorah being a spy on the small council, or at least they never named him by name in front of Ser Grandfather.
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Post by Desert Dweller on Jun 3, 2014 4:37:04 GMT -5
So, where are they sending Sweetrobin? Because.... they can't send him somewhere where the leaders are loyal to the Lannisters, right? He knows that Sansa is at the Eyrie. And he's a blabbermouth. And basically this whole sequence in the Vale kind of shocked me. In a great way! But, I really have no idea where they are going with sending this kid away.
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Post by Nudeviking on Jun 3, 2014 8:30:58 GMT -5
So, where are they sending Sweetrobin? Because.... they can't send him somewhere where the leaders are loyal to the Lannisters, right? He knows that Sansa is at the Eyrie. And he's a blabbermouth. And basically this whole sequence in the Vale kind of shocked me. In a great way! But, I really have no idea where they are going with sending this kid away. It's been awhile since I read Feast, but I think the plan is to send him to be a squire for one of the Vale lords...maybe that Royce dude.
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Post by nowimnothing on Jun 3, 2014 10:35:47 GMT -5
From the non-book thread: "Since there are two episodes left, I'm hoping that...Tyrion runs away with the circus"
I am so holding my tongue, but it is hard. I am amazed at how close some of their speculation is. Several have already guessed Jamie breaking Tyrion out.
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Post by 🐍 cahusserole 🐍 on Jun 3, 2014 10:51:35 GMT -5
I really don't think Tea knows what she just said, but Dastardly called attention to it as a spoiler. Can he go edit the post or something? I think it's going to call attention to something that I believe was innocent.
NEVER MIND IT'S ALL COOL NOW.
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Post by Douay-Rheims-Challoner on Jun 3, 2014 14:27:02 GMT -5
🐍 cahusserole 🐍 Oh alright. I looked at it and it looked like two non-book readers, one making a joke, the other pouting out it is kind of a dear specific joke, neither realising this is the actual plot. It is true sometimes people speculate too suspiciously close to the books - I have seen way too many non book readers say they deduced Lyanna Starinwas Jon's mom (how the fuck do they know who that is?) or that Olenna murdered Joffrey to be naturally suspicious but this looked innocent to me.
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heroboy
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Post by heroboy on Jun 3, 2014 15:15:51 GMT -5
How the hell could watchers deduce R+L=J based solely on the show? Did they even mention her more than once? I think this is a case where if people throw enough shit out there, some of it will stick. The Olenna bit, though, I think was telegraphed in the show.
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Post by Nudeviking on Jun 3, 2014 16:44:32 GMT -5
From the non-book thread: "Since there are two episodes left, I'm hoping that...Tyrion runs away with the circus" I am so holding my tongue, but it is hard. I am amazed at how close some of their speculation is. Several have already guessed Jamie breaking Tyrion out. Someone followed that up with, "He should escape with those dwarves who were at Joffrey's wedding." I was just like, "How could someone even guess that?" Anyway, I know a lot of people have hurt feelings about the mind blowing ending to this week's episode so here's a picture of the Red Viper and the Mountain bro-ing out at the beach.
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Post by nowimnothing on Jun 4, 2014 10:15:07 GMT -5
Again from the non-book thread they are rightly worried about Ygritte. But no talk of Tywin. They must figure he is untouchable. Oh man this will be almost as good as the RW. People will lose their shit*.
*probably not gold
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